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Saska Samar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:28:00 - [11311]
 

Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Saska Samar
Originally by: Angeliq

Originally by: Julian Kirov

Here's a presentation from the creators of BF:Heroes that explains why Hilmar gives no fcks about the forums.

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win




This is a very interesting presentation. Everyone should... MUST watch it!

This presentation will tell you why EVE Online WILL have a Cash Shop WITH GAME CHANGING ITEMS beyond vanity ones!! It shows that the business model works and why it will work in EVE too.




BF Heroes is a free to play game with revenue items

Eve is a paid for game which wants to suck more money out of it's players

TL;DR you are a moron or a dev alt. Possibly both


I guess we'll see in a decent amount of time who the moron is. To think that ppl won't spend real money in cash shop just because they already pay a subscription kind of makes you the moron since it's happening already.


You're still the idiot. Read this back to yourself 'It shows that the business model works'. Now think 'are the business models the same'.

The answer is no. Therefore your statement is moronic.

Paying $20 dollars a month for game changing items is acceptable to 5% of BF Hero gamers.... how many Eve games will pay $15 + $20 per month?

Some will pay as they do now. Most will not. People will leave. People will join when Space Barbie is released. The game may go on. But comparing the two games is stupid as they are not on the same pricing structure.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:28:00 - [11312]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 22:30:35

For all the "research" with "outside professionals" that CCP has done to get metrics on the Microtransactions in Eve succeeding

How come CCP are in PANIC MODE and calling the CSM up to Iceland and trying to QUELL our ANGER?

If they are just "staying the course" and we are "very predictable" they shouldn't have to bother, and just deploy the system and items full speed ahead.

Sounds more his email was huff puff and hot air blowing about rather than fact.

Seems CCP DOES NEED US more than they let on.


Khul Drukath
Maelstrom Crew
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:29:00 - [11313]
 

I'm happy that CCP have taken heed of the protests and decided to talk with the CSM so that the player's concerns may be put across. I don't know what affect it will have, but I am happy to give CCP the benefit of the doubt that a proper discussion will be had.

However I believe that what is talked about should be shared with the entire community and not just a select few. I am happy for them to be my voice, but not my ears.

Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:30:00 - [11314]
 

I will never support a game that I have to pay a subscription for, if it has content that can only be accessed by someone spending real life money on it.

The EVE I signed up for is dead.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:30:00 - [11315]
 

Originally by: Kendra Wilkinson

spew



Whatever FUD packer

Raven God
Texas Inc.
THE SPACE P0LICE
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:31:00 - [11316]
 

Edited by: Raven God on 26/06/2011 22:31:42
This emergency meeting better be something good or CCP is done.

seeseelia
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:31:00 - [11317]
 

First off, I am a player who has cancelled their account until this is resolved (although it'll be September before it lapses -- my three-month renewal kicked in on the day Incarna arrived). I am totally prepared to draw a line under my relationship with this universe if necessary. I would obviously prefer not to. This game is unique and I love it to bits. I don't want to see it ruined.

I have read the dev blog. It's a lot better than the previous one (which I cited in my reason for cancellation), and I find the tone a lot more encouraging. However, I think it's clear that game-changing, non-vanity items are certainly on the cards -- and probably inevitable.

Thinking about this some more though, I feel a definite attraction to some potential uses for Aurum that whilst arguably game-altering are not economy-breaking. I think that this is an important distinction, and would enable a "no play-to-win" policy that benefits everyone. I don't want to be able to buy super-buffed ships or super-ammo (although "rainbow tracers" that can be applied to *any* ammo might be appealing). I'm a lot less incensed by the idea of buying skill points, as long as they were fairly calculated based on your attribute map and capped at the maximum you'd get for 1 month of game time. Faction standing adjustment would be a definite "no", as would be paying for functionality that used to exist but no longer does. But there's a part of me that's deeply attracted to the idea of an buying a special jovian-implant that insta-pops anyone who podkills me in 1.0 (for instance), especially if implemented as an option in the clone-bay (the cost could exponentially increase based on it's effectiveness within each security band, and not available at all in nullsec).

