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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:40:00 - [4321]
 

Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
****, i just scrolled to every page from 30 to 144 looking for dev responses, and I found none.
Please stop spamming, I dont want to sift to another 30 pages consisting of 90% useless ****posts just because i went to have dinner.



Thanks.


And CCP needs to respond NOW.


This will help you.

It is one of those nice 3rd party sites they launched the API blog attacks against in the previous weeks.

http://www.eve-search.com/search/dpf/dev

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:40:00 - [4322]
 

Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Originally by: Chogon Toil
What I'm ok with:
AUR / ISK for in-game benefits: $50 for a full set of +6 implants? Cool. X Aur / Isk for +x% damage implant? Cool. Slightly better ships, alright, fine. Better ammo? Fine. Etc. If the benefits are minor and not huge and reasonable in price (a minimum wage worker in any country could afford a few of such items a month).

What I'm NOT ok with:
Aur / Isk for gate tolls, buying SP, paying Isk / Aur for things we get now, already, for free such as docking in a station.

Also: FIX WHAT'S BROKEN BEFORE YOU ADD MORE!

P.S. CCP, please keep in mind this is a universe you've made. Something you called not a game but REAL LIFE at FanFest. Real life does not change on a whim with every gust. Minor additions we, the PLAYERS, see coming from a mile away is fine. Huge sweeping changes dropped on us anytime you like? Not. Cool.


Great you've broken EVE.. well done.

People run missions and they sell +5's and that pays for their eve, so they happy to do the hard work. I buy some PLEX and get ISK... and I purchase those +5's. The mission *****s get their money.. I can afford the plex.. everyone is happy.

Why would you buy from them for isk when you can just purchase it from the air. So they stop using their LP for +5's and start using it for Damage implants.. oh wait.. you can buy them too, ah well they are done.. AND LOG OFF AND NEVER COME BACK!

As soon as something enters the economy from fresh air... There is no reason to rat, no reason for industrial to make stuff... it JUST ARRIVES..

So well done.. miss the whole point in this argument.

If it comes from fresh air it kills the economy. As soon as the economy dies.. There will be no industrial... no industrialism = we all end up paying RL MONEY for stuff...

If thats what CCP want.. (as it looks like) FINE.. Eve will just be another game that people will play for 2 months and go and play something else.



QFT.

Tob Seayours
Minmatar
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:40:00 - [4323]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Edited by: CCP Pann on 24/06/2011 00:50:29
Hi, everyone

Some of you who have been around for a while may remember me. I was the original community manager for EVE. These days, I oversee the PR and Community teams. While most of what I do happens behind the curtains, I am still aware of whatís going on front and center. I would be lying if I said that whatís happening now didnít make me sad, but Iím not here to ask for your sympathy. To be perfectly honest, Iím here to buy time while we try to sort things out. No sense in lying about it so I'll call a spade a spade.

Itís clear that many of you are <understatement alert> angry </alert>. Thereís a lot happening, things are changing quickly and we havenít been as forthcoming as you were used to in the past. Iím willing to step out front and take a lot of heat for that since I was the one who made the decision to hold off on responding for a while to see if things cooled down once the new wore off.

I was wrong to do that and I apologize. We should have said something much sooner. We should have done more to address your concerns and be forthcoming, even if we werenít going to be able to immediately give you all of the answers you were looking for or the answer your questions in ways that will instantly turn those frowns upside down. To be even more candid, I cannot answer all of your questions, either, but I am working with the people who can to start getting those answers for you. Again, I know weíre doing this past the expiration date of your patience but I hope youíll bear with me.

I know that, with very few exceptions, most of you donít know me from Adam. I havenít earned your trust or respect; therefore I have no right to ask anything of you Ė but I am going to try, anyway. Can I please count on at least some of you to help bring the pitchforks and torches down a few notches?

Like I said, I wonít be able to answer all of your questions tonight, but I promise weíll start getting some info out tomorrow. As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Noble Market. Second, many people are unhappy about the Captainís Quarters. Third, there are some performance issues with Incarna. I would appreciate it if you would confirm my observations or tell me what Iím missing, but I do ask that you do it in a productive way. I will remove posts without prejudice if they are counterproductive to the conversation I hope to have with you.

If youíve read this much, thanks for staying with me. If you have something to say, Iíd like very much to hear it.

