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Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:04:00 - [11341]
 

No customers, no company. CCP you are soon out of the first. And that means...

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:05:00 - [11342]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 23:02:51
So where did this waver of CCP apologists come from all the sudden. Where were they the last 5 days?'

DID CCP hire a PR firm to do damage control and had a bunch of them start up accounts to post on the forums.

Id laugh about the tinfoil hat, but is has been done by other companies in the past. OR is it sony doing Damage control now?




Making PR contracts takes time after all. And their responses and arguments are awfully familiar aren't they? So I'm still thinking the sell out isn't any work of fiction.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:06:00 - [11343]
 

Originally by: Silvana Trada
Originally by: Saska Samar
Edited by: Saska Samar on 26/06/2011 22:48:55
Originally by: Silvana Trada
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

You really need to watch this, it is quite long but gives great insite as to what is happening here.

One of the major differences is that I don't remember a player survey asking what we want. Sure we have the CSM but really they are just listening to the small percentage of players are vocal enough to speak up. What about the 1000's that are not? CCP, you need to put out a survey similar to EAs and publish the results. I for one would be really interested in seeing them.

I hope they watch the video and if their data tells them to do something, well then it shall be done. I can only hope the data says don't.

Silvana Trada


Really? Maybe it will work if half the Eve community are so stupid Rolling Eyes

Just for you lets repost the same points


Quote:

BF Heroes is a free to play game with revenue items

Eve is a paid for game which wants to suck more money out of it's players

TL;DR you are a moron or a dev alt. Possibly both



Quote:
I guess we'll see in a decent amount of time who the moron is. To think that ppl won't spend real money in cash shop just because they already pay a subscription kind of makes you the moron since it's happening already.



Quote:
You're still the idiot. Read this back to yourself 'It shows that the business model works'. Now think 'are the business models the same'.

The answer is no. Therefore your statement is moronic.

Paying $20 dollars a month for game changing items is acceptable to 5% of BF Hero gamers.... how many Eve games will pay $15 + $20 per month?

Some will pay as they do now. Most will not. People will leave. People will join when Space Barbie is released. The game may go on. But comparing the two games is stupid as they are not on the same pricing structure.




I agree with you...lol Make EVE free to play if you incorporate an ingame store CCP.

ST






That will happen, once the subscription rate plumets and then they will either raise the subscription fees to cover or go F2P and raise the prices in the NEX store.

I cannot wait for that scenario to pan out.


RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:07:00 - [11344]
 

Originally by: Benri Konpaku
Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 23:02:51
So where did this waver of CCP apologists come from all the sudden. Where were they the last 5 days?'

DID CCP hire a PR firm to do damage control and had a bunch of them start up accounts to post on the forums.

Id laugh about the tinfoil hat, but is has been done by other companies in the past. OR is it sony doing Damage control now?




Making PR contracts takes time after all. And their responses and arguments are awfully familiar aren't they? So I'm still thinking the sell out isn't any work of fiction.


Yeah the arguments are all like a script. And very clearly fail when they try to argue back against peoples points.

Vherkin
Amarr
War Cake
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:07:00 - [11345]
 

Edited by: Vherkin on 26/06/2011 23:24:57
Edited by: Vherkin on 26/06/2011 23:10:10
Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Silvana Trada
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

You really need to watch this, it is quite long but gives great insite as to what is happening here.



Eve online is different on alteast one account:
Battle of Heroes is Free to Play, Eve, each player pay alteast one account. That already nearly as much as the median price of their paying costumer.

And you see, i play Team Fortress 2 and still love it even with micro-transaction.
One reason: I bought tf2 in the orange box at is launch. It cost me around 10$, maybe 15$... in four year.
Eve online, i've bought it, after a year, i've got a second account. In nearly 4 years, the game cost me around 1000$.

If i wanted micro-transaction, i would have not pay you 1000$ ccp. I would have paid a free to play.
I would have spent that money on TF2 for exemple. Atleast they are honest about it.

