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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:00:00 - [11041]
 

Edited by: Valari Nala Zena on 26/06/2011 19:06:16
Originally by: Gypsy RoseLee
Originally by: CCP Zulu
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


Lets get something straight: There is a miles wide difference between "we don't plan to sell 'gold ammo' for Aurum" and what the players want to hear which is "we will NEVER sell 'gold ammo' for Aurum"

Keeping all three of my accounts as canceled until you quit skirting the real issue.


Exactly.

But then it's only about gold ammo, who said they can't make it any other color?

Kailithi
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:00:00 - [11042]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=934

Quote:
I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.


Translation:
I am so, SOOO angry that one our underpaid monkey coders leaked our newsletter because we flat out refused to listen to or take any notice of their experience or concerns.
(see http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm

Quote:
There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.


Translation:
How WE percieve it is this, we need MT for new jeans. Why can't you monkeys get that?

Quote:
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week


Translation:
Give us a week to butter up these toothless wonders (that we've ignored for so long) to see our views with an all expenses paid jolly to Iceland. Money talks!

ShockedAND FINALLY:Shocked
Quote:
to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.

The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE.


Orrrrr, to sum up:

FFS, someone snitched and we got caught with our pants down. We will bribe the CSM to see that we ARE going ahead with RTM so they might as well take a back-hander and help us smooth the transition in.

Let's be very clear on this.
HIS WORDS
"assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy."
"how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE"

And he ends with:
Quote:
we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.


Translation:
Give it a week, it all blows over we get our way. Jobs a done deal.

Kellaen
Samurai Salvaging
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 - [11043]
 

That devblog is weaker then the $1000 pants one.

Highlander20s
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 - [11044]
 

5 more days of shooting in jita then

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:02:00 - [11045]
 

Originally by: Kraxalious
Yeah, lets see those daddy credit card swiping teens manage 40+ corp pos on a regular basis or coordinate multi-alliance fleets to defend space lol.


Incarna *is* exactly the kind of game that will attract those credit card swiping teens. Walking in stations in nothing short of an attempt to sway players of FPS/FPA games to join Eve. They won't particularly care about the internet spaceships part of Eve online with the exception that the customers in their shops will be pod pilots, much in the same way that many current Eve players won't care about walking in stations.

Now, if we stop and think about what keeps these credit card swiping teens swiping their credit cards, it'll be microtransactions. That's how it works for other MMOs, right? Pretty shiny sparkly ponies (oh how ghey) and better looking boots and such. So, in order for CCP to truly attract the kind of player base they really want, which is *not* a bunch of educated older folks like us who can understand the complexities of the Eve universe, they have to offer pretty shiny sh*t.

In this way, CCP has, and if you've noticed those of you in Jita, truly already separated the station environment from the space environment (as in, they're entirely different processes and server clusters sharing a single database cluster). Hence the loss of ship spinning. Ship spinning is part of the 'space' environment running on the old 'space' codebase.

Incarna, however, is running on Carbon. Their new technology. Carbon was needed to provide Incarna, as the old 'space' environment is just that... old. They also needed a test-bed for Dust 514 and WoD and Eve makes the perfect testing ground for new technologies under the guise of new 'content'. Incarna was deployed so small (one room for all!) because they had never tested the Carbon technology Incarna is written in on a massive scale. Had they released the full WIS (which I'm clear is already done and simply in waiting) and people's video cards melted as they have, they'd have bled more customers. So, please, understand that Incarna is a completely different system from the space environment. This can be evidenced by the lag one experiences outside of Jita IV - 4 vs. inside the station. You used to be lagged both inside and out - since Incarna the inside is unaffected by the outside (as it should be for Incarna to work).

So you see, CCP is trying to capture more of the WoW crowd with Incarna. In fact, I would guess internal estimates probably come up with being able to double their subscribers by attracting players who may have an interest in the Incarna WIS aspects but have little to no interest in internet pew pew space ship games. CCP is trying to balance what will effectively be two entirely different games and styles of play under one banner.

Had CCP began with a handful of low priced ($1-$2) items, AUR would have taken off like a rocket ship and Incarna would have been proclaimed to be, at least somewhat, victorious. It would have generated the kind of buzz they needed to attract credit card swiping teens to Eve. Why they went down the 'vanity is good if you can afford it' road... beats the hell out of me. Stupid mistake? Bad research? Bold and inglorious ignorance of the industry and their current player base, the global downturn in the economy, the looming global depression? <shrug> We'll never really know.

