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Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:14:00 - [2221]
 

Something makes me doubt the average Joe at CCP buys into this, much interaction as some have with the community. Hence the leak out of self-interest. I don't think they are oblivious to the fact this agenda essentially puts the gun in EVE's mouth and pulls the trigger.

Deamos
Dev Null Development and Holdings
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:15:00 - [2222]
 

This topic needs to stay on top until CCP gives a response!

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:15:00 - [2223]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Eladaris

Personally having SEEN this issue, I'd really love to know what some of the earlier ones looked like. Wonder how many times the former CSM members had to put the NDA blindfolds on when discussing the 'future' of Eve.


We should get some CSM members that can read braille for all these blindfolds they wear while reading those newsletters in their meetings.



It's an NDA... and we already know what happens when 'ahem' now-former members of the CSM break those.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:15:00 - [2224]
 


Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:17:00 - [2225]
 

Coming soon, the yearly "free" expansions will cost only 25,000 AUR. It's free, 'cos you can buy PLEX on the market, turn it into AUR, and buy it that way! Rolling Eyes

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:18:00 - [2226]
 

Originally by: Hra Neuvosto
Originally by: Illwill Bill
That Trinity trailer sure brought back memories.Sad

Incarna didn't even have a trailer :(


Kinda hard to do a vid of a cash register and make it interesting.

Quartex
Gallente
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:18:00 - [2227]
 

Originally by: Don Pellegrino
I will be eternally damned for quoting and agreeing with Jade Constantine, but I have to do so.

It nails it:

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Here is the problem Verone.

Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and “get” what makes Eve great – and that’s the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not “get eve” does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.

Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:

1. The Captains Quarters – it’s not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible – if you have a bad graphic card it’s a jerk fest – if you have a decent graphics card it’s heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQ’s turned on – I can run it smoothly – but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQ’s on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.

CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a “disembark ship” option to the UI but “oh no” to do that would have meant we weren’t being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if we’re to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.


I don’t want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really don’t have much of a clue in business.



I've edited Jade's points into the one that matters. S/he has articulated the issue better than most. In addition to my own points I am sad that CCP over-looked the impact on poorer graphic cards and as a businessmen that they didn't think through the effect on the multi account players who inevitably are Eve's power players and loudest voices.

Duchess Starbuckington
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:18:00 - [2228]
 

Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 23/06/2011 23:18:31
The day people can spend aurum for stuff that isn't purely cosmetic/provides serious practical advantages is the day I unsub.
The sentiment in my corp is very much the same.

In the highly unlikely event CCP actually read this: you are playing with fire here. There's only so much you can **** your playerbase around before it will come back to bite you, straight in the wallet.

dumpertt
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:19:00 - [2229]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Nimbat
Have anyone translated and sent this to the russian population in eve? I'm sure they'd like to hear what's going on aswell.

Brilliant idea. Anyone know Russian? Let's get that PDF translated and distributed.


russians do read eve-24 and failheap, man. and yeah - there is thread at eve-ru. pretty same - "unsubbed", "can i have ur stuff", "seleene said it looks real" etc.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:21:00 - [2230]
 

Originally by: dumpertt
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
Originally by: Nimbat
Have anyone translated and sent this to the russian population in eve? I'm sure they'd like to hear what's going on aswell.

Brilliant idea. Anyone know Russian? Let's get that PDF translated and distributed.


russians do read eve-24 and failheap, man. and yeah - there is thread at eve-ru. pretty same - "unsubbed", "can i have ur stuff", "seleene said it looks real" etc.


Did they mention Me?

