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Carli Zandrya
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:52:00 - [11671]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 05:26:47
Originally by: CCP_Zulu
to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


Originally by: CCP_Zulu
agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve


"We are pushing ahead."



My thoughts exactly.
As long as CCP is more beholdent to their 'experts' than their players they will have a hard time 'negotiating' conditions for the subs + MT thing with the CSM. Seems to be a non-starter, but at least they've noticed the sweat on their brows.

vasuul
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:52:00 - [11672]
 

heres a bit of the links to the bad press ccp has earned from its stone walling ...HA yeah wait us out i hope you enjoy your 52 monocles sold

http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/2/20100616/Top_10_Reasons_Why_MMOs_Are_Dying-4da8339c09edb1813-5.html


http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/

http://n4g.com/news/793980/eve-online-players-protest-against-microtransactions-and-monocles-lasers-involved/com

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319384/page/1

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/eve-online-in-game-protest/503801/?page=last

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRgX1g0aeQ&

http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/1847248/emEVE-Onlineem-Players-Rage-Protest-Over-Microtransactions

http://www.blogbookmark.com/story.php?title=eve-online-players-rage-protest-over-microtransactions

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html

http://muscatoxblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/eve-online-protests-continue-over.html

http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=58382

http://games.on.net/article/12887/EVE_Online_Users_In_Protest_Over_Third_Party_Development_Fees

http://beefjack.com/news/eve-online-players-riot-in-game-against-microtransactions/

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1087505

http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-new-changes-lead-to-riots-and-fan-rage/?amp&

http://massively.joystiq.com/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/ccp-addresses-eve-controversies-in-new-dev-blog/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121

AUR is extortion say no to aur isk is good rl greed sucks, and again we ask

WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO
"SAY IT AINT SO JOE "
answer us please

I hope you don't fill our sandbox with concrete
Seriously we are passionate cause we love this game and would hate to see it die if you need more cash raise subs a few dollars
and in turn give us some new missions im sure no one would complain if you were honest and said look our production costa are going up and we need to generate a bit more revenue as such rates for playing are going to 19.95
and the AUR well it was a bad idea we will just seed these non vanity items on the market or put em in the lp store



Micha L
SRBI
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:55:00 - [11673]
 

next step sending mails to all well known Game Magazins what eve become.Very Happy


Jaik7
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:55:00 - [11674]
 

Originally by: Shayne Mudd
No one can argue, that when a business does not listen to it's customer base, that it is destined for failure.

Look at Apple's business model. They've made it an imperative rule to NOT listen to their customer base. And they sit on top of the largest amount of liquid assets of any company in the world, or at least they did at the end of the last fiscal year.

But then again... look at Apple's customer base. The EVE Online community are NOT a bunch of mindless drones who are easily impressed with shiny objects, nor are they foolish enough to fall into a spiraling and infinite trap that forces them to continue paying for their allegiance. Yes, you can develop the product to your own design and specifications. Yes you can convince the masses that they need the product through mind-manipulating marketing. Yes, you can create hidden hooks to ensure that once your product is purchased, your customers will be forced to continue purchasing from you (i.e. iTunes & App Store... What, did you really think you were spending your money on an MP3 player or laptop? That's not how Apple logs the purchase...).

And you may even then succeed and amass wealth overwhelming. But at what cost... Will you listen to your player base and continue to evolve EVE Online into the rich and wonderful player-economy & player-interaction driven experience as you have done so over the years? Or will you throw away all that you have accomplished to suckle from the teats of the bland and vapid, who have forgotten the true value of what it means to really earn their ISK and experience the universe of EVE? Or perhaps they will never have to.