I'm not saying that these are things I want per-se, but I can't see how they would economically ruin the game -- just add a little spice into an already compelling environment. Everyone benefits as there's no way of knowing who has the advantage (displaying/not displaying a vanity item in your portrait could either be a massive hint, or an elaborate double-bluff), and possibly circumventable by popping with a minor-alt in a Velator. Another unknown to keep us on our toes. And it's another revenue stream for CCP. It's an area where there's room for mischievous creativity and might even prove to be be a net positive.

You could argue that something like this is game-breaking, but is it really? It's something new, doesn't confer an advantage in combat and adds an additional level of intrigue. I'm prepared to take a step back and see what happens. It just needs to be done carefully.

I'm not going to reinstate my auto-renew just yet, but if a decent balance can be found then I can certainly see myself doing so, and even (possibly) taking advantage of a few things if I'm feeling particularly flush during a particular month/hulkageddon.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:33:00 - [11318]
 

Originally by: seeseelia
First off, I am a player who has cancelled their account until this is resolved (although it'll be September before it lapses -- my three-month renewal kicked in on the day Incarna arrived). I am totally prepared to draw a line under my relationship with this universe if necessary. I would obviously prefer not to. This game is unique and I love it to bits. I don't want to see it ruined.

I have read the dev blog. It's a lot better than the previous one (which I cited in my reason for cancellation), and I find the tone a lot more encouraging. However, I think it's clear that game-changing, non-vanity items are certainly on the cards -- and probably inevitable.

Thinking about this some more though, I feel a definite attraction to some potential uses for Aurum that whilst arguably game-altering are not economy-breaking. I think that this is an important distinction, and would enable a "no play-to-win" policy that benefits everyone. I don't want to be able to buy super-buffed ships or super-ammo (although "rainbow tracers" that can be applied to *any* ammo might be appealing). I'm a lot less incensed by the idea of buying skill points, as long as they were fairly calculated based on your attribute map and capped at the maximum you'd get for 1 month of game time. Faction standing adjustment would be a definite "no", as would be paying for functionality that used to exist but no longer does. But there's a part of me that's deeply attracted to the idea of an buying a special jovian-implant that insta-pops anyone who podkills me in 1.0 (for instance), especially if implemented as an option in the clone-bay (the cost could exponentially increase based on it's effectiveness within each security band, and not available at all in nullsec).

I'm not saying that these are things I want per-se, but I can't see how they would economically ruin the game -- just add a little spice into an already compelling environment. Everyone benefits as there's no way of knowing who has the advantage (displaying/not displaying a vanity item in your portrait could either be a massive hint, or an elaborate double-bluff), and possibly circumventable by popping with a minor-alt in a Velator. Another unknown to keep us on our toes. And it's another revenue stream for CCP. It's an area where there's room for mischievous creativity and might even prove to be be a net positive.

You could argue that something like this is game-breaking, but is it really? It's something new, doesn't confer an advantage in combat and adds an additional level of intrigue. I'm prepared to take a step back and see what happens. It just needs to be done carefully.

I'm not going to reinstate my auto-renew just yet, but if a decent balance can be found then I can certainly see myself doing so, and even (possibly) taking advantage of a few things if I'm feeling particularly flush during a particular month/hulkageddon.





I totally agree, we should wait it out until it is too late then cry then. Absolutely. No sense in crying now over it, just wait until it happens.


Arakazzi
Caldari
Epsilon Inc
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:33:00 - [11319]
 

Another day another riot and still nothing from CCP. Although the did manage to very quickly squash any rumours regarding the Sony and Blizzard. Is there a reason they quickly crushed those rumours, stock market rules or something? I've also heard that CCP are in negotiations with some other developers, but that came from the same guy that said Sony was buying CCP so it's probably nonsense... or is it?

Silvana Trada
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:37:00 - [11320]
 

http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

You really need to watch this, it is quite long but gives great insite as to what is happening here.

One of the major differences is that I don't remember a player survey asking what we want. Sure we have the CSM but really they are just listening to the small percentage of players are vocal enough to speak up. What about the 1000's that are not? CCP, you need to put out a survey similar to EAs and publish the results. I for one would be really interested in seeing them.

I hope they watch the video and if their data tells them to do something, well then it shall be done. I can only hope the data says don't.