Humbly yours,
~P~

*edited to fix a "doh!" typo



FIGUREHEAD

we wish so hard to be seen
and pray at night to be heard
and yet we have nothing to show
but false words and broken dreams
I'm the figurehead on the ship of fools
a beacon for the liars in the dark
I'm the first and the last I claim this land
I'm the lost and the hungry I need this land
the inescapable face of truth
spins my head again
disturbingly to stand back
I'm going down
the undeniable sense of wonder
kicks my head in

disturbingly unable to escape
I dive to drown
we want so hard to be true
and claim the right to be good
and yet we never seem to know
how to reach the promised lands
we work so hard to be wise
and dream of light to be pure
we need brighter death to grow
the clean touch of virgin hands

Azmodeus Valar
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:40:00 - [4324]
 

I can understand CCP's need for extra revenue, and would be ok with MT as long as it was for things like clothing options, or different skins for ships (should be priced at $1-5). However, the internal debate at CCP has me deeply worried, as there should be no debate at all. Fundamentally changing the nature of what impacts a persistent game environment should never have been on the table.

The performance issues and lack of content with incarna also reveal that quality control is not what it should be, despite the large outcry last year about lack of quality control. Overall, I am concerned with CCP's direction, management, and ability to continue Eve as a thriving community. I fear that the rush for the quick buck will destroy your main source of revenue.

As a member of E-Uni, I am in a unique position of dealing with large numbers of new players to Eve on a regular basis. The factors that have brought people into Eve and kept them in game are well known, and I don't see CCP's direction as expanding those factors and increasing subscription count. I feel that it will have an adverse effect on retention, and lower involvement in what still has the potential to be a great game.



Rail Gun
Caldari
The Cathedral of Flesh
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:40:00 - [4325]
 

No need to apologize, ewerything went better than expected. We are busy playing eve enyway so take all the time you need to give us feedback. Some people are just slightly overreacting but they will cool down eventually.

I also like to thank CCP for one of the best expansions in long time.

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:40:00 - [4326]
 

Originally by: Captain Travaras
Originally by: El'Niaga
So if we are parleying, why aren't you participating?

Not one DEV post in this thread now in 11 hours....


my guess is they dont have anything to say that we will want to hear. They can say sorry all they like, but if it doesnt change their minds on where they want the game to go, then their apologies are empty.


Perhaps and this is my only hope for the game. Anyone with any coding experience has been rummaging through the codebase finding stuff they can fix, tweak, repair or otherwise leave annotations for more meaty resources to plunder. PR has been busy writing a speach for Hilmar to say to camera and they're trying to remember how to do a video stream.

I, like a lot of players here don't *really* want to click the button. We love this damn game and frankly it feels like CCP are just sat there going "Well FU we'll just get lots of new players in". And yes I know that makes me a sado basment dwelling dreg.

Where from though CCP? WoW? Hardly. Trekies? They're off in STO. SciFi action MMOers? They've got their game now with more on the way. Mecha-heads? Perpetum (sp?). Star Wars fans? Erm... yeah... something about an ancient form of government appearing soon I remember reading about.

There are only so many MMO players out there and of those only so many want a multifaceted multiplayer Elite like sandbox game. About 300,000 - 400,000 I'd wager.

Ianus
Caldari
Geminus Gateway
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:41:00 - [4327]
 

Originally by: Tippia

http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html


An excellent read. I've seen worse written master thesis.

If you guys are honest about listening to the community this time, don't miss this particular document.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:41:00 - [4328]
 

Originally by: Master ore
Two accounts continuasly active since 2004, both unsubscribed as soon as present subscription period ends.
Thankfully Bioware have a MMO due fairly soon, and thier record for quality games is superb. Planescape Torment,Fallout to Mass effect. Baulders Gate to Dragon Age,nothing more needs saying.


lol. bioware HAD a record for quality games.

EA is doing to them what CCP is doing to eve. Selling out their good name for every drop they can.

DA2 was all i needed to know about EAioware.

It seems a very popular business model anymore. Take a good product and MILK THE CRAP OUT OF IT until there is nothing but an empty husk.

Its short-term gains vs long-term success. You have to, to some degree, sacrifice the extreme potential of one to achieve the extreme potential of the other. It's a balancing act, and I think we can all see things have gotten out of balance here. They have been for a few years now.

