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Tak149
Caldari
Wabbit Fabbit Industries
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:00:00 - [4141]
 

Originally by: Zverofaust
Edited by: Zverofaust on 24/06/2011 13:42:13
Think this sums it up nicely.

http://eve.beyondreality.se/NeXCQResponse.html



Xia Long
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [4142]
 

Edited by: Xia Long on 24/06/2011 15:02:16
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

There is significant internal discussion with CSM, but we have not yet been informed of any final decisions regarding CCP's formal response. We have strongly urged that it be shown to the CSM in advance.


I'd urge you to do exactly the opposite.

If you become a buffer/filter for CCP at this time then you WILL become perceived as part of the problem, rightly or wrongly.

Their mess. Their PR. Let them spin it themselves Neutral


this, is both in yours, ours (playerbase) and at the end even CCPs best interest not to do that
like i said is too late for that aswell

Joe Skellington
Minmatar
Matari Legion Holding
Matari Legion
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [4143]
 

Originally by: Aganola
Oh, one thing I forgot to ask:


OK, Monocles for 60$... what's next? Binocles (glasses) for 120$ ?


I asked the same thing about Goggles, I know they had them on Duality, cause my alt put them on.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


Transporter Slave
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [4144]
 

Edited by: Transporter Slave on 24/06/2011 15:01:17
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=549

April Fools joke from 2008.

Now the joke's on them.

Illadelph Justice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [4145]
 

When this thread hits half a million views and 200 pages you will **** bricks

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [4146]
 

Originally by: Xia Long

PR (in this case dmg control) works fine when used in the right moment, that moment is almost over


It's long since past I'm afraid. Damage control worked fine for Tyrannis and the others, but we're at the juncture where CCP employees were on record as saying "No MT in EVE ever" and there are MT's in EVE (be they Macro or Micro). That's a problem but vanity items only some of us will begrudgingly accept. Then it turns out that's phase 1 and in reality they'll be selling us nifty things to kill each other with. I missed the Scorpion for AUR thing.

Damage control? I don't think a fleet of Guardians going fullbore could keep that ship up.

Nagasaki Warrior
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:01:00 - [4147]
 

Originally by: Jimmy Duce
Originally by: shilpi

Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?



This the main question on which my only account subscription depends, answer it please and i can move on, to game or the account management screen YARRRR!!




Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?




The answer should be no. This is the following day, a simple no would suffice. Why haven't you said no yet? Vanity and all vanity we don't care what you do or charge for vanity, but don't touch stats, no new none-paintjobbed ships, no new ammo, no new drones.


What he said

Jimmy Juice Lips
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:02:00 - [4148]
 

x if you enjoy being royally butt****ed to pay for the development of waking with fail vampires and a fps that will at best enjoy 3 months of sustained attention.

CCP Rapture.

Haunting Widow
SKEET ELITE
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [4149]
 

Originally by: Svennig
Originally by: Viibl Triibl

That's the meat of it. Everything else about the "lie" and the "memo" is just emotional grandstanding. Had Incarna been more on target and better executed, no one would've cared what CCP discussed within its halls.



I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.


I agree with Svennig, maybe Viibl Triibl really is that naive (or dumb) but the issue here is the lies, and CCP's lack of accountability to their player base. I'll be holding their wallets accountable by not emptying mine for them anymore until this is addressed and FIXED.

Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [4150]
 


Aeril Malkyre
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [4151]
 

Posting to reiterate the need for everyone to read and repost the article by Tippia, linked in my sig.

Svennig
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [4152]
 

Originally by: Jimmy Juice Lips
x if you enjoy being royally butt****ed to pay for the development of waking with fail vampires and a fps that will at best enjoy 3 months of sustained attention.

CCP Rapture.


x

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [4153]
 

Edited by: Reed Tiburon on 24/06/2011 15:03:39
All the people who care about this game have either already unsubbed or are seriously considering it.

This is CCP's NGE moment.

Quote:
People wanted something simpler, more direct, more accessible.

We told them. “If you do this, you will lose all of our subscribers. It is that significant.”

The response was that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.


So, we pushed forward.

...

We launched, the marketing push failed, and we lost subscribers.

It was a misread at an organizational level. Design, Marketing, Production,
community. You name it.

We made huge mistakes. We got too close to the changes. Design took something and made it bigger than it should’ve been.

We got swept up in the wave of changes and ran with it. And we ****ed it up. All of us.

...

The point, the ****up, the mistake that we made, was answering an
unasked question.

“Can you change an MMO drastically after it launches?”

Categorically, NO.

If we were to do it again, and wanted to make those types of changes,
you have to make a new game.

Relaunch with a new title.

Or shut down Galaxies and relaunch for real.

You cannot change it at runtime.



That's what we're talking about, folks.

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:03:00 - [4154]
 

And all i wanted to do was order a pizza in game :(

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:04:00 - [4155]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

There is significant internal discussion with CSM, but we have not yet been informed of any final decisions regarding CCP's formal response. We have strongly urged that it be shown to the CSM in advance.


