open All Channels
seplocked Intergalactic Summit
blankseplocked Loyalists, what is Sansha's dream?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

N'maro Makari
Posted - 2011.06.23 16:24:00 - [1]
 

As most of you know, Kuvakei's head has come over the horizon, along with an army, claiming that he will once more lead us to a Utopian alternative to the 4 empires.

Therefore, I call upon Loyalists to the Nation to come and justify their actions.

Is there a final end? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

The citizens of New Eden wish to hear.

Dilaro thagriin
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:07:00 - [2]
 

They don't know.
He never told them.

They all babble something about 'universal peace' but seriously, given the methods they are using, can anyone truly believe that tripe anymore?

Leeroy McJenkins
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:11:00 - [3]
 

There is already an alternative to the four empires and from what I've seen, the Sanshas do not have sufficient military force to make Kuvakei's dream a reality anyway.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:37:00 - [4]
 

The end will come when Kuvakei's head comes over the horizion...

...on a stick.



EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:42:00 - [5]
 

TWO IT LOST OF BWAlNS!

Laenira Shalatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 22:44:00 - [6]
 

from what I have seen with Kuvakei. He is only a child with toys.

Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.24 02:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: N'maro Makari
As most of you know, Kuvakei's head has come over the horizon, along with an army, claiming that he will once more lead us to a Utopian alternative to the 4 empires.

Therefore, I call upon Loyalists to the Nation to come and justify their actions.

Is there a final end? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

The citizens of New Eden wish to hear.


Very strange.

The citizens of New Eden have heard our voices in the past and seen our actions for themselves. Direct action was done in showcasing our benevolent goals, thus I do not understand the purpose of your request.

Would you elaborate?

Jason Galente
Gallente
mishima ryu
Posted - 2011.06.24 02:33:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: Jason Galente on 24/06/2011 02:37:59
Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Originally by: N'maro Makari
As most of you know, Kuvakei's head has come over the horizon, along with an army, claiming that he will once more lead us to a Utopian alternative to the 4 empires.

Therefore, I call upon Loyalists to the Nation to come and justify their actions.

Is there a final end? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

The citizens of New Eden wish to hear.


Very strange.

The citizens of New Eden have heard our voices in the past and seen our actions for themselves. Direct action was done in showcasing our benevolent goals, thus I do not understand the purpose of your request.

Would you elaborate?


I've failed to notice anything 'benevolent' about Sansha when I'm minding my own business and they decide to point their guns in my direction. Perhaps you can explain this?

OP, I believe this should explain much regarding your question.

Sansha Kuvakei CONCORD Files

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.06.24 03:25:00 - [9]
 

Have you considered asking him yourself?

Per Degaton
Posted - 2011.06.24 07:14:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Per Degaton on 24/06/2011 07:14:41

Gen Kumon
Caldari
Naqam
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.24 07:17:00 - [11]
 

The Master's dream? Unity. Within Nation, there is no pain, no hate, no discord. All those who have been uplifted by Sansha Kuvakei are at peace, a peace they couldn't achieve via material wealth, as the Gallente would tell you, or by worshiping God, as the Amarr say. Neither was it through the false sense of freedom the Matari tribes crow about, or by slaving away for some faceless corporation for the good of the State.

This peace is gained by understanding one's fellow man, by becoming one with them. Perhaps there is another path...but if there is, that path is not being walked by any that lead in New Eden. The only options are to join with Nation, or watch as humanity destroys itself in meaningless violence.

Sansha Kuvakei is a messiah, not sent by any god, but self-made. He, and only he, has the vision needed to lead humanity to it's next step in it's endless evolution, and to save us from ourselves. If you refuse to see that...well, I don't hate you. Pity, on the other hand...

N'maro Makari
Posted - 2011.06.24 12:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Originally by: N'maro Makari
As most of you know, Kuvakei's head has come over the horizon, along with an army, claiming that he will once more lead us to a Utopian alternative to the 4 empires.

Therefore, I call upon Loyalists to the Nation to come and justify their actions.

Is there a final end? Is there light at the end of the tunnel?

The citizens of New Eden wish to hear.


Very strange.

The citizens of New Eden have heard our voices in the past and seen our actions for themselves. Direct action was done in showcasing our benevolent goals, thus I do not understand the purpose of your request.

Would you elaborate?


Do I have a choice wether I participate in your dream?

Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.24 18:55:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Ghost Hunter on 24/06/2011 18:56:11
Originally by: N'maro Makari
Do I have a choice wether I participate in your dream?


You have a choice.


