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Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:19:00 - [11731]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29
[...]
Like I said, I wonít be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weíll start getting some info out tomorrow. As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the Captainís Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what Iím missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way.
[...]



Thank you CCP Pann. It's refreshing to hear a voice from CCP on the "chaotic" (yet predictably human) reactions from many people.

I personally have made an effort to keep errors and bugs encountered strictly in the Incarna 1.0 ISSUES forum thread.
I also have made use of keeping my feedback (some with strong conviction) in the Incarna 1.0 FEEDBACK forum thread.

I just have become aware of this thread and I would like to simply answer your importance/priortization question stated above (re: "...confirm my observations or tell me what I'm missing...")

In MY opinion (as you asked for it), I think the reality of importance for actual game play should be in this order:

1: Number one priority: As I have been reading from others, your first (and most primary) "issue" to approach would logicly be to help assist the players who cannot (or have not) been able to log in at all for quite some time. Paying not to be able to play, I would imagine, would be the worst situation for any member of the population of EVE players. Therefore, address it foremost, in my opinion.

2: Then address fixing the "performance issues with Incarna" (you had it as #3). For me, it is seriously causing problems, bugs, issues, errors, lagging, and a constant need for an air conditioner near my non-laptop computer (which meets above your minimum requirements, still)...

3: Perhaps when those issues are handled, then delve into your #2: "many people are unhappy about the Captainís Quarters" (to quote you). Well, that's somewhat loose of a realm. I would break it down between two things: When you say "unhappy", do you mean the people who simply have aesthetic issues with CQ, or do you mean the ones who are unhappy due to the impact CQ is seemingly having on performance and overall enjoyment of the gameplay itself. If the latter is the case, I would agree. Get the technical issues out of the way first. In other words: If someone personally finds the "colors of the decor depressing", etc, well, in my opinion, those "unhappy" issues, as long as they are not having an impact on their gameplay and/or system tasking, well, those "issues" can take a back seat to the more pressing issues: The ones that affect our actual gameplay, not to mention its continuity.)

4: In my opinion, lastly, should be dealing with the whole Noble Market thing issues. Don't get me wrong: That, in no way, means I agree with it at all, but currently, I don't care about that aspect of Eve's latest expansion at this time.

I say that in that order because, if you're asking everyone with this thread "what the chief conplaint(s) is/are... My personal opinion would be get to get this game functioning and trim the fat/code, help those with login/patching/upgrading/hardware issues, then approach gameplay functionality and integration (minding the need to keep the quality of your players with longevity in perspective - and on the same priority level - with the newer players who had no idea what EVE was like 3+ years ago), then, and only then, when you have EVE back on its feet (somewhat), then deal with aesthetics, "bling bling" issues, and such.

I, personally, appreciate your candor (and finally some semblance of a response from CCP over this past "blind" week) and hope you take these proposed steps with an appreciation of concern and logical approach for all.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:21:00 - [11732]
 

Originally by: Iok Sototh
What next, I need to fly to Jita to disable sounds? Sad


Well, you already fly to Jita to enable spam, don't you?

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:21:00 - [11733]
 

Originally by: Prince Kobol
With the announced that CCP are flying members of the CSM to Iceland for an emergency meeting, this is will either make or break the CSM.

There are many people who consider the CSM to be powerless and nothing more then a PR exercise and the members themselves only serve there own interests.

Personally I believe that some members of the CSM really do care for the whole of Eve and want to be a power for good.

Regardless what are opinions are of the CSM, this meeting is the most important moment of the CSM history.

Failure in this meeting to make CCP understand what has been happening over the few days and why will surely kill the CSM.

Any trust and belief people may have that the CSM can effect CCP decisions for the good will be completely destroyed if they to fail convince CCP to answer the questions people have been demanding to know the answer to and then to back up it with actions.

On the other hand if the CSM succeed it will validate their existence like never before.

If I am right only 14% of Eve players bothered to vote in the last election, and many of those were members of alliances taking part in large block voting.

This could all change if the CSM helps to change CCP's attitude over the last few days.

Whilst some may feel its unfair to put this kind of pressure on the CSM, it is after all why there were created. Failure here by the CSM in possible the games biggest crisis of its history would almost destroy the concept of the CSM.

I wish the CSM luck as I believe that the majority of the CSM really do care.


i have mentioned my opinion that CSM is more of a focus group who is shown shinies to gauge a reaction, not any kind of governing body with power. i hope you're right, that they can change minds. however, if you'll listen to the fireside chat that was published, i don't remember mittens saying anything about changing minds. it looked like he had accepted the CSM as a public relations tool.

i hope that both of us are wrong and the CSM does have the ability to change minds. i very much doubt that they do.

you see, i've been in a corporation or two in eve. these corporations often have strong leaders, who have big ideas. sometimes the leaders gamble a lot on silly things, like trying to get the corp out into nullsec on leases, or wardeccing a large industrial corp to try to hold it to ransom. invariably, the CEO refuses to listen to advise and leads his corp to one catastrophic failure if he's lucky, and a series of them if he's not.