I'd urge you to do exactly the opposite.

If you become a buffer/filter for CCP at this time then you WILL become perceived as part of the problem, rightly or wrongly.

Their mess. Their PR. Let them spin it themselves Neutral


/signed!

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:04:00 - [4156]
 

You guys got too ****y at CCP. Remember that EvE is the foundation that has allowed you to expand to other titles in the first place. You forgot that bit somewhere along the money trail.

Make us happy and you stay in business. It's really that simple.

Microtransactions are insulting our intelligence, as you already force many players to pay for more than one subscription just so they can do certain things and compete in your game, which is complete crap to begin with, and then you have the audacity to try and milk even more cash?

Shanter
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 - [4157]
 

This feels exactly like it did for NGE and when Lotro went F2P. No MMO I've ever played that had a cash shop was worth it. If there isn't a response from CCP saying "No, there will NEVER be anything in the NeX store beyond vanity items" I won't be coming back. It's not worth the time and money to play this game, only to be required to pull out your credit card to compete. And that's how it'll go--if they put in ammo/ships/modules for cash 0.0 will be an even greater RL cash war than it is now.

Ugh. I don't even know why you would think a cash shop would work in this game. Maybe it works for Zynga and Maple Story but the players of EVE online are far, far from that demographic.

Pr1ncess Alia
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 - [4158]
 

04' player.

0.0 vet, carebear, lowsec/fw flunky, i like to switch it up.

I think ppl are nuts and overreacting in GD. Much of this is just kneejerk usual crap that comes with major patches. Some (but very few) complaints seem to have sane and valid concerns.

I LIKE THE CQ!

I think we should just see the old hangar view if we turn off "load station environment". That would be very VERY nice.

I think complaints about the Aurum market are exaggerated at best, unfounded at the other end of the spectrum.

-If you don't like it to begin w/, just don't participate.
-I'm sure clothing options/variety will increase and if there is one silly monocle that costs a rediculous amount of cash so be it. WHO CARES!?
-As long as there is no game advantage being bought with isk, there is no problem. END OF STORY

I think many people in the public are somewhat underwhelmed. I THINK MANY ARE JUST TROLLING YOU!

At the end of the day, eve is still eve, i can still pod people and be podded... the core game remains UNCHANGED. Again, i think it's underwhelming for many and that suprised us.

If people would look at CQ for what it is (a stepping stone for WiS), they might react a bit more sanely.

Not to be 'that guy', but I would like to thank CCP for the years and years so far and that they seem to want to continue to develop Eve.

As long as the sandbox remains, as long as they don't abandon the core principles of flying in space, everything will be just fine.

=========================

To be critical for one moment I'd like to touch on what does bother me. Its not so much what has been done on the last patch but what continues to NOT be done.

I do think we are due some SERIOUS attention to things already in the game.

'All the little things' is nice, but wtf is going on with FW? Why does it seem to take 5 years for ships and weapon systems to get rebalanced? The list of crap is out there and CCP knows what they are.

CCP could make subtle incremental changes across many platforms each patch and that would drastically improve CCP and Eve's image. It would keep the game dynamic and evolving. And this adds to the underwhelming perception of this patch that you spent EONS working on. Everyone wonders, "where the hell did all the development go? why are we left with so many black eyes that never get attention?"

....and that's when we start into the subject of "ccp isn't working on eve anymore, they are building other games with our subs... why should i keep my sub active if it's not going towards eve".

I don't know if this argument is founded or not but if CCP wants to improve their image after this patch, it's something they need to address.

You continue to state how committed to excellence you are, but the proof isn't in the pudding. There are so many empty promises of the past "oh don't worry! we'll continue to support and improve on this" and then YEARS (plural) will go by and we hear nothing.

It's a death by a thousand cuts. You accept ****ing off this small subset of subscribers, and that small subset, but eventually EVERYONE starts to get the feeling that CCP is just trolling us for our sub money.

New shineys can be fun, but if you don't show commitment to the stuff you already have in the game... well you will lose your core membership and with it your company.

I hope CCP hasn't fully sold out and just reacts to whatever they think will make investors the most money next quarter, I hope they focus in LONG TERM success but it doesn't feel that way anymore.

Nikki West
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 - [4159]
 

I love how CCP representatives casually chat on twitter atm... Very Happy

Doc Mephisto
Gallente
Zetatech
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:05:00 - [4160]
 

Kurgan once said "It's better to burn out than to fade away!"

and if CCP continue on the **** EVE lets screw the players for all we can get so we can make Emo Vampires-Online, I don't think Eve will be fading away slowly.

If EVE has to die, i suppose it's better to go out with a bang rather than a whimper.




Brother Pullo
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:06:00 - [4161]
 

350.000 views.

Shocked

And still nothing from CCP besides the usual PR crap.

Absolutely unbelievable.





Roderak Pleem
Minmatar
Abandoned Land
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:06:00 - [4162]
 

This thread means NOTHING until is has over 9000 posts.

Let's get to it people!

