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Wolf Kruol
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:00:00 - [4411]
 

Bye bye eve. SUB closed.

WCPistolPete
Gallente
MacroIntel
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:00:00 - [4412]
 

Originally by: Transporter Slave
Edited by: Transporter Slave on 24/06/2011 15:01:17
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=549

April Fools joke from 2008.

Now the joke's on them.


Many a truth is said in jest. Looks like someone took this joke and used it as the business model. Too bad for CCP.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:00:00 - [4413]
 

Originally by: Napoleon Baleine
Do me a favour, CCP, and watch the trailer for the Trinity expansion.

I started playing just after Apocrypha hit (recognised as the last "excellent" expansion you have produced) and was not around in the days of Trinity. I just watched the trailer for the first time and it almost brings a tear to the eye, both because it looks and sounds amazing, but also because it's sad to see what state the game is in now.

CCP, you guys were awesome. You didn't sell out to anyone. You made the game you wanted to make and you didn't give a flying **** about what was happening elsewhere in the industry. When did that change? When did you stop caring? I believe we can bring the glory days of EVE back by working together, but we need a long term commitment from you that you will drop any plans for microtransactions beyond vanity items, start making AND FIXING internet spaceship content and promise to be honest about your intentions and act with integrity.

If you need some money, increase the subscription rate. I would gladly pay more for the game if I knew it were going towards the future of EVE and not DUST or WoD


Yeah, it was a great patch. Look at all the awesome that they included (on top of all the shiny).

I don't think a single patch since has had nearly as many changes included... even these "mini" patches (Incursion, Incarna) when taken wholly into account.

TZeer
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:00:00 - [4414]
 

CCP headquarter after Incarna deployment

Just reposting this since it's quite funny.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4415]
 

Originally by: TZeer
CCP headquarter after Incarna deployment

Just reposting this since it's quite funny.


its worth it

Mordrake
Freelance Economics Astrological resources
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4416]
 

Edited by: Mordrake on 24/06/2011 16:02:03


Ok CCP Soundwave, you have had yer morning coffee, Lunch is over, you are well rested.....


TIME TO FACE THE MUSIC FFS



Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?




Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4417]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

There is significant internal discussion with CSM, but we have not yet been informed of any final decisions regarding CCP's formal response. We have strongly urged that it be shown to the CSM in advance.

I'd urge you to do exactly the opposite.

If you become a buffer/filter for CCP at this time then you WILL become perceived as part of the problem, rightly or wrongly.

Their mess. Their PR. Let them spin it themselves Neutral

Well, given that most of the current threadnaughts could probably have been largely avoided if CCP consulted CSM in advance, while I can see your point, I think there is value in giving us a first look.

While it is not our job to do PR for CCP, it is within our role to point out what the likely reaction is going to be, call bull**** on them if they avoid answering the key questions, etc.

In other words, it is not our job to pour water on their fire, but it is our job to point out they are about to toss in a bucket of gasoline.

mvrck22
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4418]
 

Originally by: Jefferson H Clay
Originally by: ThirdEyeBlenny

He's not disputing the fact that the newsletter's authentic, you moron, he's disputing claims that have been made with regards to the newsletter representing official policy.



We've moved beyond it being representative of official policy. I'll cover this one.
A year ago CCP said no MT in EVE ever.
We have MT in EVE.
We all thought MT would mean MICRO... we were all annoyed to discover we were wrong.

The newsletter, whilst being an opinion/discussion piece is the, apparent, opinion of the lead designer of this very game. We are described in terms that are... unsavory.

It has been pointed out by ex-employees and others that quite often what is featured in this newsletter comes to pass.


Good thing to read in that regard.

It's real, it's how it is, it's what the roadmap is. I was shocked probably even more by that other CSM member, Meissa, who on his blog and in a post in this thread put one and two together and concluded that CCP was lying to them. Doesn't matter whether on purpose or by screwup, results count.

Tom Peeping
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4419]
 

Edited by: Tom Peeping on 24/06/2011 16:08:20
Originally by: CCP Pann
Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29
Hi, everyone

Some of you who have been around for a while may remember me. I was the original community manager for EVE. These days, I oversee the PR and Community teams. While most of what I do happens behind the curtains, I am still aware of whatís going on front and center. I would be lying if I said that whatís happening now didnít make me sad, but Iím not here to ask for your sympathy. To be perfectly honest, Iím here to buy time while we try to sort things out. No sense in lying about it so I'll call a spade a spade.

