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Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:09:00 - [1561]
 

CCP HAS RESPONDED!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535591

Now WTF are you supposed to say to that...

Jeffor
Selectus Pravus Lupus
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:10:00 - [1562]
 

Any person who has a tiny clue about marketing knows that it is easier to retain old customers than gaining new ones. I am not sure how this applies to this situation but I am fairly sure it does somehow.


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:10:00 - [1563]
 



Is any of this affecting the PLEX prices?


If that gets ehm DOUBLED, that would be a problem for CCP right? :)

Jehvan Sunburnadire
The Forgotten Legion
Redrum Fleet
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:10:00 - [1564]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Jehvan Sunburnadire

No. Plex are best thought of as equivalent to promisorry notes or bearer-bonds. They are a loan to CCP in return for something that entitles the bearer to 30 days of game time. As has already been stated in this thread, it would be interesting to see a test case regarding the 'limited liabilities' that companies like to put in their EULAs though.


I'm afraid you are seriously out of date. While PLEX started with the status you seem to think it still has, CCP changed it to a full in-game item last summer. As an in-game item CCP own it, not you.


Thanks for the info, I stand corrected! Smile

MrSteack
Caldari
Unchained Potential
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:11:00 - [1565]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
CCP HAS RESPONDED!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535591

Now WTF are you supposed to say to that...


Not a real response. We need to wait for their PR department to ok an official statement. Im sure forum mods arent allowed to say a word without their concent.

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:11:00 - [1566]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Here is the problem Verone. Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and “get” what makes Eve great – and that’s the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not “get eve” does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.

Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:

1. The Captains Quarters – it’s not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible – if you have a bad graphic card it’s a jerk fest – if you have a decent graphics card it’s heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQ’s turned on – I can run it smoothly – but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQ’s on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.

CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a “disembark ship” option to the UI but “oh no” to do that would have meant we weren’t being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if we’re to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.

2. If you read the newsletter you’ll see reference to saved fitting slots – and I don’t know about you Verone but in JF we’ve run out of saved corp ship fittings. We want CCP to up the limit but is that really going to happen while the “biz-devs” talk honeyed words about how to squeeze extra income from players for such “minor upgrades.”?

3. Who develops these vanity items? Yes thats right its Eve artists and developers whose salary we pay with our subscriptions. Given the choice wouldn’t you rather than engine trials and flashy cyno effect rather than a bunch of overpriced tat in the Aur store? Because that is precisely the compromise being made here -> CCP using our subs money to pay for vanity item production they want to sell back to us for greedy prices and it is something you SHOULD get mad about.

Here’s the thing. The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didn’t want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.

I don’t want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really don’t have much of a clue in business.


/signed

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:11:00 - [1567]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Miagi Sans
I may think EVE24 is ****e, but CCP really NEEDS to explain this, if real or not..and if so...

God help their souls....


It's not fake.

This would have been the fist thread closed had it not been true.
Although the moderators are busy closing down about every other thread on the forums.

Traitors. You know, that's the best word I have for CCP after reading that newsletter.





True or not they have to act. They will take a large loss from this.

1.All the people who really just can't run cq.
2.All the people quitting because of that doc.
3.All the people who wont join eve for the simple reason that it is being bashed on quite a few gaming sites.

All in all this was a head shot to them. Normally I would feel bad but they ignored us long enough and I asked myself.."do I really need this game?"..."is it even fun anymore?". Answer is no. For me it's little stuff like hybrids for example along with hundreds of other fixes people have been begging for while they plot how to bull**** us.

Maybe now they will wake up and see we are fed up.

Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Amarr
Iure Divino
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:11:00 - [1568]
 

Originally by: Reed Tiburon
CCP HAS RESPONDED!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535591

Now WTF are you supposed to say to that...


"Thanks for the kind words."

I bet they're loving those, and totally ignoring the rest of us, as usual.

T0KER
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:12:00 - [1569]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Miagi Sans
I may think EVE24 is ****e, but CCP really NEEDS to explain this, if real or not..and if so...

God help their souls....


It's not fake.

This would have been the fist thread closed had it not been true.
Although the moderators are busy closing down about every other thread on the forums.

Traitors. You know, that's the best word I have for CCP after reading that newsletter.



this

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:12:00 - [1570]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didn’t want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.


well, what have we then?

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:12:00 - [1571]
 

Originally by: Jeffor
Any person who has a tiny clue about marketing knows that it is easier to retain old customers than gaining new ones. I am not sure how this applies to this situation but I am fairly sure it does somehow.




CCP spitfire always answers questions that I give so I have no beef with him :P (yet)


Jehvan Sunburnadire
The Forgotten Legion
Redrum Fleet
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:13:00 - [1572]
 

Originally by: Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
CCP HAS RESPONDED!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535591

Now WTF are you supposed to say to that...