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:06:00 - [4163]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Edited by: Reed Tiburon on 24/06/2011 15:03:39
All the people who care about this game have either already unsubbed or are seriously considering it.

This is CCP's NGE moment.

Quote:
People wanted something simpler, more direct, more accessible.

We told them. “If you do this, you will lose all of our subscribers. It is that significant.”

The response was that we would gain more due to the marketing push and relaunch.


So, we pushed forward.

...

We launched, the marketing push failed, and we lost subscribers.

It was a misread at an organizational level. Design, Marketing, Production,
community. You name it.

We made huge mistakes. We got too close to the changes. Design took something and made it bigger than it should’ve been.

We got swept up in the wave of changes and ran with it. And we ****ed it up. All of us.

...

The point, the ****up, the mistake that we made, was answering an
unasked question.

“Can you change an MMO drastically after it launches?”

Categorically, NO.

If we were to do it again, and wanted to make those types of changes,
you have to make a new game.

Relaunch with a new title.

Or shut down Galaxies and relaunch for real.

You cannot change it at runtime.



That's what we're talking about, folks.



AND MORE:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2008/06/16/dredging-up-the-past-the-star-wars-galaxies-nge-re-examined/


"Those 200,000 customers - customers - you blithely dismiss as "dregs" and "weirdos" - are paying your salary. You can't just blow them off for the mythical millions of people looking for a better game."


Kuikiker
WALLTREIPERS
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:07:00 - [4164]
 


State Adler
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:07:00 - [4165]
 

CCP is doomed. EVE was something very special in the sea of WoW clones, but the market is changing and CCP isn't successfully adapting. CCP seem desperate to find other ways of increasing revenue, which seems to suggest that either they're not doing so well financially, or that the people in charge are blindly trying to get on the MT bandwagon. The sad thing is that they don't seem to realise that the EVE community is not your typical MMO community.

EVE players are willing to overlook the horrible UI, tolerate the spreadsheet gameplay and struggle their way up the steep learning curve, to get to the sandbox behind it all. CCP can try to broaden their audience all they want, but the people who want to play EVE are mostly already doing so, and CCP don't have the game development skills to draw in more casual players.

Do CCP seriously think that Dust514 is going to be able to compete with games such as Call of Duty? At best they'll be able to produce a decent shooter (probably with some very awkward design and UI decisions) which will be played for a couple of months and then silently disappear off the radar.

EVE is in some ways the ultimate social game; it doesn't work without huge masses of players. In EVE, the other players *are* the game, and thus, giving EVE players exactly what they want, and not what CCP want, should be CCP's highest priority.

As it is, CCP is cramming unwanted changes down our throats, either because what the players want isn't economically viable anymore, or because CCP leadership believe that EVE belongs to the shareholders, not the players.

Either way, EVE is screwed.

I really like Incarna. I like what the CQ does to the feel of the game - I really do feel like I'm more than just a ship now. I don't care about expensive vanity items and I'd love to continue playing EVE for years, but now I'm not so sure anymore. The huge investment it takes to play EVE is part of what makes it appealing, but now that I've lost trust in EVE's future, investing suddenly doesn't seem much fun anymore.

I'll see where this is going before I resub.


Lord Cath
Amarr
Gung-Ho
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:07:00 - [4166]
 

they're not gonna bring forward statements they're not allowed to make... unlike us, they get payed for EvE. And don't think they feel like getting fired that much.

that being said, I'm almost past patience. More like just unsubbing and getting on with it...

Marcus Vorenius
Caldari
Task Force 42
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:07:00 - [4167]
 

Alexander the Great said "I don't fear an army of lions, led by a sheep; i fear an army of sheep, led by a lion".

I would not call the CSM a lion, but a sweet lion cub would do in our case (WTB pony pic with mean lion cub)

Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Amarr
Iure Divino
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:07:00 - [4168]
 

Originally by: Nikki West
I love how CCP representatives casually chat on twitter atm... Very Happy


I think it's a nervous habit. Or a way to relieve stress. Or they don't care. Evil or Very Mad

Gutuie
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:08:00 - [4169]
 

Edited by: Gutuie on 24/06/2011 15:08:55
Originally by: Rasz Lin
CCP:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


CCP this is your future? look again the boy face, and again...

Viibl Triibl
Posted - 2011.06.24 15:08:00 - [4170]
 

Originally by: Haunting Widow
Originally by: Svennig
Originally by: Viibl Triibl

That's the meat of it. Everything else about the "lie" and the "memo" is just emotional grandstanding. Had Incarna been more on target and better executed, no one would've cared what CCP discussed within its halls.



I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.


I agree with Svennig, maybe Viibl Triibl really is that naive (or dumb) but the issue here is the lies, and CCP's lack of accountability to their player base. I'll be holding their wallets accountable by not emptying mine for them anymore until this is addressed and FIXED.


Be less of an emo kid.

Sorry to invalidate 95% of the nonsense on the forums right now, but what matters is that they made a bunch of terrible, terrible decisions - not that they explored options on the way there.



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