Eve and CCP started with the latter, that's why most of us are here. But they showed their hand of cards and we can see which way the winds blow now.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:41:00 - [4329]
 

Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
Originally by: Nikodiemus
FRIENDS! There is a reason for this horrible incident and lack of communication and salesmanship.

CCP Hiring New Chief Marketing Officer

Someone should apply since CSM is obviously bull**** and kill the lies from within.


Was there a Chief Marketing Officer before? Normally Sales & Marketing reports to the CFO - this just proves that CCP new business plan is already being implemented ... or that they realised the current CFO is an incompetent money grabbing coward.


I couldn't help to notice this little snip from the job details:

Quote:

... leading thought innovation in marketing to the point of inspiring development rather than be framed by it.


When marketeers start to make game design decisions, its time to leave the sinking ship.

Rrama Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:41:00 - [4330]
 

Originally by: Ancyker
So I was on massively and they had a link to the now infamous newsletter, which I thought I had already read on evenews24.

But it said something about "missing pages". This peaked my interest so I downloaded it to compare to the first one. There are actually 20 pages in total in the original. It's pretty much the same thing, it appears the pages themselves were not edited, but pages were removed which dropped the context of the remaining pages. So while I'm still upset at those individuals my anger towards CCP as a whole has diminished.

The most notable line is:

DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this magazine do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP.

Though it still upsets me that certain individuals at CCP think as outlined in the PDF, I do feel a little better with that simple paragraph. It definitely opens the door for them to fix it, where before I didn't see a chance in hell of that happening.

Compare them for yourself:
EVENews24.com Version
Original Version

The tldr difference is basically this is just asking people within CCP their opinions on the matter and doesn't actually represent any actual plans. I still want confirmation in writing and signed by the CEO himself before I believe anything that CCP says, but I'm a bit less ragequit-y now.

While this doesn't restore my trust/faith in CCP, it damages what little I had to start with in evenews24. Ok, well, I never actually trusted evenews24 at all, but now I definitely won't ever trust them :P



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This Ouch

Zanetia
Gallente
The Interstellar Lunatic Asylum
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:41:00 - [4331]
 

Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
****, i just scrolled to every page from 30 to 144 looking for dev responses, and I found none.
Please stop spamming, I dont want to sift to another 30 pages consisting of 90% useless ****posts just because i went to have dinner.



Thanks.


And CCP needs to respond NOW.


Try this Wink

Manos Heimenbarger
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:42:00 - [4332]
 

Originally by: I'm Down
am i wrong in thinking it's 24 minutes to 5pm in Iceland now?


I'm thinking they are going to wait as long as they can, release a devblog containing info that really ****es us off, then hope it blows over through the weekend.

Jaroslav Unwanted
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:42:00 - [4333]
 

@Istyn

donation sent / pony feed

Norian Lonark
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:42:00 - [4334]
 

Originally by: Ancyker
So I was on massively and they had a link to the now infamous newsletter, which I thought I had already read on evenews24.

But it said something about "missing pages". This peaked my interest so I downloaded it to compare to the first one. There are actually 20 pages in total in the original. It's pretty much the same thing, it appears the pages themselves were not edited, but pages were removed which dropped the context of the remaining pages. So while I'm still upset at those individuals my anger towards CCP as a whole has diminished.

The most notable line is:

DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this magazine do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP.

Though it still upsets me that certain individuals at CCP think as outlined in the PDF, I do feel a little better with that simple paragraph. It definitely opens the door for them to fix it, where before I didn't see a chance in hell of that happening.

Compare them for yourself:
EVENews24.com Version
Original Version

The tldr difference is basically this is just asking people within CCP their opinions on the matter and doesn't actually represent any actual plans. I still want confirmation in writing and signed by the CEO himself before I believe anything that CCP says, but I'm a bit less ragequit-y now.

While this doesn't restore my trust/faith in CCP, it damages what little I had to start with in evenews24. Ok, well, I never actually trusted evenews24 at all, but now I definitely won't ever trust them :P


That is fair enough but surely it would have been easier for them to respond if this is the case. I really am surprised and disappointed that we still have no real response on this issue and our concerns.

Bane Necran
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:42:00 - [4335]
 

Originally by: Ancyker
So I was on massively and they had a link to the now infamous newsletter, which I thought I had already read on evenews24.

