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JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:17:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: JC Ferguson on 29/07/2011 06:23:17
Originally by: Variel Casaubon
Edited by: Variel Casaubon on 29/07/2011 05:16:05
Considering that this game came out a very long time ago, it has to upgrade its graphics every now and again in order to stay interesting in the world of games that are constantly moving forward. They have to intrigue customers some how.

If your computer crashes because of the CQ then perhaps you should either upgrade or move to an older game. If your computer can play recent games that came out this year, then it should have no problem with the CQ. They are giving you ample amount of time to gather $500-$800 for a new PC by giving you the option to turn off the CQ in the mean time (should you be unable to run it).

As for old content? Things change. You wouldn't use your old Nokia with the classical music ring tone today would you? They are simply making this mandatory in order to remove the need to support old content. Microsoft does it all the time. New Windows? New drivers.

As for NON-VANITY micro transactions. Why can't people understand that they have been in the game for several years! Why exactly are you just now getting all up in arms about it?

You do know of such a thing called PLEX right? Neutral I pay $15 and in return I get ~400 mill ISK. I can then either use that ISK to buy a ship or a character with better skills from someone else. Granted you may need some more real life currency to buy a worthwhile character from someone, but from what we've seen from the monocles, buying skills wont be cheap. $50 for a million skill points maybe? That's fair I think. If it turns out to be cheaper, then I might even consider buying it instead of waiting for months to get my stupid carrier training done.

In fact I prefer it this way. I can keep my character instead of playing someone else's. Much more entertaining. As for the vanity items? Who cares if they're in the game? Someone will buy them, and CCP will make money with which they'll draw you some more fancy ships. Those without a fashion sense can stick to their sweatpants and wife beaters. Laughing

EDIT: spelling/grammar.


One of the better dev alt responses I've received.

As for graphics/my computer. Don't market/design the game in a way that requires multiple accounts and then make incarna mandatory.

As for old content. It's not old content I'm asking to preserve. It's original vision. Harsh but fair sandbox. You can update content and preserve it. CCP hasn't.

As for non-vanity microtransactions. You know the difference between PLEX (which doesn't create things out of thin air) and Aurum (which do,) right? Even Malcanis knows the difference and he isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. If you really don't, read his thread. It's not too bad.

As for real life currency. You live in Iceland, right? I wouldn't expect you to know what real life currency is. Enjoy your future in aluminum smelting/fishing.

As for vanity microtransactions. If designing vanity items didn't rob resources from designing Internet Spaceships, I wouldn't care about vanity items. But it does. And I do.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:34:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 06:34:52
Originally by: JC Ferguson

One of the better dev alt responses I've received.


Typical trollish way to try and (fail to) discredit someone's argument when you can't counter them.

Quote:
As for graphics/my computer. Don't market/design the game in a way that requires multiple accounts and then make incarna mandatory.


No part of the game REQUIRES multiple accounts. If you want to pay to win (which is exactly what having multiple accounts is, no more, no less), then you might want to pay for an updated PC, which will be much more useful in general than multiple accounts on an online game.

Quote:
As for old content. It's not old content I'm asking to preserve. It's original vision. Harsh but fair sandbox. You can update content and preserve it. CCP hasn't.



Because you say so? Or maybe now EVE is unfair because other people have more talent with the character creator than you do, and you're getting epeen envy? :D

Quote:
As for non-vanity microtransactions. You know the difference between PLEX (which doesn't create things out of thin air) and Aurum (which do,) right? Even Malcanis knows the difference and he isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. If you really don't, read his thread. It's not too bad.


PLEX creates in-game-money out of thin air, and the last time i checked money was still a "thing".

Quote:
As for vanity microtransactions. If designing vanity items didn't rob resources from designing Internet Spaceships, I wouldn't care about vanity items. But it does. And I do.


Because you know how resources are allocated inside CCP right?

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:35:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: JC Ferguson on 29/07/2011 06:37:28
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 05:51:14
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

CCP asks its players to invest a significant amount of time/resources to its game. On top of that we pay for everything at CCP. They owe us gratitude, honesty, and improved gameplay over time.


I won't even go in detail about all the ridiculous points you posted, because I'm rather sleepy and your sense of false entitlement is rather distasteful. I'll just limit myself to responding to the part above.

CCP is a business providing a service. Investing a significant amount of time/resources to provide such a service.

