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gektor fox Ozuwara
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:47:00 - [1291]
 

a

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:48:00 - [1292]
 

People have accepted PLEX for ISK/AUR, they have accepted reluctently VANITY items.

What they will NOT accept is game changing PAID items.

There is a line that not even VALVE is crossing.


Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:48:00 - [1293]
 

Originally by: Siiee
Originally by: Verone
I'll wait to see what gets fixed, rolled out, polished and repaired in the coming patches before I resort to throwing my toys around.


The problem with that as I see it is these sort of problems are not technical mishaps or silly programming blunders. Breaking gatejumps in a new patch is both lol worthy and rage inducing, but it's also something that a reasonable person could understand to be entirely unintentional. Give them some time to work it out sure. But the problems that we've been seeing recently aren't of that type, they're changes in business strategy, or the result of CCP asking for and then actively ignoring user input.

I agree with you about MTs, I'm not interested myself, even if they were only a dollar each. But the whole "vanity items only" thing was never a part of CCPs original song and dance. That only came about after a large to-do about MTs in the first place, and I fully expect that if they had been left to their own devices that we would now be seeing the same type of MT store that we have now, but with all types of other non-vanity "convenience" itmes in it. CCP desperately wants all kinds of MT, and it's only pressure back from the community that keeps them from slowly invading every single aspect of gameplay. If the community stops pushing and just waits to see then you can expect to see them creeping back over the "vanity only" line as soon as they think they can get away with it, and they will be at the same insane prices we see now because that's what they feel is appropriate.

It's a similar thing with CQ, of course it will get patched and tweaked, and in the next year we most likely will see the other 3 racial CQs. But what we have now was deemed a strong enough user experience for a release. From a technical standpoint it's not terrible, there are some minor issues that are to be expected with such a new release. If we sit back and just watch and see they can look at their metrics and say "Great success! We'll do more of this." Much in the same way that they look back on Apocrypha and all of the technical debt that accumulated during that release and say it was one of the buggiest worst expansions ever, even tho for most of the player base Apocrypha has been one of the best expansions in recent history.

Spot on and well said.

leth ghost
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:49:00 - [1294]
 

Edited by: leth ghost on 23/06/2011 13:49:04
Originally by: Kronir
Originally by: Kronir
The bottom-line is that change is in the wind. And the current iteration of Incarna along with the public comments of CCP show which way the wind is going to be blowing.

The document may well be a 'debate'...but the decission has already been made. If it hadn't already been made - we wouldn't be where we are today.


And this is the way the wind is blowing...

Originally by: General Windypops




It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?





QFT

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:51:00 - [1295]
 

Originally by: Bendy Profane
Take this very seriously, management of CCP.

Yes, there are those who will always flame you on the forums. But the recent events also turned a lot of moderates into angry and bitter customers. Without the core community this game is nothing. Do not put it off for good.
they can not ignore this i mean, they cannot ignore the fact that alot of old players are angry.

unless of course they have really forgotten the older players (ive played scince 08)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:51:00 - [1296]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein

In any case this framing of the problem eliminates the "No MT" option Twisted Evil


In the doc there's no one arguing against MT completely, no "against" internal current that we are let to see.

In line of principle I am not against MT either, if people want to waste money on a monocle why not. It's less pressure at converting PLEXes into staying ISK that pollutes the economy from inside. It's a PLEX sink, it's good.

Therefore as wannabe economist myself I support the pamphlet economist in a moderate support for purely vanity items.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:52:00 - [1297]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 23/06/2011 13:52:21

MAKE NO MISTAKE

When a new player joins, they find EVE HARD. If they have a Cash door to make it easier, NEW PLAYERS WILL OPEN THAT DOOR.

MAKE NO MISTAKE.

It WILL change the game.

If they do this, the only way to end it is to COME DOWN HARD (and I mean the entire UNIVERSE) on that PLAYER who uses CASH BONUSES.

