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Govinda Sertan
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:00:00 - [11401]
 

Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 26/06/2011 23:38:37
There is a single reason for all the problems there is between CCP and the gamers fanbase :

1. Why do they stop caring about what we say ?
2. Why didnt they make any major effort to fix bugs, upgrade the game the past few years ?
3. Why they will only force Incarna-like features and online store from now on ?

Because they have changed their business model years ago. They dont intend to be user-friendly anymore. They dont intend to take advice from the community (CSM is an illusion of that).

They follows a new strategy : more and more and more paying content. And who cares if 5-10 % players go away, when the remaining will pay 2 times more than before to continue playing ?

It sure is sad. But consider the fact that now, even if they want to, CCP cant change their business model now. They are engaged. It's over.

TL;DR: expect more and more BS to buy time in days to come. And more and more 1000$ pants.

1: Us eve players dont pay the bills? We also make it impossible for CCP to introduce new people to eve (eve has ALWAYS been harsh to noobs, but now with goons and crew its even worse). If we dont help them grow, why would they listen to us? You think this is some sort of co-op? They have a company to run afterall.....

2: You obviously missed the dev blogs explaining all the work and code needed to go into getting incarna here? All the stuff about fetching data and stuff outside python and allowing c++ modules alot more freedom... If you lot bothered to read some times.......

3: again, READ THE ****ING DEVBLOGS. READ ABOUT TEAM BFF AND 0.0 IMPROVMENTS. FFS.

TL;DR : READ THE ****ING DEVBLOGS


1. Comon, this is how the gameplay works : the oldest are the strongest. What can anyone do about that ? Oh wait I know : what if you can pay your skills with $$ ?
2. Who care about the work to makes incarna : it wasn't worth it AT ALL from a gamer point of view. And everybody knows Incarna is just a 3D interactive windowcase for the new NeX store.
3. WHO ****IN CARES !!! Their strategy to implement P2W is so obvious now ! And it will makes the hole game pointless !

TL;DR : Who cares what CCP says, since what matters is what they DO : crap crap crap !

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:03:00 - [11402]
 

Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Miilla

I don't call the shots in Eve, Hilmar and his investors bosses do. personally I don't give a rats what he does with it. If I don't like it, I move on. Seems a lot are choosing the latter.



So you avoid the questions...very well. I rest my case.




I forgot what the question was, it is probably because all I have seen the past week is FLUFF AND FUDGE.




The original questions were as following:

1. Do you want EVE to be a "test bed" for new technology?
2. Do you mind EVE being a "test bed" for new technology?
3. Do you want new technology to be introduced to EVE at all?
4. (added question) How do you distinguish the two?
5. (added question) Do you want to keep technology exclusive to EVE? if so how? A promise that a technology used in EVE will never be used anywhere else? A written and signed document that the new technology introduced to EVE will never be used anywhere else?


1: I don't care. I was fine with it and also the concept of WiS (Incarna) but that direction changed years ago, it became a vehicle for MT's.
2. I really don't care anymore, I knew it was a test bed because they have nothing else really to test it on, WoD is not a test bed, it is going to be their PREMIUM product.
3. I really don't care about Eve in its current direction anymore, it had potential, but I realised that it is reaching its life and look around at the competitors comming out in a couple of years, they will be new. Eve cannot compete, especially now with the higher costs comming, and yes, it will cost more, just by stealth.
4: We can tell it is test bed by the companies direction, when u look at a game, also look at the company and their portfolio and the direction of the market also look at the commimtment CCP are giving to Eve, lack luster, a test bed attitude, and a final BOOST for CASH.
5. I really dont care what they do with THEIR technology IP ASSETS, it certianlly will not be exclusive to eve as it is near end of life, hence the final BOOSTER "features".

read my last for a definition of what a BOOST is.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:03:00 - [11403]
 

Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 26/06/2011 23:38:37
There is a single reason for all the problems there is between CCP and the gamers fanbase :

1. Why do they stop caring about what we say ?
2. Why didnt they make any major effort to fix bugs, upgrade the game the past few years ?
3. Why they will only force Incarna-like features and online store from now on ?