In the end, all the spaceship pew pew people really need to know is if they're going to implement game mechanic changing items in the NeX to decide if we want to stick around. And perhaps that's the point. Perhaps internally CCP recognizes that they could possibly get many more subscribers if they ignore the internet spaceship game and focus on the ambulation game instead? Originally we all believed whatever they introduced in the stations were to be player made items through blueprints. Where are the blueprints for the monocle? You see where it's all going, don't you? We have our answer.

Cadela Fria
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:03:00 - [11046]
 

I guess I will be the first to say the recent blog by Zulu have temporarily made me go into "standby" mode instead of "protest" mode.

But one thing is certain, like many others, I want clear unambiguous answers with no room for any sort of alternate interpretation.
I guess I will also be the first to say I think it is entirely unhelpful that we insist on conspiracies about Sony, and what will "really" happen at the CSM meeting.
As the author of "God is not great", Christopher Hitchens, once said: We as a species are a pattern seeking animal, a good thing about us, and we prefer a conspiracy theory to no theory at all, a bad thing about us

Trying to suit the facts to fit the theory instead of trying to fit the theory to the facts, is wrong, and I won't do it.

Salicaz
Caldari
Wolfsbrigade
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 - [11047]
 

Oh, and since the blog they are mass locking new threads. So I'll try again in the thread they dare not lock..


Answer the big ****ing yellow question! Regardless what the soft ****es are saying, mentioning ammo only is not the answer it was dodging it!! Evil or Very Mad

Alrione
Black Lagoon Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 - [11048]
 

Originally by: Buzzmong
@Trebor Daehdoow, Seleene, Mittens and the rest of the CSM:

When you get to Iceland, state unequivocally that:

1) Doing things outside of the CSM knowing (Nex prices) or completely ignoring the CSM (last dev blog) is a massive no-no and not only undermines the entire point of the CSM, but upsets the playerbase even more.

2) Full removal of the NeX store is the only way to fully go back and make up for this sheer sh*tstorm and restore the trust of the playerbase due to it being the only way to remove shadow of P2W that will now loom over EvE (actions speak louder than words).

3) It should always have been Space->Hanger->(optional) Captains Quarters+WiS, and it needs to be implemented as such due to CCP's own lore. It's especially important due to the performance issues people have been having and the fact the release of CQ is only 25% complete. It's up to CCP to develop features in CQ/WiS that want to make us leave the pods (they are planning on this anyway)

4) Communication needs to be improved massively. The current rules about Dev's not being able to speak their minds needs to be chucked out the window and the rules about not speaking on topics they don't know relaxed so that people can at least put some blue bars and go "I'll find out for you from the proper scrum team".

5) The Playerbase needs concrete information on what CCP's plans are with Incarna and it's expansions, and *needs* to find out what CCP are doing to fix the big problems with the core spaceship game.

I'll EvEmail this as well to the CSM members as I suspect you'll miss this.


Just crossposting this for CSM or other eve players to see.
Also: subs are still canceled.

Hormus
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 - [11049]
 


Angeliq
Minmatar
Soimii Patriei
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 - [11050]
 

Originally by: Kailithi
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=934

Quote:
I let my frustration take charge of me, fueled by emotions that had built up due to a breach of trust we at CCP have been experiencing over the past few days. I know that sounds ironic considering those are the exact same feelings you have been having towards CCP.


Translation:
I am so, SOOO angry that one our underpaid monkey coders leaked our newsletter because we flat out refused to listen to or take any notice of their experience or concerns.
(see http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/CCP-Games-Reviews-E159347.htm

Quote:
There are certain questions you want answered and there isn't room for more error in our communication on those topics or our perception of the root causes.


Translation:
How WE percieve it is this, we need MT for new jeans. Why can't you monkeys get that?

Quote:
Therefore we have asked the CSM to join us in Iceland for an extraordinary meeting June 30th and July 1st to discuss the events of past week


Translation:
Give us a week to butter up these toothless wonders (that we've ignored for so long) to see our views with an all expenses paid jolly to Iceland. Money talks!

ShockedAND FINALLY:Shocked
Quote:
to assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy.

The result of this meeting should be mutual agreement of how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE.


Orrrrr, to sum up:

FFS, someone snitched and we got caught with our pants down. We will bribe the CSM to see that we ARE going ahead with RTM so they might as well take a back-hander and help us smooth the transition in.