But i didn't want to play tf2 as my main enjoyment, i didn't want to play a free to play. Not that i haven't tryed mind you. But it alway felt wrong to me even if in the end, i would spent less than i did for eve.

I love subscription that permit me to access everything in a game. That why im on eve.
If you had raised the subscription fee by 5$, i would have still stayed with you.
Even if you openly declared that 5$ was not for eve but to expand on other buiseness opportunity i would have defended you like a little fanboy.
Even when you announced vanity item i still defended you. I could understand wanting to make people who use Walk in station pay for it.

But now ccp i can't defend you anymore.
If you need money that badly just tell us, im sure we will find a way.
Hell, if it come down to this i would prefer to donate you extra money than having item who give advantage on sale.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:07:00 - [11346]
 


Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:08:00 - [11347]
 

Originally by: Zverofaust
Since when was a privately-owned company a democracy?


Since when are customers slaves?

Pantorus Necraliss
Minmatar
Giza'Msafara
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:08:00 - [11348]
 

- Every ships coming from a direct ARUM --> Vanity Ship will be ganked, whatever will be the cost
- Every player buying SP with ARUM will be baned
- Every ship hauling gold amo will be ganked and wreck destroyed
- Every no-vanity item will be countered

We are in a Sand-box, and we are the sand !

Jimmy Duce
Chaotic Tranquility
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:09:00 - [11349]
 

Quote:

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?






Greed, is so distructive...



All of this could have been avoided... I hope it isn't too late as Eve has been the best game ever...

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:10:00 - [11350]
 

Originally by: RougeOperator
Originally by: Benri Konpaku
Originally by: RougeOperator
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 23:02:51
So where did this waver of CCP apologists come from all the sudden. Where were they the last 5 days?'

DID CCP hire a PR firm to do damage control and had a bunch of them start up accounts to post on the forums.

Id laugh about the tinfoil hat, but is has been done by other companies in the past. OR is it sony doing Damage control now?




Just like the idiot in this post right here is trying to do!

PR or Dev alt argues the predictable

Making PR contracts takes time after all. And their responses and arguments are awfully familiar aren't they? So I'm still thinking the sell out isn't any work of fiction.


Yeah the arguments are all like a script. And very clearly fail when they try to argue back against peoples points.

Gulliver Rex
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:11:00 - [11351]
 

Don't trust the Japanese: Don't trust them CCP !

Kamelee
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:13:00 - [11352]
 

Edited by: Kamelee on 26/06/2011 23:17:51
Holy #%^@, last time I saw this much of a back lash was back when a certain MMO that is shutting down at the end of this year, launched a certain update.

And Look at what happened to that game's subscriber count? Dropped like a rock. Not only that the entire company has been permanently tainted by their actions all those years ago. They destroyed the core element of the game, thus ruining it. All because of greed and a misunderstanding of their consumer base. The developers of SWG had a warning for the industry. Listen to your original player base, you will not just magically gain another player base to replace them.

You are on this path CCP, better double check that map you are following before it's leads you over a cliff.

diaufop
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:14:00 - [11353]
 


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:14:00 - [11354]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 23:15:48


http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/26/eve-evolved-the-day-that-eve-online-died-page-2/

"Following the release of Fearless and the renewed worry over gameplay-affecting microtransactions, players began to ask one question over and over again. In massive yellow letters all over the forum, players repeatedly asked whether CCP was going to add gameplay-affecting microtransactions to EVE. This should have been a simple question with an existing answer -- CCP had already reversed a previous decision based on the promise of having no gameplay-affecting items."


HAHAH that was the question I started pages ago lol everybody just copied and pasted it and it went VIRAL lol

I made the press yay!

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:19:00 - [11355]
 


Mercedes Bens
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:19:00 - [11356]
 

Originally by: Loredona LaPrad
CCP is in major damage control right now. But there can only be one fix for this issue and that is for Hilmar Veigar Pétursson (CCP CEO) to resign !!!!!
His comments are not that of a CEO, especially when they directly attack the games community. Have him publicly apologize to the community in a pod cast, Massive EVE in-game mail, online blogs on all accounts and so forth and admit he is an ARSE-HOLE !!!! Then once he resigns, compensate all the players for his ignorant Fvck-Face comments about the community by giving three months of PLEX to each subscribed member, including active but cancelled accounts. Keep to their promise and not do to EVE what SOE, Blizzard and other companies have done to their games that eventually destroyed them.