Why would you ever do such a thing, when you can inject money into your Aurum account, hit a macro combination, and break that Rook's jamming suite to acquire a firing solution...



i hope you're not the last guy i give this advice to on these forums...

adding a 2x enter every once in a while makes people not skip over you post, mostly because of the psycholgical effects of the so called "wall of text"

these being, "this guy does not know how to post and therefore must have nothing good to say"

and

"OMG that's a lot of text, i don't think its worth reading"

Devils Errand
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:57:00 - [11675]
 

Originally by: vasuul
heres a bit of the links to the bad press ccp has earned from its stone walling ...HA yeah wait us out i hope you enjoy your 52 monocles sold

http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/2/20100616/Top_10_Reasons_Why_MMOs_Are_Dying-4da8339c09edb1813-5.html


http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/

http://n4g.com/news/793980/eve-online-players-protest-against-microtransactions-and-monocles-lasers-involved/com

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319384/page/1

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/eve-online-in-game-protest/503801/?page=last

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRgX1g0aeQ&

http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/1847248/emEVE-Onlineem-Players-Rage-Protest-Over-Microtransactions

http://www.blogbookmark.com/story.php?title=eve-online-players-rage-protest-over-microtransactions

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html

http://muscatoxblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/eve-online-protests-continue-over.html

http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=58382

http://games.on.net/article/12887/EVE_Online_Users_In_Protest_Over_Third_Party_Development_Fees

http://beefjack.com/news/eve-online-players-riot-in-game-against-microtransactions/

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1087505

http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-new-changes-lead-to-riots-and-fan-rage/?amp&

http://massively.joystiq.com/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/ccp-addresses-eve-controversies-in-new-dev-blog/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121

AUR is extortion say no to aur isk is good rl greed sucks, and again we ask

WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO
"SAY IT AINT SO JOE "
answer us please

I hope you don't fill our sandbox with concrete
Seriously we are passionate cause we love this game and would hate to see it die if you need more cash raise subs a few dollars
and in turn give us some new missions im sure no one would complain if you were honest and said look our production costa are going up and we need to generate a bit more revenue as such rates for playing are going to 19.95
and the AUR well it was a bad idea we will just seed these non vanity items on the market or put em in the lp store





review this video, and in particular, the last 5 minutes of it. It's nearly directly parallels what is going on now. Note the ACTUAL outcome, and the relevance of the forums to actual response.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

Not saying it's right or WRONG, but it IS an interesting precedent of a company that went thru the nearly exact same scenario that's going on now. This includes the media bad press.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:00:00 - [11676]
 

Originally by: Micha L
next step sending mails to all well known Game Magazins what eve become.Very Happy




Welcome to last week. :-)

It's the real-world media now.

Arxerisdam Montano
Caldari
Umbral Watchers
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:00:00 - [11677]
 


Selnix
Gallente
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:03:00 - [11678]
 

Originally by: Shayne Mudd
The EVE Online community are NOT a bunch of mindless drones who are easily impressed with shiny objects.


I would argue that this is EXACTLY what we are. Problem being that we want our shiny objects to fly around and make pretty explosions happen, not wander back and forth in a room that happens to be identical to every other person's wandering room whilst listening to the impatient hum of our computers' cooling fans on overload.

Daisy Warkorr
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:05:00 - [11679]
 

Edited by: Daisy Warkorr on 27/06/2011 06:07:01
Edited by: Daisy Warkorr on 27/06/2011 06:06:27
Happy Spacemen!

The fanbois are the only people luvvin INCARNAGE

Check out the new MT gear they're wearin!

MT gear Happy fanbois

Check out the Fanbois and their MT threads!

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:10:00 - [11680]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 06:11:45
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 06:11:27
Originally by: Daisy Warkorr
link to another site


Fixed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbGkvwEqqzE

Another one similar :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKO9h-gG4Qg 5-4-3-1 OFF BLAST!

OHU812
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:11:00 - [11681]
 

Hmmmm!

+11k replies.

Sorry...

Player base = 0
Corporate greed =+1

We lose.