You pay for a service, that they provide. If you like it, you continue to pay for it and take advantage of it. If not, no one holds you at a gunpoint to do so. You can stop paying and stop receiving the service.

To put it down simply. They give you your time/money's worth. Henceforth, they "owe" you absolutely nothing.


Son, please don't use words you don't understand (like henceforth.) I know it's hard for a noob who flies badgers through rancer to follow this debate but I'd suggest you sit this one out until you learn a little more about the game (and the players.)

Kais N'ktal
Caldari
Ordos Humanitas
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:41:00 - [94]
 

Wow, OP sounds like the new entry level guy for BHP. He clearly knows how to run the show with his detailed action plan and risk management plans.

"If I was advising them, here's where I'd start:"

If you were advising them, you would be fired.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:42:00 - [95]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 06:44:58
Originally by: JC Ferguson

Son, please don't use words you don't understand (like henceforth.) I know it's hard for a noob who flies badgers through rancer to follow this debate but I'd suggest you sit this one out until you learn a little more about the game (and the players.)


Oh don't worry son. I've been around plenty enough to know that the forum is no representation of "the players", and is normally populated by the most inconsequential and petulant trolls, that can do nothing else than taunting someone that just demolished their arguments, because they have no actual solid argument to counter them with Rolling Eyes

Do try harder. 1/10 so far, for the effort.

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:46:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Athena Tarsis
Recover from ... what? Irrational rage from a sad little troll who still plays the game he professes to despise because he hates a modicum of change and all this forum nonsense makes him feel somehow important?

Nothing to recover from.
bingo.

Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:48:00 - [97]
 

Edited by: Pesky LaRue on 29/07/2011 06:48:48
Originally by: JC Ferguson
Son, please don't use words you don't understand (like henceforth.)
...he used it correctly, so you might want to climb down off that high-horse, you're facing the wrong way.
Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Oh don't worry son. I've been around plenty enough to know that the forum is no representation of "the players", and is normally populated by the most inconsequential and petulant trolls, that can do nothing else than taunting someone that just demolished their arguments, because they have no actual solid argument to counter them with
Interesting concept.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:52:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
I won't even go in detail about all the ridiculous points you posted, ...

can do nothing else than taunting someone that just demolished their arguments, because they have no actual solid argument to counter them with ...


So let me get this straight, the noob who flies a badger through rancer, and who is too tired to go into detail to refute my arguments is now accusing me of taunting him because he 'demolished' my arguments?

Sorry Sparky, maybe if you drink as much as Touborg and Gianturdo you'll believe that. The rest of us know otherwise.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.29 06:56:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 07:01:16
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 06:57:07
Originally by: JC Ferguson
So let me get this straight, the noob who flies a badger through rancer, and who is too tired to go into detail to refute my arguments is now accusing me of taunting him because he 'demolished' my arguments?


Actually i changed my mind and went in quite some detail here. Not that it's needed, really.

Quote:
Sorry Sparky, maybe if you drink as much as Touborg and Gianturdo you'll believe that. The rest of us know otherwise.


keep telling yourself that. But in the meanwhile all I hear from you are more taunts, while my argument that demolished yours still stands unchallenged.
The way you're trying to tip-dance around it is rather ungraceful, I'd say.

Still hovering around 1/10, but the effort bonus is fading. Rolling Eyes

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:01:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson
....

1. Temporary yes, but when removed the hangar will be back in some form and performance as good or better than pre Incarna .. that is what was said. Do try to keep up.
2. Why does vanity items bother you so much?
(Note: CCP doesn't even know how the hell Dust is going to affect anything yet so that future is unavailable as argument)
3. Sentimental value I get. In that case, the only way to do it would be to make it client specific as I have no desire to see a medley of old/new in my games .. my choice.
4. Huh? Where did I say that Eve is tip-top? Personally I have been crusading for FW, mining, aggression, BO, Super-C and balance improvements for years .. would love for them to double/triple resources to meet my demands.
But if I wasn't a demanding **** and found my little hidey-hole in Eve to be quite comfortable that desire would not exist .... hence my request for a definition of adequate.
6. Naive, no. Realistic, yes. Eve has on paper one of the oldest and best educated player-bases in the industry .. Eve also have a tendency to bring fervour into our lives which results in the very high forum/3rd party activity we have.
In short: CCP would need an insane amount of alts and significantly higher average IQs to even come close to competing with us.
7. CSM are a conduit, not a watchdog/ombudsman. Their "job" is to facilitate communication in both directions, nothing more nothing less.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:09:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 06:34:52
Originally by: JC Ferguson

One of the better dev alt responses I've received.