"Thanks for the kind words."

I bet they're loving those, and totally ignoring the rest of us, as usual.


More likely there's been a decree from upon high to *not* comment on this thread. BTDT when the last.fm site relaunched in 2008. Lots of ****ed users, and ****ed staff, and none of us could say a damn thing due to management. It's a ****ty situation for any CCPer who actually cares to be in.

Mehrdad Kor-Azor
Amarr
Iure Divino
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:13:00 - [1573]
 

We should make a new thread with our demands. I know one person had listed them very nicely, but I can't find the posts in this threadnaught...

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:14:00 - [1574]
 

Originally by: Jehvan Sunburnadire

Thanks for the info, I stand corrected! Smile


No worries. FWIW I said "money problems" instantly on vent when they did the change. I suspect "investment problems" would have been nearer the mark.

Judicator Saturnius
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:15:00 - [1575]
 

Originally by: Mehrdad Kor-Azor
We should make a new thread with our demands. I know one person had listed them very nicely, but I can't find the posts in this threadnaught...


I think that much is obvious without creating a new thread: Death to the MT push.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:15:00 - [1576]
 

Originally by: Judicator Saturnius
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus

....
Too late now.



Would you be so kind as to link me your gaming suggestions Dr. B?


If you haven't dived into Dwarf Fortress, it's definately worth at least a short swim.
Very tough/complex game, can take awhile before you get all the pieces of the mechanics that you need to survive.

Get the Lazy Newb Pack which includes tilesets and things to make it easier to use.

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:16:00 - [1577]
 

Originally by: Jeffor
Any person who has a tiny clue about marketing knows that it is easier to retain old customers than gaining new ones. I am not sure how this applies to this situation but I am fairly sure it does somehow.




Not to mention that dissatisfied customers are something like 10 times more likely to tell others about their experience than satisfied ones.

That's what brought down SOE, despite their media and marketing blitz promoting the NGE, in which they called us the "vocal minority", word of mouth overcame more than $1 million of advertising.

Tehlana Riolis
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:16:00 - [1578]
 

"Creation is so precious,
and greed so destructive."

EVE Online: Tyrannis Teaser
Summer 2010

Jonny Utrigas
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:16:00 - [1579]
 

Originally by: Judicator Saturnius
Originally by: Mehrdad Kor-Azor
We should make a new thread with our demands. I know one person had listed them very nicely, but I can't find the posts in this threadnaught...


I think that much is obvious without creating a new thread: Death to the MT push.


^^ This. Kill MT and I will happily go about my normal EVE business, blowing up other internet spaceships.

Scortched Merc
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:17:00 - [1580]
 

I already have enough issues fitting internet spaceships... I made my toon... took my pic... I'll be damned if I'm going to try to fit clothing or whatever to me again... thats just the way I am.

Posted to a threadnaut! One less thing on the list before I die.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:21:00 - [1581]
 



Meh, I want to log in, but I just can't.


Janus Konor
Amarr
Supercarrier Aggression
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:21:00 - [1582]
 

Im not reading 52 pages of posts. So I will just say this for me.
Dear CCP.. if you are thinking of MT in the future.. to bolster income, I ask this. Please do not do anything that will effect game mechanics. Skins, yes.. Clothes.. Yes.. Tattoos.. Yes.. Anything that effects the game mechanics.. NO. Selling faster or pre-determined SP.. NO!! Special ships? NO!! As for the prices.. Lets be realistic.. Nothing you can buy should exceed your monthly game playing cost, since none of it should effect game play. How can you justify a single item in game that you can buy in MT that is non functional flashy item, to cost more then the right to use your copywrighted and 8+ years in making Game code that we all love? Im not a business guy, so Im sorry if I dont see the advantage of this in short term, however, I think in the long term you will lose more customer base income then CCP can afford, and risk your Company. I know I will not be playing Eve 5 minutes after you make MT effect game mechanics. Which saddens me.. at 74 mil SP, and 5 years in game I feel I have a vested interest in EVE, and hate to give it up for your GREED! Which also means you will also lose a Dust Player, in me.. and my FPS shooter friends who have already said they would play DUST to help my EVE corporation/alliance.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:21:00 - [1583]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder
Originally by: Jeffor
Any person who has a tiny clue about marketing knows that it is easier to retain old customers than gaining new ones. I am not sure how this applies to this situation but I am fairly sure it does somehow.




Not to mention that dissatisfied customers are something like 10 times more likely to tell others about their experience than satisfied ones.

That's what brought down SOE, despite their media and marketing blitz promoting the NGE, in which they called us the "vocal minority", word of mouth overcame more than $1 million of advertising.