Baaz Vinashak
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:21:00 - [2231]
 

CCP you are getting the micro transaction piece so wrong. You have a platform that allows you to make simple innovations that can add a significant revenue stream to your business, but your game designers and advisors don't seem to have a clue. Get a good consultant, who has advised telecoms and media players on subscriber model innovation and Value Added Services to guide you. Apps Stores and VAS are simple and elegant ways of creating new revenue streams. Get a good consultant.

p.s I charge 1200 Euros a day, contact in game if you wanna chat Very Happy

Eladaris
Amarr
Excessum Industries
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:21:00 - [2232]
 

Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Something makes me doubt the average Joe at CCP buys into this, much interaction as some have with the community. Hence the leak out of self-interest. I don't think they are oblivious to the fact this agenda essentially puts the gun in EVE's mouth and pulls the trigger.


I think we've heard more than once or twice or twenty times that the rate of pay in Iceland... well... isn't all that grand. We've heard that if you aren't native, you aren't getting a great deal of fast promotions. If you've moved to that rock, your job options are probably pretty damn small. You likely NEED the game to succeed to be successful, but that's more a matter of profit margins and membership numbers, and less what no more than 10% percent of the player base think (forum-goers).

And if you started playing Eve after the T20 fiasco, your sole opportunities for Eve gameplay are likely mining, hi-sec mission running, and doing a bit of exploration. You're pretty much directly forbidden from participating in any of the true eve game play... including scamming, market manipulation, or the rest. We've seen direct proof of that back when the CCP folks chimed into the forums with what they do in-game (IE - not much).

Considering all of that...

Why would the average Joe at CCP really care? It's a poorly paid job where he's probably ignored most of the time anyway, and, not to white knight CCP... but he's probably looked at the forum's a time or three and seen the foaming masses here, and just totally tuned out of the game entirely.

Velicitia
Gallente
Open Designs
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:22:00 - [2233]
 

Originally by: Erichan

I wasn't there but I think the graphics engine got a big upgrade which you can see in some of the videos where they show the old ship transitioned to the new ship. Did I get that right vets?



That would be it... no real "new content" (well not much, from what I remember... I only started at the very tail end of Revelations II) ... but they gave us exactly what we had wanted -- LOTS AND LOTS of pretty for our internet spaceships...

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:23:00 - [2234]
 

Originally by: Miilla

Did they mention Me?


LOL - Down in front!

Erichan
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:24:00 - [2235]
 

Edited by: Erichan on 23/06/2011 23:31:28
Originally by: Eladaris
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Something makes me doubt the average Joe at CCP buys into this, much interaction as some have with the community. Hence the leak out of self-interest. I don't think they are oblivious to the fact this agenda essentially puts the gun in EVE's mouth and pulls the trigger.


I think we've heard more than once or twice or twenty times that the rate of pay in Iceland... well... isn't all that grand. We've heard that if you aren't native, you aren't getting a great deal of fast promotions. If you've moved to that rock, your job options are probably pretty damn small. You likely NEED the game to succeed to be successful, but that's more a matter of profit margins and membership numbers, and less what no more than 10% percent of the player base think (forum-goers).

And if you started playing Eve after the T20 fiasco, your sole opportunities for Eve gameplay are likely mining, hi-sec mission running, and doing a bit of exploration. You're pretty much directly forbidden from participating in any of the true eve game play... including scamming, market manipulation, or the rest. We've seen direct proof of that back when the CCP folks chimed into the forums with what they do in-game (IE - not much).

Considering all of that...

Why would the average Joe at CCP really care? It's a poorly paid job where he's probably ignored most of the time anyway, and, not to white knight CCP... but he's probably looked at the forum's a time or three and seen the foaming masses here, and just totally tuned out of the game entirely.


I am not voting for John T to be President of CCP or anything, but it demontstrates that at least some of the staff feel that this isn't the right direction. I just don't think they have any more voice than we do right now :(.

BigBong Theory
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:25:00 - [2236]
 

Edited by: BigBong Theory on 23/06/2011 23:37:07
You have cancelled your EVE Online subscription.

Your account will be suspended at the end of the current subscription period, expiring on **********

Your characters will be stored safely and be ready for you to enjoy again should you decide to return.