I think Hilmars' Resignation would be a huge step in mending the relationship CCP has with its customers.

** EVERYONE PETITION CCP AND CALL FOR A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN CEO PETURSSON AND REQUEST THAT HE BE FORCED TO RESIGN OR FACE LOSING EVERY SUBSCRIBER THAT THEY HAVE**

***** CEO PETURSSON RESIGN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! *****




gotta say i completly agree....CEOs have been forced to resign over less issues then this...the guy came out and pretty much insulted the fanbase of his game...id like to see him either apologize or gtfo.

Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:19:00 - [11357]
 

the amount of publicity from this is going to be HUGE for CCP. The eve-idiots will calm down and EVERYONE will know who CCP is and what they do.

****ing brilliant!!!!

seeseelia
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:19:00 - [11358]
 

Originally by: Miilla


I cannot wait until the new kind of greifer pwns u into a tear bucket with their wallet buying Flying Golden Geese with 500% damage bonuses



Meh. I won't be around if people can pay to win like that.

Pay to win is NOT an inevitability. I am 100% against that.

But paying for certain advantages that do NOT affect the economic balance of the EVE universe probably are.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:20:00 - [11359]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 23:24:15
Originally by: seeseelia
Originally by: Miilla


I cannot wait until the new kind of greifer pwns u into a tear bucket with their wallet buying Flying Golden Geese with 500% damage bonuses



Meh. I won't be around if people can pay to win like that.

Pay to win is NOT an inevitability. I am 100% against that.

But paying for certain advantages that do NOT affect the economic balance of the EVE universe probably are.




Keep clicking those heels Dorothy, keep repeating that to yourself... You may end up back in Kansas.

"But paying for certain advantages that do NOT affect the economic balance of the EVE universe probably are." <-- most ridiculous statement ever.

Arvir Aris
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:22:00 - [11360]
 

Originally by: seeseelia
Originally by: Miilla


I cannot wait until the new kind of greifer pwns u into a tear bucket with their wallet buying Flying Golden Geese with 500% damage bonuses



Meh. I won't be around if people can pay to win like that.

Pay to win is NOT an inevitability. I am 100% against that.

But paying for certain advantages that do NOT affect the economic balance of the EVE universe probably are.



Wake up.

Shinichi Hakeda
Gallente
Tides Of War
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:24:00 - [11361]
 

Edited by: Shinichi Hakeda on 26/06/2011 23:35:33
I feel.....Sadness, dissapointment, and hope. A very small tickle right on the taint, but hope nonetheless. I re-subbed recently but this has just shot my interest level right in the foot.

I "hope" that no one "CCP" is so dense that they will beat Eve with the SWG stick.

If it can happen to the Star wars franchise, that has some of the most devoted, crazy loyal fanbases in the world *read people going nucking futz in the theatre's at the premier's of the newest movies, breaking into spontaneous lightsabre fights in the hallways*.....if a franchise with fans as ludicrously devoted as that can be driven away from SWG, it can certainly happen to you as well.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Can they stop themselves?

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:26:00 - [11362]
 


One thing I don't get about CCP is for all the "research" with "outside professionals" that CCP has done to get metrics on the Microtransactions in Eve succeeding, howcome CCP are in PANIC MODE and calling the CSM up to Iceland and trying to QUELL our ANGER?

If they are just "staying the course" and we are "very predictable" they shouldn't have to bother, and just deploy the system and items full speed ahead.

Seems CCP was talking out their buttocks again.


Popsikle
Minmatar
Caffeine Commodities Company
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:29:00 - [11363]
 

Originally by: Miilla

One thing I don't get about CCP is for all the "research" with "outside professionals" that CCP has done to get metrics on the Microtransactions in Eve succeeding, howcome CCP are in PANIC MODE and calling the CSM up to Iceland and trying to QUELL our ANGER?