Itís clear that many of you are <understatement alert> angry </alert>. Thereís a lot happening, things are changing quickly and we havenít been as forthcoming as you were used to in the past. Iím willing to step out front and take a lot of heat for that since I was the one who made the decision to hold off on responding for a while to see if things cooled down once the new wore off.

I was wrong to do that and I apologize. We should have said something much sooner. We should have done more to address your concerns and be forthcoming, even if we werenít going to be able to immediately give you all of the answers you were looking for or the answer your questions in ways that will instantly turn those frowns upside down. To be even more candid, I cannot answer all of your questions, either, but I am working with the people who can to start getting those answers for you. Again, I know weíre doing this past the expiration date of your patience but I hope youíll bear with me.

I know that, with very few exceptions, most of you donít know me from Adam. I havenít earned your trust or respect; therefore I have no right to ask anything of you Ė but I am going to try, anyway. Can I please count on at least some of you to help bring the pitchforks and torches down a few notches?

Like I said, I wonít be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weíll start getting some info out tomorrow. As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the Captainís Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what Iím missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way. I will remove posts without prejudice if they are counterproductive to the conversation I hope to have with you.

If youíve read this much, thanks for staying with me. If you have something to say, Iíd like very much to hear it.

Humbly yours,
~P~

*edited to fix a "doh!" typo



Pann, I understand your request for calm.... however, you don't seem to understand that this is a situation that DEMANDS a certain amount of upset. CCP is making some extremely poor decisions recently. The only "calm" your getting from me, is that I'm waiting to see what CCP does before unsubbing my 3 accounts. You guys are probably talking in the CCP offices, complaining that we don't like "change"... hate to break it to you but not all change is good... good change is acceptable, but bad change is just bad mkay? That leaked document makes pretty clear that we've been being fed a line of crap for quite some time by CCP. Your priorities are a lot clearer now... especially given your overzealous action against Helcity. Either you change your priorities or you lose at least some of your existing subscriber base (in the name of seeking to expand your subscriber base).


To make this clearer... because obviously you don't get it... the high cost of items is NOT the issue here, yes we're unhappy with captains quarters, but one can pretty much just ignore them, so that's not the issue either. Yes there's performance problems, but that's only inconvenience... YOU SIMPLY DON'T GET IT. The issue is your microtransaction focus and CCP's obvious greed to the detriment of it's players. HTFU CCP.

Azhpol
Gallente
Casa Del Wombat
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4420]
 

Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
****, i just scrolled to every page from 30 to 144 looking for dev responses, and I found none.
Please stop spamming, I dont want to sift to another 30 pages consisting of 90% useless ****posts just because i went to have dinner.



Thanks.


And CCP needs to respond NOW.
http://www.eve-search.com/search/dpf/all <- Dev post list Wink

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4421]
 

Originally by: Valari Nala Zena
People who cancel their subscriptions will just pick it up again while their account is running out.

I'm sure CCP is making lots of profit selling vanity items, way more than the few who unsub for real.


Monocles are not alive and can't pay subscriptions. People can.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4422]
 

Originally by: Zanetia
Originally by: Algathas
"DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this magazine do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP."

Yeah, sure you can say that but lets analyze this for a moment:

The personal views of the leaders of a company *are* the views of the company, as those leaders will impress those views on their subordinates and push for that direction. Plus using "personal view"/"individual opinion" and "Internal information"/"Trade secret" in the same sentence kindof clashes don't you think?



Yeah, I'm not quite understanding how an employee's personal opinion can be considered confidential and a trade secret of the company?


Every real job I have ever had had similar NDA's and policies. Its an industry standard in almost every industry.

When I worked at Intel corporation for example, I wasn't even allowed to say I worked there, nor give the name or # of anyone within the company to someone on the outside.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:01:00 - [4423]
 



Eve Customers will flex a little, they have, they accepted vanity items in the NEX store, they accepted the PLEX, but game changing MT items, they won't budge on most likely. CCP has a plan, they are executing on it, doesn't matter how far customers flex a little. CCP doesn't care, it is their time table and their demise.