But it said something about "missing pages". This peaked my interest so I downloaded it to compare to the first one. There are actually 20 pages in total in the original. It's pretty much the same thing, it appears the pages themselves were not edited, but pages were removed which dropped the context of the remaining pages. So while I'm still upset at those individuals my anger towards CCP as a whole has diminished.

The most notable line is:

DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this magazine do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP.

Though it still upsets me that certain individuals at CCP think as outlined in the PDF, I do feel a little better with that simple paragraph. It definitely opens the door for them to fix it, where before I didn't see a chance in hell of that happening.

Compare them for yourself:
EVENews24.com Version
Original Version

The tldr difference is basically this is just asking people within CCP their opinions on the matter and doesn't actually represent any actual plans. I still want confirmation in writing and signed by the CEO himself before I believe anything that CCP says, but I'm a bit less ragequit-y now.

While this doesn't restore my trust/faith in CCP, it damages what little I had to start with in evenews24. Ok, well, I never actually trusted evenews24 at all, but now I definitely won't ever trust them :P


Things just got much more interesting.

Good eye, sir.

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:43:00 - [4336]
 

Originally by: Azmodeus Valar
I can understand CCP's need for extra revenue, and would be ok with MT as long as it was for things like clothing options, or different skins for ships (should be priced at $1-5). However, the internal debate at CCP has me deeply worried, as there should be no debate at all. Fundamentally changing the nature of what impacts a persistent game environment should never have been on the table.

The performance issues and lack of content with incarna also reveal that quality control is not what it should be, despite the large outcry last year about lack of quality control. Overall, I am concerned with CCP's direction, management, and ability to continue Eve as a thriving community. I fear that the rush for the quick buck will destroy your main source of revenue.

As a member of E-Uni, I am in a unique position of dealing with large numbers of new players to Eve on a regular basis. The factors that have brought people into Eve and kept them in game are well known, and I don't see CCP's direction as expanding those factors and increasing subscription count. I feel that it will have an adverse effect on retention, and lower involvement in what still has the potential to be a great game.





You want new players CCP? Listen to this.

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:43:00 - [4337]
 

Can all the idiots supporting any form of boost to the sandbox through MT's shut the hell up now, you are not helping @ all, now gtfo out of this thread.

Isis Soryu
Caldari
Universitas Interimo Research
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:44:00 - [4338]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Marcus Vorenius
Originally by: Nikodiemus
FRIENDS! There is a reason for this horrible incident and lack of communication and salesmanship.

CCP Hiring New Chief Marketing Officer

Someone should apply since CSM is obviously bull**** and kill the lies from within.


Was there a Chief Marketing Officer before? Normally Sales & Marketing reports to the CFO - this just proves that CCP new business plan is already being implemented ... or that they realised the current CFO is an incompetent money grabbing coward.


I couldn't help to notice this little snip from the job details:

Quote:

... leading thought innovation in marketing to the point of inspiring development rather than be framed by it.


When marketeers start to make game design decisions, its time to leave the sinking ship.
QFT x 10000

Calden De'Altos
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:44:00 - [4339]
 

Edited by: Calden De''Altos on 24/06/2011 15:44:17
Suprises me that CCP has finally posted a response. As I am glad there are signs of life from them, to me, it just comes off as WAY too late to be asking for more time (seriously, how long does it take for you guys to offically say the newsletter is or is not real?). I, being one of the many who would walk away from this game as soon as it turns into "Pay-to-win," am dumbfounded in how CCP is handling this. I mean, if you guys are having such a difficult time figuring out how to handle this, that tells me you all kinda knew from the beginning this was a bad idea.

I hope, once CCP is finished removing tehir head from their thrid point of contact, that there can be a VERY open discussion into Eve, money, and how the player base would be willing pay for Eve. It is not often that you come across a suggestion that is so bad that it disrupts so many aspects of a game. Simple rule of thumb form now on: If you feel you cant run an idea by the CSM's, its probably a VERY bad idea.

Chogon Toil
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:44:00 - [4340]
 

If you don't like it, don't play it or pay for it?
Speak with your money, not your fingers. It'll have an actual impact.

