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buck herrick
101st Space Marine Force
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:05:00 - [12451]
 

Originally by: Moolti
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:41:07




October 28th is going to be an interesting date. :)




elaborate on this?


CCP has a rather large loan (that exceed their cash on hand as of their last yearly filing) due on this date.


irrelevant i am afraid, corporations restructure finance all the time. tbh restructuring this will likely be able to save them money rather than cost them

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:08:00 - [12452]
 

Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: Moolti
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:41:07




October 28th is going to be an interesting date. :)




elaborate on this?


CCP has a rather large loan (that exceed their cash on hand as of their last yearly filing) due on this date.


irrelevant i am afraid, corporations restructure finance all the time. tbh restructuring this will likely be able to save them money rather than cost them



Yeah but debt is debt. Care to explain how you can restructure debt to cost less, you mean renegociate the terms of the loan? The bond has been issued and is maturing.

It will happen again, so they renegociate the terms of the new reissued bonds.

Holly Cleland
Special Operations Foxhound
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:09:00 - [12453]
 

Well, it's like this, if something bad happens (it won't get that far), one of their projects will be put on hold, and people will be layed off, I don't imagine CCP getting to that point but there is a serious problem of CCP biting off more than it can chew.

They've got 2 projects running concurrently with EVE, EVE is obviously suffering through lack of development, and just from looking at how little we got in Incarna is proof enough of that (yet they can hire GMs to smooth over every newbie), adding bells and whistles won't convince us there's proper development going on in the background thusly hurting your current subscribers.

This basically means (assuming what has been said is true) CCP either needs to renegotiate their loan (I imagine they won't have a problem at all) or CCP will need to secure additional revenue from other sources in order to maintain it's development, I doubt they will let any projects go on ice, there's so many solutions to a problem like this, and CCP has a solid reputation as a business and a bank or governing body would be a fool to ignore their potential in the future.

-A well thought out post
Holly "The Yellow Dart" Cleland

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:10:00 - [12454]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Yeah but debt is debt. Care to explain how you can restructure debt to cost less, you mean renegotiate the terms of the loan? The bond has been issued and is maturing.

It will happen again, so they renegotiate the terms of the new reissued bonds.


And in an environment of increasing inflation, and now some new risks to the enterprise. Rates up most likely.

Marrious
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:11:00 - [12455]
 

I'm not going to hold my breath, at this point I fully expect them not answer any of our REAL questions. They're going to answer in the most beat around the bush way possible. They're doing this to try to hush us up. But we shall see. I hope that I'm seriously mistaken.

Zuquar Bonaparte
New Dawn Corporation
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:13:00 - [12456]
 

Edited by: Zuquar Bonaparte on 28/06/2011 01:13:46
Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: Moolti
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:41:07




October 28th is going to be an interesting date. :)






elaborate on this?


CCP has a rather large loan (that exceed their cash on hand as of their last yearly filing) due on this date.


irrelevant i am afraid, corporations restructure finance all the time. tbh restructuring this will likely be able to save them money rather than cost them



being a icelandic company with a partial owner that broke icelands economy allmost single handed, then it may be very hard to refinance those loans at a affordable intrest.Wink

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:15:00 - [12457]
 

Originally by: Holly Cleland
Well, it's like this, if something bad happens (it won't get that far), one of their projects will be put on hold, and people will be layed off, I don't imagine CCP getting to that point but there is a serious problem of CCP biting off more than it can chew.

They've got 2 projects running concurrently with EVE, EVE is obviously suffering through lack of development, and just from looking at how little we got in Incarna is proof enough of that (yet they can hire GMs to smooth over every newbie), adding bells and whistles won't convince us there's proper development going on in the background thusly hurting your current subscribers.

This basically means (assuming what has been said is true) CCP either needs to renegotiate their loan (I imagine they won't have a problem at all) or CCP will need to secure additional revenue from other sources in order to maintain it's development, I doubt they will let any projects go on ice, there's so many solutions to a problem like this, and CCP has a solid reputation as a business and a bank or governing body would be a fool to ignore their potential in the future.

-A well thought out post
Holly "The Yellow Dart" Cleland



"CCP has a solid reputation"


I stopped reading right there.


Holly Cleland
Special Operations Foxhound
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:16:00 - [12458]
 

Edited by: Holly Cleland on 28/06/2011 01:22:31
Originally by: Miilla
"CCP has a solid reputation"


I stopped reading right there.


