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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari
XERCORE
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:29:00 - [1261]
 


Whether it's a fake or not is irrelevant at this point. The "hill" has become Everest. At the peak is the dead zone.




backtrace
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:29:00 - [1262]
 

The **** is that **** CCP?! Evil or Very Mad

dermannmitdemkoks
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:31:00 - [1263]
 

The general complaining and the worries about the possible development of the game after every patch may sometimes become grotesque.

But this time it seems to be different and legitimate. If the PDF is authentic there is a true risk for CCP to lose an unique selling proposition of their game: the chance to reach everything with ingame means and being independant from pure grinding at the same time. Soft skills have always been the key factor for success in EVE. Not the time you spent ingame and not the RL money you were spending.

They really should listen to their customers community and concentrate on improving the existing game mechanics/looks/operability instead of just adding new (and buggy) stuff just to attract some new players - cause: how long will they stay? Is it worth to drive out long term customers just to reach a very temorarily peak of new customers and then die within a year?

btw: thumbs up for JCs comments.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:31:00 - [1264]
 

Originally by: Celd Drakkar
To top it off it is happening in a game which is far more intellectual than probably any other MMO on the market today (ie. people here aren't dumb sheep for the most part).


Looking at Rens local I would guess its about 50:50. Plenty of people saying that they'd rather pay than "grind".

Unfortunately these are probably the least imaginative people in-game, so Eve will have to be dumbed-down a bit more.

Time to go sell stuff.

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:32:00 - [1265]
 

Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Long, LONG time player, first time complainer.

First they said CQ would be a solo experience ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Then they said MT would be for vanity items only ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Then they make it hard for me to run my 4 accounts ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Now they are talking about MT for stuff in game, that effects me ... AND I CAN NO LONGER SAY NOTHING.




succinct.

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:32:00 - [1266]
 

43 pages and still no CCP response of this?

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:32:00 - [1267]
 

Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra
No one is forcing you to get a monocle, if you are rich then get one and if you are a poor scrub who shouldnt be wearing a monocle then dont because you cant and are poor.


0/10, too obvious.

Rex Liberium
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:32:00 - [1268]
 

Originally by: riverini
43 pages and still no CCP response of this?


No only trolling CCP alts.

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:33:00 - [1269]
 

Edited by: General Windypops on 23/06/2011 13:33:07
Originally by: Othran
Looking at Rens local I would guess its about 50:50. Plenty of people saying that they'd rather pay than "grind".


You've clearly never been to Deklein.

Morgan Polaris
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:33:00 - [1270]
 

So, a couple of threadnaughts have been spawned, most of what should've been said has been said, repeated, memefied, etc. Let's quiet down a bit, let things sink in, look back at what's been said both here and pretty much all the outlets we (don't) care about. We know CCP is in dismay, most of them are or at least used to be players, so more funky stuff, like this leak, is bound to happen.

Personally, the entertainment over the last few days following those first few moments after TQ went back online, are just priceless. Dominion, Tyrannis and what the hell Incursion was be damned, this little CCP breakdown is priceless.

Like I said, cool down the presses a bit, let them have their say. It's going to be worth it.

Siiee
Recycled Heroes
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:34:00 - [1271]
 

Originally by: Verone
I'll wait to see what gets fixed, rolled out, polished and repaired in the coming patches before I resort to throwing my toys around.


The problem with that as I see it is these sort of problems are not technical mishaps or silly programming blunders. Breaking gatejumps in a new patch is both lol worthy and rage inducing, but it's also something that a reasonable person could understand to be entirely unintentional. Give them some time to work it out sure. But the problems that we've been seeing recently aren't of that type, they're changes in business strategy, or the result of CCP asking for and then actively ignoring user input.

