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Istyn
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:00:00 - [1081]
 

If a monocle costs $60, how much will a super cap cost?

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:00:00 - [1082]
 

Greatly engineered.

Fearless Vol 1...
the gordon gekko issue...
all the straight out badwill in the document, the humour.

Already on the first page you get told its a spoof. Noone, makes a gordon gekko issue.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:00:00 - [1083]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 23/06/2011 11:01:09
Originally by: Nikki West
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Nikki West
Originally by: General Windypops
I actually don't know what the hell all the fuss is about. Do you honestly NOT expect CCP to look at how best to maximise profit?

You're all insanely naive if so. Not one thing in that document was shocking or surprising. Except for some of the page design.



EVE is already a cash cow - A BIG ONE. Not only does it have a subscription based model with decent player base. It ALSO has a built-in RMT model where players can buy extra game time via GTC/PLEX and sell it for ISK, which adds a lot of extra revenue for €€P.

So yea, we have a right to be angry when they introduce yet another layer of income. I can't think of any other game that wants to milk this much money from player-base.


What utter nonsense. You honestly didn't expect game developers to be looking at options like this? Every single MMO developer is having exactly the same conversations that CCP are. And some of them are changing already - look at what happened with LOTRO's F2P.



What did happen to LOTRO? They completely removed subscription fees and switched to a different model. They didn't add MTs on top of subscriptions because that would be insane - which is what €€P is doing.



And if CCP remove the subscription and go F2MT (Free to Micro transaction - F2P) then it still would stink.

The cost of Eve would rise, just by stealth, by the need to buy ingame stuff to survive/keep up.

I would prefer a sub model because I can budget for it. Plain and simple. I know what I spend and that is that.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:00:00 - [1084]
 

Originally by: Nikki West
What did happen to LOTRO? They completely removed subscription fees and switched to a different model. They didn't add MTs on top of subscriptions because that would be insane - which is what €€P is doing.


LOTRO had no other options left. Their subscriptions plummeted and not even expansions helped retention much. If they didn't go F2P and close the Euro servers then they were going bust.

Anyway they were up-front and honest about it, unlike Eve's lead game designer Neutral

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:01:00 - [1085]
 

Originally by: Miilla

Eve is seen as a payroll for WoD and Dust.

That is their view of Eve. The money source for "other projects", which is true because Warewolves and vampires has a LARGE MASS APPEAL than Scifi.


Eve is such a horrible burden for them.

$14.95/mo for so much work, so much grief, so much stress. There are much better activities to be involved in with the gaming industry beside trying to placate a bunch of tards month by month for no money.

Thing is it was safe, secure, assured. CCP didn't have faith in it though, they saw the future coming and were afraid they couldn't stand up against competition.

I would have kept being 3 of their customers....

General Windypops
The Littlest Hobos
En Garde
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:01:00 - [1086]
 

Originally by: Nikki West
Originally by: General Windypops
Originally by: Nikki West
Originally by: General Windypops
I actually don't know what the hell all the fuss is about. Do you honestly NOT expect CCP to look at how best to maximise profit?

You're all insanely naive if so. Not one thing in that document was shocking or surprising. Except for some of the page design.



EVE is already a cash cow - A BIG ONE. Not only does it have a subscription based model with decent player base. It ALSO has a built-in RMT model where players can buy extra game time via GTC/PLEX and sell it for ISK, which adds a lot of extra revenue for €€P.

So yea, we have a right to be angry when they introduce yet another layer of income. I can't think of any other game that wants to milk this much money from player-base.


What utter nonsense. You honestly didn't expect game developers to be looking at options like this? Every single MMO developer is having exactly the same conversations that CCP are. And some of them are changing already - look at what happened with LOTRO's F2P.



What did happen to LOTRO? They completely removed subscription fees and switched to a different model. They didn't add MTs on top of subscriptions because that would be insane - which is what €€P is doing.


And they charge for expansions.


Wanda Wong
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:03:00 - [1087]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Edited by: Mutnin on 23/06/2011 10:46:34
Someone asked when did they stop caring? My guess when it became more profitable to stop caring.

I will my toss "hat" in to the ring as yet another player whom will un-sub if CCP offers anything more than Vanity items for RMT.

Something else that no one has mentioned in all the hurf burf with the new store and it's prices, ect. It wasn't so long ago that CCP put many of us on the back burner with their famous "18 months" quote.

They claimed to not have enough developers to spread around. Meanwhile there are tons of broken & ignored things with-in EVE yet CCP has developers to make new shiny vanity items yet none to fix long lasting bugs & broken mechanics.


Hahaha, they seem to have ample designers and staff as tehir able to use EVE (their goos with hte golden eggs) to create two more games on the side. My dad alwais told me to finish one thing before starting the next. Hmmm,... now that i'm looking at this,... maby they should also take this in considderation when someone comes up with "Incarna 2.0".