Typical trollish way to try and (fail to) discredit someone's argument when you can't counter them.

Quote:
As for graphics/my computer. Don't market/design the game in a way that requires multiple accounts and then make incarna mandatory.


No part of the game REQUIRES multiple accounts. If you want to pay to win (which is exactly what having multiple accounts is, no more, no less), then you might want to pay for an updated PC, which will be much more useful in general than multiple accounts on an online game.

Quote:
As for old content. It's not old content I'm asking to preserve. It's original vision. Harsh but fair sandbox. You can update content and preserve it. CCP hasn't.



Because you say so? Or maybe now EVE is unfair because other people have more talent with the character creator than you do, and you're getting epeen envy? :D

Quote:
As for non-vanity microtransactions. You know the difference between PLEX (which doesn't create things out of thin air) and Aurum (which do,) right? Even Malcanis knows the difference and he isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. If you really don't, read his thread. It's not too bad.


PLEX creates in-game-money out of thin air, and the last time i checked money was still a "thing".

Quote:
As for vanity microtransactions. If designing vanity items didn't rob resources from designing Internet Spaceships, I wouldn't care about vanity items. But it does. And I do.


Because you know how resources are allocated inside CCP right?


But just to be crystal clear I'll humor the young aspiring CSM delegate:

On dev alts:

If it sounds like a duck... I can only make educated guesses on which of my trolls are dev alts. If CCP were an ethical company they'd forbid their employees to post anonymously on forums, but they aren't and they don't so I can only do my best. No doubt my 'devdar' is not 100% accurate but I'd like to think it's reasonably accurate.

On multiple accounts:

CCP marketed and designed the game to strongly encourage multiple accounts and --- HOLY ****ING COW --- lots of us now have multiple accounts. 'Required' is irrelevant. 'Strongly encouraged by the developer both in marketing and game design' is sufficient. If you disagree with that, the troll meet-up is over there>>>>>>. Go pester the spankster.

On harsh but fair sandbox:

I honestly have no clue what you're on about here. I think you're out of your depth. EVE is supposed to be a harsh but fair sandbox game. I don't give a flying **** what you did or do or might do in character creator. I'd be happy to have my old avatar back. Can you replicate that in the character creator?

On PLEX P2W vs Aurum P2W:

Read the thread, buttmunch. If you still don't understand the difference, have someone 'splain it to you. It's right there in black and white. Rebut it if you disagree with it.

On CCP resources:

Yes, actually, I do know. Because they've told us. Those of us who don't fly badgers through rancer just might have a lot of information that you're not aware of.

tl;dr Charitably feeding noob troll. Yeah, I know, obvious troll is obvious. Sorry, my bad.

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:15:00 - [102]
 

God, it's still posting.

Abriael VonRosen
Caldari
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:26:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 07:44:36
Edited by: Abriael VonRosen on 29/07/2011 07:28:04
Originally by: JC Ferguson

If it sounds like a duck... I can only make educated guesses on which of my trolls are dev alts. If CCP were an ethical company they'd forbid their employees to post anonymously on forums, but they aren't and they don't so I can only do my best. No doubt my 'devdar' is not 100% accurate but I'd like to think it's reasonably accurate.


What you like to think is inconsequential. But it's sure very convienient of you to think so, considering that it helps you tip-dancing around arguments that you cannot counter.

If you think that everyone that likes this game (or even something near to a majority) is a dev, you're even more delusional than you look.

Quote:
CCP marketed and designed the game to strongly encourage multiple accounts and --- HOLY ****ING COW --- lots of us now have multiple accounts. 'Required' is irrelevant. 'Strongly encouraged by the developer both in marketing and game design' is sufficient.


I don't remember any communication from CCP threatening of banning you if you didn't have multiple accounts. Having them is your choice. You're very free to get a decent computer to support that choice, but it's indeed laughable that you demand to hold everyone back because otherwise you won't be able to pay to win :D

Quote:
I honestly have no clue what you're on about here. I think you're out of your depth. EVE is supposed to be a harsh but fair sandbox game.


Aside from the fact that EVE has never been fair, from day one, and has never been supposed to be, there's nothing less fair in the direction EVE is going towards nowadays than it has before.

Quote:
Read the thread, buttmunch. If you still don't understand the difference, have someone 'splain it to you. It's right there in black and white. Rebut it if you disagree with it.