Because they have changed their business model years ago. They dont intend to be user-friendly anymore. They dont intend to take advice from the community (CSM is an illusion of that).

They follows a new strategy : more and more and more paying content. And who cares if 5-10 % players go away, when the remaining will pay 2 times more than before to continue playing ?

It sure is sad. But consider the fact that now, even if they want to, CCP cant change their business model now. They are engaged. It's over.

TL;DR: expect more and more BS to buy time in days to come. And more and more 1000$ pants.

1: Us eve players dont pay the bills? We also make it impossible for CCP to introduce new people to eve (eve has ALWAYS been harsh to noobs, but now with goons and crew its even worse). If we dont help them grow, why would they listen to us? You think this is some sort of co-op? They have a company to run afterall.....

2: You obviously missed the dev blogs explaining all the work and code needed to go into getting incarna here? All the stuff about fetching data and stuff outside python and allowing c++ modules alot more freedom... If you lot bothered to read some times.......

3: again, READ THE ****ING DEVBLOGS. READ ABOUT TEAM BFF AND 0.0 IMPROVMENTS. FFS.

TL;DR : READ THE ****ING DEVBLOGS


1. Comon, this is how the gameplay works : the oldest are the strongest. What can anyone do about that ? Oh wait I know : what if you can pay your skills with $$ ?
2. Who care about the work to makes incarna : it wasn't worth it AT ALL from a gamer point of view. And everybody knows Incarna is just a 3D interactive windowcase for the new NeX store.
3. WHO ****IN CARES !!! Their strategy to implement P2W is so obvious now ! And it will makes the hole game pointless !

TL;DR : Who cares what CCP says, since what matters is what they DO : crap crap crap !


Also Python had nothing to do with Incarna or there'd be more nudity YARRRR!!

Baillif
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:04:00 - [11404]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 23:46:31
Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 26/06/2011 23:38:37
There is a single reason for all the problems there is between CCP and the gamers fanbase :

1. Why do they stop caring about what we say ?
2. Why didnt they make any major effort to fix bugs, upgrade the game the past few years ?
3. Why they will only force Incarna-like features and online store from now on ?

Because they have changed their business model years ago. They dont intend to be user-friendly anymore. They dont intend to take advice from the community (CSM is an illusion of that).

They follows a new strategy : more and more and more paying content. And who cares if 5-10 % players go away, when the remaining will pay 2 times more than before to continue playing ?

It sure is sad. But consider the fact that now, even if they want to, CCP cant change their business model now. They are engaged. It's over.

TL;DR: expect more and more BS to buy time in days to come. And more and more 1000$ pants.



Think of the CSM as a baby passifier to keep the customers entertained with the illusion of them being important, as their purpose is to fund CCP's WoW, called WoD.

That's how CCP sees them, that is how I see them. It is called REALITY.

Eve is that child in the family that will always get 2nd attention to their prize baby, WoD. Eve is reaching its lifespan and they are going to jump to WoD and then stick Eve on life support, but one can argue Eve is on life support already. It is obvious, non commitment to features, just enough to get the funding in place (Incarna is a Trojan Horse for that) then once that is in, that it is purpose. Don't expect much more features outside of that track for Eve in future.

Think of Incarna as a TROLLEY DASH around the mall in a competition to get the highest revenue. It's called a BOOST. You go for the BIG ONE, thieves use it in stores, called a BOOSTER BAG, and hit the store HARD, not one or 2 items in the pockets, a HUGE BLOODY METAL TINFOIL BAG and BOOST IT, one massive HIT.


The reason for all this rage now, is because customers (players) are only NOW starting to REALISE THIS. Some have been saying this for years, they where bashed. Well they were right.




