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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:04:00 - [1231]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

If you are totally desperate you can just send stuff to my listed VAERT charity corp.



Why do CCPs tax write-offs for them?
Let them sort out their own tax ****.


old troll is old

CCP stated they don't use the charities for tax benefits as they don't donate in the name of CCP but in the name of the EVE players.


Really? wow that's just dumb, throwing away free money!

Bet that's just more of the same bull**** from CCP.

EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:04:00 - [1232]
 

Long, LONG time player, first time complainer.

First they said CQ would be a solo experience ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Then they said MT would be for vanity items only ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Then they make it hard for me to run my 4 accounts ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Now they are talking about MT for stuff in game, that effects me ... AND I CAN NO LONGER SAY NOTHING.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:05:00 - [1233]
 

Edited by: Jade Constantine on 23/06/2011 13:09:32

Originally by: Verone

I tend to agree on all counts (a scary notion for the pair of us, I know). The fact of the matter is that it's been just over a day since release of Incarna. I'll wait to see what gets fixed, rolled out, polished and repaired in the coming patches before I resort to throwing my toys around.


The newsletter was more of a shock to my system than the CQ/noble store fiasco has been in truth. And that was out there in ccp land for a while (allegedly) I desperately hoped it was faked but it is looking increasinly likely it was not and it sells a brand of clueless that I find frankly staggering. How somebody can rise to such a senior position in an online game without possessing any apparent understanding of the community the game was based on boggles my mind.

Here’s the reality Verone – CCP stand to lose more revenue in lost multi-account users via the mandatory/ un-optimized CQ than they gain from forcing people to view the 3d environment vanity display case. If there was a quick fix in the works shouldn't we have heard about it ? Or does the fact that this issue was raised often and loudly during SISI testing but entirely ignored tell you that this aspect is not going to be fixed.

We need to raise a storm to get CCP to backtrack on the removal of the mandatory CQ view and get a disembark from hanger view option to restore the eve client to former multi client/medium performance rig capabiliy. This is not a argument for mutely saying "lets wait and see." The irony is its for their good AND ours. Forcibly dumping (showing the door) to large sections of multi client using player base is commercial nonsense.

And on the Noble Store.

If they had set the Aurum store at a sensible level they would have made considerably more money from day one. I myself had prepped a billion isk worth of plexes to buy my character clothes and chances are would have spent the money happily were it possible to buy a whole outfit for that price. But the outrageous greed “the gorden gecko effect” meant that I took one look at the monocle and skirts and said screw that – let it rot. And I’m pretty damned sure I’m not the only one feeling this way.

This is indicative of bad business decision-making on the part of developers who have now shown they have no real idea what they are doing. What the hell is the CSM for if not to run some proposed numbers for aurum prices past them to sanity check the concept before going live with it? Even mittani is shaking his head and saying he had no clue this was the pricing level they were aiming at. It tells me that the "biz-devs" knew this was going to annoy the community immensely and no way the CSM would have told them it was a good idea. Firing the consultants and advisers is always a good way to get a well-crafted policy right?

Unless we as a community make a noise and protest this then these bad decision-makers will drag the Eve we know and love to an early grave and it will be a great shame and tragedy for us all.

That leaked internal newsletter gives us insight into the rot that has taken hold in the minds here. Question to us is whether we sit down and take it or get up and do something about it. I'm not a player to talk idly about quitting this game and truthfully I don't intend to - but I'm damned if I'm going to sit down and let my hobby go quietly into the night because some marketing numpty got his back of a beermat sums wrong to such disastrous impact.






Tammarr
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:07:00 - [1234]
 

Hmmm. As been suggested to me now.

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.

Viewing the document in the light off an inhouse, start a debate source. Yeah, quite plausible and shouldnt be used to judge ccp.
But rather 'hey, how do you all feel about this. were should we be going with mt'
What do they actually say in the document? No they are arguing different points of views; They are saying precious little if you dont take qoutes out of context.


Nikki West
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:08:00 - [1235]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine

Here is the problem Verone.

Sure when you have been playing Eve as long as we have you learn to take the rough with the smooth but you do so with the general feeling that CCP developers understand and “get” what makes Eve great – and that’s the problem now. This internal newsletter (if real) shows that one of the leading developers does not “get eve” does not care about eve, and simply sees eve as a cash cow to be milked ferociously to fund other projects. This is about keeping the golden goose of eve subscriptions (on a drip feed if necessary) while chasing and grubbing every little loose cent he can from the player base.