I already rebutted it right here. There's really nothing more than need to be said. PLEX are indeed equivalent to paying to win, just as multiple accounts are.
You pay real money to receive an advantage in game. It's that simple. It doesn't matter where that advantage comes from. The post ypu linked is laughable, as RMT doesn't magically create money as well. Goldfarmers don't have magical ISK printers.

Quote:
Yes, actually, I do know. Because they've told us. Those of us who don't fly badgers through rancer just might have a lot of information that you're not aware of.


Maybe you should fly badgers through rancer if that'd help you learn that every developer of any sizable proportions has several teams that work on separate areas of content. In fact with incarna you got your little internet spaceships fit with new shiny turrets. Those don't model and animate by themselves, you know.

You seem to have very conveniently forgot something. Lemme remind you:

Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

CCP asks its players to invest a significant amount of time/resources to its game. On top of that we pay for everything at CCP. They owe us gratitude, honesty, and improved gameplay over time.


I won't even go in detail about all the ridiculous points you posted, because I'm rather sleepy and your sense of false entitlement is rather distasteful. I'll just limit myself to responding to the part above.

CCP is a business providing a service. Investing a significant amount of time/resources to provide such a service.

You pay for a service, that they provide. If you like it, you continue to pay for it and take advantage of it. If not, no one holds you at a gunpoint to do so. You can stop paying and stop receiving the service.

To put it down simply. They give you your time/money's worth. Henceforth, they "owe" you absolutely nothing.

You're now on the 0/10. The effort bonus has expired. Rolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:29:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
PLEX creates in-game-money out of thin air, and the last time i checked money was still a "thing".
No it does not.

JC Ferguson
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:50:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Abriael VonRosen
Random noob troll spewage.


Let me quote the Noir. dude here.

"God, it's still posting."

Re: dev alts

As "convienient" as you might think it is, I readily acknowledge I have no way of knowing with certainty which of my trolls are dev alts. If you have a solution for that problem, I'm happy to hear it.

"If you think that everyone ..." Straw man, meet noob troll.

Re: multiple accounts

Your argument is laughable. They marketed it and designed the game around it. That they didn't put a gun in my mouth and make me do it is beyond irrelevant. As I said, troll meet-up is thataway >>>>>>>>

Re: harsh but fair sandbox

More delusional nonsense from you:

"Aside from the fact that EVE has never been fair, from day one, and has never been supposed to be, there's nothing less fair in the direction EVE is going towards nowadays than it has before."

Now, if you mean that devs cheat and CCP is unethical, I agree, EVE hasn't been fair. But it's supposed to be. Harsh, but fair, sandbox. I'd love for a CCP dev to weigh in on this. If EVE isn't a harsh but fair sandbox game I'm definitely playing the wrong game. I'm having a little trouble with a noob who just a day or two ago flew a badger through rancer trying to tell me that he knows what EVE was on day one.

Re: PLEX P2W vs Aurum P2W

You didn't rebut anything. Read the first 2 posts in that thread. Express yourself in a way that at least demonstrates that you understood what was said. Obvious troll is obvious.

Re: FiS resources

Several teams working on FiS? Do tell what the names of those several teams are. You've got one team (BFF) that's supposed to be fixing bugs that's now working on a nullsec 'revamp' (bribe) for the botting/RMTing tools on CSM (and nerfing WH and functionality (fitting loadouts) when they're not doing that.) Who else? How many people?

You trolled well, young padawan. Hopefully someone a little less trollish than you learned something from my replies.

Fly safe.

KamikazeBrAzIl
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2011.07.29 07:54:00 - [106]
 

succesful trolling is succesful

Shpenat
Posted - 2011.07.29 11:17:00 - [107]
 

JC Ferguson, you should realize one thing.

EvE is NOT supposed to be "Internet Spaceships" only. And CCP stated it many times.

EvE is supposed to be "full sci-fi simulator" and as such "internet Space Barbies" are as much part of the EvE as "Internet Spaceships"

When you understand that, you will realize that your points 1-4 (from OP) are invalid.

In my opinion the only valid point is point #7.