If you feel that this cancellation has been made in error, you can quickly and easily reopen your account by clicking below. Crying or Very sad

I love this game, this is not a rage quit. This is a withdrawal of support. I have game time left, I will continue to play, and watch. If I decide to quit it will make no difference, I'm sure they have a number of 'acceptable losses' with regards to people quitting. It's a shame to go, but if this becomes a game I don't want to play anymore for various reasons, then I'll leave it to the credit card warriors. We all know how it goes, you either pay to win or you're cannon fodder for those that do.

leth ghost
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:26:00 - [2237]
 

Originally by: Miilla



PONY PROTEST :)




thought the mods were asleep lol

well they are still about but still no reply to the concerns on this thread doubt there will be

Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:27:00 - [2238]
 

Originally by: Helicity Boson
Everything has been said really. The game is over.


The cards are on the table, I don't think there is any meaningful response CCP could come up with other than doing a 180° turn on their strategical direction (and that won't happen).

CCP has tried to fund three games with the revenue of one game - when this proved to be impossible they had to gamble on changing their single cash cow's business model in order to extract more revenue. That's not fearless, it is desperate.

I guess there exist funding agreements with VCs and banks concerning DUST and WoD that would make scrapping or significantly delaying either of these projects impossible. And at least in the case of DUST the sunk cost is probably high enough to justify completing this project no matter how successful it can be expected to be on the market.

EVE still has a lot of momentum - even if it bleeds a few thousand accounts per month it will stay alive for a very long time. In any case it will live long enough to provide DUST with gameplay content for the 6-18 months you can expect a console title to last and to finance the bridge to WoD.

The sad reality is that "nobody wants to buy a monocle for 60$" paves the road for more aggressive MT items/services - there's little choice but to vary the product palette (and pricing) until people start to buy and we all know that there are some MT items that would see huge uptake simply due to the pvp nature of the game (even if they might be unpopular on the forums).

A new game without the legacy cruft, a new audience without the bittervets, a new business model without the sense of entitlement brought by subscriptions, ... if you had to choose between slowly sacrificing EVE to get WoD and instantly sacrificing WoD for a stagnating EVE, what would your choice be?

And there is still the "hope" scenario - hope that MTs will see some serious uptake before CCP has to switch to gameplay affecting offers, hope that DUST will be a success and live for many expansions, hope that CCP will be able to retain its talent through the critical next 1-1.5 years, hope that the huge gamble pays off and that CCP will emerge with three successful games.

Amitious Turkey
Gallente
TarNec
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:27:00 - [2239]
 

It's a good thing we, the subscribers, have power over CCP's wallet...I ain't buying a thing from the Noble Exchange until it gets down to pennies.

Erichan
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:27:00 - [2240]
 

Aren't we a bit beyond Mods at this point? This is basically so fundamental we're looking for a Hilmer response, aren't we?

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:28:00 - [2241]
 

Originally by: Eladaris
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Something makes me doubt the average Joe at CCP buys into this, much interaction as some have with the community. Hence the leak out of self-interest. I don't think they are oblivious to the fact this agenda essentially puts the gun in EVE's mouth and pulls the trigger.


I think we've heard more than once or twice or twenty times that the rate of pay in Iceland... well... isn't all that grand. We've heard that if you aren't native, you aren't getting a great deal of fast promotions. If you've moved to that rock, your job options are probably pretty damn small. You likely NEED the game to succeed to be successful, but that's more a matter of profit margins and membership numbers, and less what no more than 10% percent of the player base think (forum-goers).

And if you started playing Eve after the T20 fiasco, your sole opportunities for Eve gameplay are likely mining, hi-sec mission running, and doing a bit of exploration. You're pretty much directly forbidden from participating in any of the true eve game play... including scamming, market manipulation, or the rest. We've seen direct proof of that back when the CCP folks chimed into the forums with what they do in-game (IE - not much).

Considering all of that...

Why would the average Joe at CCP really care? It's a poorly paid job where he's probably ignored most of the time anyway, and, not to white knight CCP... but he's probably looked at the forum's a time or three and seen the foaming masses here, and just totally tuned out of the game entirely.


