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blankseplocked Exactly why do people hate Incarna so much?
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Alara IonStorm
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:34:00 - [181]

Originally by: Terrorform
1. Because it is once again another update that fails to deliver the balance changes that paying players have been asking for for months!
5. Because hybrids are still crap. - Oh how long will CCP make us wait!!! How long!!

This, so much this.

I can disable TQ, I can not disable Hybrids Sucking.

Shigeru Potatomoto
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:34:00 - [182]

Edited by: Shigeru Potatomoto on 22/06/2011 15:34:48
They're angry because they've just been reminded of the major drawback of PC gaming: expensive hardware and your **** may or may not work with new games and updates.

They're angry they can't run five clients at once. EVE, as we know, runs on alts.

They're angry they bought a year's subscription before this all happened.

Maeve Kelly
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:35:00 - [183]

Originally by: Lyrrashae
Edited by: Lyrrashae on 22/06/2011 14:51:40
This is SO funny considering this person ISN'T a developer...they are just a gamer....LOL! Some of you people think that you are just SO smart.....

Oh Gods Above and Below, will you gimme a f***ing break!!!!! SurprisedShockedRolling Eyes

It is so bloody obvious!

Well you are bloody is why I think it is SO funny that you continue to insist they are a developer! Laughing

Maeve Kelly
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:37:00 - [184]

Edited by: Maeve Kelly on 22/06/2011 15:39:15
Originally by: Jenshae Chiroptera
This is a forum. What do you expect?

Guess I expected too much of Eve gamers....that is for sure...Crying or Very sad

I gave them too much credit....

Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:40:00 - [185]

Edited by: Uninhabited on 22/06/2011 15:40:54
People just arent thinking of the possibilities.

I for one am looking forward to dressing up my corpse trophies in the latest fashion so i can drag them around with me like ragdolls when the full station environment is completed.

Aren't you?

knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:43:00 - [186]

If I didn't care about this game all these screw ups would be sheer comedy.

Why do people hate incarna? Eve is internet space ships, allot of its broken. Incarna is broken. Go figure.

Malaclypse Muscaria
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:45:00 - [187]

Originally by: Fredfredbug4
Does it ruin EVE gameplay? Nope, all Incarna is right now is just standing in a room. How does this ruin gameplay?

You are missing the point. CCP has been developing Incarna for 5+ years, and devoting to it the majority of their resources at least for the last 18 months. And in the meantime, lackluster half-baked rushed-out expansions and features such as Factional Warfare or Planetary Interaction have been pretty much left to rot. No new ships with Incarna - such as the T3 frigates that have been mentioned in the past - or rebalancing existing ones or any other new shinies pertaining to the core of what EVE was supposed to be about: spaceships.

And Incarna is so utterly useless as released (not to mention how it's been forced on us), it's going to take a whole lot more development resources in the future to give it any sort of purpose - even if it's a purpose the majority(?) of us don't give a sh*t about, or would rather play another game specifically designed from the ground up for it. Resources that could be used to further flesh out, develop and expand on EVE's spaceships core.

That's how us, the ones who play and subscribe to EVE for internet spaceships, feel we've been screwed with this whole new direction CCP is taking the game, and how Incarna has affected our gameplay: look up "opportunity cost".

It's not going "forward", it's going "sideways".

Dorian Wylde
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:50:00 - [188]

Not reading 7 pages, responding to the OP:

I don't hate Incarna. I hate the obscene amount of developer time that has been spent on it, rather than being spent of fixing the dozen or so half assed major gameplay features such as FW, PI, low sec, industry, etc. I actually stopped playing for 6-8 months last year after they released a dev blog detailing how many people they were taking off the actual game in order to shove this nonsense out. I decided to stop paying for a game they weren't going to work on anymore.

I also hate that CQ is apparently not optional like they originally said it would be. I don't care how much you're able to compress the data, loading an entire 3d environment is going to take more time and resources than the old docking system. Just make it optional and you instantly make every player happy, AND don't have to throw out the old code.

EVE is supposed to be a sandbox, where each player gets to decide how they want to play. I want to play with spaceships. I don't care AT ALL about having a regular avatar. If I want that, I'll go play one of the other thousands of video games on the market.

Haulie Berry
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:53:00 - [189]

I'm just curious. It seems rather blind to me. What's the logic behind all of this?

Does it ruin EVE gameplay? Nope, all Incarna is right now is just standing in a room. How does this ruin gameplay?