Let me give you a couple of examples of how this can and does (and has already) impacted our enjoyment of this game:

1. The Captains Quarters – it’s not gameplay its a display cabinet for vanity items. And the price of this display cabinet for you and I is that multi-client performance in stations is now terrible – if you have a bad graphic card it’s a jerk fest – if you have a decent graphics card it’s heat-fest. I can run 3-4 clients with CQ’s turned on – I can run it smoothly – but do I want to? Hell no because my Gtx 580 sounds like its melting my motherboard now! So I need to turn off the CQ’s on multiple accounts and as a result have more limited functionality on those accounts and an ugly wallpaper. No more station environment, no more clicking on my ship to open cargo hold, no more dragging ship to the hanger to board it. The delivery of the CQ vanity item display case has impacted my gameplay.

CCP could have made it optional and given us the option of keeping the old hanger view and added a “disembark ship” option to the UI but “oh no” to do that would have meant we weren’t being forced to look the vanity display case that marketing insisted must be front and centre if we’re to even think about buying these ridiculously overpriced items from the Noble store.

2. If you read the newsletter you’ll see reference to saved fitting slots – and I don’t know about you Verone but in JF we’ve run out of saved corp ship fittings. We want CCP to up the limit but is that really going to happen while the “biz-devs” talk honeyed words about how to squeeze extra income from players for such “minor upgrades.”? How long till we pay aurum for extra corp standing slots? For wardec options? For a usable corp management screen?

3. And who develops these vanity items? Yes thats right its Eve artists and developers whose salary we pay with our subscriptions. Given the choice wouldn’t you rather have engine trials and flashy cyno effect for all players rather than a bunch of overpriced tat in the Aur store for a fleeced few?

Because that is precisely the compromise being made here -> CCP using our subs money to pay for vanity item production they want to sell back to us for greedy prices and it is something you SHOULD get mad about.

So here’s the thing.

The time to fight for the game we love is not in six months time when these concepts have bedded down and CCP is feeling bold enough to start selling Noble Faction ammo and +9 implants. The time to fight is now. Because this newsletter embodies everything that many of us feared but didn’t want to believe CCP were becoming capable of. It is a massive betrayal of the compact we shared as players and developers of this game and indicates that CCP is preparing to leap down a very dark and deep path of self-immolation in the months to come.

I don’t want to see Eve Online die Verone. That sounds dramatic I know, but gameworlds die when the dreams and visions are extinguished and that can happen through a succession of bad ideas foisted on a community by people who really don’t have much of a clue in business.


+1
Well said.

Jason1138
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:11:00 - [1236]
 

CCP employees have posted on several other threads this morning. the fact that they haven't posted on this one saying this document is fake should confirm its totally real for those of you still in doubt

G0rdon Gekko
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:11:00 - [1237]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Hmmm. As been suggested to me now.

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.

Viewing the document in the light off an inhouse, start a debate source. Yeah, quite plausible and shouldnt be used to judge ccp.
But rather 'hey, how do you all feel about this. were should we be going with mt'
What do they actually say in the document? No they are arguing different points of views; They are saying precious little if you dont take qoutes out of context.




Precisely. I wasn't joking when I said that. I think some people are just too dumb and overexcited to notice that.

Caladan Broood
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:12:00 - [1238]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Hmmm. As been suggested to me now.

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.

Viewing the document in the light off an inhouse, start a debate source. Yeah, quite plausible and shouldnt be used to judge ccp.
But rather 'hey, how do you all feel about this. were should we be going with mt'
What do they actually say in the document? No they are arguing different points of views; They are saying precious little if you dont take qoutes out of context.




CCP alts should at least remember to log into their damn game and create an avatar before posting. Know how I know you haven't been into the game recently??

Second look at the opinion of one of the lead game designers carries more weight than a junior junior associate. Who do you think plays directly with management and has the most influence?

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:13:00 - [1239]
 

Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Long, LONG time player, first time complainer.

First they said CQ would be a solo experience ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Then they said MT would be for vanity items only ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Then they make it hard for me to run my 4 accounts ... AND I SAID NOTHING
Now they are talking about MT for stuff in game, that effects me ... AND I CAN NO LONGER SAY NOTHING.



Cheers, Synns. Flying with you and DUCK this past month has been the most fun I've had in the 1.2 years or so I've been playing this game. That cap gank was awesome, huh? Shame about this mess, here. All we'll have in the end is memories.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:13:00 - [1240]
 

Originally by: G0rdon Gekko

Precisely. I wasn't joking when I said that. I think some people are just too dumb and overexcited to notice that.



You might care to note that one of the viewpoints (pro MT) was the lead game designer for Eve. The other wasn't.

Also post with your main if you're going to do damage control for your company.

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:14:00 - [1241]
 

I for one am enjoying my monocle and look forward to a matching tophat of +5 awesomeness.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:15:00 - [1242]
 

Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra
I for one am enjoying my monocle and look forward to a matching tophat of +5 awesomeness.


you clearly aren't a normal human then.

Reed Tiburon
Caldari
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:16:00 - [1243]
 

Originally by: G0rdon Gekko
Originally by: Tammarr
Hmmm. As been suggested to me now.