NGE was only one out of several SOE failcascades. Another big failcascade was EQ2. And i see similarities to CCP:

CCP think of Eve as their golden goose now, to fund their newer projects, where they put their true development power into. I have seen this at Everquest 1 - Everquest 2, and Sony failed so hard with it and screw their playerbase so badly, i have no interest in going through that a 2nd time.

Republica Winder
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:21:00 - [1584]
 

Originally by: Miilla


Meh, I want to log in, but I just can't.




Since I'm canceled anyway, no need to keep the client on my PC. Time to free up some space for a new game.

Cpt Wrongway
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:22:00 - [1585]
 

After thinking about it for a long while I've decided that maybe it's best for this to happen. Think of it a couple of ways; CCP is a growing company and they're doing all this to make profit, that's all corporations exist for. Now how do you make more proft and gain new customers when the old guard players have such a heads up on PvP and dominate the SP difference. You keep the core game but offer the weaker willed or more impatient new players the ability to have more of an edge in the existing world. Of course there have to be limits, maybe if you pay for boosts it's only good upto a certain level of SP and or only works on NPCs if we're talking about fancy ammo or something, and the NeX isn't a market killer, people will still buy your PLEXs and there will still be demand for more and CCP will still make proft.

But CCP has to listen to us still and make a few accomodations. Hanger view option, etc.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:23:00 - [1586]
 

Originally by: MrSteack
Originally by: Reed Tiburon
CCP HAS RESPONDED!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1535591

Now WTF are you supposed to say to that...

Not a real response. We need to wait for their PR department to ok an official statement. Im sure forum mods arent allowed to say a word without their concent.

CCP Spitfire says "Thanks for the kind words," and that is supposed to be a response to what exactly!? Certainly nothing pertaining to this mess.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:23:00 - [1587]
 

Originally by: Janus Konor
Im not reading 52 pages of posts. So I will just say this for me.
Dear CCP.. if you are thinking of MT in the future.. to bolster income, I ask this. Please do not do anything that will effect game mechanics. Skins, yes.. Clothes.. Yes.. Tattoos.. Yes.. Anything that effects the game mechanics.. NO. Selling faster or pre-determined SP.. NO!! Special ships? NO!! As for the prices.. Lets be realistic.. Nothing you can buy should exceed your monthly game playing cost, since none of it should effect game play. How can you justify a single item in game that you can buy in MT that is non functional flashy item, to cost more then the right to use your copywrighted and 8+ years in making Game code that we all love? Im not a business guy, so Im sorry if I dont see the advantage of this in short term, however, I think in the long term you will lose more customer base income then CCP can afford, and risk your Company. I know I will not be playing Eve 5 minutes after you make MT effect game mechanics. Which saddens me.. at 74 mil SP, and 5 years in game I feel I have a vested interest in EVE, and hate to give it up for your GREED! Which also means you will also lose a Dust Player, in me.. and my FPS shooter friends who have already said they would play DUST to help my EVE corporation/alliance.



The prices show one clear thing, they are DESPERATE to DRAIN the SINK of PLEX's BADLY URGENTY.


Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:24:00 - [1588]
 

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Here is the problem Verone. Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and “get” what makes Eve great – and that’s the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not “get eve” does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.

Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:

1. The Captains Quarters – it’s not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible – if you have a bad graphic card it’s a jerk fest – if you have a decent graphics card it’s heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQ’s turned on – I can run it smoothly – but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQ’s on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.

CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a “disembark ship” option to the UI but “oh no” to do that would have meant we weren’t being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if we’re to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.

2. If you read the newsletter you’ll see reference to saved fitting slots – and I don’t know about you Verone but in JF we’ve run out of saved corp ship fittings. We want CCP to up the limit but is that really going to happen while the “biz-devs” talk honeyed words about how to squeeze extra income from players for such “minor upgrades.”?

3. Who develops these vanity items? Yes thats right its Eve artists and developers whose salary we pay with our subscriptions. Given the choice wouldn’t you rather than engine trials and flashy cyno effect rather than a bunch of overpriced tat in the Aur store? Because that is precisely the compromise being made here -> CCP using our subs money to pay for vanity item production they want to sell back to us for greedy prices and it is something you SHOULD get mad about.

Here’s the thing. The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didn’t want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.

I don’t want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really don’t have much of a clue in business.


/signed

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:25:00 - [1589]
 

Quick question.... With CCP gone, how will the Russian mafia launder their money? More dating sites and mules forwarding WesternUnion?

Ana Vyr
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:27:00 - [1590]
 

CCP, you guys made a real mess here. The naked greed in that article is pretty disgusting. Most EvE players don't give a rats arse about Dust or WoD, yet now we find out we are being milked so you can proceed with those two projects. Nice. Well, you reap what you sow.


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