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Wanda Wong
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:03:00 - [901]
 

Originally by: Al Gabraith
Originally by: Aineko Macx
I was never so close to cancelling my 3 accounts.

Also inb4l.


I second this .. me also .. 3 accounts..


had three accounts but i've also discontinued payments on two of them to keep them up as the indecisiveness and absence of any and all CCPers is realy starting to anoy me to no extent.

Someone said that CCP loves their game and would not allow anything to downgrade the experiance?

Just check the effort their making to stand up for their actions and statements. Where's CCP now? I know! In a corner with their heads stuck..... well you get my drift,... Evil or Very MadEvil or Very MadEvil or Very Mad

MrSteack
Caldari
Unchained Potential
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:03:00 - [902]
 

Originally by: Jonny Utrigas
So, it should be about 8AM now, anyone care to start making bets on whether this threadnaught will get a response, lock, or both?


Tomorrow, just to make me waste the time staying up late

Kunming
Amarr
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
Xenon-Empire
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:04:00 - [903]
 

Originally by: Donatella D'Tren
Greed is good.

Blind, stupid greed at this level is just meh. wtb new CCP ceo, offering 50 PLEX.


I'll give you 1 PLEX, take it or leave it.

Mikaaro
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:05:00 - [904]
 

Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos
Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 23/06/2011 07:38:50
Originally by: Azahni Vah'nos
One thing to note regarding the validity of the document in question is after having worked at a corporate level before I can guarantee you that a statement would have been made long ago if it was a complete fabrication. What will probably occur is CCP will turn around and say that the views expressed in the document were those of the individual and not those of the company. We'll wait and see.


hehe, they are faster then you, its in the disclaimer of the document Embarassed

problem is, the view is of EVE's lead game designer, so...


Didn't see the disclaimer Smile

And yes if this guy has complete autonomy over the games direction, then it's going to be a pretty scary future for EvE.


I'd like to think that no one man can have autonomy over a games direction in a company as big as CCP.

Jonny Utrigas
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:05:00 - [905]
 

Originally by: Kunming
Originally by: Donatella D'Tren
Greed is good.

Blind, stupid greed at this level is just meh. wtb new CCP ceo, offering 50 PLEX.


I'll give you 1 PLEX, take it or leave it.


You're doing it wrong. If you had volunteered to be the new CEO, you would RECEIVE 50 PLEX.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:07:00 - [906]
 

Originally by: Mikaaro

The economy still works way better than any other MMO and in the years I've played the game has improved a lot. Granted Incarna as it is is just stupid, but I'll at least stick around to see where it actually goes before I condemn it.


Thanks for making me feel not like the only in here willing to see this to the bitter end... and I agree. Incarna in its current forum, feels...unnecessarily early. No social interaction means the CQ are confining, not liberating as emerging from a pod should be, or a place to unwind with friends and show off your monocles. The choice to favor one race, even my own, was bound to invite a ****storm. Everyone pointing out that this was a mistake, I'm with you. I think the fan base could have dealt better with putting Incarna's release off even a few months, than putting it out this early, and having everyone go through a meltdown. Incarna could and probably will bring great things, with enough time and development, but I think it was just a bit too early to prevent a PR explosion.

On the other hand, I have no qualms simply ignoring the NeX in the mean time, using the same item and hangar buttons that were always there to do my ship fitting, and continuing on blowing up spaceships with my friends. They mean more to me than any activism against CCP over a controversial, yet relatively unobtrusive, addition to the game in its current form.

New Eden will get through this in the end, transitions are tough, I encourage players to think about responding to this thread, which is very constructive, informative in terms of feedback to CCP, and will likely have a far greater impact on their response to this kerfluffle than threads like this one, which are filled with so much venom and anger and trash talk it can hardly be responded to seriously. Even I have had a hard time responding to it seriously, even though I care a lot about the game and its community.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:08:00 - [907]
 

Originally by: Cancel Align NOW
30 Pages in a thread that according to the EULA should be locked by page one along with some very disturbing posting - what has happened at ccp?


an internal war is raging in the ccp office perhaps. 50% of the Devs are ragequitting over their idiot lead designer

Slatiska Wolfovna
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:08:00 - [908]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Originally by: Mikaaro

The economy still works way better than any other MMO and in the years I've played the game has improved a lot. Granted Incarna as it is is just stupid, but I'll at least stick around to see where it actually goes before I condemn it.