No sense in fighting what is already comming, let em screw it up, it's just a game for us, it is a job for them, which is now at greater risk, we have no risk to take. Let em screw themselves.

I have no problem with this at all, really, I have 110 days remaining, I just hope CCP don't go bankrupt between now and 110 days time, after that, I don't care if they get layoffs. Not my problem really.


I plan to have fun all the way out, if that fun means laughing at CCP and their employees, Fine by me, Just another form of fun.

No sense in being miserable over it, it's not worth it, and neither are CCP.


When the rats trolls leave the game, that is a time to worry, really, it is.






TODO:

1) Play Eve
2) Watch CCP's demise - IN PROGRESS
3) Watch real train wreck to compare with item 2)


Sinker1345
ANZAC ALLIANCE
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:02:00 - [4424]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29

Like I said, I wonít be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weíll start getting some info out tomorrow.



Its 4 PM "tomorrow" over there and you cant get anything out, yet another lie and broken promise from ccp. This kind of stuff combined with the "Greed is Good" letter is why your customers no longer trust you.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:02:00 - [4425]
 

Edited by: Shintai on 24/06/2011 16:02:59
So we got 1 thread creation and 1 post from Pann. And then she ran off and hide again.

What an utter cluster**** ÄÄP. You cant even do basic stuff right, after you ****d your entire playerbase. And filled us with lies and broken promises.

Deaell Portt
Gallente
V O O D O O
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:02:00 - [4426]
 

Sweet baby Jesus they dont answer yet ? Are they seorius ? Really? Really serious?



I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!



T0KER
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:02:00 - [4427]
 

THE BIGGEST PROBLEM PEOPLE ARE HAVING IS THE MICROTRANSACTIONS YOUR ADDING THAT ARE GOING TO DESTROY THIS GAME


WHAT A JOKE.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:03:00 - [4428]
 

Originally by: Morar Santee
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
Originally by: Nikodiemus
FRIENDS! There is a reason for this horrible incident and lack of communication and salesmanship.

CCP Hiring New Chief Marketing Officer

Someone should apply since CSM is obviously bull**** and kill the lies from within.


Was there a Chief Marketing Officer before? Normally Sales & Marketing reports to the CFO - this just proves that CCP new business plan is already being implemented ... or that they realised the current CFO is an incompetent money grabbing coward.


I couldn't help to notice this little snip from the job details:

Quote:

... leading thought innovation in marketing to the point of inspiring development rather than be framed by it.


Actually, I found this part more interesting:
Quote:

- Ability to understand our product and services which includes:

-> in MMOís / video games is a positive, but not required

Says it all.


Remember when expansions became trailers and features became taglines?

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:03:00 - [4429]
 

Edited by: Marcus Vorenius on 24/06/2011 16:03:18
Originally by: ThirdEyeBlenny

He's not disputing the fact that the newsletter's authentic, you moron, he's disputing claims that have been made with regards to the newsletter representing official policy.



It's not a matter of representing official policy or not. The fact that it's on the table and communicated in a NEWSLETTER proves that it is indeed the route CCP is going. They nerfed fittings recently and in the newsletter they mention charging RL$ for more fittings. There are multiple posts describing this better than mine - so read moar.

ThirdEyeBlenny
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:03:00 - [4430]
 

Originally by: Mitchello
Edited by: Mitchello on 24/06/2011 15:57:22
Originally by: Ancyker
The tldr difference is basically this is just asking people within CCP their opinions on the matter and doesn't actually represent any actual plans. I still want confirmation in writing and signed by the CEO himself before I believe anything that CCP says, but I'm a bit less ragequit-y now.

While this doesn't restore my trust/faith in CCP, it damages what little I had to start with in evenews24. Ok, well, I never actually trusted evenews24 at all, but now I definitely won't ever trust them :P


Originally by: ThirdEyeBlenny

He's not disputing the fact that the newsletter's authentic, you moron, he's disputing claims that have been made with regards to the newsletter representing official policy.



Nice try.



Nice try at what?


Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:04:00 - [4431]
 

Originally by: Joao Duarte
Originally by: Ancyker
So I was on massively and they had a link to the now infamous newsletter, which I thought I had already read on evenews24.

