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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:28:00 - [3271]
 

Posting ponies for ccp management...


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

...and all they give us is...


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Account expires in 1d 8h 13m 23s and counting
The another account expires in 0d 15h 28m 38s and counting
There is my vote - it is free - reel it in


ddogg
Amarr
HuzzaH
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:28:00 - [3272]
 

Everything has been stated clearly in this thread thats wrong with the expansion, so I am just posting so that CCP has my disaproval added to that already expressed.

My objections

1. You either follow a free to play game shop model or a subscription model - you don't get to have the best of both. Make your mind up and make the game free to play with a shop or scrap microtransactions and the NEx store.

2. Don't add system hogging content that adds zero to game play. (this is still supposed to be a game right ?). I was expecting to be able to log on my walking character, join others in that station and interact.

3. Don't dumb down the content - I cannot beleive that CCP didn't study what happened to swg as an example of what never to do to your player base.

Roll it back and rethink.

Concubinia Scarlett
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:28:00 - [3273]
 

Posting in a stealth Gallente buff thread.

Ancyker
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:28:00 - [3274]
 

Originally by: Ancyker
You want out of this CCP? I got the perfect way out for you:

Put it in the LICENSE AGREEMENT!



Put in the license agreement you will not add items that give any advantage what-so-ever. Vanity only. So if you break this promise we can sue your asses off.

Just to be clear:

vanity (plural vanities)
1. That which is vain, futile, or worthless; that which is of no value, use or profit.

I think this got lost.

neuroticdax
Caldari
Volition Cult
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:29:00 - [3275]
 

since evryone is cancelling there subs and likely not coming back i would be remiss to ask can i have your stuff?

Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:29:00 - [3276]
 

Could we at least get an ETA on a statement?

w0rmy
Destructive Influence
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:29:00 - [3277]
 

Originally by: Amber Villaneous
If anything in that petition can reasonably be considered a real life threat then I guess when I say CCP can go **** themselves I am literally saying that I want a company to rip its **** off and shove it up its ass?



They will ban you for ANYTHING.

I got a ban once for saving Wranglers email address, in my email clients address book as 'Rump Wrangler'


Youve just got to hit the the GM with PMT.

Zarus Alexander
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:29:00 - [3278]
 

Originally by: Az Secc
Helicity, one of your most passionate players, was banned for the equivalent of a "diaf" comment?

Way to blow things out of proportion.


Did you read the rest of the **** they wrote? They're ****ing insane.

I'm Down
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:29:00 - [3279]
 

Originally by: xeitgeist

The person who posted CCP's leaked documents has been permanently banned on all accounts. Let this be an lesson to all of you.





It violates the EULA... no really, not kidding it does.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:30:00 - [3280]
 

Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 24/06/2011 12:32:31
Originally by: ddogg

1. You either follow a free to play game shop model or a subscription model - you don't get to have the best of both.


It's F2P they've decided on.

That is the next surprise for the few people who remain before the server is shutdown.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:30:00 - [3281]
 

Originally by: TZeer
Whats next?

AUR for:

- Access to tournament reward ships?
- Skillpoints?
- Special Implants?
- Stat changing packages for ships, a little more speed, little more armor.?
- Buying yourself out of security hits?
- Exclusive insurances that will return you lost items if killed?



AUR per character in fleet, as a blob deterrent? Razz

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:31:00 - [3282]
 

Won't be too long before the forum will break down! Is this the largest threadnougt ever ?

Karol Kei
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:31:00 - [3283]
 

Originally by: Ancyker
Originally by: Ancyker
You want out of this CCP? I got the perfect way out for you:

Put it in the LICENSE AGREEMENT!



Put in the license agreement you will not add items that give any advantage what-so-ever. Vanity only. So if you break this promise we can sue your asses off.

Just to be clear:

vanity (plural vanities)
1. That which is vain, futile, or worthless; that which is of no value, use or profit.

I think this got lost.


Up there. Wisdom.

stilz
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:31:00 - [3284]
 

Dear CCP,

As a player who has played EvE on and off for the past 8 years.

I would like to know what I did to slight you in such a way that my 3 accounts are now forced to look at a door.