Bal'Ayle
Minmatar
Exodia Industries
Posted - 2011.07.29 13:29:00 - [108]
 

cough* how can no one realise that the NEX doesnt effect "eve" at all, its just extra optional content for those that want to take RP the next step further and walk around in station with their digital e-peen transormed into clothes instead of that ship everyone wants

personally i think this is a great step forward for ccp, they are one of the only games companys out there that constantly push forward defiantly refusing to be cowed into submitting slow over thought poorly imagined ideas.

we ALL loved the idea of incarna before hand, the new avatars look awesome (not sure about the weird protruding second elbow i seem to have aquired but hell who cares) the station inviroments are a little stale station by station as they are near identical but im sure they will like habbo hotel allow us to change their shape and colour scheme furniture etc thru the nex which is GENIUS!

i love that if i want to just sit back and discuss things with corp mates i can do it in a sound responsive environment i set up in a station iv made into a home that i customised and paid for thru the in-game economy.

how can that not excite you people O.o

old avatars weren't that good and looked dated. incarna is completely optional already, go under your graphics settings and stop loading station environment like i do on my work comp. micro transactions will only add to the game, it does and will do nothing game changing, just give you the option to customise things more which we ALL complained about not too long ago.

posting things as their alts is completely fair, they cant as an official rep show their own opinions as much as they can if they use their alts. a poor comparison but police here in london cant appear to be biast regardless of their personal opinions because it jeapodises the police's credibility. same for ccp, they are staff of a company and may support the decission for unrelated reasons to what they are allowed to say as ccp representatives.


oh and we dont pay for everything, we pay for a service they provide us - they provide us with free updates/expansions, an ACTIVE development team that talks to us and most of us are completely in love with the service they provide comparted to say other games companies that charge per expansion, dont realise anything until its 100% compatible

i recall buying the burning crusade for wow and discovering after wasting 30.00 that other then a level increase and outlands nearly everything else was either being patched in or just a reskin / slight remodel of pre-existing stuff, oh a few things were prettier and flying was cool but its nothing that didnt exsist before.

we all paid a subscription and 30.00 for that expansion, how pi**ed was i.

compare that with what we have here, a game that WE actively change thru opinions the CSM put forward for us.

hell find me ONE game where i can go, you know what this year im gona by that helpfull gm a beer and visit XCOUNTRYX the game is from and not be thrown out on my ear...

Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.07.29 13:33:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 29/07/2011 13:36:13
Originally by: Shpenat
JC Ferguson, you should realize one thing.

EvE is NOT supposed to be "Internet Spaceships" only. And CCP stated it many times.

EvE is supposed to be "full sci-fi simulator" and as such "internet Space Barbies" are as much part of the EvE as "Internet Spaceships"

When you understand that, you will realize that your points 1-4 (from OP) are invalid.

In my opinion the only valid point is point #7.


I don't see how Ferguson's points contradict the idea of EVE eventually becoming a full-blown s-f simulator. I applaud that vision, I want to see it succeed, I think the CQ (as a technical achievement) is a small step in the right direction.

The problem is more in the way that Incarna has been introduced and is being implemented, not the concept itself. Hell, most vets were totally excited about WiS when the idea was first mooted back in 2006 (I think it was?). Who wouldn't want to play in the world's greatest all-in s-f simulator?

But priorities, priorities. FiS is, at present, still the core game, and needs to work properly, be balanced, some features introduced in the past need to be more polished; also the core concept of the game isn't just instant pew-pew, it's a sandbox, a virtual world, and that needs to be nurtured, not endangered by harebrained MT schemes; also the lore needs to be respected, because it's some of the best lore in any game ever.

Also, despite the amazing technical achievement that is the Carbon character creator, the sense of style and design in clothing and accessories has fallen, with Incarna, from the imaginative standard initially implemented in EVE. (Gay Bikers In Space, in average-looking GAP clothes, with an average looking movie s-f sense of art design, is not as good as what we originally had, which was much more imaginative, mysterious, and fitting to the lore of human beings who have been separated from the rest of humanity for millennia.)

Also promises, promises. It was promised that CQ would be an OPTION from Hangar view, not the default view (the way it is now grates very badly against the lore). (And of course there are numerous other broken promises not directly connected with Incarna, but fuelling the rage about Incarna - probably unfairly, but there you go.)

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.29 13:41:00 - [110]
 

omg... one more thread about nothing.....

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.07.29 13:49:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: JC Ferguson

One of the better dev alt responses I've received.
...

But just to be crystal clear I'll humor the young aspiring CSM delegate:

On dev alts:

If it sounds like a duck... I can only make educated guesses on which of my trolls are dev alts.


this sentences make your posts completely empty for any reasonable people.


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