Hey CCP how many AUR to fix the broken problems in FW or hey how about Blasters?

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:03:00 - [1088]
 

Originally by: Verone
Please look at this, and then look at this.

Sums up the situation nicely, I think.

Put the pitchforks down, undock, and kill things.



Verone, you've been brownnosing CCP for so long that you wouldn't recognise a mountain if it slapped you in the face while you tripped over the molehill.

Carmine Lady
Amarr
Sinners.
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:06:00 - [1089]
 

Edited by: Carmine Lady on 23/06/2011 11:08:58
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Verone
Please look at this, and then look at this.

Sums up the situation nicely, I think.

Put the pitchforks down, undock, and kill things.



Verone, you've been brownnosing CCP for so long that you wouldn't recognise a mountain if it slapped you in the face while you tripped over the molehill.


QFT.

editish: forgot +1

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:08:00 - [1090]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Verone, you've been brownnosing CCP for so long that you wouldn't recognise a mountain if it slapped you in the face while you tripped over the molehill.


+1

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:09:00 - [1091]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Verone
Please look at this, and then look at this.

Sums up the situation nicely, I think.

Put the pitchforks down, undock, and kill things.



Verone, you've been brownnosing CCP for so long that you wouldn't recognise a mountain if it slapped you in the face while you tripped over the molehill.
Nah… he gave them a well-deserved ****punch for the developer license and AUR store, if you have the stamina to dig through those threadnaughts.

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:09:00 - [1092]
 

Originally by: Nikki West


What did happen to LOTRO? They completely removed subscription fees and switched to a different model. They didn't add MTs on top of subscriptions because that would be insane - which is what €€P is doing.


They had little choice. However Dungeons & Dragons Online (DDO) looks fascinating from a freemium/f2p perspective. Yes, you can sub if you want, if you do you get an allotment of turbine points (Arumun in EVE terms I guess) to spent on silly and you also get all the content. Or you can give someone a guest pass to get in to some dungeons/quest arcs and play together or you can buy some turbine points yourself and permamently unlock the content you want to play. If you unsub then the unlockables relock (unless you spent points on them previously I guess).

I'm sure there are flaws in the system I've not heard about (I'm just going from the WTF is...) but I can't escape the bit about subscribers get everything being very applicable if what we are hearing is true.

Gnumpf
Jelly Kings
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:10:00 - [1093]
 

Stardate 9522.6: I've never trusted CCP, and I never will. I can never forgive them for the death of my EVE.

DjLowballer
Amarr
Firebird Squadron
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:12:00 - [1094]
 

If anything, the official response might be incredibly funny.

SNeAkYbRiT
Gunslingers Corp
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:14:00 - [1095]
 

Since the patch all Ive done is watch the forum and laugh at CCP, and I havent stopped laughing yet...Im not bothered what happens to them now, Seen CCP screw the customers before in the past when they got caught helping BoB out years ago.

I play via plex which was the intro to micro transactions, so I rely on greedy players who want to pay there way to the top of the pile, but over the last 6 months Ive seen the plex market be manipulated to increase the value...not saying this was just CCP.

So I have a month left and all Im waiting for now is who will have the balls to post on the forums first and when lol

Who will buy CCP out when they start going under? Sony or nVidia? or EA, I brought EA in to this cos CCP are starting to sound so much like them.

Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:14:00 - [1096]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Greatly engineered.

Fearless Vol 1...
the gordon gekko issue...
all the straight out badwill in the document, the humour.

Already on the first page you get told its a spoof. Noone, makes a gordon gekko issue.


I'm tempted to agree. But then the assumption may have been made that it would never see public release and therefore would be a 'witty' internal document.

Personally, if I were CEO, I'd sack who ever wrote/approved it if it were genuine as it demonstrates a clear lack of respect for the consumer which is a bad stance to take in whatever industry you work within.

C.

Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:17:00 - [1097]
 

Originally by: SNeAkYbRiT
Who will buy CCP out when they start going under? Sony or nVidia? or EA, I brought EA in to this cos CCP are starting to sound so much like them.


Start?

No one.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:17:00 - [1098]
 




There will probably be a CCP person posting on Friday...

That way we get to rage even more over the weekend while they go boozing


SNeAkYbRiT
Gunslingers Corp
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:18:00 - [1099]
 

Originally by: Constantinus Maximus
Originally by: SNeAkYbRiT
Who will buy CCP out when they start going under? Sony or nVidia? or EA, I brought EA in to this cos CCP are starting to sound so much like them.


Start?

No one.



lol

Wanda Wong
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:20:00 - [1100]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Verone
Please look at this, and then look at this.

Sums up the situation nicely, I think.

Put the pitchforks down, undock, and kill things.