Then you should have read the part where I said as a business, not as a reliable game developer that gives solid fan service, idiot troll.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:19:00 - [12459]
 

Originally by: Holly Cleland
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Holly Cleland
Well, it's like this, if something bad happens (it won't get that far), one of their projects will be put on hold, and people will be layed off, I don't imagine CCP getting to that point but there is a serious problem of CCP biting off more than it can chew.

They've got 2 projects running concurrently with EVE, EVE is obviously suffering through lack of development, and just from looking at how little we got in Incarna is proof enough of that (yet they can hire GMs to smooth over every newbie), adding bells and whistles won't convince us there's proper development going on in the background thusly hurting your current subscribers.

This basically means (assuming what has been said is true) CCP either needs to renegotiate their loan (I imagine they won't have a problem at all) or CCP will need to secure additional revenue from other sources in order to maintain it's development, I doubt they will let any projects go on ice, there's so many solutions to a problem like this, and CCP has a solid reputation as a business and a bank or governing body would be a fool to ignore their potential in the future.

-A well thought out post
Holly "The Yellow Dart" Cleland



"CCP has a solid reputation"


I stopped reading right there.




Then you should have read the part where I said as a business, not as a reliable game developer that gives solid fan service, idiot troll.


Perhaps you missed that that ship has sailed the over the last week. No one thinks much of them anymore after all this bad press.

Stalking Mantis
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:21:00 - [12460]
 

http://www.imvu.com

-------------->> that way

Keep what makes EVE..........EVE

Holly Cleland
Special Operations Foxhound
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:22:00 - [12461]
 

Edited by: Holly Cleland on 28/06/2011 01:22:09
Originally by: RougeOperator
Perhaps you missed that that ship has sailed the over the last week. No one thinks much of them anymore after all this bad press.


Say that to Activision.

Becka Call
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:23:00 - [12462]
 

What everyone seems to be forgetting is that with the Icelandic Banking issues they don't have access to the capital markets that they previously had. Their business may be viable and a good risk for a loan. Doesn't mean there is any capital available for them to borrow.

I called the cash flow issue a couple hundred pages back in this thread. just didn't know the specifics.

Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari
River-Rats in space
The Ditanian Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:24:00 - [12463]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann

I’m here to buy time while we try to sort things out. No sense in lying about it so I'll call a spade a spade.
It’s clear that many of you are <understatement alert> angry </alert>.
As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market.
Second, many people are unhappy about the Captain’s Quarters.
Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna.
Humbly yours,
~P~



o/ Pann,
Most people would have preferred no stalling for time, and yes many are quite angry, I for one am not, but it's because it takes quite a bit to anger me, however, I am concerned as are most others that CCP is going to make changes to this that will change the way the game works at a sub-level that will incorporate an unfairness into the game for the sake of a few dollars.
Most people could really care less about the eyepiece, but everyone has stated that it's pricing goes far beyond the definition of a "micro-transaction", but that's not the "chief complaint" in this or any other thread that has been posted and have grown to an inordinate size in these forums....
you guys (CCP) have stated previously "Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design has been done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means." and in several other posts blogs, ect the statement has been made that "nothing will change" in regard to discussions on "gameplay" affecting items, yet here over the past few days with the leak of the theoretical discussions newsletter and the leak of the "wait and see" email, people are simply wanting an honest yes or no answer to the question of whether or not you (CCP) are going to go ahead and break that promise and sell items for cash that could break the current balance of gameplay.
For example, my oldest character is around 4 years old, one of my corp-mate's characters is 8 years old, if someone were to be able to create a new character, had enough money, and they were able to purchase all kinds of things that gave them an advantage over our characters in a short period of time, then what would be the point of all of those years of training and learning the game when someone could basically waltz in and buy their way to the top with real $?
In a way this can be done now, but only to an extent:
1. make account
2. buy GTC with $ and convert to plex
3. go buy a character with skillz
4. buy uber ship
5. win EVE

All of these items with the exception of the character, goes through the regular market, and benefits everyone in one form or another, but to offer non-trade-able/sell-able/manufacture-able items in RMTs goes against the very nature of the game.

In a way, your own EULA prohibits you from doing it just like it prohibits players from purchasing items in RMTs.. How many accounts have been shut down or penalized for the very same thing that you guys (CCP) are considering doing now? (or it seems as though you are)

Personally, I wouldn't care if there was a skillpoint package as long as it was structured like neural remaps, I.E. limited and can't be abused, but ships and other items (not clothing) that aren't available on the market and can never be?, nope, that's not even close to being fair.

anyway, there's a ton more that I'd like to add, but my text limit is fast approaching, so I'll close for now, but if you'd like to hear more from me and the 7 accounts I pay for, you're always welcome to ask.
Thanks Pann.
Bill

AKA K.S.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:33:00 - [12464]
 

Originally by: buck herrick
Originally by: Moolti
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 27/06/2011 23:41:07




October 28th is going to be an interesting date. :)




elaborate on this?


