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Kristina Vanszar
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:11:00 - [4801]
 


knanid volatar
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:11:00 - [4802]
 

Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo
Originally by: knanid volatar
Originally by: Yo****aka Moromuo
It's also kind of hard when the forum userbase drives that second party away... which I believe we've seen demonstrated here.


Stop whiteknighting you fool.

CCP asked us to post here. They asked for Parley.

Then they reverted back to their standard operation procedure of waiting for the rage to subside; thus making the original request for discussion completely pointless.

In a nutshell the request for parlay was a lie. But noone is surprised this time.
And I'm sure that attitude gives you many friends. Yes, they requested parley. And what happened? They were rather vocally attacked. I'm sure they're in the right for mostly backing off.


1. What does the amount of friends I have got to do with anything whatsoever?

2. The request for Parlay was a response to players already raging.

3. Petitioned for offensive language within your name

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:11:00 - [4803]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 24/06/2011 17:13:12





I like Incarna, pitty CCP fecked it up and going to feck it up some more.

I like standing in the CQ dock looking in awe at the huge Vargur or Fenrir or Tengu sitting there.




Gabrial Jobs
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:11:00 - [4804]
 

The idea that you wish to introduce Pay to Win in a subscription-based sandbox shows just how out-of-touch CCP has become. Who really thought that was a good idea? Who did you expect to stick around for it? At least this came out now, just in the last week or two I was considering reactivating an account or two for the summer. Thanks for saving me that bit of cash and if this cart keeps rolling the way it looks to be my last account will go bye-bye too.

Ripley Nostromo
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:11:00 - [4805]
 

Originally by: Miilla
BLA BLA BLA, MOAN + GRUNT, MOAN + GRUNT


That pretty much sums it all up....

Words Words Words
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:12:00 - [4806]
 

Originally by: DeathCam
Originally by: Orphan World
Quote:

http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html


Everyone must read




Thevani Khashour
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:12:00 - [4807]
 

Edited by: Thevani Khashour on 24/06/2011 17:12:21
Originally by: Miilla


Eve Customers will flex a little, they have, they accepted vanity items in the NEX store, they accepted the PLEX, but game changing MT items, they won't budge on most likely. CCP has a plan, they are executing on it, doesn't matter how far customers flex a little. CCP doesn't care, it is their time table and their demise.

No sense in fighting what is already comming, let em screw it up, it's just a game for us, it is a job for them, which is now at greater risk, we have no risk to take. Let em screw themselves.

I have no problem with this at all, really, I have 110 days remaining, I just hope CCP don't go bankrupt between now and 110 days time, after that, I don't care if they get layoffs. Not my problem really.


I plan to have fun all the way out, if that fun means laughing at CCP and their employees, Fine by me, Just another form of fun.

No sense in being miserable over it, it's not worth it, and neither are CCP.


When the rats trolls leave the game, that is a time to worry, really, it is.










TODO:

1) Play Eve
2) Watch CCP's demise - IN PROGRESS
3) Watch real train wreck to compare with item 2)
4) If no train wreck available, watch a sinking ship to compare with item 2)





That would make me want to actually watch the Titanic if I didn't have to watch that hideous love story jammed into it.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:12:00 - [4808]
 

Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 24/06/2011 17:12:41



All that awesome biz talk sounds like : that guy. Too bad for CCP, we are not in the 80ties anymore.




Mechael
Minmatar
Helhest 1st Prospectors' Collective
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4809]
 

I'm picturing a lot of intense conflict and negotiation happening at CCP HQ right now. I can see it now ... the money-grubbers vs the employees that actually care about EVE. Who will win, I wonder?

Sgt Maru
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4810]
 

We were supposed to get an official statement sometime today? Does it have to pass through CCP Atlanta and CCP Shanghai before it gets released?

Veriasse Valence
Gallente
Es and Whizz
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4811]
 

I managed to scroll through most of this thread, but I did quit around page 130 once I realized there were no new blue posts. A lot of good thoughts in here, and rightfully expressed indignation and rage.