Make them PAY MORE AND MORE AND MORE, until they have NO MONEY LEFT.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:52:00 - [1298]
 

Originally by: Ranita Drell

CCP Molock: But that's still crazy -- you could buy a capital ship for that much -- or a monocle in real life. It needs to be way lower.
CCP Soundwave: Let's just make it an even 12000.
CCP Molock: But our players are going to think we've gone insane with greed ... only a handful of people will buy it and we won't even profit on it.
CCP Soundwave: If that's the case we can just cut the prices by a third and we'll look reasonable and magnanimous. It's win/win.


Locator Agent: "The scumbags can be found at CCP Headquarters, Iceland."

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:53:00 - [1299]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
I actually don't know what the hell all the fuss is about. Do you honestly NOT expect CCP to look at how best to maximise profit?

You're all insanely naive if so. Not one thing in that document was shocking or surprising. Except for some of the page design.



To maximize profit CCP would have to retain old customers while gaining new ones.

While it might not be shocking it is a violation of what was promised to the fanbase.

I can tell by your avatar and writing style that you are much more intelligent and suave than the rest of us. So for example when your girl cheats on you you can just get a new one because you are so all that. for normal sewer dwellers like us tho it still hurts :(

Lady Spanky
Perkone
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:54:00 - [1300]
 

Originally by: Carmine Lady
Originally by: Bendy Profane
Take this very seriously, management of CCP.

Yes, there are those who will always flame you on the forums. But the recent events also turned a lot of moderates into angry and bitter customers. Without the core community this game is nothing. Do not put it off for good.
they can not ignore this i mean, they cannot ignore the fact that alot of old players are angry.

unless of course they have really forgotten the older players (ive played scince 08)


I have characters in a range of the biggest 0.0 alliances, and I can honestly say that this isn't being discussed AT ALL in our comms channels. There have been a couple of chuckles at how OTT these forums are getting, and not one single person actually being bothered in the slighted.

Looks like it's only a small minority who are getting so uppity.


Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:54:00 - [1301]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei

So, I'd say that leaves CCP up that proverbial body of water made of excriment without a means of propulsion.


Drag out the EVE:TV gear. Wheel in Hilmar. $60 monacle and the rest of this carp demands the CEO do this. He appologises. He promises, to the camera, this will not happen again, even if EVE has to go to one expansion a year it will not happen again. No more Dominions, Tyranis's, Incursions (which wasn't that bad, no Apoth but hey) or Incarna's. Good stuff from here on in. That is uploaded to YouTube, twitter messages & forum posts ensue. A mail is sent out giving a 5 day grace period login to all accounts so that those who quit can come back and see if it really is fixed. Dev's pull the mother of all nighters and Monday (or Tuesday) Incarna 1.0.1 is released that fixes this mess.

Redblade
Reikoku
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:54:00 - [1302]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Constructive post


While I agree with you I'm with Verone a bit on this, at least let the patch sink in and get a few fixes, give CCP some time to perhaps shed some light on this and then make a stand if needed.

Sadly the more constructive input like yours is just drowned in nonsense and over sized lettering these days.

Arya Greywolf
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:54:00 - [1303]
 

As much as we all want to see a response by CCP to this... I have a feeling that most of us won't like it in the end anyway.

At first I really was p'OD and wanted to see what CCP was going to say. After thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that what is in that document is going to happen - no matter what.

Yeah, CCP might come out and say stuff like "we are sorry for not letting you in on development; this is only a speculative document; we promise not to sell game changing items for $$$; etc."

Yet, I can just see 3 months from now, CCP will forget all their apologies and implement their plan anyway, in hopes that we will come around. As much as I don't want this to happen, it probably will.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:55:00 - [1304]
 



What I find Ironic is that this feature is TARGETED at those WITH LOTS OF CASH (be it ISK or real money), and that means BIG CORPS and LOYAL YEARLY CUSTOMERS.

Ironic is, the very people they are hoping to FLEECE, are going to LEAVE over this exact feature.

Makes NO SENSE their TARGET AUDIENCE.

The only target customer it makes sense to is the NEW CUSTOMER, which will NOT STAY anyway (especially if we have our way with them)


Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:57:00 - [1305]
 

Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 23/06/2011 13:56:52
Originally by: General Windypops


It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?