They are not forbidden to do everything, as you're insinuating, and furthermore the level of disconnect you assume is way beyond "guy who logs in to run missions every now and then." The level of ignorance required to push the agenda seen in that pdf is something along the lines of "yeah I know about EVE, it's this space mmo thingy." Nobody with even a hint of connectivity with the community at large would suggest subversion of the game with arum.

Evolutionairy
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:28:00 - [2242]
 

EVE Online Subscription Cancelled

You have cancelled your EVE Online subscription.

Your account will be suspended at the end of the current subscription period, expiring on QuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestionQuestion.

Your characters will be stored safely and be ready for you to enjoy again should you decide to return.

If you feel that this cancellation has been made in error, you can quickly and easily reopen your account by clicking below.

dumpertt
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:30:00 - [2243]
 

Originally by: Miilla

Did they mention Me?


**** or gtfo Twisted Evil

Myra2007
Millstone Industries
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:32:00 - [2244]
 

Originally by: Erichan
Aren't we a bit beyond Mods at this point? This is basically so fundamental we're looking for a Hilmer response, aren't we?


This! Eagerly awaiting another smug tweet any minute now.

DjLowballer
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:33:00 - [2245]
 

75 pages and still nothing? Crazy

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:34:00 - [2246]
 

75 Pages in less than 48 hours, can we reach 200 pages in the next couple days?


What's the longest thread in EVE Forum history?

Tea Ester Elliot
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:34:00 - [2247]
 

Originally by: Myra2007
Originally by: Erichan
Aren't we a bit beyond Mods at this point? This is basically so fundamental we're looking for a Hilmer response, aren't we?


This! Eagerly awaiting another smug tweet any minute now.


Mittani vs. Hilmar smug-tweet war.

Go.

IVeige
Caldari
IVever.
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:34:00 - [2248]
 

Originally by: Helgur
4 ****ing years with this game. I'll miss it. This is truly the coup de grâce and this is the first time I've uttered these words: eve is dead

GG CCP GG

Sad


Agree, bye ccp. Suscription cancelled.

Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:35:00 - [2249]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
The cards are on the table, I don't think there is any meaningful response CCP could come up with other than doing a 180° turn on their strategical direction (and that won't happen).

CCP has tried to fund three games with the revenue of one game - when this proved to be impossible they had to gamble on changing their single cash cow's business model in order to extract more revenue. That's not fearless, it is desperate.

I guess there exist funding agreements with VCs and banks concerning DUST and WoD that would make scrapping or significantly delaying either of these projects impossible. And at least in the case of DUST the sunk cost is probably high enough to justify completing this project no matter how successful it can be expected to be on the market.

EVE still has a lot of momentum - even if it bleeds a few thousand accounts per month it will stay alive for a very long time. In any case it will live long enough to provide DUST with gameplay content for the 6-18 months you can expect a console title to last and to finance the bridge to WoD.

The sad reality is that "nobody wants to buy a monocle for 60$" paves the road for more aggressive MT items/services - there's little choice but to vary the product palette (and pricing) until people start to buy and we all know that there are some MT items that would see huge uptake simply due to the pvp nature of the game (even if they might be unpopular on the forums).

A new game without the legacy cruft, a new audience without the bittervets, a new business model without the sense of entitlement brought by subscriptions, ... if you had to choose between slowly sacrificing EVE to get WoD and instantly sacrificing WoD for a stagnating EVE, what would your choice be?

And there is still the "hope" scenario - hope that MTs will see some serious uptake before CCP has to switch to gameplay affecting offers, hope that DUST will be a success and live for many expansions, hope that CCP will be able to retain its talent through the critical next 1-1.5 years, hope that the huge gamble pays off and that CCP will emerge with three successful games.

I suspect that this is the sad reality. I really hope you're off the mark.

Erichan
Posted - 2011.06.23 23:36:00 - [2250]
 

Can someone link the better tweets?


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