If they are just "staying the course" and we are "very predictable" they shouldn't have to bother, and just deploy the system and items full speed ahead.

Seems CCP was talking out their buttocks again.




They are not doing that, nor should they. They are calling the CSM up to explain to them why they did what they did, and what the plan to do with it, and how to best continue down the path without ****ing too many people off.

That is EXACTLY what they should be doing. Eve need's MT, it needs more cash flow to progress, CCP should get that any way they can imho. I also dont see the difference between they way it is now and the way it would be if eve was F2P like WoT or something. People just buy whatever they want anyway don't they?

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:30:00 - [11364]
 

Edited by: Vandrion on 26/06/2011 23:30:39
I believe this is what CCP will become should Hilmar keep milking the cash cows:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:31:00 - [11365]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 23:35:28

Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Miilla

One thing I don't get about CCP is for all the "research" with "outside professionals" that CCP has done to get metrics on the Microtransactions in Eve succeeding, howcome CCP are in PANIC MODE and calling the CSM up to Iceland and trying to QUELL our ANGER?

If they are just "staying the course" and we are "very predictable" they shouldn't have to bother, and just deploy the system and items full speed ahead.

Seems CCP was talking out their buttocks again.




They are not doing that, nor should they. They are calling the CSM up to explain to them why they did what they did, and what the plan to do with it, and how to best continue down the path without ****ing too many people off.

That is EXACTLY what they should be doing. Eve need's MT, it needs more cash flow to progress, CCP should get that any way they can imho. I also dont see the difference between they way it is now and the way it would be if eve was F2P like WoT or something. People just buy whatever they want anyway don't they?




The "cash flow to progress" as you put it isn't for Eve, it is for CCP yes, more specifically, it is for WoD. Keep up will ya.

Eve is reaching its life time. It is 8 years old. Eve is a test bed for Carbon and MT's that will be pushed into WoD, Eve is niche, it is TINEY, the Fundmaster for WoD, and WoD will get the BIG ATTENTION and FOCUS by CCP because it is their WoW. MASS MARKET which Eve NEVER WILL BE.

When I subscribe to Eve; I realise that it is TINY, NICHE and what it is. However, I do not want to be mugged while playing it by either Wallet Players or CCP.


Kamelee
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:34:00 - [11366]
 

Originally by: Popsikle


They are not doing that, nor should they. They are calling the CSM up to explain to them why they did what they did, and what the plan to do with it, and how to best continue down the path without ****ing too many people off.

That is EXACTLY what they should be doing. Eve need's MT, it needs more cash flow to progress, CCP should get that any way they can imho. I also dont see the difference between they way it is now and the way it would be if eve was F2P like WoT or something. People just buy whatever they want anyway don't they?


1. There is no way to best continue down this path. It's like saying what is the best way to continue down a path littered with landmines. The only answer is you just don't go down that path.

2. EvE does not need MT, CCP has overextended themselves with DUST and WoD being thrown in with EVE. EVE Online easily pays for itself.

3. How much is a PR firm paying you? Or are you just this dense usually?

seeseelia
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:34:00 - [11367]
 

Originally by: Miilla


Keep clicking those heels Dorothy, keep repeating that to yourself... You may end up back in Kansas.



I'm past caring, really. This entire, gigantic clusterfrak has soured me somewhat to the point of me actually cancelling my subscription. I don't need to click my heels, I've already done that.

But there is a path. It means meeting in the middle. It's too soon to know which arguments will ultimately prevail. I trust the CSM have our backs.

I don't care about non-vanity items anymore. My question is now:

Do you agree not to introduce any economy-breaking AUR items into the EVE universe?




Azelor Delaria
Caldari
We Are So Troubled Everyone Runs Screaming
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:35:00 - [11368]
 

Quote:
The tone and demeanor of my blog on Friday did not correctly portray my emotions towards the community and player base at large. I love and respect EVE and its community on a level that's hard to really do justice in words. However I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.