Dumbest thing I heard. First a baseless assumption about me. Then an assumptions that you should get treated differently then me becuase "you are richer and got a more powerful job in RL and not the same time for games that I have".

As I said, get your head out of you ass :) you are clearly disconnected to what the issue is about, and you somehow think you are better then others becuse you "got a fansy job" as is entitld to different treatment. :P

Sad.

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:57:00 - [1306]
 

I TOO CAN SPEAK IN CAPS.

WHEN WILL WE GET TOPHATS CCP????

Fractal Muse
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:58:00 - [1307]
 

Originally by: General Windypops

It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?



If you are going to make statements like this at least back them up with how much 'more money' you have. Many players in EVE online make well over $100,000 USD / Year.

The way the skill system works means that regardless of how much in-game playing time one has you remain competitive so long as you remain subscribed. I've always liked that about EVE since I didn't have a lot of time to play (I often spent weeks without logging in other than to change a skill).

With PLEX for ISK one could buy up any ship wanted quickly. So, the way the game was designed prior to this patch have kept things balanced from the perspective of someone who "plays real life harder" than the game.

My issue with EVE Online now is twofold: First, I no longer want to be associated with the game. CCP's idea of what "micro-transactions" is nowhere near what mine would be. I actually have no issues with RMT as long as they remain in the realm of "micro-transactions" as such. I would rather see rare and hard to get items going to people who worked in the game to get those rare and hard to get items. But, in an environment like EVE, the occasional thing like a monocle is 'alright' by me.

The problem is the pricing of such items. The pricing has made the items a joke. This, in turn, makes the game itself a joke. This in turn makes anyone who plays a joke of a game...

The other major issue I have with the patch is the non-standard implementation of movement inside of stations. I hate that I cannot run. And I hate that WASD does not do what I expect it to do based on the de-facto standard of movement in FPS and other MMOs. I could learn and adapt... yes.. but, frankly, I don't want to.

If they do not understand basic gameplay like this then I want nothing to do with the game. When they remove the option of not loading CQ then everyone will have to waste extra time WALKING back and forth. It's silly. But, if they keep the option to not load CQ and default to the hangar where one has the option to disembark then that would be better in my view.

Too many straws broke the camel's back.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:58:00 - [1308]
 

"Not stay anyway" is part of the virus that invaded CCPs mind.

Remember they were kinda shocked to discover their retention/churn rate of 7 months.

There were elements of them focusing in on this time period rather then trying to extend it.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:59:00 - [1309]
 

Originally by: Redblade

While I agree with you I'm with Verone a bit on this, at least let the patch sink in and get a few fixes, give CCP some time to perhaps shed some light on this and then make a stand if needed.



there is no time for complacency!

QT McWhiskers
EdgeGamers
Situation: Normal
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:59:00 - [1310]
 

Originally by: General Windypops

It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT spending as much time with my kids as you do just because you have a less successful career?




Bolded part changed to show just how much of an idiot you are. By those exact same claims. You should gripe about every single online video game you play. You should make that argument for halo or call of doody, or whatever else you play because if that is your argument, then every single video game should fit that bill.

"Is it fair that you beat ff13 before I did becuase you only work 5 ours a day and I work 9?"

That is life suck it up and deal with it. I have a 9-6 job and I still find time for friends/games. I don't have near as much isk as my corp mates, but I dont care. I really don't. It doesn't mean I will buy a bunch of plex to get some ships and a few monocles to resell. (Lol at people reselling monocles because it would make more sense to just sell the plex. Better established market = better turnover.)


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:59:00 - [1311]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
"Not stay anyway" is part of the virus that invaded CCPs mind.

Remember they were kinda shocked to discover their retention/churn rate of 7 months.

There were elements of them focusing in on this time period rather then trying to extend it.



Anybody know the CHURN rate of ENTROPIA?


Rex Liberium
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:00:00 - [1312]
 

Originally by: Lady Spanky
Originally by: Carmine Lady
Originally by: Bendy Profane
Take this very seriously, management of CCP.