It's not that it "ruins" the gameplay - it's that Incarna represents a vast amount of development time that was wasted on something that does not IMPROVE the gameplay.

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:19:00 - [190]

To all you hating people: Vote with yout feet and GTFO?

Sapphire Fangborn
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:29:00 - [191]

It's pretty subjective to condemn this expansion. Pretty deja vu as well.

I played Dungeons and Dragons from 2006 to recently, and they've had had microtransactions and a successful free to play model for a while now. The free to play/microtransaction mechanics are trending to become more and more prevalent in gaming and are here to stay - it's profitable and brings in the new players games need to survive.

When the microtransactions and DDO Store were announced there was all kinds of outcry and protest and threats to quit, most plaintively from veterans. At that time, I wasn't crazy about the concept either. But frankly I ended up quite liking it once it went live for the fun factor, and quite a few vets adapted. There are plenty of parallels with Eve when it comes to how the community is responding - all MMOs seem to have the same kind of forum rage. The senior citizen vets hate change that isn't old school, and have angst towards anyone that likes newfangled ideas etc.

In time, vets will either adapt and be flexible, or move on to um, don't know what. :p Minecraft?

The thing I find odd, is that this same community seems to see buying plex as a good short cut to getting isk and insta-trained characters (personally think that's a massive humungous cheat - so I won't do it). The exchange of plex for aurim, on the other hand, to enable buying cosmetic/fluff items seems harmless compared to the plex for isk/effortless character trading.

Incarna is potentially fun for players with imagination. I don't see why being a space ship pilot in Eve would entail having no glimpse of a flesh and blood clone that needs upkeep. That's taking modesty to a new level. :P

I hope the company will lower the cosmetic prices, and give us some kind of wardrobe so that we can switch back to the free clothing when there's a risk of losing the fancy stuff in battle.

I like the expansion, but then I'm not an senior in Eve (3 months in Eve), and I've been this route before in DDO.


Adhocracy Incorporated
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:30:00 - [192]

CHecking in to say I currently hate Incarna so much because, as a mac user, it won't even patch up at the moment.

Maybe it's really cool in game but I wouldn't know

Maeve Kelly
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:35:00 - [193]

Which is why I said to help CCP resolve problems by giving CONSTRUCTIVE criticism instead of just ranting and raging. If you can't get it to load on your Mac, what OS are you running? What hardware do you have? They can't test/resolve problems on systems unless they know what they are.

Maybe even posting that information, someone here on the forums who is a computer wiz may be able to help you with configs or suggestions that could get you up and running....

Be part of the solution, not part of the problem....

xena zena
The Money Shot Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:37:00 - [194]

Without bothering to read all the replies, I think it's quite simple. This patch represents a MASSIVE investment in money that CCP has put into making this walking-in-stations. All of which has basically zero effect to the core heart of what eve is. Eve isn't about pretty avatars, clothes and monocles, it's about blasting the ape crap out of other people and crapping on their grave. This entire patch is just a huge waste of money. It's not adding a single thing or fixing what should be fixed. Next expansion is going to be even more of the same, useless features.

There are some serious core problems with eve (*cough* 0.0 *cough*) that HAVE to be addressed faster than they seem to be willing to do. Personally I don't see EVE being a competitive IP in the gaming market if they keep neglecting fixing core problems with the game.

As someone who has played this game for YEARS, to be honest, I haven't seen a single expansion in the past couple years that actually improves the game. We got wormholes, a big flop, we got factional warfare, a big flop, we got incursions, another flop, the list goes on... and heres yet another expansion, another huge waste of money.

Then again we also have good ol' DUST, another colossal waste of money. I'd be really surprised if they even break even on that game for development costs.

I think it really boils down to how long you've been playing eve. I can almost bet that the vast majority of people that are ****ED have been playing >4 years, whereas the vast majority of defenders and people who can't see whats wrong with this as being relativity new players <2 years.

I just hope someone at CCP gets their head out of their ass and steers the company back on it's original path before it's too late and they wreck.

Posted - 2011.06.22 16:46:00 - [195]

Originally by: Maeve Kelly
Which is why I said to help CCP resolve problems by giving CONSTRUCTIVE criticism instead of just ranting and raging.
Time for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism ended when they decided to deploy it on live server.

Posted - 2011.06.22 16:48:00 - [196]

Originally by: Fredfredbug4
Does it ruin EVE gameplay?