Let's be very clear on this.
HIS WORDS
"assist us in defining and iterating on our virtual goods strategy."
"how virtual goods and services will evolve in EVE"

And he ends with:
Quote:
we want to refrain from any further comments on this matter until after meeting with the CSM.


Translation:
Give it a week, it all blows over we get our way. Jobs a done deal.



If we translate from the diplomatic language he used this time, this is exactly what it means.

rootimus maximus
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 - [11051]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Obvious stall for time, no one at CCP has heard of conference calls?


Conference calls are good, they have their place, but sometimes you need to get your team in a room. The CSM are a part of the CCP team, although CCP often forgets about them or willfully ignores them. It seems, for now, they've remembered they exist. Lets see what comes of it and keep our expectations low. Somewhere below the basement low. Under the foundations and heading down toward the core of the planet low.

Originally by: Helena Ashcroft
there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum


And one year ago they were saying exactly the same thing about there being microtransactions in Eve at all. I hope this will be brought up by the CSM over and over and over until we get a straight answer, even though the only honest answer is going to be along the lines of "we lied" or "well, you're just the players so screw you, we lied".

To mare
Amarr
Advanced Technology
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:04:00 - [11052]
 

the new devblog is total bullsh.t
they could have had at least the decency to say nothing at all

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 - [11053]
 


Whatch what they do, not what they say.


Stay the Corse

Baihuigau
Gallente
Skull Brigade
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 - [11054]
 

I cant believe players are lapping up that devblog, essentially their just buying 4 more days in the hope people give up get tired and stop complaining, theres nothing they cant talk over skype or vent, or eve in a conference call, theres no need to fly the csm out, i call bs on this but people are aparently buying it. They are already forgetting they called us golden gooses who wear 1000 dollar pants and the fact that ceo himself gave us a big fu by saying they only care about what you do, not what you say.

FantomChaser
Amarr
The Cursed Navy
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 - [11055]
 

well seems we got a little answer now
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=934
lets see what they will pull out hopefully a full written line signed by the ceo they will never sell ships ammo or other stuff that will have impact in the game economic or power wise ... but only selling eye candy

Abrazzar
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:05:00 - [11056]
 

By the time the CSM has results, it'll be a new month and all monthly subs that unsubbed will be gone, leaving less people around complaining.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 - [11057]
 



No Gold ammo, woohoo

Just GOLD SHIPS, GOLD POS TOWERS, GOLD SKILL PACKS and GOLD FACTION STANDINGS.



CCFAIL
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 - [11058]
 

the first of my accounts ends on 30th... you better got all questions answered by then.
Once its off, it will stay off.

Tatiana Nixx
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:06:00 - [11059]
 

Want to kill AUR?

EVERY ship that is purchased with AUR is now primary for GANK! Every person who has a AUR mod is to be reported in an intel chennel along with thier location TO BE GANKED.

No person will be able to fly/use/or own outside of thier stations AUR purchased items. ANYONE seeing ANY AUR purchased ship/mod/ammo report them on the intel channel TO BE GANKED.

CCP you wanted to see what we did, not what just what we said? NOW THE WORD IS OUT! AUR = GANK.

Goodluvins
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 - [11060]
 

**** CCP, your ***** ass response saying "we're stalling, talk to your powerless representatives after we stall for a few more days. **** you ****ers, and suck my balls if you think we owe you a direct answer."
Blow me CCP. Im staying unsubbed.

Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 - [11061]
 

Originally by: Miilla




CCP want them up in Iceland so they can get them drunk then get them to sign an agreement for other game changing items.





The question is: do the folks on the CSM have the integrity to ignore the handouts and get to the issues? This isn't just a pivotal moment for CCP, it's THE pivotal moment for the CSM too.

Oh, and why wait a week? I can set you up a Webex conference - CCP, CSM, and whoever else we can fit in about 10 minutes time. Just ask!

And, as someone mentioned, if this isn't covered live in video and by eve-radio, it didn't happen.

Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 - [11062]
 

Further proof that it doesn't matter what CCP says, you'll believe whatever the forum trolls want you to believe.

I don't blame them a bit for not paying as much attention to what is said here as they used to. It's pointless.

Meanwhile, 99% of the EVE Online player base continues to play as normal. Well, with the added amusement of laughing at the people shooting indestructible items in a protest sparked by an edited document taken out of context.

You, the EVE community have been massively trolled. You couldn't have made it easier for them.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:09:00 - [11063]
 


Dr Ludovicus
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [11064]
 

Jebus H Christ on a stick...

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?


No need to bribe CSM at all, just answer the fracking question already!