Thanks for making me feel not like the only in here willing to see this to the bitter end... and I agree. Incarna in its current forum, feels...unnecessarily early. No social interaction means the CQ are confining, not liberating as emerging from a pod should be, or a place to unwind with friends and show off your monocles. The choice to favor one race, even my own, was bound to invite a ****storm. Everyone pointing out that this was a mistake, I'm with you. I think the fan base could have dealt better with putting Incarna's release off even a few months, than putting it out this early, and having everyone go through a meltdown. Incarna could and probably will bring great things, with enough time and development, but I think it was just a bit too early to prevent a PR explosion.

On the other hand, I have no qualms simply ignoring the NeX in the mean time, using the same item and hangar buttons that were always there to do my ship fitting, and continuing on blowing up spaceships with my friends. They mean more to me than any activism against CCP over a controversial, yet relatively unobtrusive, addition to the game in its current form.

New Eden will get through this in the end, transitions are tough, I encourage players to think about responding to this thread, which is very constructive, informative in terms of feedback to CCP, and will likely have a far greater impact on their response to this kerfluffle than threads like this one, which are filled with so much venom and anger and trash talk it can hardly be responded to seriously. Even I have had a hard time responding to it seriously, even though I care a lot about the game and its community.


The problem is that they plan on selling ships for aurums.

Koskovf
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:09:00 - [909]
 

So this just underlines how irrelevent the CSM is - CCP agreed microtransactions for vanity items only, yet in their internal policy documents they've allready decided to do it. So did they deliberatly lie or is the CSM utterly toothles, because one of those options as to be true.

I'm absolutely fine with micortransactions in a F2P game, or for vanity/convenience items in a subscription game - but it sounds high-lvl equipment will need RL money to buy.

CCP - your subscribers are not the same demographic that play F2P games, this model will not work for eve.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:11:00 - [910]
 

Edited by: Gwenywell Shumuku on 23/06/2011 08:12:20
Hans, rage is good. Its needed to mobilize masses. Its that easy.

If you want to change something, you have to get attention. Ppl are lazy, they would rather lean back and wait and hope for the best. But nothing changes if you behave like that.

If you see that the road leads to a place you don't want to go, getting out early or trying to convince the driver to change road is what its needed. It may not always be pleasant, but it works.

Mikaaro
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:11:00 - [911]
 

Originally by: Slatiska Wolfovna
Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Originally by: Mikaaro

The economy still works way better than any other MMO and in the years I've played the game has improved a lot. Granted Incarna as it is is just stupid, but I'll at least stick around to see where it actually goes before I condemn it.


Thanks for making me feel not like the only in here willing to see this to the bitter end... and I agree. Incarna in its current forum, feels...unnecessarily early. No social interaction means the CQ are confining, not liberating as emerging from a pod should be, or a place to unwind with friends and show off your monocles. The choice to favor one race, even my own, was bound to invite a ****storm. Everyone pointing out that this was a mistake, I'm with you. I think the fan base could have dealt better with putting Incarna's release off even a few months, than putting it out this early, and having everyone go through a meltdown. Incarna could and probably will bring great things, with enough time and development, but I think it was just a bit too early to prevent a PR explosion.

On the other hand, I have no qualms simply ignoring the NeX in the mean time, using the same item and hangar buttons that were always there to do my ship fitting, and continuing on blowing up spaceships with my friends. They mean more to me than any activism against CCP over a controversial, yet relatively unobtrusive, addition to the game in its current form.

New Eden will get through this in the end, transitions are tough, I encourage players to think about responding to this thread, which is very constructive, informative in terms of feedback to CCP, and will likely have a far greater impact on their response to this kerfluffle than threads like this one, which are filled with so much venom and anger and trash talk it can hardly be responded to seriously. Even I have had a hard time responding to it seriously, even though I care a lot about the game and its community.


The problem is that they plan on selling ships for aurums.


And if the ships are as crazily overpriced as the monocle they will end up being in effect vanity items as they will have no meaningfull use in the game (Good luck undocking that guardian-vexor without being ganked)

Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:13:00 - [912]
 

Personally I do not think this is a real document. We have seen well crafted hoaxes before, often based on the real thing.

