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Angela Spears
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:14:00 - [1]
 

Just curious what the smart way to approach this. I understand not flying a ship you don't have the skills to fly. I rushed to get into an Omen before I had hardly any other skills to fly it. Well, I've spent the time to complete all the recommended certificates for the Omen, even took some of those skill to lvl5 just because it seemed like I should.

Now, moving onto a bigger ship, battleship or battle cruier? Not sure really which to pick as I'm just mission running. When should I move to the next ship? Should I pick which ship I want to fly, then complete all the recommended certificates for it? or just move to it now?

Still learning hehe. Thanks

Sewer Urchin
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:24:00 - [2]
 

What are you wanting to do?? PVE?? If so I would probably recommend a battleship, although if you're trained up for an omen you're gonna have a lot of the skills you need to hop into a battleship already due to them using cruiser size weapons.

However, in most cases a Battleship will serve you far better running lvl 4's or similar pve activities than a battle cruiser.

A battle cruiser will run lvl 4's no doubt, but a battleship will do it a lot faster.

If you're looking to get into PVP, then (generalized statement ahead) a battle cruiser is the most cost effective ship in the game IMO. It allows for a broad range of pvp roles and with insurance factored in is pretty cheap.


Coruso Malefactor
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:25:00 - [3]
 

Personally, I would invest in a battlecruiser myself. They are inexpensive and useful in PvP and PvE (from what I hear).

The amarr Harbinger is tough, can have a full flight of medium drones, and a decent tank. I am able to do level III missions in it just fine. Yes, I would get all the recommended certificates before flying it in level III missions.

ISD IonCharge

Posted - 2011.06.23 18:28:00 - [4]
 

There are no hard boundaries for when you should be changing which ships you're flying.
If you wish to move to a larger size of ship, there is very little point in doing so if you cannot use larger sized modules, i.e. for Amarr battleships you will want to have the skill large energy turret, to fit the correct weapons, as well as being able to use other modules such as large armor repairers.

The real point about training skills up is that larger ships tend to be far less effective at lower skill levels than smaller ships at lower skill levels, taking size into account, in no small part due to the accuracy of large weapons vs small targets - you will need well-trained skills to be able to apply your damage correctly, and have supporting skills such as to use drones to deal with small targets efficiently. Without these, you may find that flying a battlecruiser is more effective in terms of what you can achieve in a set amount of time.

As a rough guideline, I would recommend not moving to cruiser until you have the skills for medium weapons and fittings (at which point you may aswell get one immediately); battlecruisers are generally not recommended for your first ~10 days as you should be training plenty of supporting skills to levels 3/4 in that initial time frame, and battleships should come after the 4-6 week mark, depending on how focused your training has been.

Of course, you can also spend your first 6 months in a cruiser and never move up to battleships, it all depends on what you want to do with it and how happy you are flying a ship at a 'passable' rather than 'very good' level.
However, it is also worth mentioning that there is quite a bit of relative comparison here - a 'passable' battleship is still (especially in pve) far more potent than a 'good' cruiser, simply in terms of the raw damage it can output and tank. Drones are fairly vital though as missions will have frigate targets at any level.

In terms of certificates, they're just there as guidelines to help you plan your training.
My personal recommendation tends to be, if you wish to go for a new ship class, make sure you have the skills to fit it out correctly (T2 modules are preferred but certainly not necessary, especially for weapons) and then start working on your supporting skills.
Supporting skills in this case should be taken to mean drone skills at a level enough to field 5 combat drones (preferably T2, but again, not necessary, initially), and then just work your way through the "core competency" certificate tree, eventually aiming for Core Competency Elite, though this is not likely something you will get in your first year, as some of those skills are slightly lower priority than other things you will have available to train.

Angela Spears
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:41:00 - [5]
 

OK thanks for the replies and info. As always, it gives me alot to chew on. I plan on PvE'ing for now. If I ever pvp I'll most likely stick to Frigs since they are probably my favorite ships.

Cathleia
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:45:00 - [6]
 

I'd recommend to get a drake if you're aiming for PvE.

Angela Spears
Posted - 2011.06.23 18:52:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Cathleia
I'd recommend to get a drake if you're aiming for PvE.


I'm about to admit a flaw....

When I first started, I was deciding which ships to chose soley based on looks. I like the Gallente and Amarr ships very much looks wise. I was really leaning toward Gallente cause I thought having a lot of drones would be fun. Then I read about Amarr not having to worry about running out of ammo since they use Laser's. Well, that is what made the decision for me.