Hilmar's response sounds like responses i've heard from these fail CEOs. he won't listen to advise, and for better or worse, the company is moving to nullsec.

this will indeed be the defining moment of the CSM.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:22:00 - [11734]
 

Originally by: Jared Tobin
Originally by: CCP Pann




DID YOU JUST RESPOND TO A POST FROM DAYS AGO THAT WAS ALREADY DISSECTED AS RUBBISH!

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:22:00 - [11735]
 

Originally by: Gina Wuxie
I guess if our player protests dont get them to reverse direction and listen to us we could always ask Lolz to hi-jack them again and hold them for ransom til they do.

Please don't say that. This isn't some oppressive government regime. It's just a business that seems to have lost touch with its customers to some degree, and appears to be taking them for granted. Vandalism isn't the proper response.

Alu Utukku
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:24:00 - [11736]
 

Originally by: Devils Errand


review this video, and in particular, the last 5 minutes of it. It's nearly directly parallels what is going on now. Note the ACTUAL outcome, and the relevance of the forums to actual response.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

Not saying it's right or WRONG, but it IS an interesting precedent of a company that went thru the nearly exact same scenario that's going on now. This includes the media bad press.


the overwhelming suggestion from the survey discussed within this presentation surrounds the use of weapons advantages. a direct statement regarding the use of such p2w 'i-win-buttons' was that the opposing player should not be aware of the use of such a device. once a public campaign of disclosure was made the nature of the competitive change was out in the open, and the adoption of such techniques achieved high penetration due to the competitive nature of the game. the public disclosure available from killboards accentuates the ego driven behaviour by player vs player engagements that structures itself across several vertical and horizontal integrations including player/unit/corp/alliance where the player is comparing themselves in a variety of ways against the playerbase at large in friendly and unfriendly ways. the use of api tools will prove an interesting challenge.

the suggestion of acceptance is still a tainted ideal however. the pointed statement by zulu over his $1000 jeans still makes him an ******* for saying it, and showing off his fat ass in it, and as a result there might be parties interested in hiring someone at $50 to burn those jeans off his body while he's still wearing them. the question then remains, what happens to the jeans in a system driven to create jeans from tritanium /etc? if the jeans did not remain destroyed, then what part does the tritanium/etc play in the game anymore? if the jeans remained ash, then what does zulu get for his jeans? a receipt? is he likely to plunk down $1000 x 5 or 50 or 500 every time someone burns the jeans off his body? just how often is someone willing to go buy a $1000 pair of jeans for the occasion?




Casey Roy
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:25:00 - [11737]
 

Originally by: Ranita Drell
Originally by: Gina Wuxie
I guess if our player protests dont get them to reverse direction and listen to us we could always ask Lolz to hi-jack them again and hold them for ransom til they do.

Please don't say that. This isn't some oppressive government regime. It's just a business that seems to have lost touch with its customers to some degree, and appears to be taking them for granted. Vandalism isn't the proper response.

Proper response to CCP's PR has already been demonstrated. Here it is again.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:26:00 - [11738]
 

Originally by: Jaik7

i have mentioned my opinion that CSM is more of a focus group who is shown shinies to gauge a reaction, not any kind of governing body with power. i hope you're right, that they can change minds.


Been trying to imagine this meeting for days now. Figure it goes something like this.

Hilmar: "Guys, we are ready. Help us fix this. You are our only hope." (if his head has come that far)
CSM: "Well it's going to be painful you need to do XYZ."
CFO: "We can't do that we have to grow by X% in the next Y"
CSM: "Can we have this guy leave the room?"
CFO: "RAGE!!!"
CSM: "I'm outta here, lets go get drunk."
Hilmar: "No No please don't go, here we'll try to work something out"

From there.... who knows.....


Gulliver Rex
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:27:00 - [11739]
 

If I were a CSM, I would not go. Remember what happened to Gracchi Brothers? They gonna get clubbed to death by them nobles! Sad

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:28:00 - [11740]
 

how do i run a check on jared tobin to see if he's posted before and how old his corp/alliance is? because if this is his first post and the corp/alliance are new, this sounds like the ccp alt that you guys mentioned.

if someone does not list "MT denial" as the number one need in this game, then he is either uniformed, a troll, or has an illigetamite agenda

William Strannix
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:28:00 - [11741]
 

SUBSCRIPTIONS CANCELED. I HOPE I'M NOT BEING TOO "COUNTERPRODUCTIVE".........