Tak149
Caldari
Wabbit Fabbit Industries
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:44:00 - [4341]
 

Originally by: Carmine Lady
Originally by: Templar Dane
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Bloody2k
Gallente
ZERO T0LERANCE
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4342]
 


Jaroslav Unwanted
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4343]
 

Originally by: Da Gooch
Can all the idiots supporting any form of boost to the sandbox through MT's shut the hell up now, you are not helping @ all, now gtfo out of this thread.


Just because someone got different opinion ? Really ??

Well you can try to explain why. Instead of it. It would be actually far more productive.


I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4344]
 

Originally by: Taipan Leviathan
****, i just scrolled to every page from 30 to 144 looking for dev responses, and I found none.
Please stop spamming, I dont want to sift to another 30 pages consisting of 90% useless ****posts just because i went to have dinner.



Thanks.


And CCP needs to respond NOW.
Don't worry, you won't see any responses (most likely 'till somone writes a blog or soemhting on the subject)... seems that they decided that "waiting for flame to go out" might actually work second time... idiots.

Ancyker
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4345]
 

Originally by: Norian Lonark
Originally by: Ancyker
So I was on massively and they had a link to the now infamous newsletter, which I thought I had already read on evenews24.

But it said something about "missing pages". This peaked my interest so I downloaded it to compare to the first one. There are actually 20 pages in total in the original. It's pretty much the same thing, it appears the pages themselves were not edited, but pages were removed which dropped the context of the remaining pages. So while I'm still upset at those individuals my anger towards CCP as a whole has diminished.

The most notable line is:

DISCLAIMER: The views put forward in this magazine do not reflect general CCP company policies or decisions and are strictly individual opinions, written by CCPers or about CCPers who feel strongly about these issues. This is confidential internal information. Please respect that every company has its trade secrets and that you are privy to those at CCP.

Though it still upsets me that certain individuals at CCP think as outlined in the PDF, I do feel a little better with that simple paragraph. It definitely opens the door for them to fix it, where before I didn't see a chance in hell of that happening.

Compare them for yourself:
EVENews24.com Version
Original Version

The tldr difference is basically this is just asking people within CCP their opinions on the matter and doesn't actually represent any actual plans. I still want confirmation in writing and signed by the CEO himself before I believe anything that CCP says, but I'm a bit less ragequit-y now.

While this doesn't restore my trust/faith in CCP, it damages what little I had to start with in evenews24. Ok, well, I never actually trusted evenews24 at all, but now I definitely won't ever trust them :P


That is fair enough but surely it would have been easier for them to respond if this is the case. I really am surprised and disappointed that we still have no real response on this issue and our concerns.


Indeed. They are handling it very badly, but at least we can take some (just a tiny bit) of comfort it knowing it's not policy. At least, it's not policy yet. Lets hope this string of events prevents it from ever becoming policy.

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4346]
 

Is this thread losing momentum?

Noooo....

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4347]
 

Originally by: Lucilla Giulia
Originally by: Eladaris
SWG's NGE might have hurt Sony Online... but they're very much stil around and kicking as a company.


CCP is not Sony (right?)


Maybe they're hoping if Eve dies before WoD and Dust launches they can make a new version of Hśttuspil? Their first board game that helped them finance Eve Rolling Eyes

That's VERY true, but it was the earlier points in my post I was referring to. CCP can't exactly back out of the AUR issue (they've already stated they will not). They've sold the notion to their investors. This isn't something new to the company that can be backed out of.

I for one would LOVE to be proven wrong on this matter. A CCP Dev Blog talking about how they intend to spent the next six weeks removing every bit of AUR code from the game would be lovely... but it's not going to happen.

AUR is the wave of the future. The question becomes, can the wave of furor get them to put the breaks on selling us removed features (unlimited fittings) for cash.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4348]
 

Originally by: Tak149
Originally by: Carmine Lady
Originally by: Templar Dane
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



SolusLunes
Caldari
2plus2isfive
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4349]
 

I was playing World of Tanks and I took a shot to the fuel tank, setting my tank on fire. I then died in a fire. I was then subsequently banned by CCP.

R3aliti
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:45:00 - [4350]
 

Performance and hardware

Does Nvidia even offer a high end AGP card. From what I have seen they have ended production of any AGP cards. So how are we to upgrade, other than buy a whole new system. Not this week.

R3 Sad


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