Silvana Trada

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:38:00 - [11321]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 26/06/2011 22:43:24
Originally by: Silvana Trada
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

You really need to watch this, it is quite long but gives great insite as to what is happening here.

One of the major differences is that I don't remember a player survey asking what we want. Sure we have the CSM but really they are just listening to the small percentage of players are vocal enough to speak up. What about the 1000's that are not? CCP, you need to put out a survey similar to EAs and publish the results. I for one would be really interested in seeing them.

I hope they watch the video and if their data tells them to do something, well then it shall be done. I can only hope the data says don't.

Silvana Trada




Yeah put out a player survey CCP, I love skewing survey results.

PS: I want golden geese with 100% damage bonuses in the NEX store. k thanks!
PS2: My amarr faction standings are kinda low now :( I hope I can boost them with the NEX store, (those pesky data centers only allow a single use forever :( )


Gulliver Rex
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:39:00 - [11322]
 

What I never understood is, why is it possible for a Brutor to circle around Emperor Family Academy in his Hurricane!?

What kind of an emperor is that!?

What, did the Brutor pay to win, pay to circle? What is going on?

I am not sure whose idea that was, but s/he should pay a visit to Tobias from Habitual Euthanasia for a long overdue lesson in Logic 101!

Reducuolous!


Mater Dolorosa
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:40:00 - [11323]
 

CCP no longer want to make the best MMO, they only aim the 50% margin...

That's all folks...

Saska Samar
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:47:00 - [11324]
 

Edited by: Saska Samar on 26/06/2011 22:48:55
Originally by: Silvana Trada
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

You really need to watch this, it is quite long but gives great insite as to what is happening here.

One of the major differences is that I don't remember a player survey asking what we want. Sure we have the CSM but really they are just listening to the small percentage of players are vocal enough to speak up. What about the 1000's that are not? CCP, you need to put out a survey similar to EAs and publish the results. I for one would be really interested in seeing them.

I hope they watch the video and if their data tells them to do something, well then it shall be done. I can only hope the data says don't.

Silvana Trada


Really? Maybe it will work if half the Eve community are so stupid Rolling Eyes

Just for you lets repost the same points


Quote:

BF Heroes is a free to play game with revenue items

Eve is a paid for game which wants to suck more money out of it's players

TL;DR you are a moron or a dev alt. Possibly both



Quote:
I guess we'll see in a decent amount of time who the moron is. To think that ppl won't spend real money in cash shop just because they already pay a subscription kind of makes you the moron since it's happening already.



Quote:
You're still the idiot. Read this back to yourself 'It shows that the business model works'. Now think 'are the business models the same'.

The answer is no. Therefore your statement is moronic.

Paying $20 dollars a month for game changing items is acceptable to 5% of BF Hero gamers.... how many Eve games will pay $15 + $20 per month?

Some will pay as they do now. Most will not. People will leave. People will join when Space Barbie is released. The game may go on. But comparing the two games is stupid as they are not on the same pricing structure.

Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:49:00 - [11325]
 

lookit dis thred man

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:49:00 - [11326]
 


For all the "research" with "outside professionals" that CCP has done to get metrics on the Microtransactions in Eve succeeding

How come CCP are in PANIC MODE and calling the CSM up to Iceland and trying to QUELL our ANGER?

If they are just "staying the course" and we are "very predictable" they shouldn't have to bother, and just deploy the system and items full speed ahead.

Sounds more his email was huff puff and hot air blowing about rather than fact.


Adrian Dixon
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:50:00 - [11327]
 

Microtransactions will consume CCP, all thier development time will go into new vanity items only, all thier promotions will go into selling the vanity items. The game will suffer because the devs attention will be in the wrong place... Selling vanity items pusing vanity items. Every time the vanity items take a dip in sales the devs will be called into in crisis meetings and asked to dream up new ways to maker players part with thier money.

This is another reason why I would like to see the NeX store close and Microtransactions abandoned for good. No Vanity Items, No Pay to Win.