Yes, there are those who will always flame you on the forums. But the recent events also turned a lot of moderates into angry and bitter customers. Without the core community this game is nothing. Do not put it off for good.
they can not ignore this i mean, they cannot ignore the fact that alot of old players are angry.

unless of course they have really forgotten the older players (ive played scince 08)


I have characters in a range of the biggest 0.0 alliances, and I can honestly say that this isn't being discussed AT ALL in our comms channels. There have been a couple of chuckles at how OTT these forums are getting, and not one single person actually being bothered in the slighted.

Looks like it's only a small minority who are getting so uppity.




No they are all discussing it here on the forums.

Go away, your just waiting untill you can buy sov for aur.

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:00:00 - [1313]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 23/06/2011 13:56:52
Originally by: General Windypops


It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?




Dumbest thing I heard. First a baseless assumption about me. Then an assumptions that you should get treated differently then me becuase "you are richer and got a more powerful job in RL and not the same time for games that I have".

As I said, get your head out of you ass :) you are clearly disconnected to what the issue is about, and you somehow think you are better then others becuse you "got a fansy job" as is entitld to different treatment. :P

Sad.


Not baseless at all. I looked at your poor spelling, combined that with the fact that you clearly don't understand corporate marketing and sales planning and made a perfectly reasonable conjecture.

It is entirely right and reasonable that people with more money can buy themselves better stuff.


Sragir
Kshatriyas
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:01:00 - [1314]
 

Anyway....

This 2004 old vet, has unsubbed.


[I used to play EVE ONLINE, not going to play Eve-Scape]

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:01:00 - [1315]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 23/06/2011 14:04:21




I say we all let CCP do this and turn Eve into Entropia. Then we can point and laugh at them and say we told you so, while they look for new jobs.


CCP. I WANT MicroTransactions everywhere. Please?

I say we play CCP's game their way. Batter up!

At this stage; I am past caring and just having FUN at CCP's expense now.

Its the NEW GAME!




Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:02:00 - [1316]
 

On the one hand: What we all signed up for EVE for - a player-driven game with deep, complex gameplay and emergent player-driven narrative.

On the other hand, this bozo's conception of EVE:

Originally by: General Windypops
It is entirely right and reasonable that people with more money can buy themselves better stuff.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:02:00 - [1317]
 

Originally by: Lady Spanky
Originally by: Carmine Lady
Originally by: Bendy Profane
Take this very seriously, management of CCP.

Yes, there are those who will always flame you on the forums. But the recent events also turned a lot of moderates into angry and bitter customers. Without the core community this game is nothing. Do not put it off for good.
they can not ignore this i mean, they cannot ignore the fact that alot of old players are angry.

unless of course they have really forgotten the older players (ive played scince 08)


I have characters in a range of the biggest 0.0 alliances, and I can honestly say that this isn't being discussed AT ALL in our comms channels. There have been a couple of chuckles at how OTT these forums are getting, and not one single person actually being bothered in the slighted.

Looks like it's only a small minority who are getting so uppity.




I dont know how many big alliances there are but recently at least 2 have been caught RMT'ing. Would be no wonder THEY aren't worried.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:02:00 - [1318]
 


Originally by: General Windypops


It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?




rich **** much?

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:02:00 - [1319]
 

Originally by: Miilla

Anybody know the CHURN rate of ENTROPIA?



lol 200%, everytime someone joins 2 people leave!

Know that can trap animals in bad collision boxes and milk them for sweat :-D

Ni'arks Slave
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:03:00 - [1320]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Edited by: Sidus Isaacs on 23/06/2011 13:56:52
Originally by: General Windypops


It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?




Dumbest thing I heard. First a baseless assumption about me. Then an assumptions that you should get treated differently then me becuase "you are richer and got a more powerful job in RL and not the same time for games that I have".

As I said, get your head out of you ass :) you are clearly disconnected to what the issue is about, and you somehow think you are better then others becuse you "got a fansy job" as is entitld to different treatment. :P

Sad.


Not baseless at all. I looked at your poor spelling, combined that with the fact that you clearly don't understand corporate marketing and sales planning and made a perfectly reasonable conjecture.

It is entirely right and reasonable that people with more money can buy themselves better stuff.




6/10


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