For me, AUR and the NEX fundamentally changed my experience of EVE. I, like many others, have played a number of other mmos that are basically f2p, such as NavyField and WoT, but that have a good deal of microtransactions built in. These games inevitably feel arcadey for it, you are always aware of the fact that this is just a game, I can yank out my credit card and suddenly poof a whole pile of stuff into existence. PLEX did allow a similar influx of ISK into your wallet, but it was not immersion breaking. Kinda made sense, the way they played it as CONCORD pilot licenses, and even if you bought and sold them they were still worth game time you could redeem. Now, AUR makes game time disappear in exchange for horrendously overpriced and ugly customization options in an environment where you may not get to show it off for a minimum of months. The fact it stares you in the face and that EVE is now being developed around it changes the feel of the whole game.

I can no longer load up the game world and feel like it is its own distinct entity, one wherein my hard work is commensurately rewarded with success, advancement, or failure. Now I log in intimately aware of the fact that I can't afford to waste real money selling PLEX or using AUR. At some point this will inevitably mean I am at a disadvantage to others, whether it is because I can't store enough fittings for the numerous ships I fly or that I still use 'lame' faction ammo instead of the fancy new AUR ammo. Sure, those with enough riches in game or in real life can buy lots of these goods off the NEX and sell them to us peons for the usual ISK, but then we'd have to rely upon the RMTers to get the equipment to compete.

Not only that, but speaking as an industrialist, selling anything outside of minor vanity items and not including it in the player economy as something needing resources and skills to create is undermining the basic fundamentals of your own game. Without those resources being used, the only people able to make ISK are mission runners and ratters. Extraction of natural resources in all its forms continues to take a backseat. Mission and rat bounties do not fluctuate based on the inflation or deflation of currency, so while miners continue to make less and less, doing the same old missions on autopilot nets you more in comparison (has to date at any rate). Do we really need to continue to exacerbate this crucial issue?

Really though, the killing blow for me was the change of the entire atmosphere of EVE. I heard it best when someday said they now feel like they are logging into a cheap Korean F2P mmo. As AUR continues to grow in use and importance, as CCP has stated, this will only continue to get worse. Soon enough you won't be able to do anything without CONCORD billboards showing ads for 5% sales on monocles and redeem PLEX now get 500 extra AUR! I always used to come back to EVE off and on, it held my imagination like nothing else, but with the intent on CCP's part of moving forward with this new strategy, the universe they've created has been indelibly tarnished in my mind. I can no longer separate in game fortune from out of game fortune, and I generally play games to remove myself from the real world for a time. Thanks for all the fish, and see ya later.

Crunchmeister
Sick Tight
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4812]
 

Originally by: Mechael
I'm picturing a lot of intense conflict and negotiation happening at CCP HQ right now. I can see it now ... the money-grubbers vs the employees that actually care about EVE. Who will win, I wonder?


Money always wins.

jackaloped
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4813]
 

Originally by: Eclorc
Originally by: Da Gooch

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?



This is the only thing that needs an answer right now, everything else comes second to this vital question, simple as.






I'll add to this message. If I see "no plans at the moment" or "forseeable future" or any other wriggle-out clauses in the response I'm gone for good.

Nothing short of 100% commitment to NEVER allow anything beyond VANITY items will keep me here, as anything less would signal clearly the intent to renege down the line.



As long as the item can then be sold for isk it doesn’t change a thing. It will be just like plex. Why the big drama?

diaufop
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4814]
 


Ripley Nostromo
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4815]
 

Originally by: Gabrial Jobs
The idea that you wish to introduce Pay to Win in a subscription-based sandbox shows just how out-of-touch CCP has become. Who really thought that was a good idea? Who did you expect to stick around for it?

LOTS of people will stick around for it....

Seako
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [4816]
 

Originally by: Miagi Sans
Originally by: Miilla

Step 1) Break Eve
Step 2) Charge AUR for fixes
Step 3) Wonder where all the customers went




as much as i am ****ed right now at CCP, your incessant childish posting is making me loathe you at the moment more so than CCP


Ragequit over the token greed part I guess.

Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:14:00 - [4817]
 

actualy, there might be reson for the silence....

First they have to get a hold of a guy on vacation around the Bahamas

The next one is on hes yacht, but the satphone is off...

Then there is one in monaco semi drunk on a cassino...

One is looking at a new house somewhere in France..

Next one is having a threesome with some co wokers...

The ones they do get a hold of are saying....hey i need a new car...**** em....

That is why there is all the silence...


Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:14:00 - [4818]
 

Originally by: Gabrial Jobs
The idea that you wish to introduce Pay to Win in a subscription-based sandbox shows just how out-of-touch CCP has become. Who really thought that was a good idea? Who did you expect to stick around for it? At least this came out now, just in the last week or two I was considering reactivating an account or two for the summer. Thanks for saving me that bit of cash and if this cart keeps rolling the way it looks to be my last account will go bye-bye too.


Clearly DUST is going to be "Pay To Win". How much of a stretch, given the tone of that newsletter, would it be for EVE to get "pay to win" too?

CCP isn't concerned with making a great game. They are concerned with making money. Where they have become disconnected is they don't understand that without the first the second will never happen.

ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group
The Veerhouven Group
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:14:00 - [4819]
 

I created my first alliance just before Incarna came out.

I finally decided to take a stand and just finished canceling all 4 accounts.

Piranhas
Unchained Potential
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:14:00 - [4820]
 


Strrog
Caldari
Zero Excavations
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:14:00 - [4821]
 

Reconciliation can be considered here are some terms:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536782

thank you

OttoParts
Caldari
Corporation 432
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:14:00 - [4822]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29
As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the Captain’s Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna.



I can't say as I have any performance issues myself- 60fps on an nVidia 9800 GT ECO (yes, a video card without a 6/8 pin auxiliary power connector) or any heat issues- but others do, and that certainly needs addressed.
I don't like the Captain's Quarters, but I have a feeling I would have liked them more if I had been able to walk around the station and interact with other players a great deal more. As it is, and as I personally understand it, the player base was given an expansion that has done nothing. We can walk around and do the same things we could do before, and it takes longer. No added functionality there, in reality, just a timesink. (And yes, I am aware that more is coming- soon™- but nobody knows when that will be or what it will consist of. Given CCP's track record of soon™ with WiS, that's due to be 3 years from now, is the fear).
Yes, things on the Noble Exchange cost ridiculous amounts. That definitely needs to be addressed, for two reasons. If the way to get items off of the Noble Exchange requires a PLEX, there is nothing forcing a player to use PLEX from off of the market; they could buy their own, circumventing the main reason that these MacroTransactions were implented in the first place- to take PLEX out of the game. Secondly, there will be a large initial rush of 'sales' with this first expansion. I do not think it unreasonable that, while there will always be some small sales going on, perhaps even daily, most sales are only going to happen at first implementation, and then quickly die off. (Additionally, I find it highly offensive that there are more NeX items in the ISK market fields than are available on the NeX itself- which suggest to me that this expansion was rushed, wasn't ready, or is a blatant attempt to try and drum up excitement for overpriced goods. That's me personally, haven't read anybody else saying this, but then again, I haven't read every thread and every post.)

Now that I've addressed your points directly, here are some more-
I feel that WiS is far too dark. I'm told there's a capsule on the balcony, but I can't see it- unless it's that... thing... at the bottom of the stairs. Unacceptable. Dark can be done right, this is like trying to play Doom 3.
No ship spinning. I miss it, not that it did much, but as it is (and I have disabled the CQ, naturally) I feel like I'm playing an Atari text adventure, but nothing in my inventory will open that blasted door in front of me. Oh, and the other three compass directions are apparently blocked. A game that touts itself as being a *space* game should invite free spaces into it, not introduce wallpapers and remove any 3D interactive material.
There is also the issue of this purportedly leaked memo. Is it real, or is it not? Regardless, while nobody can honestly expect everybody to have the same mind on everything within a group, I feel that there are some people in positions within CCP that look upon MacroTransactions as a viable, and accepted, form of business within EVE. Naturally, they are out of touch with the majority of EVE players (not to say that there isn't some consensus, but as it is, certain people think raping another's wallet is just fine).
I fly a T3 ship, doing L4 missions, and even I can applaud the decision to make sure that no ship is unprobeable. Seems a broken mechanic to me. But there are many other broken mechanics in game. Are all of these going to be looked at?