But it said something about "missing pages". This peaked my interest so I downloaded it to compare to the first one. There are actually 20 pages in total in the original. It's pretty much the same thing, it appears the pages themselves were not edited, but pages were removed which dropped the context of the remaining pages. So while I'm still upset at those individuals my anger towards CCP as a whole has diminished.

The most notable line is:

DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this magazine do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP.

Though it still upsets me that certain individuals at CCP think as outlined in the PDF, I do feel a little better with that simple paragraph. It definitely opens the door for them to fix it, where before I didn't see a chance in hell of that happening.

Compare them for yourself:
EVENews24.com Version
Original Version

The tldr difference is basically this is just asking people within CCP their opinions on the matter and doesn't actually represent any actual plans. I still want confirmation in writing and signed by the CEO himself before I believe anything that CCP says, but I'm a bit less ragequit-y now.

While this doesn't restore my trust/faith in CCP, it damages what little I had to start with in evenews24. Ok, well, I never actually trusted evenews24 at all, but now I definitely won't ever trust them :P


1. The "CCP employer" expressing his "opinion" is a lead game designer.
That has already removed visibility of faction standings so they can sell them.
That has already moved fittings server side and limited you to 50 so they can sell you more.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:04:00 - [4432]
 



♫♪♫♪ Ding Dong... CCP is gone.... ♫♪♫♪



Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:04:00 - [4433]
 

Edited by: Hakaru Ishiwara on 24/06/2011 16:06:05
Originally by: R3aliti
Performance and hardware

Does Nvidia even offer a high end AGP card. From what I have seen they have ended production of any AGP cards. So how are we to upgrade, other than buy a whole new system. Not this week.

R3 Sad
The Egg doesn't carry a single nVidia AGP GPU that meets EVE's minimum requirements. FWIW.

That said, the warnings about EVE's new GPU requirements were published eight months ago -- to CCP's credit.

I completely understand the challenges (logistical and financial) required to upgrade hardware, but this is one "issue" on which CCP properly communicated.

Now, back to the dull roar of calls for CCP to take off the knee pads and wipe its mouth of investor semen.

I wonder if the big business school research publications have done much work analyzing the MMO business model yet... worth a google search methinks.

Right now, CCP looks like a great case study. CoolVery HappyCool

ed: clarification on AGP gpu.

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4434]
 

Originally by: Adam Reed
A note of caution: in the newsletter, the main EVE-affecting section was obviously written up as a 'For' and 'Against', with Touborg on one side in favour of non-vanity MTs, and Turbefield on the other against them. While I agree it's hugely dissatisfying to think they're actually considering it, there's little point in crucifying all of CCP because one guy was asked to write the 'For' side of an argument in a newsletter - to essentially simply state his own personal opinion.

If they come out and say they want to introduce it, fine, I quit too. But if they come out and say it's just one guy's opinion and there are no plans to implement it, don't be in any way surprised.


That is very true... and if that was the fact (No game balancing MT EVAR) we would have seen that in the dev reply when CCP Manifest told us "The designs we will implement in game will not **** over the sandbox." He would have added a second line that said "Because we aren't adding game changes from AUR".

An OP/ED piece doing a pro/con debate from faceless editors is ever so slightly different from having the game's lead designer tell us he wants to: "Iíll give you an example of something I think provides value to our customer, which Iíd like to sell. Right now, you can store 50 personal fittings on our servers. Thatís more than enough for the average EVE player, but for a subset of our users, itís too small a number. Why not be able to add more storage space for a small amount of money? Youíd even be able to upgrade it multiple times"

A feature they developed OUT of the game, now he's thinking it'd be dandy to sell it back to us?

Yes, the only game breaking feature strictly called out in the game is selling faction boosts with AUR. But CCP could have let us know that little nugget when they removed the faction display pane from the character sheet, rather than dancing around the "Oh, lag!" song.

It also doesn't change the fact that they lied to us about never adding MT a year ago.. even though that promise was broken a scant few months later.

CCP needs to be MUCH more upfront with her playerbase and less worried about hushing leaks that lead up to "weíd be burned at the stake by the players."