CCP has a rather large loan (that exceed their cash on hand as of their last yearly filing) due on this date.


irrelevant i am afraid, corporations restructure finance all the time. tbh restructuring this will likely be able to save them money rather than cost them



Well not really.

If they are in debt and need money to pay to keep operating, then that is A LOT different to them just being greedy and wanting money for pay rises.

Is CCP going under if they can't clear this debt? If so, then they have a pretty legit reason for MTs...

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:36:00 - [12465]
 

Originally by: Headerman


Well not really.

If they are in debt and need money to pay to keep operating, then that is A LOT different to them just being greedy and wanting money for pay rises.

Is CCP going under if they can't clear this debt? If so, then they have a pretty legit reason for MTs...


I sorry you seem to have meant to say legit reason to Shelve one of the expensive projects till they fix their balance sheets.

You dont F up the cash cow for short term gain.

IM even madder then i was before because they were using the money i pay to improve eve on other games by in large.


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:38:00 - [12466]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 28/06/2011 01:40:45

Originally by: Headerman


Well not really.

If they are in debt and need money to pay to keep operating, then that is A LOT different to them just being greedy and wanting money for pay rises.

Is CCP going under if they can't clear this debt? If so, then they have a pretty legit reason for MTs...



$8m in 4 months. That's a lot of monocles. 114285.7142857143 to be exact.


Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:40:00 - [12467]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Headerman


Well not really.

If they are in debt and need money to pay to keep operating, then that is A LOT different to them just being greedy and wanting money for pay rises.

Is CCP going under if they can't clear this debt? If so, then they have a pretty legit reason for MTs...


I sorry you seem to have meant to say legit reason to Shelve one of the expensive projects till they fix their balance sheets.

You dont F up the cash cow for short term gain.

IM even madder then i was before because they were using the money i pay to improve eve on other games by in large.




True, they should have cut back (or at least remained static and not taken on extra peeps) on making WoD or whatever their new vampire game is (sounds interesting btw). The Noble Store thing really needed CQ, it would have made no sense without it.

Mechael
Minmatar
Helhest 1st Prospectors' Collective
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:42:00 - [12468]
 

Originally by: Holly Cleland
Edited by: Holly Cleland on 28/06/2011 01:22:09
Originally by: RougeOperator
Perhaps you missed that that ship has sailed the over the last week. No one thinks much of them anymore after all this bad press.


Say that to Activision.


Seriously? Activision? They're even worse. Only the uninformed and the greedy think much of Activision.

Kiwi Miner
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:50:00 - [12469]
 

was away for a day last i heard ccp zulu was makeing a blog i take it that was just a lie to delay things while ccp called the csm to them for tea and cakes while hoping things got a bit quieter here and in game. smart move wait long enough and it wont matter the thinkers will have left the zombies will be here to follow ccp's every wish.



Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:54:00 - [12470]
 

I for one get alot of enjoyment out of Eve and i am happy to pay to keep them going and expanding. The whole 'Greed is good' email made CCP look like they wanted a pay rise. But it not, and they really do need the money, i am fine with it.

Nardkick
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:56:00 - [12471]
 

Originally by: Holly Cleland
Edited by: Holly Cleland on 28/06/2011 01:22:31
Originally by: Miilla
"CCP has a solid reputation"


I stopped reading right there.


Then you should have read the part where I said as a business, not as a reliable game developer that gives solid fan service, idiot troll.


Who the f#$k would play around with the dynamics of a stable income producer like EVE, while developing two other projects? That, is bad business.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:56:00 - [12472]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 28/06/2011 01:56:19
Originally by: Headerman
I for one get alot of enjoyment out of Eve and i am happy to pay to keep them going and expanding. The whole 'Greed is good' email made CCP look like they wanted a pay rise. But it not, and they really do need the money, i am fine with it.



$8m in 4 months. That's 114285.7142857143 Monocles to be exact.

Better start shopping rich boy.

Reyold Bengali
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.28 01:57:00 - [12473]
 

Originally by: Govinda Sertan
1000$ pants !!

1000$ PANTS MOTHERFRAKERS !!