I know the drake is a good ship from what I've read, but I think it's ugly. I'll stick with Amarr since they look cool, and I never have to worry about running out of ammo. Cheesy and shallow I know, but it is what it is.

VKhaun Vex
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:54:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Angela Spears
Originally by: Cathleia
I'd recommend to get a drake if you're aiming for PvE.


I'm about to admit a flaw....

When I first started, I was deciding which ships to chose soley based on looks.


Nothing wrong with that.
I'm the same way.

The Harbinger is a common recommendation, but it's final turret is placed in a strange way, with one on top and one on the bottom off center, and it's definitely not the coolest design.
I would send you to the Navy Issue Omen and see if the extra slots and rigs are enough of an upgrade to keep you in a cruiser for a while (Don't miss the 25mb/sec drones!), or skip right to the Navy Issue Armageddon if you want a battleship. Preview those on the market. The slick black and white paint scheme will sell you REAL quick. Navy Geddon looks like one of those monsters from Pitch Black.

I'm in a Jita station right now and it's 300mil for a Navy Geddon, 70mil for the Navy Omen here in The Forge. Regular Amarr ships can look bland, but the Abaddon does it right. You have to put eight turrets on it, or the toothless grin will irk you. That one is around 135mil here.

Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:23:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Angela Spears
Originally by: Cathleia
I'd recommend to get a drake if you're aiming for PvE.


I'm about to admit a flaw....

When I first started, I was deciding which ships to chose soley based on looks. I like the Gallente and Amarr ships very much looks wise. I was really leaning toward Gallente cause I thought having a lot of drones would be fun. Then I read about Amarr not having to worry about running out of ammo since they use Laser's. Well, that is what made the decision for me.

I know the drake is a good ship from what I've read, but I think it's ugly. I'll stick with Amarr since they look cool, and I never have to worry about running out of ammo. Cheesy and shallow I know, but it is what it is.


A Harbinger will complete level 3 missions quicker and with more ****ing style than a Drake could ever muster.

Why does everyone recommend the Drake?

Simply, because its so incredibly easy to fly. You only need to stay within max range of missiles, and then just lock > F1 > repeat to win. If you learn how to apply damage effectively in your Harbinger (or Omen tbh) then you're learning a lot more about the combat mechanics as you go. This is useful whether you're the attacker or defender, PVE or PVP.

Before you move up a ship class, try to work out how your skills will work with the ship. Use EFT to fit out the ship. Can you fit a full rack of the proper sized guns? Can you get it cap stable? How good is my tank? Am I even doing more damage in this than in my smaller ship?

But don't be risk adverse, because the one thing that is worse than losing your ship is never using it in the first place. Ultimately, only you can decide whether you are ready. Get into your head that you COULD lose this ship. Do you still want to use it, is its possible destruction a larger threat than the possible gain inherent in using it?

There aren't too many level 3's that will stress a well flown and skilled battlecruiser. Use eve-survival and make sure you know what you're getting into.

More so than anything, just give it a go.

Oh and Amarr ships are the sexist. It is ABSOLUTELY a legitimate reason to fly them. And by the time you're using scorch in your guns, you'll be laughing at Drakes.

Angela Spears
Posted - 2011.06.24 01:46:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Lady Go Diveher
Originally by: Angela Spears
Originally by: Cathleia
I'd recommend to get a drake if you're aiming for PvE.


I'm about to admit a flaw....

When I first started, I was deciding which ships to chose soley based on looks. I like the Gallente and Amarr ships very much looks wise. I was really leaning toward Gallente cause I thought having a lot of drones would be fun. Then I read about Amarr not having to worry about running out of ammo since they use Laser's. Well, that is what made the decision for me.

I know the drake is a good ship from what I've read, but I think it's ugly. I'll stick with Amarr since they look cool, and I never have to worry about running out of ammo. Cheesy and shallow I know, but it is what it is.


A Harbinger will complete level 3 missions quicker and with more ****ing style than a Drake could ever muster.

Why does everyone recommend the Drake?

Simply, because its so incredibly easy to fly. You only need to stay within max range of missiles, and then just lock > F1 > repeat to win. If you learn how to apply damage effectively in your Harbinger (or Omen tbh) then you're learning a lot more about the combat mechanics as you go. This is useful whether you're the attacker or defender, PVE or PVP.