I think I've laid down what I see wrong with this expansion. I might have missed a thing or two, so I hope somebody else has covered it (and with 161+ pages, I think they have- multiple time).

Aineko Macx
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:15:00 - [4823]
 

In the past the defining characteristics of CCP have been
- Incompetence
- Negligence
- Stubbornness

These are now joined by
- Greed
- Untrustworthyness

Like DV said, the playerbase is pretty hardcore and can and has taken a large amount of **** from CCP over the years. But this is too much.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:15:00 - [4824]
 




Here is something to think about, since the China server is much cheaper than the TQ server here.

How much do you think NEX items would be in the China server?

Im pretty sure they will be dirt cheap.


incorr
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:15:00 - [4825]
 

Originally by: Miss Yanumano
I've also heard that asking people to put down their pitchforks, torches, feathers and tar while simultaneously ignoring their main concern is good PR, maybe you should have just have been silent? This is pure gasoline/styrofoam shredding mix (hint: basic napalm) to the fire.


You see? Eve isn't a a game, it really is another life,
null[/bThis is pure gasoline/styrofoam shredding mix (hint: basic napalm) to the fire.
[b]null

This is just one of thr things you learn in STI

Marcus Flavenos
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:16:00 - [4826]
 

i just started playing eve and love it for the fact that it can be played without real money, MTs will ruin the game, there the reason i quit playing MMOs in the first place and i will stop playing EVE because of them

Ira Infernus
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:16:00 - [4827]
 

Hey CCP, wheres the statement you promised us today?

Jaroslav Unwanted
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:16:00 - [4828]
 

Originally by: Miilla



Here is something to think about, since the China server is much cheaper than the TQ server here.

How much do you think NEX items would be in the China server?

Im pretty sure they will be dirt cheap.




Dont think it would happen, since china servers are open for RMT.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:16:00 - [4829]
 

Originally by: Gabrial Jobs
The idea that you wish to introduce Pay to Win in a subscription-based sandbox shows just how out-of-touch CCP has become. Who really thought that was a good idea? Who did you expect to stick around for it? At least this came out now, just in the last week or two I was considering reactivating an account or two for the summer. Thanks for saving me that bit of cash and if this cart keeps rolling the way it looks to be my last account will go bye-bye too.


Simple.

Eve is only a subscription based game until we've paid for WoD to be developed.

Then it goes F2P and we all quit.

We just all quit 18 months too soon for CCPs plans.

Anon Forumalt6858
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:17:00 - [4830]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

There is significant internal discussion with CSM, but we have not yet been informed of any final decisions regarding CCP's formal response. We have strongly urged that it be shown to the CSM in advance.

I'd urge you to do exactly the opposite.

If you become a buffer/filter for CCP at this time then you WILL become perceived as part of the problem, rightly or wrongly.

Their mess. Their PR. Let them spin it themselves Neutral

Well, given that most of the current threadnaughts could probably have been largely avoided if CCP consulted CSM in advance, while I can see your point, I think there is value in giving us a first look.

While it is not our job to do PR for CCP, it is within our role to point out what the likely reaction is going to be, call bull**** on them if they avoid answering the key questions, etc.

In other words, it is not our job to pour water on their fire, but it is our job to point out they are about to toss in a bucket of gasoline.


It's encouraging to see that our elected representative is eager to fulfill a role to the community that elected you, thank you for that. However, if CCP can't see that on their own, given the extremely volatile and candid responses to this and other threadnaughts, then it is already lost.

I for one have also chosen to make my opinion known by canceling both of my accounts. They're both still plex'ed up for a few months, so we'll see if they can earn the reactivation between now and then.


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