Originally by: Jason Galente
I've failed to notice anything 'benevolent' about Sansha when I'm minding my own business and they decide to point their guns in my direction. Perhaps you can explain this?



I am speaking in context to the upliftings during the last year. I believe you are speaking of the other prominent galactic operations - those I cannot offer my own insight on. My duties are elsewhere.


Edit = Clarifying statements

Niraia
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:19:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Edited by: Ghost Hunter on 24/06/2011 18:56:11
Originally by: N'maro Makari
Do I have a choice wether I participate in your dream?


You have a choice.


Until Ghost steals your alliance and bans you from all Nation channels!

If you're interested, I'd recommend serving by yourself. Key capsuleer "loyalists" do not share Kuvakei's vision of unity, and mostly serve their own wallets and egos.

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.25 07:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Gen Kumon
All those who have been uplifted by Sansha Kuvakei are at peace, a peace they couldn't achieve via material wealth, as the Gallente would tell you, or by worshiping God, as the Amarr say.


More accurately, worship falls as steps along labyrinthine paths toward understanding God. It is the understanding, not steps, which brings peace.

Nation's proposition that such peace might derive from technological gimmickry, rather than considered journey, condemns it to separation from the divine. I had in the past held some hope Kuvakei's madness remained amenable to redemption. However, this focus on instant elevation testifies to the grip of an insurmountable conceit: a prophecy that Man need only more gadgetry to stand in Heaven.

The Master's dream is a mirage. The sooner recognized, the sooner humanity might once again walk paths of true understanding.

Gen Kumon
Caldari
Naqam
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:30:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Gosakumori Noh
The Master's dream is a mirage. The sooner recognized, the sooner humanity might once again walk paths of true understanding.


My faith is in a very real man, who has shown himself to have a brilliant mind, and to be a great leader of men. He promises us a glorious future, and he is delivering on his promise.

Your faith is in a ghost, an imagined spirit, whom rose from nothing more than the fevered dreams and grasps for power of some ancient primitive shamans, desperate for more control over their fellow man.

Leave your false god in the ancient past where he belongs, and embrace the future. Nation can give you paradise in life, not only in death. In fact, within Nation, death is...only a dream. Nation is forever, and those within Nation *are* Nation, and are also eternal.

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.25 18:49:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Gen Kumon
My faith is in a very real man, who has shown himself to have a brilliant mind, and to be a great leader of men. He promises us a glorious future, and he is delivering on his promise.


I have some sympathy for those loyal to Kuvakei, as they did at least try to shake humanity from its reverie with an existential threat. Yet these past few days, a miniskirt has generated more horror than accumulated across nearly a year of "war" with Nation. The "Master's" forces are eagerly sought, not to turn back his tide, but as reservoirs of liquidity to be milked for all they are worth.

Your "god" is a material resource; your future, a decomposing fossil.

In contrast, my "ghost" hovers beyond the finite contours of human vanity. Visions of this spirit have inspired, undiluted, for tens of thousands of years, now. When our civilization falls, as it inevitably must, the priests and shaman who rise from its ashes ten thousand years hence will call out to this same spirit - even as their own feeble Kuvakei's proclaim themselves the "real" arbiters of paradise.

The door to Faith is always open, however, should you chose to rise above decomposition.

Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.25 22:35:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Niraia
Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Edited by: Ghost Hunter on 24/06/2011 18:56:11
Originally by: N'maro Makari
Do I have a choice wether I participate in your dream?


You have a choice.


Until Ghost steals your alliance and bans you from all Nation channels!

If you're interested, I'd recommend serving by yourself. Key capsuleer "loyalists" do not share Kuvakei's vision of unity, and mostly serve their own wallets and egos.


When you were removed from SHARE, I made it a point to give you space and time to yourself. Understandably, the fall out of such an event is bound to leave individuals polarized. I took this time to reflect on myself and my decisions, and it was from that reflection you were compensated for the 1 (one) billion ISK you initially invested at the creation of SHARE. I could not deny myself that I had taken that much from you - and thus gave it back. Alliance wide services I can not compensate you for, considering you yourself operated and removed them at your whims.

The security policies that resulted in your removal from the communication relays were consulted by more individuals than just myself. In this I reflected and sought the opinions of my security peers. It was a tentative move, but one your malicious actions only continue to reaffirm.

Master Sansha sees and watches us all - and I make no gestures to hide myself from His gaze. In this I have prostrated myself in the public domain of allies, enemies, and the people, for all to see. To you personally, Niraia, I have given my apologies for my actions and compensations for what I feel is yours. Your repetition of this prattle I can only see as a lack of the same good will.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:48:00 - [19]
 

You really seem to have a problem with relationships, don't you Ghost?