Kaaeliaa
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:11:00 - [11682]
 

Originally by: Arvir Aris

IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

This is no longer a threadnought. This has passed the threshhold into armathreaddon.


Threadgendary Armathreddon?

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:15:00 - [11683]
 

Originally by: Kaaeliaa
Originally by: Arvir Aris

IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

This is no longer a threadnought. This has passed the threshhold into armathreaddon.


Threadgendary Armathreddon?


This thread is beyond any title.

It is now simply --- The Thread ---

Flaming Lemming
Caldari
Puppeteer Press
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:16:00 - [11684]
 

Originally by: vasuul
heres a bit of the links to the bad press ccp has earned from its stone walling ...HA yeah wait us out i hope you enjoy your 52 monocles sold

http://forum.mmosite.com/thread/2/2/20100616/Top_10_Reasons_Why_MMOs_Are_Dying-4da8339c09edb1813-5.html


http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-controversy-erupts-in-protests/

http://n4g.com/news/793980/eve-online-players-protest-against-microtransactions-and-monocles-lasers-involved/com

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/319384/page/1

http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion/30/eve-online-in-game-protest/503801/?page=last

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqRgX1g0aeQ&

http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/06/25/1847248/emEVE-Onlineem-Players-Rage-Protest-Over-Microtransactions

http://www.blogbookmark.com/story.php?title=eve-online-players-rage-protest-over-microtransactions

http://mmodata.blogspot.com/2011/06/riots-in-eve-against-microtransactions.html

http://muscatoxblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/eve-online-protests-continue-over.html

http://www.pcgamer.com/?p=58382

http://games.on.net/article/12887/EVE_Online_Users_In_Protest_Over_Third_Party_Development_Fees

http://beefjack.com/news/eve-online-players-riot-in-game-against-microtransactions/

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?m=1087505

http://segmentnext.com/2011/06/25/eve-online-new-changes-lead-to-riots-and-fan-rage/?amp&

http://massively.joystiq.com/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died/

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/24/ccp-addresses-eve-controversies-in-new-dev-blog/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2387588,00.asp?kc=PCRSS03069TX1K0001121

AUR is extortion say no to aur isk is good rl greed sucks, and again we ask

WILL CCP START SELLING NON VANITY ITEMS ON NEX(SUCH AS FACTION ITEMS, STANDINGS AND OTHER CHARACTER ADVANCEMENTS)? YES OR NO
"SAY IT AINT SO JOE "
answer us please

I hope you don't fill our sandbox with concrete
Seriously we are passionate cause we love this game and would hate to see it die if you need more cash raise subs a few dollars
and in turn give us some new missions im sure no one would complain if you were honest and said look our production costa are going up and we need to generate a bit more revenue as such rates for playing are going to 19.95
and the AUR well it was a bad idea we will just seed these non vanity items on the market or put em in the lp store





Damn, thats a lot of bad press!

Yahyan
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:18:00 - [11685]
 

just want to support the cause. ccp should notice this little thread

Kaaeliaa
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:18:00 - [11686]
 

Originally by: Londo Cebb
Originally by: Kaaeliaa
Originally by: Arvir Aris

IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE!

This is no longer a threadnought. This has passed the threshhold into armathreaddon.


Threadgendary Armathreddon?


This thread is beyond any title.

It is now simply --- The Thread ---


You're probably right. If we keep it up, it will be too mythical to have a name, especially when CCP nukes these forums and moves all the new players to the new forums. It will go down in EVE lore as just...


THE thread.

ALLYOURMONEY BELONGTOUS
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:19:00 - [11687]
 

MAN!!! I love the EVE community. Never in my life have I seen a GAME unite people this way!!!

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:20:00 - [11688]
 

Originally by: ALLYOURMONEY BELONGTOUS
MAN!!! I love the EVE community. Never in my life have I seen a GAME unite people this way!!!


Then you lost Twisted Evil

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:23:00 - [11689]
 

CCP is obviously not very good at risk management/crisis management, so I wonder what they will come up with to get the situation under control.

