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serenity Galltaki
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:43:00 - [5521]
 

adding my main to this. everything already been said so pointless adding to it other that support

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:43:00 - [5522]
 

Originally by: shilpi
We want Answers and we want them Now!!!!!

And unban the players you are banning just because they are raising this issue on the player's behalf




In before the ban.

Neshtek
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:43:00 - [5523]
 

I don't know if anyone at CCP is still bothering to read this threadnought, but here goes nothing..

If you honestly think that the pricing model for the NEX is the only thing that bothers people regarding the broader topic of MT, you are gravely mistaken. I sincerely hope your identifying of this as the major problem was just a way to avoid a very unpleasant discussion about the real exception people take to this:

It's not about the pricing, that is a joke, not a problem, it is about the concept of selling things like faction standing, ammo etc. for AUR. THIS is the beef that the community at large has; CCP's apparent notion that such a business model would suit EVE and be profitable. Which is insane, for all the reason so many people have already put forward here. Please realize this, if just this. MT for anything other than vanity items is the biggest concern of the community, after that come things like hardware problems etc.

Also, it's kind of strange for Pann to admit that the first idea that came to his mind about how to handle the huge, negative community response was to "let it blow over until they get bored and shut up".

Ren Nekk
Dead Eye Dogs
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:43:00 - [5524]
 

The few CCP fanboys who cannot let this crap game go aside, I feel pretty proud of the EVE community right now. That newsletter and other CCP statements project the idea that we are all just a bunch of idiots waiting to be manipulating into liking what we supposedly already want (microtransactions for everything). No doubt CCP hopes this will all calm down and they can go forward with their "**** the freeloading spectator" strategy, but I'd like to think this massive, mostly unified response shows that is not going to happen. We'll see, I guess, but it makes me happy that we are by no means seeing the usual, 50/50, "whiner":"stalwart CCP defender" response here.

-4 acccounts here, to say again. Reason for canceling?

"I cannot be a part of a game that is run by the company responsible for the Fearless "Greed Is Good?" newsletter. The only thing worse than the direction of EVE with respect to microtransactions is the dishonesty and disrespect CCP seems to wield against its loyal customers.

If that newsletter is at all an accurate representation of CCP's ideas and goals, I sincerely wish your company the worst, and I certainly will not be reactivating any of my 4 accounts, nor using my PS3 to purchase anything related to DUST 514, nor indeed having anything at all to do with CCP in the future."

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:43:00 - [5525]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Gabriel Arxangel
I have been here a while, I remember t20. I remember the reason for starting the CSM. There is no doubt that selling valuable items through MT has the potential for making significant money for CCP, and I understand how a company would desire to pursue that. Ironically enough I'm one of those in position to take advantage of the MT market. Real money for unbeatable ships or t3 ammo or even extra skill points certainly wouldn't break me. But I know it's wrong. It destroys the "sandbox" concept that eve has valued for so long. It cheapens the game.

It is very disturbing that anyone who works on this game could even contemplate such a game destroying feature. It does not 'cross the line' it leaps over it. Eve is based on you taking what you want and fighting to keep it, everyone starts the same and goes from there. Giving players the option of buying what they want devalues the cornerstone of the game. That's why it is so wrong for eve. I always thought the biggest fans of eve were the devs who loved and cared about this game, I see now that isn't the case, at least for some.

I blog won't fix this, neither will any grandiose promises. PR won't stop this, perhaps even Helmar can't stop this. I am not upset about the system demands of CQ, and believe in the vision of increasing player immersion. When CCP shared their vision of a total sifi MMO, I cheered. Could CQ have been implemented better, sure. Could some the players ideas be included to improve the expansion, sure. Do I believe that CQ is a bold leap forward, yes and I applaud the effort.

But allowing out of game advantages to spill over into the game is 180 out from the sandbox concept eve has prided itself on. It is so wrong on every level, and the fact that anyone involved in the development of this game fails to see that is truly frightening. I am not ready to rage quit, I am not threatening. MT for in game advantages is NOT in place yet, and hopefully never will be. If/when it becomes a reality, I will have some hard choices to make. I truly hope CCP never asks me to make that decision.



Well said.

but to quote another thread..