N'maro Makari
Posted - 2011.06.26 17:05:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Edited by: Ghost Hunter on 24/06/2011 18:56:11
Originally by: N'maro Makari
Do I have a choice wether I participate in your dream?


You have a choice.




But you see, when the Nation comes into secure space and kidnaps civilians, rather than picking a fight with the capsuleer class, I think its not hard to acknowledge that the notion we are being offered a choice is a big thing to swallow.

Niraia
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.06.26 17:40:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Your repetition of this prattle I can only see as a lack of the same good will.


I don't hold much good will towards alliance thieves, no.

Don't bother mentioning services, you made them impossible to run, while many others (some of whom you know) have been benefiting from them for some time without incident.

My actions towards you and the rest of SHARE were never malicious, up until the moment you stole from me. That you gave me the creation fee back is of no consequence. A thief with guilt is still a thief.

You'll get what you deserve, soon enough. Belittle my comments all you wish, it'll make your fall all the more enjoyable.

:unity:

Gen Kumon
Caldari
Naqam
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.26 20:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Gosakumori Noh


Your "god" is a material resource; your future, a decomposing fossil.

In contrast, my "ghost" hovers beyond the finite contours of human vanity.



Your empty faith blinds you...but of course, you think my focus on the material world blinds me. Neither of us shall convince the other with words. But, I suppose, there are ways other than words.

If your faith does not allow you to believe the will of your god can be stopped or swayed...will your faith survive the death of your precious empire, as it's people are reborn within Nation?

So, in the end...a ghost against a living man? I accept your challenge. We'll see if the spectral hand of your god can trump the living will of Master Kuvakei.

Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.26 22:35:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Niraia
I don't hold much good will towards alliance thieves, no.

Don't bother mentioning services, you made them impossible to run, while many others (some of whom you know) have been benefiting from them for some time without incident.

My actions towards you and the rest of SHARE were never malicious, up until the moment you stole from me. That you gave me the creation fee back is of no consequence. A thief with guilt is still a thief.

You'll get what you deserve, soon enough. Belittle my comments all you wish, it'll make your fall all the more enjoyable.

:unity:



Impossible to run? I know only of my refusals to consolidate sensitive information into your one data array as a precautionary security measure. If the maintenance of these services were inhibited by me, then I did not know. As you ask, however, I will leave this be.

I was not clear it seems. From what I have seen thus far, I only understand your actions as focused against myself. I will not allow the present to taint the memories of the past, and I do not mean to convey you were malicious during your time in SHARE. Contrary to that, the generosity you displayed in what you provided for everyone only made me ... happy. I may not understand your labor completely, but I know enough to be unquestionably appreciative of your struggles. That was what motivated me to reflect upon myself, not any guilt.

I would hope for reconciliation to a point of agreed difference, but I understand. I leave the finality of this in the hands of Master Sansha.

Originally by: N'maro Makari
Originally by: Ghost Hunter
Edited by: Ghost Hunter on 24/06/2011 18:56:11
Originally by: N'maro Makari
Do I have a choice wether I participate in your dream?


You have a choice.




But you see, when the Nation comes into secure space and kidnaps civilians, rather than picking a fight with the capsuleer class, I think its not hard to acknowledge that the notion we are being offered a choice is a big thing to swallow.


The notion of free will has corroded the notion of choice from how I mean it. The choices you, as a Capsuleer have, are vastly different than the choices a citizen upon a planet has. You stand at a rare plateau where you can choose to come to the Nation and realize it or not. Planetary citizens can choose to come to the Nation, but they can never make the journey. They think to have a choice, when the world does not provide for it, then they can not make the choice real.

It is for this, when the choice to go towards utopia appears within their reach, that many are eager to take a hold of it.

Josh Vermanek
Gallente
Eleutherian Guard
Posted - 2011.06.27 05:11:00 - [24]
 

Sansha's dream is a dream of an endless supply of cheap and unquestioning labor and soldiers. Not much beyond that I reckon.

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.27 06:50:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Gen Kumon
If your faith does not allow you to believe the will of your god can be stopped or swayed...will your faith survive the death of your precious empire, as it's people are reborn within Nation?



I spent the day far more concerned about a roaming hydra than your evil genius, though I do anticipate eventually he will demonstrate a menace that must be addressed, not simply harvested.