“Character is not made in a crisis it is only exhibited.” - Robert Freeman

They have shown that they are rather flexible on ethics, but how far would they go? Since we have so many blissfully ignorant players (i.e. perfect customer) the list of our email adresses must be worth a few bucks ... hmmm, better check Icelandic Data Protection Act.




Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:27:00 - [11690]
 

Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
CCP is obviously not very good at risk management/crisis management, so I wonder what they will come up with to get the situation under control.

“Character is not made in a crisis it is only exhibited.” - Robert Freeman

They have shown that they are rather flexible on ethics, but how far would they go? Since we have so many blissfully ignorant players (i.e. perfect customer) the list of our email adresses must be worth a few bucks ... hmmm, better check Icelandic Data Protection Act.




I don't like mentioning him by name because they have my address and I generally have a little fear for people who own countries.

To answer "flexible on ethics" and "How far will they go?"

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

That far.


Gina Wuxie
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:30:00 - [11691]
 

I think CCP intentionally leaked the email for a publicity and marketing ploy to bring more exposure to their company and the games they have coming out.

They no that there is no point in having CQ right now and that it is ineffective until Walking about in station is implemented. So they took out the option to stir public out cry and when there wasnt enough media attention they release an email sayin that the only thing they would listen to was players actions, which is a form of reverse psychology to get players to do exactly that ... and now they have a massive amount of media exposure. I look for them to fully implement a choice tomorrow allowing CQ or original station to then appear to the public as a caring company, which at one point in time it really used to be, but has since lost that in its quest to make EVE players fund and mold into Dust 514 instead of the other way around.
The vote right now is overwhelming in favor of having original station back as an option.

Nozomi en Tilavine
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:32:00 - [11692]
 

Right now i wont sub again.

"I can tell you this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say."

I'am doing the same with you CCP.
I won't remove the pressure on you, because you say something.
I have a very limited trust in you right now. Only with action, you will gain my trust and my sub.

if needed i will buy one or two plex to see what you do, but i don't give you more time to convince me.

Richard Koslinsky
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:33:00 - [11693]
 

Originally by: Devils Errand


review this video, and in particular, the last 5 minutes of it. It's nearly directly parallels what is going on now. Note the ACTUAL outcome, and the relevance of the forums to actual response.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

Not saying it's right or WRONG, but it IS an interesting precedent of a company that went thru the nearly exact same scenario that's going on now. This includes the media bad press.



There is a BIG difference between Eve and the games they have listed. Those games were all free to play, not $15 a month. People might not mind in a game that is free if someone buys a gun permanently so they don't have to play for 1-2 hours with ads in order to earn the gun for a couple hours. That model just doesn't work when people are already paying for the game in the first place and now they want us to pay again.

P3ROXIDE
Wildly Inappropriate
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:35:00 - [11694]
 

Quote:
  1. never stop poasting


Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:36:00 - [11695]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 27/06/2011 06:36:48
Originally by: Richard Koslinsky
That model just doesn't work when people are already paying for the game in the first place and now they want us to pay again.


"It does not make sense"

CCP know this.

The plan was to go F2P/P2W after you've been milked during the transition phase.


Lord Timelord
GETCO
Waterboard
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:37:00 - [11696]
 

Seven Plus Year EVE Veteran chiming in here, of which my main has been in CONTINUOUS USE all of that time (124M+ SP).

CCP... think about all of the subscription fees for both accounts, and any PLEX's I've purchased over the years. Think about it HARD. Go ahead and look at my account records... I'll wait... Go ahead and add it all up...

No imagine such a loyal customer that is fed up with continuous changes to things in game that didn't need to be changed. For a few examples:

Dominix Drone Nerf (# of Drones in the air for the newer players), Ship Maintenance Bays where you can no longer fit anything but charges (an infuriating and unnecessary change) in ships cargo holds, Sov changes, Jump Bridges, and so many nerfs that you could fill a Football Stadium with them all.