Please bring back my old hanger.

Thank you,

-stilz

Warg Matar
Minmatar
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3285]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.

As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.

I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!

I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.

By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!

Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.

Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.

In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.

This illustrates it well:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


+1 cycle dv until ccp imo

Arya Greywolf
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3286]
 

Originally by: Aganola

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Indy Rider
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Terra-Incognita
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3287]
 

Originally by: Morphisat
Won't be too long before the forum will break down! Is this the largest threadnougt ever ?


Well its grown faster than the T20 thread. Make of that what you will.

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3288]
 

Originally by: Stray Kat
CCP's vision for EVE as a total SciFi experience has not been bought into by the majority of the playerbase and they are kicking and screaming every step of the way. With each step that gets closer to that vision the emotional backlash hits a new level.


You are very very wrong. Go and watch the fanfest video's, not just the CCP ones but all of them that predate CCP's YouTube account.

Atmospheric flight: applause and cheering.
Incarna tech demo: pretty much a standing ovation.
PI mock ups and description: applause and cheering.
Incursions (i.e. group PvE): applause because we like doing things in groups.
Sov changes: applause because to hell with tower spamming.

At no point did anyone go "I honestly don't want this" sure some people voiced concerns, others asked hard questions but we're all here because of that all encompassing SciFi simulation thing CCP have been trying to deliver.

Now... go and look at what we've got. Go compare the vision for PI with the reality, go look at the sov mechanics and start comparing. I still can't do a straffing run on a planet in a frigate.

At no point has CCP not had buyin for that vision from the playerbase. The backlash has been getting worse because they've been straying ever further from that very vision.

Isis Soryu
Caldari
Universitas Interimo Research
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3289]
 

Originally by: I'm Down
Originally by: xeitgeist

The person who posted CCP's leaked documents has been permanently banned on all accounts. Let this be an lesson to all of you.





It violates the EULA... no really, not kidding it does.
CCP can DIAF

xynix
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3290]
 

http://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Tardsauce

apparently the Devs have time to post on Twitter

Kuronaga
Black Snake Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:32:00 - [3291]
 

The EULA is not a legally binding contract.

It's something an MMO developer can call upon when looking for reasons to ban someone, but to actually use it against them would be fruitless since they can change the agreement at any time and date they please without authorization from all parties.

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3292]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
I feel sad that this has happened - and sad that I need to write this post (not just because it'll probably get buried under 9000 other posts). However, I hope this will be read because I am trying to make a reasonable argument here - not a raging flame post.

As a recurring member of the CSM, whose duty it is to represent the players (something I took very seriously), I went to CCP to discuss the issue of microtransactions. In fact, this topic was discussed several times on CSM summits (both in October and in December). We were assured that microtransactions would be vanity items only.

I was told, to my face, that CCP would not sell anything in their virtual goods store that would not be a vanity item (vanity items being useless fluff, not giving any benefits). Now I read in your newsletter that one of your main game designers is openly argueing to break this promise. I take that as a personal insult and a clear sign of disrespect towards the Eve community as a whole. Shame on you for even considering to break your word!

I'm still subscribed, the but moment CCP will offer anything other than vanity items for PLEX/AURUM/etc is the moment I will cancel my accounts. In going for the 'hobbyist gamer' (casual gamers, even though eve isn't that casual gamer friendly), you seem to have forgotten a large part of your player base. The part that has shaped Eve over the years: the hardcore gamers. We don't come here as a hobby to experience an ultimate sci-fi simulator. We pay a subscription for an all-access pass to this crazy dystopian universe, where what you do, what you become and what you achieve comes down only to your skills, dedication and your effort. And because of that, our actions are meaningful.

By extending the virtual goods sales beyond vanity items you directly attack one of the things that seperates Eve from all the other MMOs out there: that actions are meaningful. If I can just buy faction standing, what meaning is there in doing missions for faction standings? What meaning is there in finally achieving 6.0 standing (for POSs) or 9.0 standing (for COSMOS missions)? And from what I read, that's not even the end of it!