I do think it is very telling that people are willing to believe this one. It shows how differently people view ccp now compared to a year ago.
It shows how hard their credibility has been hit by events recently. Also how much more damaging a few clumsy mistakes in a row can be, compared to finally realizing features that have been in popular demand for a while or even many years (discernable bpc's, server lag reduction, probing unprobable ships, etc).

But there is also a silver lining, people still care about eve.
You do not get this kind of response if the people affected do not realy care about it.


Jonny Utrigas
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:13:00 - [913]
 

Edited by: Jonny Utrigas on 23/06/2011 08:18:00
Originally by: Koskovf

CCP - your subscribers are not the same demographic that play F2P games, this model will not work for eve.


THIS. I've left every MMO I played that introduced MT, because it was always something that was just not for me.

Edit to add this: I did, and will stick around to see how things go, but in every other game I played where MT became the only way to get the "really cool" stuff (aka making people become uber OMGWTFBBQPWNZOR because they bought their stuff with RL cash, and not from playing the game) I left.

Gwenywell Shumuku
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:14:00 - [914]
 

Originally by: Mikaaro

And if the ships are as crazily overpriced as the monocle they will end up being in effect vanity items as they will have no meaningfull use in the game (Good luck undocking that guardian-vexor without being ganked)


But as they want to sell it, they will make it so you can't get ganked, at least in highsec, anymore. See, once the priority is set (MT), the path is layed out, and they would be fools not to do it (business is business)

MrSteack
Caldari
Unchained Potential
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:15:00 - [915]
 

Originally by: Jonny Utrigas
Originally by: Koskovf

CCP - your subscribers are not the same demographic that play F2P games, this model will not work for eve.


THIS. I've left every MMO I played that introduced MT, because it was always something that was just not for me.


+1

Isil Rahsen
Gallente
Ferrum Superum
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:16:00 - [916]
 

Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
Originally by: Mikaaro

And if the ships are as crazily overpriced as the monocle they will end up being in effect vanity items as they will have no meaningfull use in the game (Good luck undocking that guardian-vexor without being ganked)


But as they want to sell it, they will make it so you can't get ganked, at least in highsec, anymore. See, once the priority is set (MT), the path is layed out, and they would be fools not to do it (business is business)
:shudder: jesus christ

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:17:00 - [917]
 

Originally by: Leneerra
Personally I do not think this is a real document. We have seen well crafted hoaxes before, often based on the real thing.


Its an exact copy of a document seen by CSM members. The full version (with company metrics) is online.

Its no hoax.

Candi Storm
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:19:00 - [918]
 

EPIC FAIL CCP!!!!!

Think it's time to go back to WoW.Shocked

Gothikia
Regeneration
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:20:00 - [919]
 

Originally by: Cancel Align NOW
30 Pages in a thread that according to the EULA should be locked by page one along with some very disturbing posting - what has happened at ccp?


I'm guessing they're pooing themselves for causing the biggest blowback since RMR...

Token Afrodude
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:22:00 - [920]
 

Originally by: Mikaaro
Now that we're getting something other than emorage, we can actually start to discuss.

So this would basically crash EVEs economy model. Now think about that for a second. You guys actually think CCP would do this? Really? You think they're that stupid?

For me this just proves that this is a very epic troll.



Boot.ini. next?




Jonny Utrigas
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:23:00 - [921]
 

Edited by: Jonny Utrigas on 23/06/2011 08:23:53
Originally by: Leneerra

Its no hoax.


Whether or not it's a hoax, I pity the person selected to deal with this PR disaster. This has gone well beyond the EVE forums now. I don't the DC2 is going to save them at this point, nor will having 80 guardians and 120 basilisks to repair this mess.

Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:24:00 - [922]
 

Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Leneerra
Personally I do not think this is a real document. We have seen well crafted hoaxes before, often based on the real thing.


Its an exact copy of a document seen by CSM members. The full version (with company metrics) is online.

Its no hoax.



Ok, ok...so a little clarification please. (and no, I'm not being sarcastic this time) If this is an exact copy, what do you mean by "full version with company metrics" ? Is this an abbreviated version, or an exact copy?

And I'm sure everyone's terrified to link publically more documents that might get them permabanned if the conspiracy turns out to be true, but I welcome private evemails with linkage to any more detailed versions than the one posted on the original Evenews24 site.