Selnix
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:29:00 - [11742]
 

Originally by: Casey Roy
Originally by: Ranita Drell
Originally by: Gina Wuxie
I guess if our player protests dont get them to reverse direction and listen to us we could always ask Lolz to hi-jack them again and hold them for ransom til they do.

Please don't say that. This isn't some oppressive government regime. It's just a business that seems to have lost touch with its customers to some degree, and appears to be taking them for granted. Vandalism isn't the proper response.

Proper response to CCP's PR has already been demonstrated. Here it is again.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.




She should be given a write-up or at the very least a verbal warning for not wearing the proper face shield on the job. Safety First.

Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:30:00 - [11743]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Jared Tobin
Originally by: CCP Pann


DID YOU JUST RESPOND TO A POST FROM DAYS AGO THAT WAS ALREADY DISSECTED AS RUBBISH!


I suppose I did. It's still sunday night for me, so I looked at it as 2 days ago, and it was just mentioned earlier "today" in the feedback thread, and I suppose I just haven't had the time to be continually on through my entire weekend reading 320+ pages of responses.

If the message was "rubbish" then, oh well... Not the first time someone's attempt at an honest adding of their 2 ISK worth to an initial message which asked for an opinion goes into digital oblivion.

At least I tried.

Vixxen Dawn
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:30:00 - [11744]
 

Originally by: William Strannix
SUBSCRIPTIONS CANCELED. I HOPE I'M NOT BEING TOO "COUNTERPRODUCTIVE".........


such things are to be expected from you, a 'player'


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:30:00 - [11745]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 07:32:48
Originally by: Gulliver Rex
If I were a CSM, I would not go. Remember what happened to Gracchi Brothers? They gonna get clubbed to death by them nobles! Sad


GREAT ANALOGY!



That story is textbook "now".

Every last detail of what CCP is doing are included.

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:31:00 - [11746]
 

keep the propeller in the water peasants - if you need further incentive: 10 BILLION Prize from RAW23

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:35:00 - [11747]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus

Been trying to imagine this meeting for days now. Figure it goes something like this.

Hilmar: "Guys, we are ready. Help us fix this. You are our only hope." (if his head has come that far)
CSM: "Well it's going to be painful you need to do XYZ."
CFO: "We can't do that we have to grow by X% in the next Y"
CSM: "Can we have this guy leave the room?"
CFO: "RAGE!!!"
CSM: "I'm outta here, lets go get drunk."




So it'd not be totally bad. They still get some alcohool in the process.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:35:00 - [11748]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 27/06/2011 07:36:34
Originally by: Jared Tobin
Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Jared Tobin
Originally by: CCP Pann


DID YOU JUST RESPOND TO A POST FROM DAYS AGO THAT WAS ALREADY DISSECTED AS RUBBISH!


I suppose I did. It's still sunday night for me, so I looked at it as 2 days ago, and it was just mentioned earlier "today" in the feedback thread, and I suppose I just haven't had the time to be continually on through my entire weekend reading 320+ pages of responses.

If the message was "rubbish" then, oh well... Not the first time someone's attempt at an honest adding of their 2 ISK worth to an initial message which asked for an opinion goes into digital oblivion.

At least I tried.


Yeah the post was made before the leak of the email that basically said.

"Act like you care and lie to them we are going to do what we want anyway."

Her comments it turns out where nothing but empty pure PR spin****.

Smoke and mirrors game she was playing on the plebs on behalf of CCP.

Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries
B.S.I.
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:40:00 - [11749]
 

Originally by: Jaik7
how do i run a check on jared tobin to see if he's posted before and how old his corp/alliance is? because if this is his first post and the corp/alliance are new, this sounds like the ccp alt that you guys mentioned.

if someone does not list "MT denial" as the number one need in this game, then he is either uniformed, a troll, or has an illigetamite agenda


If you play Eve, sure you can look me up ingame as well as outside. Been around 3+ years. Never been to Iceland, and "agenda" when writing a message? Paranoia be with you...

I'll stick with Issues, Feedback, submitting endless petitions and even more irritatingly non-responded-to bug reports. Gee, do I sound like a damn CCP employee?

I just didn't (and won't) read through 11,000+ messages... especially if that's what I see immediately after posting.


Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:42:00 - [11750]
 

Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 27/06/2011 07:42:05
Originally by: Jared Tobin


If you play Eve, sure you can look me up ingame as well as outside. Been around 3+ years. Never been to Iceland, and "agenda" when writing a message? Paranoia be with you.



Welcome to Eve, you must be new here Very Happy

ArchenTheGreat
Caldari
Pulsar Nebulah
Army of Lovers.
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:42:00 - [11751]
 

Corporationism is like a virus. CCP touched Sony during making of Dust and now they too are infected. They are no longer a company. They're a CORPORATION now. Unfortunately I'm not sure what the cure is.