Originally by: Mater Dolorosa

"We need to milk them 9 more months to get enough cash to finish Dust & WoD. Be brave guys, in 2013 Eve will be a f2p and we'll get rid of them..."



They can and did contemplate it.

This is why CCP is in fact over regardless of any action they take save sacking the whole team.


While we're on the topic of T20, anyone else recall a young Stoffer Ninjapirate entering into that threadnaught (opposing the ban). Years later, CCP Soudwave (yep, same person) is the one who bans a new batch of whistle blowers.

Ah sweet irony.

Kallynda Nai
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [5526]
 

Originally by: Dogo Duma
Originally by: The Mittani
The contents itself are fairly innocuous; the one guy mentioning selling ammo is just some mook, not a producer of consequence.



You have just no credibility whatsoever do you, with the emberassing fanboyism while your peer CSM members are trying to work their asses off to make it possible to build a bridge.

You're either still coping with the booze, or you're just playing the usual "I don't care as long as my dev buddy says it's cool".

Words, words, words. Just like CCP, it is beyond that stage. Go inform yourself, do the homework. Talk with your peer CSM members. Then come back.




Hahaha, are you out of your mind? Mittens? A CCP fanboy? Do you have any knowledge of Eve history whatsoever?

Isis Soryu
Caldari
Universitas Interimo Research
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [5527]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: shilpi
We want Answers and we want them Now!!!!!

And unban the players you are banning just because they are raising this issue on the player's behalf




In before the ban.
Lol still haven't banned me yet, am surprised.

Arcaneidas
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [5528]
 

Edited by: Arcaneidas on 24/06/2011 19:46:06
I find it highly ironic that the day Incarna was released, I was chatting with CCP Chiliad, and he was saying among the things Team BFF worked on was the "NPE". I promptly asked him what did that stand for. He replied " New Player Experience" I pleaded with him " Please don't call it that, you might jinx this whole thing into becoming something related to that very known SOE/SWG incident. He replied by saying " We having been calling it NPE, before they called it NGE" lol.


I am saddened that this is now after the fact becoming more and more reminiscent of that very infamous incident that many would agree caused the downfall of the sandbox MMO that came before this one. There are too many similarities going on here, all of them bad.


Note: To CCP Chiliad's defense, he is in no way associated with the MT and NEX, and has no control over it, so please if anyone gets any ideas, please don't flame him, he actually is a really good guy.


Also let it be clear, I am against MT. It ruins games, period. MT should be nowhere near EVE and New Eden.


That is all. Thank you for your time, Capsuleers.

Edited for spacing and easier reading.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [5529]
 

Originally by: Chogon Toil
Good thing there's another space game coming out.
You know...

Star Wars.

I bet BioWare is ROLLING right now at this catastrophe. I'll bet many of us SciFi fans that mocked Star Wars: TOR just a week ago are now going, "well... huh, can't be worse than this, right?"

Good one, CCP. You dun goofed, big time.


so will someone be setting up a "eve vets only" corpo... or... um... "guild"*?

*sounds so dirty not talking in the sense of corporations...

Tigrandyr
Minmatar
Everset Dropbears
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [5530]
 

Edited by: Tigrandyr on 24/06/2011 19:44:28
I am not overreacting. This news has not incited me to drastic measures. My opinion of CCP is shifting however. Up until this point, I viewed CCP's progress on EVE online as exceptional. I have been playing since Trinity. The progress made from Trinity to Apocrypha has been awesome. The game still needed work, but I had faith that CCP would undertake this work and complete it.

This faith was not blind, it was based on currency that CCP had banked through previous successes. When development started to falter in recent years, I told people to give CCP time. EVE is a complex many headed beast. They, CCP, were trying to expand the universe into other markets, but they would not harm the core of EVE. They, CCP, would return to iterate on features already within the game within due time. At this time, I am unsure whether I could repeat these statements to others again. I am not ready to cast judgement upon CCP, but I am not sure whether CCP's vision of the game is traveling as parallel to mine any more as it once did. This places my continued participation in the wonderful many headed beast that is EVE in doubt.

P.S. And before you ask, no you cannot have my stuff. If I were to leave EVE, I would exit within my ship as it burned to cinders.

Quantessa
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:44:00 - [5531]
 

I'm not too worried about whether middle income vain people are struggling to keep up with rich vain people but I was very sorry to see Helicity permabanned.