If there is more to this than what is shown on EveNews24's Chribba files link pdf, please get me that info. Though I've been pretty blatant I think this is either a) a forgery and troll attempt or b) a joking, tongue-in-cheek internal memo that was meant for company laughs, not embarassing public distribution, I will keep an open mind as long as there are more facts to draw on.

Token Afrodude
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:24:00 - [923]
 

Originally by: Jonny Utrigas
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Leneerra

Its no hoax.


Whether or not it's a hoax, I pity the person selected to deal with this PR disaster. This has gone well beyond the EVE forums now. I don't the DC2 is going to save them at this point, nor will having 80 guardians and 120 basilisks to repair this mess.



they are honor tanking this one LaughingLaughingRolling Eyes

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:25:00 - [924]
 

Originally by: Cancel Align NOW
30 Pages in a thread that according to the EULA should be locked by page one along with some very disturbing posting - what has happened at ccp?
In the spirit of remaining hopeful:

Maybe they have actually learned something…

No, I have gone beyond believing that myself, but like I said: "hopeful"… Neutral

Mikaaro
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:26:00 - [925]
 

Originally by: Gwenywell Shumuku
Originally by: Mikaaro

And if the ships are as crazily overpriced as the monocle they will end up being in effect vanity items as they will have no meaningfull use in the game (Good luck undocking that guardian-vexor without being ganked)


But as they want to sell it, they will make it so you can't get ganked, at least in highsec, anymore. See, once the priority is set (MT), the path is layed out, and they would be fools not to do it (business is business)


This pretty much proves you're a troll.

Elzon1
Caldari
Shadow Boys Corp
Bloodbound.
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:26:00 - [926]
 

Edited by: Elzon1 on 23/06/2011 08:30:34
Wow, look at all the drama llamas.

Alright, now its the time for a voice of reason.

Most of you are complaining about how this has a possibility of making EVE Online a rich kids playground full of golden overpowered ships and instant gratification. But, have you given any thought to how such a thing would be implemented into the existing market?

Do you really think its going to be the case that you turn a plex into aurum and then buy a overpowered battleship with it and it just poofs it into existence. Everyone knows that is far too simple for the market in EVE.

Instead of poofing a ship, module, or ammo into existence... don't you think it would simply give you a bpc instead, just like everything else? So in order to build the ship you still need the minerals for it don't you? What about the skill requirements to build it? The skill requirements to fly it?

Sure, as long as CCP doesn't allow the purchasing of SP they could just buy a character with isk and PLEX from the character bizzare right? So that costs them more PLEX. Then they would probably have to buy minerals off the market from other players, am I right? And after getting all of that together one still has to take the materials to the right place so as to wait for it's contruction to complete.

After all of that they probably end up with a shiny ship with only a little more firepower/capabilities than its counterparts for possibly two or three times the cost! What if the bpc wasn't in the new shop, but was in the respective loyalty point store? Then that person would have take the time to grind up enough loyalty points and isk in order to make the purchase of the bpc.

I really don't think some rich snob will be able to come up in here and hit an "I win button" its not going to be that simple. I'm sure if a snob came into EVE and thought he was going to win because he was rich would learn a few lessons about EVE fairly quickly. If he decides to undock in one of the new ships with a full fitting of the new shinies he will be ganked pretty quickly.

EVE Online is a very harsh game and is not the easiest to "win" and I'm sure most of us would like to give a warm 1400mm welcome to those bold enough to show off their wealth. This is EVE not some garden variety MMO. Even with aurum we will still have the player driven market and all the lovely pirates.

Most of this stuff will be vanity only, so it really doesn't matter that much. And for the devs to come up with new ships, modules, and ammunition it will take some time to tie them into the existing base of items as well as properly balancing them to thier counterparts. It's not like there will be a huge selection of new stuff immediately it will take lots of time for each non-vanity item to come out and we will have time to flame the devs on their decisions if we think they are doing something wrong.

Of course, the only way they could screw this up is if they made aurum into its own seperate market and that would be hard since it's based on PLEX. Nonetheless, non-vanity items should be subject to the existing game and market mechanics, NO EXCEPTIONS.

So have no fear my fellow capsuleers EVE will still be here.