Pretty much this.

Eve-online forever was a lie

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:06:00 - [11405]
 


Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:06:00 - [11406]
 

Originally by: Baillif
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 23:46:31
Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 26/06/2011 23:38:37
There is a single reason for all the problems there is between CCP and the gamers fanbase :

1. Why do they stop caring about what we say ?
2. Why didnt they make any major effort to fix bugs, upgrade the game the past few years ?
3. Why they will only force Incarna-like features and online store from now on ?

Because they have changed their business model years ago. They dont intend to be user-friendly anymore. They dont intend to take advice from the community (CSM is an illusion of that).

They follows a new strategy : more and more and more paying content. And who cares if 5-10 % players go away, when the remaining will pay 2 times more than before to continue playing ?

It sure is sad. But consider the fact that now, even if they want to, CCP cant change their business model now. They are engaged. It's over.

TL;DR: expect more and more BS to buy time in days to come. And more and more 1000$ pants.



Think of the CSM as a baby passifier to keep the customers entertained with the illusion of them being important, as their purpose is to fund CCP's WoW, called WoD.

That's how CCP sees them, that is how I see them. It is called REALITY.

Eve is that child in the family that will always get 2nd attention to their prize baby, WoD. Eve is reaching its lifespan and they are going to jump to WoD and then stick Eve on life support, but one can argue Eve is on life support already. It is obvious, non commitment to features, just enough to get the funding in place (Incarna is a Trojan Horse for that) then once that is in, that it is purpose. Don't expect much more features outside of that track for Eve in future.

Think of Incarna as a TROLLEY DASH around the mall in a competition to get the highest revenue. It's called a BOOST. You go for the BIG ONE, thieves use it in stores, called a BOOSTER BAG, and hit the store HARD, not one or 2 items in the pockets, a HUGE BLOODY METAL TINFOIL BAG and BOOST IT, one massive HIT.


The reason for all this rage now, is because customers (players) are only NOW starting to REALISE THIS. Some have been saying this for years, they where bashed. Well they were right.




Pretty much this.

Eve-online forever was a lie


Use the boost to get through!

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Ghard Eleran
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:07:00 - [11407]
 

perhaps now is the time to back down and admit i was wrong i am so sorry for my mistakes as a customer and would ask that you forgive me and take me back... no wait thats not what i meant for PONY!!!!

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:07:00 - [11408]
 

Edited by: Zephy Russ on 27/06/2011 00:11:16
Come on guys, the big push has been answered, don't prve the haters right. I don't call bull****, that's a definitive answer right there. I'm personally content as the "Big Yellow Question" has been answered, and not in the way I was afraid it would be. For now, that is enough. Nearly everything else came about as a result of this question, and as such everything else can be answered later.

Thank you, CCP Zulu. Thank you.

Siena Petrucis
Caldari
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:10:00 - [11409]
 

Originally by: Siena Petrucis
Hm .. usually 1 or 2 accounts for sale at eBay in Germany. Now there are 15.


Also, the Perpetuum server is flooded with a high number of new players in the last two days ...
http://forums.perpetuum-online.com/topic/2683/server-load-issues-in-the-last-48-hours/

It might be that CCP does not make it through the transition period to pay2win items.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:10:00 - [11410]
 

Originally by: Zephy Russ
Edited by: Zephy Russ on 27/06/2011 00:09:14
I don't call bull****, that's a definitive answer right there. I'm personally content as the "Big Yellow Question" has been answered, and not in the way I was afraid it would be. For now, that is enough. Nearly everything else came about as a result of this question, and as such everything else can be answered later.

Thank you, CCP Zulu. Thank you.



Enjoy your shock later.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:11:00 - [11411]
 

Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Govinda Sertan
Edited by: Govinda Sertan on 26/06/2011 23:38:37
There is a single reason for all the problems there is between CCP and the gamers fanbase :

1. Why do they stop caring about what we say ?
2. Why didnt they make any major effort to fix bugs, upgrade the game the past few years ?
3. Why they will only force Incarna-like features and online store from now on ?