Before you move up a ship class, try to work out how your skills will work with the ship. Use EFT to fit out the ship. Can you fit a full rack of the proper sized guns? Can you get it cap stable? How good is my tank? Am I even doing more damage in this than in my smaller ship?

But don't be risk adverse, because the one thing that is worse than losing your ship is never using it in the first place. Ultimately, only you can decide whether you are ready. Get into your head that you COULD lose this ship. Do you still want to use it, is its possible destruction a larger threat than the possible gain inherent in using it?

There aren't too many level 3's that will stress a well flown and skilled battlecruiser. Use eve-survival and make sure you know what you're getting into.

More so than anything, just give it a go.

Oh and Amarr ships are the sexist. It is ABSOLUTELY a legitimate reason to fly them. And by the time you're using scorch in your guns, you'll be laughing at Drakes.


Almost like you're reading my mind concerning my liking of the Amarr ships Very Happy

One thing I have noticed since I started flying my Omen, is learning how to change out my laser crystals out on the fly to maximize damage for the range I'm firing at. Of course you always start out at max range, but if you're fighting more than 5 baddies at a time, a few tend to get to you of course. Also, when they're too close, to keep focus on the ranged target and let my 3 little light drones kill those that have gotten in too close.

I know this is extremely basic, but for me, someone who has played games like WoW and Rift in the past, I really feel like I'm making alot of decisions that really effect the outcome of a fight, as oppose to hitting 5 or six buttons all the time and falling asleep.

I've have been kicking the idea of trying out an Arbitrator for the drones. I only have 3 drones in my omen, but they are kind of cool. I thought it might be fun to try a fit out where my drones do all the work.

Quinc4623
Posted - 2011.06.24 03:32:00 - [11]
 

It does sound like you're ready for a Harbinger. I personally fly Minmatar, but I've heard good things. One note is that for Battle cruisers and larger Battleships it is worthwhile to get Capacitor Control Circuits, a rig that improves your capacitor. They're too expensive for a basic Omen, (spend more on the rigs than the ship LOL) but very helpful on higher level missions. You can always buy the Harbinger now, and get the rigs later. Cheaper rigs go well with frigates and cruisers. The Drake is very popular because it has powerful defense and long range, though lower firepower and poor maneuverability, vulnerable to Battleships in PVP. Ironically the Hurricane is equally powerful because it is the opposite, firepower + speed.

Fortunately most of the skills useful in a cruiser are good for almost any size ship. "Medium ..." skills will transfer to a Battlecruiser, which is technically a medium ship. BCs use medium turrets and launchers, just more of them. Similar to Destroyers vs Frigates. There are other directions, but I wouldn't recommend them. A properly equipped BC is much better than an entry level Battleship. Tech 2 ships are powerful, but very expensive and take forever to train towards compared to the Tech 1 BC. Also, I would try Lv3 missions long before you tackle Lv 4 missions. Generally lv1 = Frigates, Lv 2 = Cruisers, lv 3 = Battlecruisers, lv 4 = Battleships.

Angela Spears
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Quinc4623
It does sound like you're ready for a Harbinger. I personally fly Minmatar, but I've heard good things. One note is that for Battle cruisers and larger Battleships it is worthwhile to get Capacitor Control Circuits, a rig that improves your capacitor. They're too expensive for a basic Omen, (spend more on the rigs than the ship LOL) but very helpful on higher level missions. You can always buy the Harbinger now, and get the rigs later. Cheaper rigs go well with frigates and cruisers. The Drake is very popular because it has powerful defense and long range, though lower firepower and poor maneuverability, vulnerable to Battleships in PVP. Ironically the Hurricane is equally powerful because it is the opposite, firepower + speed.

Fortunately most of the skills useful in a cruiser are good for almost any size ship. "Medium ..." skills will transfer to a Battlecruiser, which is technically a medium ship. BCs use medium turrets and launchers, just more of them. Similar to Destroyers vs Frigates. There are other directions, but I wouldn't recommend them. A properly equipped BC is much better than an entry level Battleship. Tech 2 ships are powerful, but very expensive and take forever to train towards compared to the Tech 1 BC. Also, I would try Lv3 missions long before you tackle Lv 4 missions. Generally lv1 = Frigates, Lv 2 = Cruisers, lv 3 = Battlecruisers, lv 4 = Battleships.


Cool, sounds fun, I'll start looking into getting a BC.


 

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