I'm not especially enamoured of Hulkageddon but I think that this event and the carebear event organised in retaliation give wonderful colour to the game. He has an interesting blog too and flies with the Pythons who are always fun. It's a shame to lose someone like that.

So let's look at his crimes. He was verbally aggressive to CCP staff. Now I've worked in customer service and I do appreciate you need to take a zero tolerance approach as there are many people out there who are scary when frustrated (or plain bonkers). I don't think Helicity is quite in that bracket.

Eve is a pvp game where a lot of smack crosses back and forth. It has a fan community outside of the official forums that is mature and free speaking, to the point of rudeness sometimes. It's this culture that encourages people to be agressive on the forums just as we can be in game. He's a frikkin pirate.

I hope you will consider rescinding the ban. Possibly conditional on better behaviour towards CCP staff, despite recent rage we are ultimately on the same side, the side of those who love Eve.

Thanks.

Fejo
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:45:00 - [5532]
 

CCP HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND ?

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:46:00 - [5533]
 

Edited by: Reed Tiburon on 24/06/2011 19:46:05
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Gabriel Arxangel
I have been here a while, I remember t20. I remember the reason for starting the CSM. There is no doubt that selling valuable items through MT has the potential for making significant money for CCP, and I understand how a company would desire to pursue that. Ironically enough I'm one of those in position to take advantage of the MT market. Real money for unbeatable ships or t3 ammo or even extra skill points certainly wouldn't break me. But I know it's wrong. It destroys the "sandbox" concept that eve has valued for so long. It cheapens the game.

It is very disturbing that anyone who works on this game could even contemplate such a game destroying feature. It does not 'cross the line' it leaps over it. Eve is based on you taking what you want and fighting to keep it, everyone starts the same and goes from there. Giving players the option of buying what they want devalues the cornerstone of the game. That's why it is so wrong for eve. I always thought the biggest fans of eve were the devs who loved and cared about this game, I see now that isn't the case, at least for some.

I blog won't fix this, neither will any grandiose promises. PR won't stop this, perhaps even Helmar can't stop this. I am not upset about the system demands of CQ, and believe in the vision of increasing player immersion. When CCP shared their vision of a total sifi MMO, I cheered. Could CQ have been implemented better, sure. Could some the players ideas be included to improve the expansion, sure. Do I believe that CQ is a bold leap forward, yes and I applaud the effort.

But allowing out of game advantages to spill over into the game is 180 out from the sandbox concept eve has prided itself on. It is so wrong on every level, and the fact that anyone involved in the development of this game fails to see that is truly frightening. I am not ready to rage quit, I am not threatening. MT for in game advantages is NOT in place yet, and hopefully never will be. If/when it becomes a reality, I will have some hard choices to make. I truly hope CCP never asks me to make that decision.



Well said.

but to quote another thread..

Originally by: Mater Dolorosa

"We need to milk them 9 more months to get enough cash to finish Dust & WoD. Be brave guys, in 2013 Eve will be a f2p and we'll get rid of them..."



They can and did contemplate it.

This is why CCP is in fact over regardless of any action they take save sacking the whole team.


While we're on the topic of T20, anyone else recall a young Stoffer Ninjapirate entering into that threadnaught (opposing the ban). Years later, CCP Soudwave (yep, same person) is the one who bans a new batch of whistle blowers.

Ah sweet irony.


You either die a hero...

Alaizabel Bronstein
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:46:00 - [5534]
 

Originally by: serenity Galltaki
everything already been said so pointless adding to it other that support

HankMurphy
Minmatar
Pelennor Swarm
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:46:00 - [5535]
 

If that newsletter is legit, this is **** ****ing poor CCP.

Date of Birth 2004-06-24 01:21:00
That's right, today is my 7year eve birthday.

Account Canceled.


That's right, today is my 7year eve birthday.

You will have to work to earn me back. I went as far as one can go in our friendship CCP, always trusting you would meet me halfway.

Talk about a slap in the face.

I'll be taking great interest in your response to this. Worst case scenario, I can look forward to giving SW:TOR 7 years of loyalty and hope they don't **** it away the way it appears you are doing.

Thevani Khashour
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:47:00 - [5536]
 

Protest going on in Amarr at the monument! Come on down and enjoy the fun!