Manos Heimenbarger
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:42:00 - [11752]
 

8 pages to go and this thread is running out of steam... Well, I'm sure if CCP says anything tomorrow, it'll kick things back up a little.

Vixxen Dawn
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:45:00 - [11753]
 

Originally by: ArchenTheGreat
Corporationism is like a virus. CCP touched Sony during making of Dust and now they too are infected. They are no longer a company. They're a CORPORATION now. Unfortunately I'm not sure what the cure is.


I know; A GOOD KICK IN THE NUTS!
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Malemoris
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:47:00 - [11754]
 

Edited by: Malemoris on 27/06/2011 07:48:29
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

uhhhh

Pherick Sjang
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:51:00 - [11755]
 

CCP Zulu's nonblog indicated there'd be no further comment from CCP on the MT issue until the CSM meeting.


So basically they told us to go **** ourselves and take the yellow question with us.

Jaik7
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:51:00 - [11756]
 

Edited by: Jaik7 on 27/06/2011 08:17:57
Originally by: Jared Tobin
Originally by: Jaik7
how do i run a check on jared tobin to see if he's posted before and how old his corp/alliance is? because if this is his first post and the corp/alliance are new, this sounds like the ccp alt that you guys mentioned.

if someone does not list "MT denial" as the number one need in this game, then he is either uniformed, a troll, or has an illigetamite agenda


If you play Eve, sure you can look me up ingame as well as outside. Been around 3+ years. Never been to Iceland, and "agenda" when writing a message? Paranoia be with you...

I'll stick with Issues, Feedback, submitting endless petitions and even more irritatingly non-responded-to bug reports. Gee, do I sound like a damn CCP employee?

I just didn't (and won't) read through 11,000+ messages... especially if that's what I see immediately after posting.




i'm sorry for the skepticism, but i've had quite enough of CCP, and wouldnt put much past them at this point.

so you don't find it disturbing that no CCP empooyee could come out and say "No MT for game affecting items"? the "no golden bullets" does not count for me, because i know lawyerspeak when i see it.

three bits of literature that you'll find scattered around, which solidified my opinion of CCP:

1) the letter from Hilmar saying they wernt listening to us.
2) the two blogs by Zulu which danced around the issue of Micro Transactions
3) a video presentation put out by a part of EA that calls itself Easy, about the benefits of switching to a MT payment method

the rage you see here is resultant from that, in addition to the several promises of "no MT" plus the results that showed 70% of eve survey participants did not want anything to do with MT. you get these surveys in your mail every once in a while. these things convinced me to cancel two accounts to eve online and buy a month of Perpetuum.

note, i have no problem with Incarna, it is sort of meh for me. not a landmark expansion in my book, but a step in the direction they've been promising for a long while. i unsubbed over the refusal to say "We will not introduce MT into EVE for real items."

again, sorry about paranoia, but i feel that i am justified.

edit, as the guy above me said, they have not answered the "yellow question" which is posted throughout this thread

Doctor Garamond Trebuchet
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.27 07:56:00 - [11757]
 

Score, don't spike.

Nothing is going to happen before the meeting. Let cooler heads prevail and again, if you are really wanting to make an impact, you must cancel and if you want to cancel extra hard biomass em like I did (after donating to eve radio)

If they fix this mess, resub, no harm no foul if not, I'll see ya in Perpetuum and/or Black Prophecy

Danalee
Minmatar
Allmost Clueless
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:00:00 - [11758]
 

Aaaaaaaaaaaand it's over.

Took us longer than what was to be expected.

See you all next week!Rolling Eyes

Crye MultiCam
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:01:00 - [11759]
 

Quote:


Yeah the post was made before the leak of the email that basically said.

"Act like you care and lie to them we are going to do what we want anyway."

Her comments it turns out where nothing but empty pure PR spin****.

Smoke and mirrors game she was playing on the plebs on behalf of CCP.


Isn't it conveniently odd that the sacrificial lamb happened to be a female with 'family issues', preventing her from continuing the PR dialogue?

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.06.27 08:02:00 - [11760]
 

Originally by: Doctor Garamond Trebuchet
Score, don't spike.

Nothing is going to happen before the meeting. Let cooler heads prevail and again, if you are really wanting to make an impact, you must cancel and if you want to cancel extra hard biomass em like I did (after donating to eve radio)

If they fix this mess, resub, no harm no foul if not, I'll see ya in Perpetuum and/or Black Prophecy


If you wanna cancel extra hard, buy plex with isk, then give them to a player that is staying, and that you can trust to turn it in for game time.


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