I agree with you about MTs, I'm not interested myself, even if they were only a dollar each. But the whole "vanity items only" thing was never a part of CCPs original song and dance. That only came about after a large to-do about MTs in the first place, and I fully expect that if they had been left to their own devices that we would now be seeing the same type of MT store that we have now, but with all types of other non-vanity "convenience" itmes in it. CCP desperately wants all kinds of MT, and it's only pressure back from the community that keeps them from slowly invading every single aspect of gameplay. If the community stops pushing and just waits to see then you can expect to see them creeping back over the "vanity only" line as soon as they think they can get away with it, and they will be at the same insane prices we see now because that's what they feel is appropriate.

It's a similar thing with CQ, of course it will get patched and tweaked, and in the next year we most likely will see the other 3 racial CQs. But what we have now was deemed a strong enough user experience for a release. From a technical standpoint it's not terrible, there are some minor issues that are to be expected with such a new release. If we sit back and just watch and see they can look at their metrics and say "Great success! We'll do more of this." Much in the same way that they look back on Apocrypha and all of the technical debt that accumulated during that release and say it was one of the buggiest worst expansions ever, even tho for most of the player base Apocrypha has been one of the best expansions in recent history.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:34:00 - [1272]
 

Originally by: Rex Liberium
Originally by: riverini
43 pages and still no CCP response of this?


No only trolling CCP alts.


Funny they think a few shills can change complete and total loss of goodwill.

leth ghost
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:35:00 - [1273]
 

Originally by: Morgan Polaris
So, a couple of threadnaughts have been spawned, most of what should've been said has been said, repeated, memefied, etc. Let's quiet down a bit, let things sink in, look back at what's been said both here and pretty much all the outlets we (don't) care about. We know CCP is in dismay, most of them are or at least used to be players, so more funky stuff, like this leak, is bound to happen.

Personally, the entertainment over the last few days following those first few moments after TQ went back online, are just priceless. Dominion, Tyrannis and what the hell Incursion was be damned, this little CCP breakdown is priceless.

Like I said, cool down the presses a bit, let them have their say. It's going to be worth it.


thats the thing they aint got the balls to say **** all lol or just dont know what to say to try and pick the pieces up. They have been people reading this thread for a while now and they havent even mumbled a word

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:36:00 - [1274]
 

Looks pretty certain that Seleene leaked it.

Apple iPwn
Superscript
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:37:00 - [1275]
 

In on dis

CCP dun goofed


Ni'ark
Parnassius Corporation
Inception Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:38:00 - [1276]
 

Originally by: Morgan Polaris
So, a couple of threadnaughts have been spawned, most of what should've been said has been said, repeated, memefied, etc. Let's quiet down a bit, let things sink in, look back at what's been said both here and pretty much all the outlets we (don't) care about. We know CCP is in dismay, most of them are or at least used to be players, so more funky stuff, like this leak, is bound to happen.

Personally, the entertainment over the last few days following those first few moments after TQ went back online, are just priceless. Dominion, Tyrannis and what the hell Incursion was be damned, this little CCP breakdown is priceless.

Like I said, cool down the presses a bit, let them have their say. It's going to be worth it.


No, because if we stop now the fire will extinguish and CCP will not give us any answers. We keep posting, whining, trolling because we care about this stupid game.

Garheade
Amarr
Aideron Robotics
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:38:00 - [1277]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Looks pretty certain that Seleene leaked it.



Or Seleene made it up... either way I lol'd.

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:40:00 - [1278]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Looks pretty certain that Seleene leaked it.



Possibly. Although frankly if it is CCP's internal jazzmag then anyone visiting an office could of picked up a copy and walked off with it. Companies tend to leave such things in the reception areas so visitors can flick through it and read how awesome the company they're visiting are.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:40:00 - [1279]
 

Originally by: Morgan Polaris
So, a couple of threadnaughts have been spawned, most of what should've been said has been said, repeated, memefied, etc. Let's quiet down a bit, let things sink in, look back at what's been said both here and pretty much all the outlets we (don't) care about. We know CCP is in dismay, most of them are or at least used to be players, so more funky stuff, like this leak, is bound to happen.

Personally, the entertainment over the last few days following those first few moments after TQ went back online, are just priceless. Dominion, Tyrannis and what the hell Incursion was be damned, this little CCP breakdown is priceless.