Loredona LaPrad
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:55:00 - [11328]
 

CCP is in major damage control right now. But there can only be one fix for this issue and that is for Hilmar Veigar Pétursson (CCP CEO) to resign !!!!!
His comments are not that of a CEO, especially when they directly attack the games community. Have him publicly apologize to the community in a pod cast, Massive EVE in-game mail, online blogs on all accounts and so forth and admit he is an ARSE-HOLE !!!! Then once he resigns, compensate all the players for his ignorant Fvck-Face comments about the community by giving three months of PLEX to each subscribed member, including active but cancelled accounts. Keep to their promise and not do to EVE what SOE, Blizzard and other companies have done to their games that eventually destroyed them.

I think Hilmars' Resignation would be a huge step in mending the relationship CCP has with its customers.

** EVERYONE PETITION CCP AND CALL FOR A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN CEO PETURSSON AND REQUEST THAT HE BE FORCED TO RESIGN OR FACE LOSING EVERY SUBSCRIBER THAT THEY HAVE**

***** CEO PETURSSON RESIGN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! *****


Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:56:00 - [11329]
 

I'm still wondering about the Sony deal...

Slozhenitsyn
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:56:00 - [11330]
 

and i also hate cq

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:58:00 - [11331]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 22:59:42
Originally by: 52 MonocIes
Good luck CCP Pann, I wish you and your child all the best. In the end we're all just weak humans at the mercy of fate.

I'm also sorry that CCP used your misfortune in a psychological-warfare maneuver against it's customers. Not only trying to excuse themselves from not answering the question most customers were asking for 2 days ("Pann wasn't able to answer your questions, hence the delay?" You kidding us, CCP?), but also trying to soften us by inducing compassion towards a hurt child and hoping that this will decrease our rightful rage and make at least some of us give demands we have in regards to the bussiness relationship we - customers have with ccp.

To hide yourself behind a hurt child is the lowest of the low, CCP, you're bastards.

There is really no reason for a company to release details of a personal life of it's employees. You don't do that, you don't mix personal life of your employees into the argument about you conducting your business in a way that is understood as unprofessional by most of civilized world. And frankly, this argument is all this forums contain for the last few days.

What should have happened is someone else at CCP should took over and _at_most_ state CCP Pann is unavailable due to personal matters, or not state anything at all, just put someone else in charge of the thread.

End of line.


This post sums it up nicely.

Originally by: Benri Konpaku
I'm still wondering about the Sony deal...


Why wonder they lie to our faces. And use dirty tactics for PR.

They prob are in talks right now and this scandal is hurting them.

Algathas
Minmatar
The Revenge of Auntie Freeze
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:59:00 - [11332]
 

Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Very disappointing. So we already pay you a fee per month for this game and its features, and now you want us to pay you again on top of that.

Not to mention that clothes will cost more than a whole ship. If an article of clothing costs more isk than even an executioner it will be laughable at best.

And for those who think that it will give more $ to develop the things in eve we have been wanting think again. The $ will only fund devs to make more of this utter crap instead of fixing / adding core features to the game. Why should they update and add things for "free" when they can **** you for more cash by making clothes with their time. This is already evident with the last updates. Nerf this, screw that, bunch of updates with little thought or effort put into them, while their devs are spending time proudly making clothes to sell.

If they really wanted to make clothes a great system, they would make a way to manufacture them with patterns, PI textiles, dyes, etc. The same with painting your ship - paints could be manufactured, industrialists could paint ships, etc. Instead were left with disappointment.

seeseelia
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:01:00 - [11333]
 

Originally by: Miilla


I totally agree, we should wait it out until it is too late then cry then. Absolutely. No sense in crying now over it, just wait until it happens.




Who said anything about crying? There is the possibility of a middle ground. The economy is EVE's most important aspect, and this is the most important thing to fight to preserve.

If it ****es off a few griefers into leaving? Well I doubt anyone will be too upset about that.

"Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out."

Zverofaust
Gallente
Ascetic Virtues
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:01:00 - [11334]
 

Since when was a privately-owned company a democracy?

RougeOperator
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [11335]
 

Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 23:03:42
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 23:03:32
Edited by: RougeOperator on 26/06/2011 23:02:51
So where did this waver of CCP apologists come from all the sudden. Where were they the last 5 days?'

DID CCP hire a PR firm to do damage control and had a bunch of them start up accounts to post on the forums.