Verone, you've been brownnosing CCP for so long that you wouldn't recognise a mountain if it slapped you in the face while you tripped over the molehill.


OMGROFLMAO

DrDan21
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:20:00 - [1101]
 

The day they make things that matter available by micro payment is the day I press the cancel subscription button and start playing another game Rolling Eyes

ThirdEyeBlenny
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:20:00 - [1102]
 

Originally by: Riflin' Betty
Originally by: ThirdEyeBlenny


This, wholeheartedly. Go silently the lot of you,


Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

- Dylan Thomas (1914–1953)


Nice one Betty, but bear in mind that it's likely that Dylan's father wasn't a pre-pubescent attention whoring **** :)


Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:20:00 - [1103]
 

Originally by: SNeAkYbRiT
I brought EA in to this cos CCP are starting to sound so much like them.


Activision. Bobby Kotick, CEO. A man who is proud to boast he does not play video games and has stated he prefers repeatable IP's and of those ones that have specialist controllers a player must pay extra for more so than others.

Infogrames (now trading as Atari). Drove themselves in to the ground, ruined any good will and then rebranded themselves, they ban anyone on the forums who makes the connection between the two. Currently in the middle of repeating the good will ruining and will probably rebrand again sometimes in 2012.

EA might not be the best of the best but their are far worse entities out there than Electronic Arts.

Perramas
Caldari
Pan Caldarian Ventures
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:22:00 - [1104]
 

If the EVE24news bulletin was false CCP would have locked this thread and said something by now. CCPs silence on this matter is all the proof I need.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:23:00 - [1105]
 

Originally by: Perramas
If the EVE24news bulletin was false CCP would have locked this thread and said something by now. CCPs silence on this matter is all the proof I need.


Why the bans?


Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:24:00 - [1106]
 

Originally by: DrDan21
The day they make things that matter available by micro payment is the day I press the cancel subscription button and start playing another game Rolling Eyes


This

Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:24:00 - [1107]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Verone
Please look at this, and then look at this.

Sums up the situation nicely, I think.

Put the pitchforks down, undock, and kill things.



Verone, you've been brownnosing CCP for so long that you wouldn't recognise a mountain if it slapped you in the face while you tripped over the molehill.


For the record, I'm extremely disappointed with CCP, and I'm extremely disappointed with Incarna considering I'm an Eve Roleplayer who's been waiting for this expansion for half decade.

I've played for 8 years, I've been a roleplayer for almost that long too, and I've sat back and watched its development for over half a decade. Five years later, what do we get in the initial, much anticipated release?

> A single room, with zero options for customisation.
> Restrictive clothing and character customisation options.
> The ability to pay through the nose for character customisation options that are at best, mediocre.

Ridiculous prices aside, Incarna on the whole leaves a lot to be desired. I do however accept the fact that it's an incremental release, which means the expansion needs the chance to build momentum over a number of patches before I cast judgement on it. I'm patient, I'll wait.

I do agree with the outrage on prices. Considering most average people in the US working mediocre jobs earn <$10/hour, the prices are without a doubt, scandalous. A day's work for a virtual item that has no real effect other than changing the look of an Avatar? Yeah, I'll pass.

I have more money than I know what to do with in Eve, and I earn a very healthy wage out of game, but like hell will I pay for any of these microtransaction based features.

In the end, the outcome is simple :

[ ] Load Station Environment

I'll continue to pay to play internet spaceships, and I'll continue to actively RP in game. I've been doing that for the last 8 years without having to pay extra for them, and I'll continue to do so until Incarna meets a standard that I feel is acceptable enough for me to interact with it.

Right now, it's broken and is at best in early beta stages.

I'm sorely disappointed, I'm unhappy with the release, I'm astonished and appalled with the prices, and as someone who's devoted almost a decade to playing Eve I'm extremely concerned about the direction that CCP is headed and feel they're rapidly losing focus on their direction for Eve as other shiny new projects distract them and they need to find the money to fund them.

I'm not however going to get bent out of shape, create a massive scene, threadnaught the hell out of the forums and be part of a huge drama.

Instead I'm going to do what I've done for a long time : Enjoy the features in Eve that interest me, until those that don't are developed into something that catches my attention.




Iulia Badr Marinela
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:25:00 - [1108]
 


Captain Travaras
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:26:00 - [1109]
 

Originally by: Perramas
If the EVE24news bulletin was false CCP would have locked this thread and said something by now. CCPs silence on this matter is all the proof I need.


yep, there has been no reply from devs today that i have spotted, and in the past few days there has been quite a few replies. I think the controversy with the leaked documents and their intentions for the future have caused a problem. We've had devs tell us recently on the forum that they will not offer ships and game changing items for real money, now the leaked documents suggest otherwise.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.23 11:27:00 - [1110]
 



Can we get coverage on Slashdot for this?




If CCP want press coverage, lets give it to em.


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