Like I said, cool down the presses a bit, let them have their say. It's going to be worth it.


Yeah well if they dont speak soon they are going to miss their own funeral, so to speak.

Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:40:00 - [1280]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: leth ghost
Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra
No one is forcing you to get a monocle, if you are rich then get one and if you are a poor scrub who shouldnt be wearing a monocle then dont because you cant and are poor.


it will be people like you that stay and get milked for your $$ as ccp carry out there plans for the future


Sounds good. Would be nice to get rid of all the whining cheapskate bleaters.



Lol this is rich, would have taken you for a troll, if I knew you were not serious.

Clearly, a fair access too all of the games content for our subscriptions without paying extra RL money is begin "cheapskate".

It has nothing to do about beign "cheap". Get your head out of you ass :)

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:40:00 - [1281]
 

Originally by: leth ghost
thats the thing they aint got the balls to say **** all lol or just dont know what to say to try and pick the pieces up. They have been people reading this thread for a while now and they havent even mumbled a word

Like I said, what would they say? The easiest thing would just be to deny it... except then they don't get to 'coincidentally' implement anything on that list any more. So, damage control, in that regard, would halt their money-grubbing plans.

And if it's real, we fry 'em regardless.

So, I'd say that leaves CCP up that proverbial body of water made of excriment without a means of propulsion.

Sragir
Kshatriyas
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:42:00 - [1282]
 

Originally by: Nikki West
Originally by: Jade Constantine

Here is the problem Verone.

Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and “get” what makes Eve great – and that’s the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not “get eve” does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.

Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:

1. The Captains Quarters – it’s not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible – if you have a bad graphic card it’s a jerk fest – if you have a decent graphics card it’s heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQ’s turned on – I can run it smoothly – but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQ’s on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.

CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a “disembark ship” option to the UI but “oh no” to do that would have meant we weren’t being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if we’re to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.

2. If you read the newsletter you’ll see reference to saved fitting slots – and I don’t know about you Verone but in JF we’ve run out of saved corp ship fittings. We want CCP to up the limit but is that really going to happen while the “biz-devs” talk honeyed words about how to squeeze extra income from players for such “minor upgrades.”? How long till we pay aurum for extra corp standing slots? For wardec options? For a usable corp management screen?

3. And who develops these vanity items? Yes thats right its Eve artists and developers whose salary we pay with our subscriptions. Given the choice wouldn’t you rather have engine trials and flashy cyno effect for all players rather than a bunch of overpriced tat in the Aur store for a fleeced few?

Because that is precisely the compromise being made here -> CCP using our subs money to pay for vanity item production they want to sell back to us for greedy prices and it is something you SHOULD get mad about.

So here’s the thing.

The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didn’t want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.

I don’t want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really don’t have much of a clue in business.


+1
Well said.


+1
(1 week old PS3 going to my daughter. Because my merc in Dust514 will be basic . If a monocle cost this much, I wonder what the prices will be for advanced weapons, ammo, and equipment.)

Kronir
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:42:00 - [1283]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Then I read it once more when told by the most logical man I know to read it as two debate articles in one.
My stance changes, my pov adapts, I see a document quite plausible meant for creating inhouse debate, the document says nothing. It argues for various points in order for the intended readers(CCP employees) to form a opinion of their own. Noone calls a document gordon gekko edition if its not highly satirical.
Gordon gekko being a name most will link directly to overwhelming greed: Its either faked/satir or its light heartedly meant to get you thinking with such a shocker for a name =)

Read the document. Read it as a doc meant for creating debate. Don't take qoutes out of context. Any rage you feel atm will quite quickly give way as your rational mind and logic takes control and tells you the actual truth. Have some valium before reading if fellings are running high.




The bottom-line is that change is in the wind. And the current iteration of Incarna along with the public comments of CCP show which way the wind is going to be blowing.

The document may well be a 'debate'...but the decission has already been made. If it hadn't already been made - we wouldn't be where we are today.