Id laugh about the tinfoil hat, but is has been done by other companies in the past. OR is it sony doing Damage control now?

Originally by: Zverofaust
Since when was a privately-owned company a democracy?


When customers vote with their wallets.


Astria Wren
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [11336]
 

Good luck CSM! :)

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [11337]
 

Originally by: Loredona LaPrad
CCP is in major damage control right now. But there can only be one fix for this issue and that is for Hilmar Veigar Pétursson (CCP CEO) to resign !!!!!
His comments are not that of a CEO, especially when they directly attack the games community. Have him publicly apologize to the community in a pod cast, Massive EVE in-game mail, online blogs on all accounts and so forth and admit he is an ARSE-HOLE !!!! Then once he resigns, compensate all the players for his ignorant Fvck-Face comments about the community by giving three months of PLEX to each subscribed member, including active but cancelled accounts. Keep to their promise and not do to EVE what SOE, Blizzard and other companies have done to their games that eventually destroyed them.

I think Hilmars' Resignation would be a huge step in mending the relationship CCP has with its customers.

** EVERYONE PETITION CCP AND CALL FOR A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE IN CEO PETURSSON AND REQUEST THAT HE BE FORCED TO RESIGN OR FACE LOSING EVERY SUBSCRIBER THAT THEY HAVE**

***** CEO PETURSSON RESIGN !!!!!!!!!!!!!! *****




Overreact much?

While I'm one of the people who canceled their subscriptions in protest and will keep it that way until we have answers, I really think this "CEO RESIGN!!11 rabblerabble" is too much. I mean who would replace him? You? Serious question here. Even if you cross that bridge somehow, how do you know you'll get a better one...and most importantly, is this the reaction we want to give over something like this?
I for one can't support an attitude like this.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [11338]
 

Originally by: seeseelia
Originally by: Miilla


I totally agree, we should wait it out until it is too late then cry then. Absolutely. No sense in crying now over it, just wait until it happens.




Who said anything about crying? There is the possibility of a middle ground. The economy is EVE's most important aspect, and this is the most important thing to fight to preserve.

If it ****es off a few griefers into leaving? Well I doubt anyone will be too upset about that.

"Don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out."




I cannot wait until the new kind of greifer pwns u into a tear bucket with their wallet buying Flying Golden Geese with 500% damage bonuses

San Severina
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:02:00 - [11339]
 

too long

my care factor now = 0

was a great game but I'm looking forward to life without EvE.

Fly safe guys - in RL Very Happy

Silvana Trada
Posted - 2011.06.26 23:03:00 - [11340]
 

Originally by: Saska Samar
Edited by: Saska Samar on 26/06/2011 22:48:55
Originally by: Silvana Trada
http://www.slideshare.net/bcousins/paying-to-win

You really need to watch this, it is quite long but gives great insite as to what is happening here.

One of the major differences is that I don't remember a player survey asking what we want. Sure we have the CSM but really they are just listening to the small percentage of players are vocal enough to speak up. What about the 1000's that are not? CCP, you need to put out a survey similar to EAs and publish the results. I for one would be really interested in seeing them.

I hope they watch the video and if their data tells them to do something, well then it shall be done. I can only hope the data says don't.

Silvana Trada


Really? Maybe it will work if half the Eve community are so stupid Rolling Eyes

Just for you lets repost the same points


Quote:

BF Heroes is a free to play game with revenue items

Eve is a paid for game which wants to suck more money out of it's players

TL;DR you are a moron or a dev alt. Possibly both



Quote:
I guess we'll see in a decent amount of time who the moron is. To think that ppl won't spend real money in cash shop just because they already pay a subscription kind of makes you the moron since it's happening already.



Quote:
You're still the idiot. Read this back to yourself 'It shows that the business model works'. Now think 'are the business models the same'.

The answer is no. Therefore your statement is moronic.

Paying $20 dollars a month for game changing items is acceptable to 5% of BF Hero gamers.... how many Eve games will pay $15 + $20 per month?

Some will pay as they do now. Most will not. People will leave. People will join when Space Barbie is released. The game may go on. But comparing the two games is stupid as they are not on the same pricing structure.




I agree with you...lol Make EVE free to play if you incorporate an ingame store CCP.

ST


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