Consider bugs that have been in game YEARS that have not been fixed. POS's have been a love/hate relationship since they have been introduced into the game.

Now consider that only ONE of my FOUR Computers at home will now run the Client due to the Shader 3 Requirements. Yes I know that they were coming, and I am planning to upgrade other pc's (as money becomes available). But you know what the problem is?

My Main computer became so HOT sitting in station from the new clients demands that the heat killed the motherboard in my main PC. My Video Card got at an astounding 105C, and cooked the board. MAN DOWN! (/me contacts NewEgg for replacement parts). That is worse than the "boot.ini" debacle (YES, I was a VICTIM of that programmers horrendous error). Fortunately I was able to fix it and avoid a reinstall of my OS.

Players have been asking FOR YEARS to please make a way for someone to just que up more skills without having to fully load the client. Via EVE Gate, Smart Phone Application, but SOMETHING. We DO NOT CARE that you are resisting such a change. We are paying you to play the game, and we WANT that FEATURE added to it.

Imagine the amount of players that could breathe a sigh of relief being able to start a new skill via a browser (which is allowed) while stuck at work on a 12 hour shift. Most jobs forbid installing any software (and for good reason of course), but allow you to use a browser. Just make it happen... sooner rather than later.

And all of this is just what has happened in the PAST. Now I'm finally getting to what the current issue is!

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will the Collective EVE Playerbase allow all our YEARS OF TRAINING be circumvented by another player that can simply use their Credit Card and load up on Skillpoints, Ships, Gear, Ammo, Etc., to SYNTHETICALLY gain an advantage over someone that EARNED those Assets/Skills!

If you want to charge for a custom flame job, or Corporate/Alliance Logo on a Supercarrier or Titan... go for it. But DO NOT allow people to just outright buy the Skillpoints, Ships, Modules, Ammo, Etc. directly via cash!

All of this shows that the CSM needs MORE POWER... A HELL OF A LOT MORE. They also need to be listened to, and not ignored. I see that a lot of people at CCP have completely lost touch with the playerbase. The CSM is there to act as our liaison and bring our ideas and views to you.

Failure to use that Asset, will be at YOUR EXPENSE!

TWO PAYING ACCOUNTS MARKED FOR CANCELLATION AT THIS TIME.

END OF LINE

Gina Wuxie
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:37:00 - [11697]
 

I guess if our player protests dont get them to reverse direction and listen to us we could always ask Lolz to hi-jack them again and hold them for ransom til they do.

It is interesting that such an anti-government hacking group would target CCP...kind of makes you wonder if some of their members arent eve players?...think about it

Kewso
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:40:00 - [11698]
 


Divus
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:41:00 - [11699]
 

Eve is on the verge of turning into "World Of Eve Barbie Heroes Online". Shame realy.

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:41:00 - [11700]
 

Edited by: Reed Tiburon on 27/06/2011 06:41:50
Does it matter what they say? Yes, no, about AUR for non-vanity MTs?

Because the leaked newsletter said yes, as supported by Hilmar's email. Meanwhile.

Originally by: CCP Zulu
It‘s clear that it‘s the will of the community to keep virtual goods sales outside the spectrum of what we classify as the "merit economy". That refers to skills gained over time or items that have a gameplay impact. So after discussions, designs, brainstorming and all sorts of processes we‘ve come up with a strategy that we‘ve already polished with the help of the CSM and would now want to present to the larger community.

Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design has been done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=815
November 22, 2010.

Quote:
So this thing is vanity items only?
Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=913
May 27, 2011


And since I can't log in:
Quote:
Please note that although we are discontinuing support of Shader Model 2 we will not actively block those cards from running the client.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=882
March 21, 2011

They have no interest in telling us the truth.

Fact of the matter is this:

"We will go as slow as we have to."


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