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:43:00 - [1284]
 

Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: leth ghost
Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra
No one is forcing you to get a monocle, if you are rich then get one and if you are a poor scrub who shouldnt be wearing a monocle then dont because you cant and are poor.


it will be people like you that stay and get milked for your $$ as ccp carry out there plans for the future


Sounds good. Would be nice to get rid of all the whining cheapskate bleaters.



Lol this is rich, would have taken you for a troll, if I knew you were not serious.

Clearly, a fair access too all of the games content for our subscriptions without paying extra RL money is begin "cheapskate".

It has nothing to do about beign "cheap". Get your head out of you ass :)


It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?


Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:43:00 - [1285]
 

Originally by: Tammarr

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.



Intro:
Vanity MT = monocles and other harmless stuff.
Power MT = game outcome changing items like super ships, faction boosters, super ammo etc.

Imho since mods are not locking this thread there are two possible scenarios:

1) There is a CCP internal struggle raging. The CCP "anti-power-MT" faction slipped this document so that we could help them against the otherwise unstoppable power of the very lead game designer.
In this case we should support the guys like that the economist, who are pro-vanity but against power-aurum items.

2) Inside CCP there are equal pro and against factions and they let out this document to see our reaction. What we do and say here will be used at the next guidelines, corporate currents will become more powerful, others will go under.


In any case, this document slipped just too well timed, it's not a coincidence.
They even say they are watching.

Bendy Profane
The Red Circle Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:45:00 - [1286]
 

Take this very seriously, management of CCP.

Yes, there are those who will always flame you on the forums. But the recent events also turned a lot of moderates into angry and bitter customers. Without the core community this game is nothing. Do not put it off for good.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:46:00 - [1287]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
Yeah well if they dont speak soon they are going to miss their own funeral, so to speak.


It's all too late.

Just in the threads of people who have confirmed they have unsubscribed you can see many key hub people who believe it or not hold this whole thing together.

When CCP wants to findout "Will this hurt too many people?" they head over to the database guys...
"Can you design me a query to show me how many people are connecting with XX hardware?" or whatever...
The answer always comes back "ahh like 1-3%".

CCP started making the mistake of assuming small percentages didn't matter. 1% + 1% + 1% + 1% + 1% + 9% + 2% + 13% + 100%


Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:46:00 - [1288]
 



So if PLEX hording is causing this, what if we simply stop our CC payments and consume PLEX as 30 days game time?

I have 4 years worth of gametime.

Would that stop the MT plans? NO, because the document states clearly the reason is to GENERATE MORE REVENUE for OTHER PRODUCTS.

The plex hording is NOT the reason for this. READ THE DOCUMENT.


Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:47:00 - [1289]
 

Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 23/06/2011 13:46:56
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Intro:
Vanity MT = monocles and other harmless stuff.
Power MT = game outcome changing items like super ships, faction boosters, super ammo etc.

Imho since mods are not locking this thread there are two possible scenarios:

1) There is a CCP internal struggle raging. The CCP "anti-power-MT" faction slipped this document so that we could help them against the otherwise unstoppable power of the very lead game designer.
In this case we should support the guys like that the economist, who are pro-vanity but against power-aurum items.

2) Inside CCP there are equal pro and against factions and they let out this document to see our reaction. What we do and say here will be used at the next guidelines, corporate currents will become more powerful, others will go under.


In any case, this document slipped just too well timed, it's not a coincidence.
They even say they are watching.


In any case this framing of the problem eliminates the "No MT" option Twisted Evil

Kronir
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:47:00 - [1290]
 

Originally by: Kronir
The bottom-line is that change is in the wind. And the current iteration of Incarna along with the public comments of CCP show which way the wind is going to be blowing.

The document may well be a 'debate'...but the decission has already been made. If it hadn't already been made - we wouldn't be where we are today.


And this is the way the wind is blowing...

Originally by: General Windypops


It's not a troll in the slightest. I have more money than you in real life, but less time than most of you because I have a higher powered job. Is it fair that I should be penalised by NOT having things in game just because you have a less successful career?




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