Some people might enjoy spending more money 'on their hobby' like it was golf (an analogy that is inherently flawed, which I'll explain below), but due to the dystopian, merciless nature of Eve you've bred a community that exists for a large part out of hardcore players. People who see Eve as a serious business proving ground - not as a lighthearted diversion. These are the people who have allowed you to get to where you are today. These are the people who stuck by you over the past 8 years - even if they do call themselves "bittervets". To turn your back on those people is at best poor form, and at worst commercial suicide. Because Star Wars Galaxies has shown you can't just trade in one group of customers for another.

Why golf is not the same as eve
Specifically, buying golfclubs isn't the same as buying items in Eve. The equivalent would be if you could pay $100 to get one swing/strike/whatever it's called removed from your record. Instead of making a hole in 5, you could pay $400 and get it listed as a hole in one! Suddenly, your golf stats won't depend on how good you are, but simply on how much money you're willing to spend. Try to suggest that to golfers and see how they like it.

In Eve, just flying a spaceship isn't all there is to the gameplay. The effort to GET that spaceship is part of the game. The fact that it isn't easy to obtain certain things, achieve certain things or do certain things is exactly what makes these things meaningful. Meaningful to me AND to others, who can see what I have achieved. And now some game designer would like to take that away? Bad move CCP.



Very good post! +1

Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3293]
 

Edited by: Evelgrivion on 24/06/2011 12:33:36
Originally by: xynix
http://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Tardsauce

apparently the Devs have time to post on Twitter


Tardsauce is not a CCP employee; it's a mock account.

EVE IS NOT A THEME PARK


Foralai Altrus
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3294]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 24/06/2011 12:31:24
Originally by: ddogg

1. You either follow a free to play game shop model or a subscription model - you don't get to have the best of both.


It's F2P they've decided on.

That is the next surprise which the few people who remain before the server is shutdown.


Actually looks like they want pay to play and play to win together... see how well that worked with iirc Archlord

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3295]
 

Originally by: Morphisat
Won't be too long before the forum will break down! Is this the largest threadnougt ever ?


Yeah its got to be up there. The T20 threadnaught was pretty big iirc.

C.

xeitgeist
Amarr
Dirty Rotten Imposters
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3296]
 

DEAR CCP:

DIE IN A FIRE

THAT IS ALL

Zephy Russ
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3297]
 

I trust that there will be a solution, though at this point it's more like hope. It looks like, whatever happens, we are headed for "interesting times".

Oh, and please unban Helicity Boson, that really isn't helping your case whether or not you feel you have the right to.

Max Gades
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3298]
 

Originally by: Vladimir Ilych
Could we at least get an ETA on a statement?


You Know as well as i do it wouldnt happen. who knows they might suprise us though...

milandinia
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3299]
 

Edited by: milandinia on 24/06/2011 12:33:57
microtransactions destroy eve

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:33:00 - [3300]
 

Originally by: Sister Bliss
Firstly, stop thinking this is a small issue associated with Aurum, MT, Captains Quarters and such. While each of those topics is indeed an issue to be debated in their own right, the broader issue is much larger and dwarfs these entirely.

As a long term paying customer, I have seen virtually no progress towards addressing key broken mechanics and unfinshed expansions over the past 2 years! Instead we continue to pay for low value, peripheral expansions that do nothing significant to enhance the game, and only adds more clutter and unfinished content.

All of these concerns were raised by the playerbase in the 18 months thread fiasco if not before then in many cases. Recently you've announced you are just starting to look at 0.0 and other gameplay aspects. So if we look at this as an example, and with your delivery record, I would be surprised to see any meaningful expansion to Eve within the next 1.5 years that goes anywhere near addressing player expectations.

In total, this represents an almost 4 year gap between you listening to and responding to your customers comments and feedback. 4 YEARS!

FOUR YEARS!

It's clear that your focus is on bringing in new players, but without fixing the core mechanics which keeps players here long term, you're just treading water. The vision and creativity which we saw and belived in years ago has long since faded and died. Today even the smallest of fixes is met with cheer given how low everyones expecations have settled (this alone should make you very concerned).

As an example, you could fix the Technetium issue over a single weekend if you actually got off your ass instead of ****ing about discussing how to finance other titles and spending years working on this Incarna disgrace. Get your ****ing priorities straight.


Good post.


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