Clearly Dabauss
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [11065]
 


Tirun Araun
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [11066]
 

Hello there!

Thank you for your Dev Blog.

I hope you don't mind if I keep protesting until you're done with the CSM and another week of not posting the logs.

Thank you very much.

My subscription is cancelled and running out.

Tian Oni
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:10:00 - [11067]
 

Originally by: Agrapena
Originally by: Nishachara

Originally by: Nyssa Litari

Dear CCP,

It is not that you made the NeX items unreasonably pricy, although you have. It is not that we merely dislike change. Some of us dislike it, some of us welcome it.

It is that your business plan, from everything we can see, intends to take away the gameplay central to Eve; the player-driven economy. You're planning on making players that have spent time training for manufacturing, researching blueprints to wring out research efficiencies compete with a deus ex credit card.

Someone else pointed out that many player corporations have standings aid as a service for new recruits. You have players themselves advancing the social mechanics of your game, as part of the gameplay. Do you really think it's a good idea to disrupt that?

When we join, we join for the shiny. I joined because I might someday get to fly a Nyx. I'll admit that. But I've stayed, (and paid for new accounts like this one), because it is the players that drive the lore. The epic battles people talk about in chat while mining are the battles that they or their friends participated in, or caused. All of the politics is real. The bad guys are that other group of players that threw a wardec your way.

What we're worried about is that you'll start by taking the little things away, like offering standings aid as a player corp service, and move on to bigger things. There will be people that are willing to pay real money for the I-win-mobile. If you think that you can boil a few hundred thousand frogs to reach out to the few thousand teenagers with dad's credit card you'll lose us too. Then you will have lost what makes the game worth playing.

You'll lose the experienced FCs that know how to run a fleet and can train noobs to be just as valuable as the pilot in the that T2 cruiser. You'll lose the alliances that police their own territory making the alliance mechanics work. You'll lose the smart players who have poured so much time, thought, and effort into the game. The only kinds of players you gain are the ones with short attention spans. The ones that have no patience. The ones that play a "title" and move on.

And what happens when that's your player base? You have to be forever adding "content" like WoW does. Here's the new dance of the month. I've come to hate the term "content" because it's come to be akin to "just give them more icons". I'm not looking for just "content", I'm looking for play.

Most of your players today are not kids. I'm in my late thirties. I work in the software field. Like most of your players, I'm not stupid. I am not just a revenue stream. I say these things not in an attempt to gain your respect. I say these things in the hopes that they make you think about the kinds of players you want inhabiting your universe.

I won't cancel my account yet. You haven't upended the sandbox yet. Like your CEO suggested, I'll watch what you do more than what you say. I played Star Wars Galaxies, I had a character that made weapons. I had a plan in the game to become the premier gunsmith in my little neighborhood. That was what I was going to play toward. Sony changed the game, I dropped my subscription because it wasn't fun anymore. Please don't do that to us.

Regards,

Nyssa




+1 I won`t be cancelling. though if the MT extends beyond vanity for your avatar or ships as a skinning option, I may rethink it depending on what gets introduced. Guess the next few weeks are going to be interesting.


qft

Mia Aires
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:11:00 - [11068]
 

Me, for my part will cease fire.
BUT my accounts will NOT be renewed.

If the solution with CSM is a good one? I don't know and I'm more than skeptic.

What happens if the offered changes doesn't appeal to us?
Sh*tstorm reloaded?


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [11069]
 

Further proof that it doesn't matter what CCP says, you'll believe whatever the forum trolls want you to believe.

I don't blame them a bit for not paying as much attention to what is said here as they used to. It's pointless.

Meanwhile, 99% of the EVE Online player base continues to play as normal. Well, with the added amusement of laughing at the people shooting indestructible items in a protest sparked by an edited document taken out of context.

You, the EVE community have been massively trolled. You couldn't have made it easier for them.

Canasa
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:12:00 - [11070]
 

Originally by: Ranger 1
Further proof that it doesn't matter what CCP says, you'll believe whatever the forum trolls want you to believe.

I don't blame them a bit for not paying as much attention to what is said here as they used to. It's pointless.

Meanwhile, 99% of the EVE Online player base continues to play as normal. Well, with the added amusement of laughing at the people shooting indestructible items in a protest sparked by an edited document taken out of context.

You, the EVE community have been massively trolled. You couldn't have made it easier for them.


Thanks god for someone smart to tell us all where we've gone wrong.
Thanks man - we'd be lost without you!


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