CCP wouldn't be banning folks left and right if they actually planned on making changes. This is pure spin control, and until they answer the basic question, it's not getting better.

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4435]
 

Edited by: Rrama Ratamnim on 24/06/2011 16:07:45
Arrowhttp://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html Idea

best post to date... the only one CCP needs to read i think lol

Fern Dolakar
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4436]
 

Originally by: Miilla



♫♪♫♪ Ding Dong... CCP is gone.... ♫♪♫♪




Stop using large text all the damn time.

Ancyker
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4437]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
That "one guy" is the lead game designer for EVE Online. And read the rest of the newsletter too. This stuff is coming, maybe within 6 months, certainly within the year.


I didn't say it wasn't bad, I just said it was incomplete. And yes he is the lead game designer, I know this, so I still want answers. But the addition of the "maybe" changes things just a tiny bit. Going from "This is what we, as a company, are going to do" to "This is something I've been throwing around" is a quite a difference. To me, the feel of the newsletter changed from a "This is what we are doing" to a "here's an idea". Now, granted, it's a terrible idea, I feel better knowing it's just an idea at the moment, and not an actual plan that has been approved.

As for being "late", I haven't seen this posted on this forum, and others apparently haven't either. I'm still upset with CCP and this guy in the PDF, but before my assumptions were that CCP was just gonna tell us to HTFU and now I feel there might be hope that they see the light and agree with what we've been saying.

Govinda Sertan
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4438]
 

With this leak, we can clearly see that CCP dont intend to work on EVE anymore, but just milk us, the gamers, until we are all dry. And the CM are only here to buy some time until the deed is done.

I joined EvE because of the relation between the community and CCP. Now I see that CCP just want to be exactly like others company, and dont want to do a good job, but just making fast money, even when there is more and more players coming in.

I seriously consider to quit. If they do as they say, this game will lose all its fun very soon.

Kaeda Maxwell
Black Rebel Rifter Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4439]
 

CCP: I'm not on the verge of quitting right now. I don't like jumping the shark.

What I would like is a very clear; "No we will not now and not ever sell any item for RL cash that will give an ingame advantage over other players". And the pledge will have to come from somebody at board level like Hilmar for it to still have any credibility to the player base at this point I think.

Your core product is very PvP centric and pay2win is not acceptable to the vast bulk of PvP'ers out there (in any game, not just EVE) a level playing field is the base requirement for any achievement in PvP to have any value at all. A large part of the outcry in the 0.0 community against bots boils down to that too. Real money trade that is closely intertwined with botting disrupts the 'levelness' of the PvP playing field making SOV warfare fundamentally broken, what's the point if not the players but real world money an interests determine the outcome of battle in the game -a form of escapism from RL mind you!- after all? Merely mentioning anything close to pay2win will send any PvP community screaming with (justified) rage, as I am sure you have by now noticed.

Any hint of pay2win actually making it into the actual game, and not just your internal staff magazine, that I am aware may very well not reflect current official CCP policy, will make me seriously consider taking my subscription money elsewhere to a PvP centric game that does understand pay2win is unacceptable even in concept for what is essentially a PvP game.
Furthermore I find it however very unfortunate and worrying that it is the lead game designer suggesting such things in relation to micro transactions. He's entitled to his personal opinion ofc, he's from a free country last I checked, but I do also think he's dead wrong on the issue.

P.S. I think you would do the future of EVE and you community a great favour if you go back to being passionate about the game and the concept of a cruel and dark virtual space world in which choice really does matter and everybody can back-stab you at anytime (and it will hurt), it is your key unique selling point in today's MMO market. Every time a guy from marketing goes; "If we'd make it it a little easier and nicer we could make money by doing it such a way as X" I kindly suggest the game devs & management put fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU!" while sticking out their tongue out at marketing until they go back to selling EVE on the unique things it already has. So the devs can go back to making the awesome backstabbing more awesome be it in space or elsewhere in the game.

P.P.S. The new turrets are awesome, I kindly suggest you make the in space icons for the turrets on the target bar not brown smudges against black space though, no idea how that made it past your QA department.


Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:05:00 - [4440]
 

This forum-riot seems to be getting out of hand. CCP needs to hire Baschar al-Assad for 1 day, he for sure knows how to handle riots Laughing


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