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.

Viewing the document in the light off an inhouse, start a debate source. Yeah, quite plausible and shouldnt be used to judge ccp.
But rather 'hey, how do you all feel about this. were should we be going with mt'
What do they actually say in the document? No they are arguing different points of views; They are saying precious little if you dont take qoutes out of context.




Precisely. I wasn't joking when I said that. I think some people are just too dumb and overexcited to notice that.



Says the man named "Gordon Gekko" commenting on a leaked PDF titled "Greed is Good"

LaughingLaughingLaughing

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:17:00 - [1244]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: G0rdon Gekko

Precisely. I wasn't joking when I said that. I think some people are just too dumb and overexcited to notice that.



You might care to note that one of the viewpoints (pro MT) was the lead game designer for Eve. The other wasn't.

Also post with your main if you're going to do damage control for your company.


I don't get what the hell your point has to do with it. I am the Online Marketing Director for a very large UK company and at one of my last direct report away days I led a discussion on why we should immediately take down our websites. The purpose was for us to help understand exactly what role our web presence played, and what our priorities were.

It's actually fairly good management practice to encourage your staff to explore radical, sometimes shocking options to encourage them to think more creatively.

Lots of people misquoting and partially quoting what was in essence a very artificial agent provocateur style article.

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:18:00 - [1245]
 

If only we could fit monocles and tophats to our super caps.

Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:19:00 - [1246]
 

Originally by: Republica Winder
Several miles across the border of stupidity!


It's the new CCP motto!

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:19:00 - [1247]
 

Originally by: Caladan Broood
Originally by: Tammarr
garbage


CCP alts should at least remember to log into their damn game and create an avatar before posting.


LOL!

Sloshyblooms
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:20:00 - [1248]
 

Edited by: Sloshyblooms on 23/06/2011 13:20:20
CCP:

I decided to cancel my accounts a few days ago. It's looking like a better decision every day. I didn't cancel my subscriptions because you're game sucks or because I got bored of it. I canceled because of the direction you are taking it.
Over the last few weeks (fan site licenses, adding walking in stations while neglecting the actual game, micro transactions, new forums disaster, this newsletter, etc.) it's become clear to me that CCP no longer values or understands the experience that makes EVE great. I don't know whether you are out of touch or have actually become that greedy, but I have had enough.

Your business plan needs to be looked at.

P.S. $60 for a monocle made of pixels on the internet? WTF are you smoking.


Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:20:00 - [1249]
 

Originally by: General Windypops
Lots of people misquoting and partially quoting what was in essence a very artificial agent provocateur style article.



Irony overload.

GTFO muppet.

Liza la'fabre
Gallente
Keep It Simple Stupid
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:20:00 - [1250]
 

1.4Bil isk for a god-damn monocle!?
really is the economy that bad in iceland after the Landsbanki debacle.

Iloni Atoriandra
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:24:00 - [1251]
 

No one is forcing you to get a monocle, if you are rich then get one and if you are a poor scrub who shouldnt be wearing a monocle then dont because you cant and are poor.

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:25:00 - [1252]
 

Originally by: Caladan Broood
Originally by: Tammarr
Hmmm. As been suggested to me now.

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.

Viewing the document in the light off an inhouse, start a debate source. Yeah, quite plausible and shouldnt be used to judge ccp.
But rather 'hey, how do you all feel about this. were should we be going with mt'
What do they actually say in the document? No they are arguing different points of views; They are saying precious little if you dont take qoutes out of context.




CCP alts should at least remember to log into their damn game and create an avatar before posting. Know how I know you haven't been into the game recently??

Second look at the opinion of one of the lead game designers carries more weight than a junior junior associate. Who do you think plays directly with management and has the most influence?


This is an alt, I dont play with this alt much, but its my forum posting alt =)
If you read my other posts, you'll find alot of criticism about cq and some moves by ccp.
I nerdraged alittle about this document and the supposed findings, I read it quickly first time.
I then reevaluate my stance seeing certain people getting banned and promises of 'youll soon know why this was bad' as well as other forums posts, suggesting this is fake to harm ccp out of nerdrage. Then I read it once more when told by the most logical man I know to read it as two debate articles in one.
My stance changes, my pov adapts, I see a document quite plausible meant for creating inhouse debate, the document says nothing. It argues for various points in order for the intended readers(CCP employees) to form a opinion of their own. Noone calls a document gordon gekko edition if its not highly satirical.
Gordon gekko being a name most will link directly to overwhelming greed: Its either faked/satir or its light heartedly meant to get you thinking with such a shocker for a name =)

Read the document. Read it as a doc meant for creating debate. Don't take qoutes out of context. Any rage you feel atm will quite quickly give way as your rational mind and logic takes control and tells you the actual truth. Have some valium before reading if fellings are running high.


HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:26:00 - [1253]
 

Originally by: Caladan Broood
Originally by: Tammarr
Hmmm. As been suggested to me now.

The document contains in essence two extremely opposing views talking about MT, pulling qoutes of out the blue always looks bad.
It is quite possible the document is legit, and is an attempt to create inhouse debate over MT and try to get new ideas coming in.

Viewing the document in the light off an inhouse, start a debate source. Yeah, quite plausible and shouldnt be used to judge ccp.
But rather 'hey, how do you all feel about this. were should we be going with mt'
What do they actually say in the document? No they are arguing different points of views; They are saying precious little if you dont take qoutes out of context.




CCP alts should at least remember to log into their damn game and create an avatar before posting. Know how I know you haven't been into the game recently??

Second look at the opinion of one of the lead game designers carries more weight than a junior junior associate. Who do you think plays directly with management and has the most influence?


ccp alt it is.

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:26:00 - [1254]
 

Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Jade Constantine
...lots of things...


I tend to agree on all counts (a scary notion for the pair of us, I know).

The fact of the matter is that it's been just over a day since release of Incarna.

I'll wait to see what gets fixed, rolled out, polished and repaired in the coming patches before I resort to throwing my toys around.



I do understand, but JC never jadeposted something as good as this.

leth ghost
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:26:00 - [1255]
 

Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra
No one is forcing you to get a monocle, if you are rich then get one and if you are a poor scrub who shouldnt be wearing a monocle then dont because you cant and are poor.


it will be people like you that stay and get milked for your $$ as ccp carry out there plans for the future

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:27:00 - [1256]
 

At first I jokingly thought: "Cool, I'll give CCP some Aurum and get my unprobable Tengu back!" :) Then I realized that, if this came really true, I wouldn't be the only one: people would buy ships, ammo, faction standing, all out of thin air, all over Empire. Blueprint production? Screw that! We got Aurum! Never mind that it ruins the EVE economy! We are The Greedy Bunch at CCP! Wee! Chaos would ensue: massive lulz suicide ganks, for example. Faction standing loss? Who cares? Aurum to the rescue! Russian bot alliances will get even more supercaps -- courtesy of Aurum! It would literally break the game almost overnight.

People my age don't ragequit. I got 2 years invested in this game, and the thought of quitting never ever occured to me. Today, for the first time, I'm seriously contemplating it, though. Buying in-game advantages simply cannot be. Period.

Rex Liberium
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:27:00 - [1257]
 

Edited by: Rex Liberium on 23/06/2011 13:27:43
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: G0rdon Gekko

Precisely. I wasn't joking when I said that. I think some people are just too dumb and overexcited to notice that.



You might care to note that one of the viewpoints (pro MT) was the lead game designer for Eve. The other wasn't.

Also post with your main if you're going to do damage control for your company.


I don't get what the hell your point has to do with it. I am the Online Marketing Director for a very large UK company and at one of my last direct report away days I led a discussion on why we should immediately take down our websites. The purpose was for us to help understand exactly what role our web presence played, and what our priorities were.

It's actually fairly good management practice to encourage your staff to explore radical, sometimes shocking options to encourage them to think more creatively.

Lots of people misquoting and partially quoting what was in essence a very artificial agent provocateur style article.



Your priorities as a company?? Make money by selling stuff.
Sub-priorities (that's where you come in): Make people think they actually need your product to be happy.

Maybe I should go into marketing....

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:27:00 - [1258]
 

Originally by: leth ghost
Originally by: Iloni Atoriandra
No one is forcing you to get a monocle, if you are rich then get one and if you are a poor scrub who shouldnt be wearing a monocle then dont because you cant and are poor.


it will be people like you that stay and get milked for your $$ as ccp carry out there plans for the future


Sounds good. Would be nice to get rid of all the whining cheapskate bleaters.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:28:00 - [1259]
 

Originally by: Liza la'fabre
1.4Bil isk for a god-damn monocle!?
really is the economy that bad in iceland after the Landsbanki debacle.



Björgólfur Thor Björgólfsson = Landsbanki = Novator Partners = CCPGames

Picture getting clearer?

Celd Drakkar
Posted - 2011.06.23 13:28:00 - [1260]
 

This is yet again another instance of Game Company X thinking they know more about gaming than the majority of the gaming populace. To top it off it is happening in a game which is far more intellectual than probably any other MMO on the market today (ie. people here aren't dumb sheep for the most part).

I found it highly ironic that this is happening as SWG is celebrating its anniversary, and we all remember the way SOE handled the NGE debacle. I thought I would never be as disgusted with a company as I was back then. CCP needs to remember who made this game successful (it wasn't the developers). In an MMO it is the community that will cause a game to thrive or fail, and when you go in a direction completely opposite from what the community wants well...

We all remember the mass exodus away from SWG, and if this is handled as badly as that was then we may see another.


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