Ranita Drell
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:26:00 - [927]
 

Originally by: Koskovf
So this just underlines how irrelevent the CSM is - CCP agreed microtransactions for vanity items only, yet in their internal policy documents they've allready decided to do it. So did they deliberatly lie or is the CSM utterly toothles, because one of those options as to be true.

If accurate, this is what should really raise the ire of player in the game who has a shred of concern about the integrity of the game and the people they're paying to maintain and develop it.

So just to make sure it's accurate, I dug up the source for what you're saying here.

Originally by: CCP Zulu
It‘s clear that it‘s the will of the community to keep virtual goods sales outside the spectrum of what we classify as the "merit economy". That refers to skills gained over time or items that have a gameplay impact. So after discussions, designs, brainstorming and all sorts of processes we‘ve come up with a strategy that we‘ve already polished with the help of the CSM and would now want to present to the larger community.

Virtual goods sales in EVE Online will evolve through sales of vanity items, first in Incarna but later in-space features. The scope will be (and there‘s no design has been done around this, we‘re just talking strategy now) that anything that doesn‘t affect gameplay directly can be, potentially, sold for PLEX or other means. Ideas that have come up include Incarna clothing and furniture, logos on spaceships and swapping out portraits. This is by no means a comprehensive list, nor is it a commitment that said items will be available for sale, I mention these as an example for what type of items we‘re thinking about.

Note that there is a little wiggle room here. He says "evolve through the sale of vanity items", but doesn't say where that evolution will end.

It does strongly suggest that item sales that interfere with the "merit economy" are off the table, at the very least for the duration of the Incarna era.

If the "evolve through the sale of vanity items" bit was a carefully chosen phrase to open the door for the sorts of things mentioned in the OP's link, well, that's sneaky and deceptive enough to basically be considered a lie in my book anyway. Either way, I think it would be fair to say that, at best, CCP is exploiting a loophole in a commitment made to the players and CSM, and they should be regarded as having absolutely zero credibility.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:26:00 - [928]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Leneerra
Personally I do not think this is a real document. We have seen well crafted hoaxes before, often based on the real thing.


Its an exact copy of a document seen by CSM members. The full version (with company metrics) is online.

Its no hoax.



Ok, ok...so a little clarification please. (and no, I'm not being sarcastic this time) If this is an exact copy, what do you mean by "full version with company metrics" ? Is this an abbreviated version, or an exact copy?

And I'm sure everyone's terrified to link publically more documents that might get them permabanned if the conspiracy turns out to be true, but I welcome private evemails with linkage to any more detailed versions than the one posted on the original Evenews24 site.

If there is more to this than what is shown on EveNews24's Chribba files link pdf, please get me that info. Though I've been pretty blatant I think this is either a) a forgery and troll attempt or b) a joking, tongue-in-cheek internal memo that was meant for company laughs, not embarassing public distribution, I will keep an open mind as long as there are more facts to draw on.


Ain't skeert: Full unedited version from CCP

Jonny Utrigas
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:27:00 - [929]
 

From what I've gathered there are two versions, the evenews24 version missing a few pages, and a "complete" version someone linked in their twitter. Now I know searching through this threadnaughts 49 pages sucks but, it's there. I'm not logged into my EVE client currently or I would mail you with the pertinent info.

Token Afrodude
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:27:00 - [930]
 

Originally by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Leneerra
Personally I do not think this is a real document. We have seen well crafted hoaxes before, often based on the real thing.


Its an exact copy of a document seen by CSM members. The full version (with company metrics) is online.

Its no hoax.



Ok, ok...so a little clarification please. (and no, I'm not being sarcastic this time) If this is an exact copy, what do you mean by "full version with company metrics" ? Is this an abbreviated version, or an exact copy?

And I'm sure everyone's terrified to link publically more documents that might get them permabanned if the conspiracy turns out to be true, but I welcome private evemails with linkage to any more detailed versions than the one posted on the original Evenews24 site.

If there is more to this than what is shown on EveNews24's Chribba files link pdf, please get me that info. Though I've been pretty blatant I think this is either a) a forgery and troll attempt or b) a joking, tongue-in-cheek internal memo that was meant for company laughs, not embarassing public distribution, I will keep an open mind as long as there are more facts to draw on.



read VIA twitter from quite a few people it's an exact duplicate of a hardcopy they had received prior. i'll try and dig up links.


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