Still waiting, CCP.

Arna Dahl
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:47:00 - [5537]
 

EVE Online Subscription Cancelled

You have cancelled your EVE Online subscription.

Your account will be suspended at the end of the current subscription period, expiring on 28 August 2011.

Your characters will be stored safely and be ready for you to enjoy again should you decide to return.

If you feel that this cancellation has been made in error, you can quickly and easily reopen your account by clicking below.
-------------------
thanks for all the fish...

Milkmy Sausage
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:47:00 - [5538]
 

Edited by: Milkmy Sausage on 24/06/2011 20:11:32
Originally by: Quantessa
I'm not too worried about whether middle income vain people are struggling to keep up with rich vain people but I was very sorry to see Helicity permabanned.

I'm not especially enamoured of Hulkageddon but I think that this event and the carebear event organised in retaliation give wonderful colour to the game. He has an interesting blog too and flies with the Pythons who are always fun. It's a shame to lose someone like that.

So let's look at his crimes. He was verbally aggressive to CCP staff. Now I've worked in customer service and I do appreciate you need to take a zero tolerance approach as there are many people out there who are scary when frustrated (or plain bonkers). I don't think Helicity is quite in that bracket.


Eve is a pvp game where a lot of smack crosses back and forth. It has a fan community outside of the official forums that is mature and free speaking, to the point of rudeness sometimes. It's this culture that encourages people to be agressive on the forums just as we can be in game. He's a frikkin pirate.

I hope you will consider rescinding the ban. Possibly conditional on better behaviour towards CCP staff, despite recent rage we are ultimately on the same side, the side of those who love Eve.

Thanks.

I second this, Helicity's comments whatever they were were in the heat of the moment, but the way I feel right now about AUR and the lack of response, I sympathise with Helicity not CCP

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:47:00 - [5539]
 




TODO:

1) Play Eve
2) Watch CCP's demise - IN PROGRESS
3) Watch real train wreck to compare with item 2)
4) If no train wreck available, watch a sinking ship to compare with item 2)


Nalta
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:48:00 - [5540]
 

Three accounts canceled. I'm going to take up golf. Apparently it costs as much as eve and gives the same experience

ExploringTheGalaxy
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:48:00 - [5541]
 

While we're on it, CCP, would you guys mind fixing hybrid turrets? Seriously. Stuff like that would go a long way to help rebuild some trust. I think you should fix hybrids. Soon?

Foo Chan
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:48:00 - [5542]
 

I sure hope its just an attempt to get fast cash.

CCP, you guys are all grown up, I'm sure.. so you can easily realize that any game (even one thats been around for 8 years) that creates microtransactions quickly becomes dominated by rich people (yes, I do mean in real life) and rich people get bored faster.. while not-so-rich people (like me) simply have to give in and quit.

The math is simple:
Rich people rule + only rich people + rich people all bored = what?

EVE suicide, thats what.

I sincerely hope you guys listen to the players, or otherwise I fear you will have to try a game without them.. and that would be sad, I love EVE.
ugh

Centaur Centurion
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:49:00 - [5543]
 

I regret that i didnt join earlyer :-( before this failure started and CCP starting to turn away from their community.

Kurvica Kravlja
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:49:00 - [5544]
 

Originally by: Stignos
"Greed is good" document should be addressed and it needs to be clearly stated if this is going to be what the business model for both EVE and DUST 514 is going to be.

I think the vast majority of players agree that the prices of the vanity items are ludicrous, and we would like to know if performance enhancers (ships, modules, guns, ect...) for both EVE and DUST 514 are out of the question. Having a bigger wallet should never give you an edge over someone clearly more skilled than you but with less money to spend. Be it EVE or DUST 514.

Once these topics are discussed I am sure a lot of the accumulated pressure will start to release.


+

Dennie Fleetfoot
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:49:00 - [5545]
 

Originally by: Kindora Adoulin
CCP, I have one request that will at least (in my opinion) show a step in the right direction.

If you are actually planning to bring your transparency as a company back to where it once was, then it would be in your best interest to post the Greed is Good document to your news feed. Many of us have already seen the document, however there are still many who have not, and if you are serious about bringing about more transparency then stand behind that and put the document out for everyone to see.