Because they have changed their business model years ago. They dont intend to be user-friendly anymore. They dont intend to take advice from the community (CSM is an illusion of that).

They follows a new strategy : more and more and more paying content. And who cares if 5-10 % players go away, when the remaining will pay 2 times more than before to continue playing ?

It sure is sad. But consider the fact that now, even if they want to, CCP cant change their business model now. They are engaged. It's over.

TL;DR: expect more and more BS to buy time in days to come. And more and more 1000$ pants.

1: Us eve players dont pay the bills? We also make it impossible for CCP to introduce new people to eve (eve has ALWAYS been harsh to noobs, but now with goons and crew its even worse). If we dont help them grow, why would they listen to us? You think this is some sort of co-op? They have a company to run afterall.....

2: You obviously missed the dev blogs explaining all the work and code needed to go into getting incarna here? All the stuff about fetching data and stuff outside python and allowing c++ modules alot more freedom... If you lot bothered to read some times.......

3: again, READ THE ****ING DEVBLOGS. READ ABOUT TEAM BFF AND 0.0 IMPROVMENTS. FFS.

TL;DR : READ THE ****ING DEVBLOGS


1. Comon, this is how the gameplay works : the oldest are the strongest. What can anyone do about that ? Oh wait I know : what if you can pay your skills with $$ ?
2. Who care about the work to makes incarna : it wasn't worth it AT ALL from a gamer point of view. And everybody knows Incarna is just a 3D interactive windowcase for the new NeX store.
3. WHO ****IN CARES !!! Their strategy to implement P2W is so obvious now ! And it will makes the hole game pointless !

TL;DR : Who cares what CCP says, since what matters is what they DO : crap crap crap !



You really should read, would not want you sounding ******ed or anything....


http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=925


Quote:
Bottom line: Code written in Stackless Python can only execute as fast as your fastest CPU core can go. A 4 or 8 CPU big-iron server will burn up a single CPU and leave the others idle, unless we span more nodes to harness the other CPUs, which works well for a lot of the logic in EVE which is stateless or only mildly reliant on shared state but presents challenges in logic which is heavily reliant on shared state, such as space simulation and walking around space stations.


then later in the blog....


Quote:

If it forwards it, this happens in-place off the GIL; Machonet/Python is never invoked. This means our Proxies can route BlueNet packets entirely in parallel, and without the overhead of thunking to Python or de-pickling/re-pickling the data. How effective is this? We're not sure yet, but its somewhere between "unbelievably stunning" and "impossibly amazing" reductions in lag and machine load for systems where this is applicable. Seriously we can't publish findings yet, we don't believe them.




They had to do ALL this crap to make incarna work, which turns out to have MAJOR benis for us who like spaceships. Seriously READ THE BLOG.

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:13:00 - [11412]
 

Eve is dead! Very Happy

Or dying as is the usual state Razz

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:13:00 - [11413]
 

Yes indeed. The sheer amount of effort that's gone practically unnoticed because of this debacle is a damn shame, to say the least.

Lakuma
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:13:00 - [11414]
 

FINAL DEVBLOG PRE-CSM-MEETING

While I encourage everyone to maintain the riot as well as this thread, please note this devblog and what is explicitly stated in it - NO GOLD AMMO IN EVE. The meeting isn't for some time - so obviously things will be cooling down. Reach 400 pages brethren! Then ensure that this stays at the top everyday until the meeting is finished!