In any event, my faith has lasted tens of thousands of years. It will not only survive the potential demise of my empire, but as I have already said, that of our entire cluster. This contention derives from that existing material fact, etched into the heavy sandstone of our history, demonstrating the power of immaterial belief over material decomposition.

One might think from the name of your corporation that you would understand this. Or do you believe you are being "clever" trying to diminish something you do not understand? Consider how many material despots the mythology you invoke necessarily survived in order for your "joke" to become possible, and compare that longevity with your ersatz Bane of Faith.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.27 13:37:00 - [26]
 

Well said Ms. Noh.

The thing that is lost on Sansha and his meat puppets like Ghost, is that over the course of several millenia, the Empire has come across every variation of every political or religious model you can concieve of; and eventually defeated them. There is nothing new with what Sansha is trying to accomplish and like those who have gone before, he will eventually burn at the stake. And then he and his brood will be erased from history.

Petty despots like Sansha are a dime a dozen.

I'm looking for the guy who is supplying the dimes.


Carcosa Hali
True Slave Foundations
Posted - 2011.06.27 18:51:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk


over the course of several millenia, the Empire has come across every variation of every political or religious model you can concieve of; and eventually defeated them.


Yes.. you were so successful at crushing the Federation.. and the Minmatar.. and the Raiders, and the Jove. My, you were so amazingly thorough, you managed even to take out that god of the Caldari, the ISK. Good show.

The awful truth that you have to face, Mokk; is that we are Everywhere. We are among the Federation, and the Minmatar, and oh so especially among the Caldari. We are among the Raiders, and the Angels, and as you might have heard, the Jove as well.

But most of all, Mokk... You cannot begin to imagine how highly we have climbed among your church. You will have to burn down the entire cluster to eradicate us.. yourself included.

And even then, we will live on... in the secret places in between...

We don't have to commit macrocide in order to win. You however, do.

Happy hunting. Smile

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.27 19:10:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Carcosa Hali
The awful truth that you have to face, Mokk; is that we are Everywhere. We are among the Federation, and the Minmatar, and oh so especially among the Caldari. We are among the Raiders, and the Angels, and as you might have heard, the Jove as well.

But most of all, Mokk... You cannot begin to imagine how highly we have climbed among your church. You will have to burn down the entire cluster to eradicate us.. yourself included.

And even then, we will live on... in the secret places in between...


You forgot to include the "Bwahahaha," Ms. Hali. It's compulsory after Unverifiable Declarations for Spreading Fear and Dischord, you know.

It's in the manual.

If your statement were true, of course, that would be trouble-- at least until someone finishes working out the scanner technology for detecting an implanted Sansha agent. The one for detecting memetic modifications will probably be trickier, but those unfortunates at least seem to typically have ... symptoms. A certain CONCORD agent comes immediately to mind.

Given the motivation, I doubt it'll be very long, and that's assuming Nation infiltrators (outside of the usual misguidedly-idealistic fools) are even really a problem.

And if it does get too far ... well, I usually balk at extreme solutions, but this case seems worthy of an exception.

Difficult, yes. Impossible, no. I'd even call it an appealing challenge.

And that's if you're telling the truth.

Gen Kumon
Caldari
Naqam
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:07:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Gen Kumon on 27/06/2011 20:07:39
Edited by: Gen Kumon on 27/06/2011 20:07:15
Words are wasted on your, Pilot Noh. You hold your faith up as a shield to deflect anything that would conflict with your worldview, including, if not especially, facts. I truly pity you. In the end, when Nation stands victorious over your precious Empire, the only voices raised in worship to god will be Omir Sarikusa's flock. The rest of your people will be Nation, a collective, man-made deity, one that can actually effect the world directly, instead of merely through some dusty, rotting tomes.

To Pilot Mokk...your Empire had it's golden age. One that is long over, ended by the Jovians and the Matari. It is nothing but a bloated corpse now, not even realizing that it has begun to rot. And I assure you, Nation is like nothing the Amarr have faced before. It is no mere rabble held together by a demagogue. Nor is it some fractious republic. Nation has one voice, one mind. It is the voice and mind of Sansha Kuvakei, who *is* Nation. And in Nation, there is no death.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.27 20:35:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Gen Kumon
It is the voice and mind of Sansha Kuvakei, who *is* Nation. And in Nation, there is no death.


So, by you, in the best case scenario, we can all spend eternity as extensions of a Caldari arms manufacturer.

... Yes, I know, it's not quite that limited. But considering how badly Kuvakei botched his handling of the original Nation's international relations, it seems optimistic to the point of foolhardiness to think that surrendering your own will and judgment to his, forever, is a good idea.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only