You have lost a lot of the trust of your player base and you need to take this first step to true transparency NOW. Responding in this thread is not helping matters.

You need to take action on this ASAP and post the document out in the open (on your news feed for everyone to see), apologize to the community, and issue an official statement from Soundwave and the rest of the management group that micro-transactions will remain purely cosmetic and that you will pursue a more transparent company policy in the future. And most importantly, you must follow through on that statement. If you don't then far less people will forgive you a second time.

You will lose subscriptions over this incident, however you will lose far more if you do not take action and SHOW your community that you are taking a step in the right direction rather than just telling us here.




I was just about to say something similar. The Eve homepage is like it was on Tuesday.

A front page apology and appeal for patience will go a long way. Also a like this forum and a posting of the newsletter in game and out, to prove that you are no longer hiding the truth and being as honest as possible.

I've been gaming for over 30 years now and what CCP have achieved in the last 72 hours is nothing less than the biggest epic fail in gaming history.

Seriously, you guys should be utterly ashamed of the bare faced lying you've been taking part in.

I bet Fanfest next year will be cancelled because none of you would dare to look any of us in the face until this has been rectified.

Wencher
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:49:00 - [5546]
 

Originally by: Quantessa
I'm not too worried about whether middle income vain people are struggling to keep up with rich vain people but I was very sorry to see Helicity permabanned.

I'm not especially enamoured of Hulkageddon but I think that this event and the carebear event organised in retaliation give wonderful colour to the game. He has an interesting blog too and flies with the Pythons who are always fun. It's a shame to lose someone like that.

So let's look at his crimes. He was verbally aggressive to CCP staff. Now I've worked in customer service and I do appreciate you need to take a zero tolerance approach as there are many people out there who are scary when frustrated (or plain bonkers). I don't think Helicity is quite in that bracket.

Eve is a pvp game where a lot of smack crosses back and forth. It has a fan community outside of the official forums that is mature and free speaking, to the point of rudeness sometimes. It's this culture that encourages people to be agressive on the forums just as we can be in game. He's a frikkin pirate.

I hope you will consider rescinding the ban. Possibly conditional on better behaviour towards CCP staff, despite recent rage we are ultimately on the same side, the side of those who love Eve.

Thanks.


I think Helicity is a pretty cool guy. He rages at CCP and doesn't afraid of anything.

http://pastebin.com/NtRB9bin

seeseelia
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:50:00 - [5547]
 

Originally by: Vic Tenrach

My #1 concern: The existence of AUR in the first place. Why introduce a new currency? What was wrong with ISK? You can only obtain it by converting PLEX, which means either forking over more ISK for a pair of pants than it costs for a Battleship or by paying real money for it. The "leak" on EVE24 suggests that AUR will be able to buy more than just fashion items, it suggests being able to but GAME CHANGING items. This makes me very uneasy. My only quesiton is: why do we need AUR?


We don't need Aurum, CCP do in order to generate extra cash.

It's to do with the way PLEX works. If you pay for game time with ISK it doesn't matter to CCP as that game time has in effect been pre-purchased by another player. Converting a PLEX to Aurum in effect gives CCP the cash that would otherwise have gone on providing access to the game for someone else.

It's quite a neat trick. Players value ISK, but it doesn't have any direct *monetary* value to CCP, which is why they've had to invent it.

For the record, I have no problem (in theory) paying for vanity items with Aurum, I even quite like the idea of acquiring an orbiting Sparklepony that follows me about as I pootle around in space. But playing against people paying real money for real advantage would really upset the balance of what is actually a unique and delicate ecosystem. Like letting hunters pay to take potshots at the rare and beautiful animals in your nature reserve.


ethan666
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:51:00 - [5548]
 

If game changing MT is implemented i will leave end of.

Magicblue
Amarr
NorCorp Enterprise
No Holes Barred
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:51:00 - [5549]
 

Originally by: Centaur Centurion
I regret that i didnt join earlyer :-( before this failure started and CCP starting to turn away from their community.
Don't worry, it will take them at least a month to spiral this game into utter destruction if they continue on this path so we still got a bit playtime leftVery Happy

shaun 27
NanoTech Innovations
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:51:00 - [5550]
 

Account Expires
01 July 2011 (in 6 days)


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