Butter 'em up...you're learning! Play on their feelings as the opener, then go in for the kill!

Quote:
For that I am sorry.


No. No you are not, and I'l explain why in a second.

Quote:
Having cooled off a bit and taken a solemn look at the situation, I see it's clear we need to strengthen the deep mutual trust and respect that's been so unique and descriptive of our relationship. There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.


Your perception? YOUR perception? It's very clear that your perception is so out-of-touch with the general community that to say you are lacking common sense would be a vast understatement.

You have been asked one simple question. I won't repeat it, because if you were any type of PR representative or community moderator, you'd be able to figure it out (hint: it's in large, bold, yellow letters!). But you have sidestepped the issue at every corner. Your public announcements have not touched on the real question everyone asks. You instead ignore us and offer run-around responses to us.

So no, you're not sorry. If you were, you'd be banging on your CEO's door at this very moment and telling him to put down the beer and answer the damn customers.

I have always supported that you don't owe us anything. But in this, I am pulling a complete 180*. You owe us an explanation, because what you say and what you do will determine your fate as a company.

Quote:
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns, and to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.


Why? You've shown us time and again that the CSM means nothing to you. You show them what's going ot happen and that's it. This is nothing but an attempt to pull the wool over our eyes. We aren't fooled anymore. The CSM is just a vacation to Iceland and nothing more.

Quote:
The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE. Other issues may be brought up and we urge you to contact the CSM with your comments and concerns so that they may be addressed at this session.


"Should be". What you're saying is, either they agree or not, but it won't matter. EVerything you have said up to this point has been that we can't trust you, and the playerbase means nothing. Fine. But don't **** on my leg and tell me it's raining.

Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.


What about other items? Like that "Golden Scorpion"? Denying one thing does not mean you are denying other things will be sold for P2W.

Quote:
Due to the volatility of the topic we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.


Translation: TROLOLOLOL I CAN'T HEAR YOU AT ALL NOW GO BACK TO WHINING.

Kraundewr
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:36:00 - [11369]
 

Has anyone stopped to think about the possibility that CCP is doing this on purpose?

CCP is "calling a CSM" emeregency meeting to make the players happy. This is perfect.

The next step is reducing prices and making apologies. This in turn will still allow them to sell things for cash, but also maintain their loyal fanbase.

This is all about drama my friends, welcome to the world of "As CCP turns".

If you think anything else, your fooling yourself.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:36:00 - [11370]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 23:32:27
Originally by: Popsikle
Originally by: Miilla

One thing I don't get about CCP is for all the "research" with "outside professionals" that CCP has done to get metrics on the Microtransactions in Eve succeeding, howcome CCP are in PANIC MODE and calling the CSM up to Iceland and trying to QUELL our ANGER?

If they are just "staying the course" and we are "very predictable" they shouldn't have to bother, and just deploy the system and items full speed ahead.

Seems CCP was talking out their buttocks again.




They are not doing that, nor should they. They are calling the CSM up to explain to them why they did what they did, and what the plan to do with it, and how to best continue down the path without ****ing too many people off.

That is EXACTLY what they should be doing. Eve need's MT, it needs more cash flow to progress, CCP should get that any way they can imho. I also dont see the difference between they way it is now and the way it would be if eve was F2P like WoT or something. People just buy whatever they want anyway don't they?




The "cash flow to progress" as you put it isn't for Eve, it is for CCP yes, more specifically, it is for WoD. Keep up will ya.

Eve is reaching its life time. It is 8 years old. Eve is a test bed for Carbon and MT's that will be pushed into WoD, Eve is niche, it is TINEY, the Fundmaster for WoD, and WoD will get the BIG ATTENTION and FOCUS by CCP because it is their WoW. MASS MARKET which Eve NEVER WILL BE.




Let me see if I understand you correctly...Do you want EVE to be a "test bed" as you call it ? Second question, do you mind EVE being a "test bed" Third question, do you want new technology to be introduced to EVE ?


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