You now have your noose secured on their neck - Make sure when they commit the crime you drop the platform.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:14:00 - [11415]
 

Originally by: Miilla

1: I don't care. I was fine with it and also the concept of WiS (Incarna) but that direction changed years ago, it became a vehicle for MT's.
2. I really don't care anymore, I knew it was a test bed because they have nothing else really to test it on, WoD is not a test bed, it is going to be their PREMIUM product.
3. I really don't care about Eve in its current direction anymore, it had potential, but I realised that it is reaching its life and look around at the competitors comming out in a couple of years, they will be new. Eve cannot compete, especially now with the higher costs comming, and yes, it will cost more, just by stealth.
4: We can tell it is test bed by the companies direction, when u look at a game, also look at the company and their portfolio and the direction of the market also look at the commimtment CCP are giving to Eve, lack luster, a test bed attitude, and a final BOOST for CASH.
5. I really dont care what they do with THEIR technology IP ASSETS, it certianlly will not be exclusive to eve as it is near end of life, hence the final BOOSTER "features".

read my last for a definition of what a BOOST is.


So like I said..you're avoiding the questions after making some obviously biased claims about the reasons behind new technology, and making claims to know the thinking and intentions of CCP that you couldn't POSSIBLY know. Of course you care.
You have said all that could be said to discredit you on this point.
As I said, I rest my case.

Rabuso
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:15:00 - [11416]
 

i dont mind MT if the game is free to play.


lech lizdian
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:15:00 - [11417]
 

Edited by: lech lizdian on 27/06/2011 00:16:39
Originally by: MeBiatch
Edited by: MeBiatch on 26/06/2011 23:55:24
make the storeBPC only!


This is how it should work.

I have a list of items in the store all of them are bpc's (each bpc has 5 runs on it)

lets say this time i pick monocole so i drop $60 bones and get the bpc...

i then have a list of ruff materials that i need to make the awesome monocles...

so i jump in my hauler go over the the planet and start making the base materials i need...

once i have the materials i then go back to the station and open industry and start a run cycle to construct the monocles...

I can then sell this item on contract or market or my store(when i get one) for ISK...

Do MT this way and i dont think people will have a problem with it...

make the arum store BPC onlyTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Personally i would want my store to be a "west cost choppers" where i install awesome engine trails and paint jobs...




remember you dont have to use real money to do any of this you can still buy plex for isk...

Bailian Moxtain
NibbleTek
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:16:00 - [11418]
 

u mad
u jelly

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:17:00 - [11419]
 

They should have been flying the CSM there the next day.

They put it days out so they could buy more time hoping to cool down the player base.

Even though all the initial attempts to cool it down failed. 8th times the charm right?

Obviously Confidential
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:18:00 - [11420]
 

I believe a proper stand was made, attention was caught and are starting to get this huge beast to move, even if in baby steps.

We should remain vigilant and keep pushing, but also give them time to change and to work their ways. The CSM is the proper place to do this.

I suggest we rest and wait, I haven't slept a lot with all this madness.

Keeping up this intense level of protest will only tire the community over time. Much better to stop now and leave the door open to coming back in the future. Which I hope never happens.

If I am right, some of the decisions to be taken are very hard on CCP - they have been hallucinating on this WoD and DUST vaporware for too long and they take EVE for granted and easy milk money - it is always hard to abandon a dream, or at least to postpone it a bit. But CCP has a much better reality to step on. EVE. The most awesome game ever.

"If you let yourself dream for too long...you might wake up dead"

CCP is not waking up dead. They are waking up to an awesome reality, a bit smaller than this market full of vampires and ps3 soldiers that they were dreaming of, but still filled with an passionate community, tons of neat stuff, awesome gameplay, lots of room to grow and LOADS OF WORK TO DO AND THINGS TO IMPROVE.

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:18:00 - [11421]
 

No gold ammo means less work for them since they wont need to make gold missile textures. Problem is the normally colored Aurum ammo that will deal 50% more damage than anything a player can build in TQ.

Moon Shadowfall
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:18:00 - [11422]
 


Could you look at my thread and see my speculation on this event? I'd like to see your thoughts on this... :P

Title:

Eve's future..and why it's good (and why they cant answer too)

Thaya-rens Ostus
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:20:00 - [11423]
 

Edited by: Thaya-rens Ostus on 27/06/2011 00:20:20
Well.