The way it looks like they were planning to bend us over, assless chaps would have been more appropriate Razz

Maeve Nightside
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:02:00 - [12474]
 

Real world loans are only part of their prob.

They sold a lot of PLEX to the players. It is like taking out a bond (since plex represents game time. If redeemed it means a drop in subscription income). They have a lot of leveraged debt in game too.

If called in suddenly, it would be a potential hit to their ability to continue operations because their cash-on-hand could dry up.

Headerman
Minmatar
Quovis
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:03:00 - [12475]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 28/06/2011 01:56:19
Originally by: Headerman
I for one get alot of enjoyment out of Eve and i am happy to pay to keep them going and expanding. The whole 'Greed is good' email made CCP look like they wanted a pay rise. But it not, and they really do need the money, i am fine with it.



$8m in 4 months. That's 114285.7142857143 Monocles to be exact.

Better start shopping rich boy.



Hmmm i have 17 chars, so thats 17 monacles... 3 plex each... should be easily do-able.

You want one too Hobo?

Zeko Rena
Caldari
Tankt
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:07:00 - [12476]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 28/06/2011 01:56:19
Originally by: Headerman
I for one get alot of enjoyment out of Eve and i am happy to pay to keep them going and expanding. The whole 'Greed is good' email made CCP look like they wanted a pay rise. But it not, and they really do need the money, i am fine with it.



$8m in 4 months. That's 114285.7142857143 Monocles to be exact.

Better start shopping rich boy.



I know, they can start selling $1000 jeans with EVE logo's on each bum cheek, that should help right, prolly sell 52 of those as well Laughing

Kilmiester
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:09:00 - [12477]
 

Originally by: Maeve Nightside
Real world loans are only part of their prob.

They sold a lot of PLEX to the players. It is like taking out a bond (since plex represents game time. If redeemed it means a drop in subscription income). They have a lot of leveraged debt in game too.

If called in suddenly, it would be a potential hit to their ability to continue operations because their cash-on-hand could dry up.


I don't think they legally have to honor any of it. But it would be pretty disasterous PR to simply delete them all in game or cease honoring them. Not like they're doing much better here, but I guess that's subjective. But, anyone who was evaluating their company's finances would percieve them as a liablity for that exact reason.

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:24:00 - [12478]
 

Given the way CCP has managed this PR disaster, it doesn't surprise me the executives 'bet the company' on such a long and blew it on development of games-not-released (i.e. stuff that doesn't return investment in a short time?). I'm glad I don't invest in CCP...oh wait...

...don't we pay subscriptions as an investment into a game that will continually improve itself?

Bummer.

Maeve Nightside
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:24:00 - [12479]
 

Originally by: Kilmiester
Originally by: Maeve Nightside
Real world loans are only part of their prob.

They sold a lot of PLEX to the players. It is like taking out a bond (since plex represents game time. If redeemed it means a drop in subscription income). They have a lot of leveraged debt in game too.

If called in suddenly, it would be a potential hit to their ability to continue operations because their cash-on-hand could dry up.


I don't think they legally have to honor any of it. But it would be pretty disasterous PR to simply delete them all in game or cease honoring them. Not like they're doing much better here, but I guess that's subjective. But, anyone who was evaluating their company's finances would percieve them as a liablity for that exact reason.


Good points. They are probably percieved as a liability, hence the desire to erase them using NeX. And it would be tough to explain eliminating their redemption from a PR perspective.

If CCP were to stop redeeming PLEX, the whole MT market would bomb. They are in a position where they can not change the nature of PLEX because if they did, there would be no purchase to fuel the MT model.

Holly Cleland
Special Operations Foxhound
Posted - 2011.06.28 02:26:00 - [12480]
 

Edited by: Holly Cleland on 28/06/2011 02:29:33
Originally by: Mechael
Originally by: Holly Cleland
Edited by: Holly Cleland on 28/06/2011 01:22:09
Originally by: RougeOperator
Perhaps you missed that that ship has sailed the over the last week. No one thinks much of them anymore after all this bad press.


Say that to Activision.


Seriously? Activision? They're even worse. Only the uninformed and the greedy think much of Activision.


I hate Activision, are you so stupid you couldn't understand what I was saying, I was saying, Activision a soul suckingly evil company who only want money, only produce games that are 'exploitable' to quote the CEO, still make bucket loads of money despite being the biggest evil known to gaming today, they are living proof that company with bad press can still be a very effective company.

Wasn't even worth me dumbing this down. Confused


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