**IF** aurum is intended to ONLY be used for NON-VANITY items, I will resubscribe my two accounts. Otherwise, I doubt I'll be back. The most recent dev blog from CCP Zulu indicates that CCP might be contemplating NOT selling non-vanity items. If this be the case, then I will applaud them. And stay subscribed forever. Even if I stop playing.

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:20:00 - [11424]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 27/06/2011 00:20:45
Originally by: lech lizdian
Edited by: lech lizdian on 27/06/2011 00:16:39
Originally by: MeBiatch
Edited by: MeBiatch on 26/06/2011 23:55:24
make the storeBPC only!


This is how it should work.

I have a list of items in the store all of them are bpc's (each bpc has 5 runs on it)

lets say this time i pick monocole so i drop $60 bones and get the bpc...

i then have a list of ruff materials that i need to make the awesome monocles...

so i jump in my hauler go over the the planet and start making the base materials i need...

once i have the materials i then go back to the station and open industry and start a run cycle to construct the monocles...

I can then sell this item on contract or market or my store(when i get one) for ISK...

Do MT this way and i dont think people will have a problem with it...

make the arum store BPC onlyTwisted EvilTwisted EvilTwisted Evil

Personally i would want my store to be a "west cost choppers" where i install awesome engine trails and paint jobs...




remember you dont have to use real money to do any of this you can still buy plex for isk...


That plex comes from realy mony fool.

Aurum purcheses circumvent the player economy. Where as plex before you still had to use the player economy to get isk or mods.

It removes all other players from the equation that made even work in the first place.


EVE online was free money for them in many ways. Cause we would stick with it since we had a lot of control in the sandbox. They now plan to take out all the sand in the sandbox.

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:21:00 - [11425]
 

This is CCP Zulu writing as himself. I trust that he'll be capable of sticking to the spirit of his words, not the wording.

Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:24:00 - [11426]
 


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:25:00 - [11427]
 

Originally by: Cadela Fria
Originally by: Miilla

1: I don't care. I was fine with it and also the concept of WiS (Incarna) but that direction changed years ago, it became a vehicle for MT's.
2. I really don't care anymore, I knew it was a test bed because they have nothing else really to test it on, WoD is not a test bed, it is going to be their PREMIUM product.
3. I really don't care about Eve in its current direction anymore, it had potential, but I realised that it is reaching its life and look around at the competitors comming out in a couple of years, they will be new. Eve cannot compete, especially now with the higher costs comming, and yes, it will cost more, just by stealth.
4: We can tell it is test bed by the companies direction, when u look at a game, also look at the company and their portfolio and the direction of the market also look at the commimtment CCP are giving to Eve, lack luster, a test bed attitude, and a final BOOST for CASH.
5. I really dont care what they do with THEIR technology IP ASSETS, it certianlly will not be exclusive to eve as it is near end of life, hence the final BOOSTER "features".

read my last for a definition of what a BOOST is.


So like I said..you're avoiding the questions after making some obviously biased claims about the reasons behind new technology, and making claims to know the thinking and intentions of CCP that you couldn't POSSIBLY know. Of course you care.
You have said all that could be said to discredit you on this point.
As I said, I rest my case.




Actually I answered your questions very clearly. Even more clearly than CCP's answers in fact.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:29:00 - [11428]
 


Who is that prick on Eve radio now?

Soul fierce
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:29:00 - [11429]
 

Read the hole topic. Amazing. Go on people. You have my support.

Obviously P understands only when they loose money.

I speculate that Hilmar [P] is one of the responsible for the big financial crisis in Island so he needs to gather some extra money to pay back.

Way to go my friend, way to go!!!

Rumplefink
Posted - 2011.06.27 00:29:00 - [11430]
 

I monocled what you did there!


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