Graphics are borked
badly implemented features
no more spinning
hurts dual boxing, (without disabling station environment)
walking takes a long time
Walking in stations. yeah right its EVE: WiR (Walking in Room)
Dont put out a feature untill its complete. (atleast to a degree it adds something)
Overpriced Expensive Pointless Items
The CQ experiance is very bad and feels clumsy and slow
Poorly animated characters

on the otherhand, nice turrets.
It Has Potential but its far from ready and it should be possible to opt out and have ship spinning back the experience is FAR better.

Ill still play but CCP are a useless company for making so many bad mistakes, they are lucky they have no real competetors.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:08:00 - [197]

Originally by: Malcanis
I dont hate Incarna; it contains several small fixes that I appreciate and, assuming the "undock and lose your implants" bug is fixed, doesn't make anything worse for me.

I'm just hugely disappointed by it is all. 2 years of resource starvation for the main game in order to get one room I can't leave, with different links to a few station services to occupy me, is underwhelming to say the least.

Thank God for Team BFF and Team Gridlock. One wonders what they might have achieved with even 10% of the resources poured into Walking In Prison?

^^ That. They could have remodeled the Naglfar to add the 3rd turret with 10% of the effort they spent modeling the lip on my avatar. And yet balancing the Naglfar has been on hold because art assets are apparently hard.

Millstone Industries
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:10:00 - [198]

Originally by: Liang Nuren

And yet balancing the Naglfar has been on hold because art assets are apparently hard.

Well, that's only for ships. New clothes are scheduled for release about once a week. I guess the joke is on us. Laughing

Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:04:00 - [199]

They told us: Want new and better clothes? We don't have enough resorces. Pay for them to get them.
Ok, following your logic, CCP: Please, add remade ship models of old ships to the item mall - people will buy them for sure.

I think nobody will give us back our old docking system, because it'll make all that work made by CCP to be wasted.

As a person who watched all fanfest stream: i'm forseeing SP vouchers and SP remap vouchers appearing at item mall.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:36:00 - [200]

Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 22/06/2011 19:47:48
Originally by: Khira Kitamatsu
First - CCP is, you know, rolling out more to Incarna over the next few months. They stated this was merely the first of many parts of this expansion. So you, nor I, or anyone can claim to be in the know as to what CCP has in store for EVE.

You, too, will soon learn that what CCP say they'll do and what actually happens rarely ever adds up. There's no point in arguing any further. You just stick around and watch. At some point in future you will look back and think to yourself "Damnit... he was right after all.".

As for your "alienating your core player base", what aspects of the current game play did they change? Right now they have change very little as to how the game plays.

If you're amongst those who can't run CQ because of hardware limitations or whatever you're going to loose functionality down to the point where you can't even tell what ship you've got active anymore. Many UI elements that were given with the hangar view are now either gone completely or slower to access.

In terms of actual gameplay CQ offers nothing to whomever is playing the game for more than a few days. It takes away features we've gotten used to and appreciate because they were better and faster than what the "expansion" brings.

The point of an "expansion" is to expand on what we have, not take it away just to replace it with something that might look better (which is entirely subjective btw) without actually adding value.

In fact they stated that they will be changing things in the future(as soon as this December - they stated they all ready have people looking at Bounty system, Sov system, and many other O.O aspects of EVE) - so your argument falls on its face right there.

See above. I don't care what they say they'll do because they've broken promises many times over. I mean just look at Incarna. They announced "Captain's Quarters" and actually implemented 1/4th of it. There's three CQs missing if you haven't noticed?

In fact your whole spiel is bad - you still play EVE despite all that you claim is wrong with it. If you really felt the way you do, you'd have quit long ago. If CCP is such a bad game company - put your money where your mouth is and unsubscribe - today. Simple as that.

Look... I'm criticising what CCP do because in a sense this game's been part of my life since just over eight years and I wanna see it succeed. I've probably been lurking these forums before you even knew this game existed. Don't you tell me you know **** all about how I feel. I feel great. I seen people like you come and go, repeatedly. And I will probably still be here long after your ass left.

Bklyn 1
Posted - 2011.06.22 19:53:00 - [201]

To all you people saying 'don't be cheap, buy a new computer' I ask, do you really think people should buy a new computer just to play a video game? If they had a computer which was sufficient to play the game, they should just upgrade it at the whim of a developer? Do you think they will do this when there is no perceived improvement in the gameplay itself? Sure, opinions may vary, but personally, I'm disappointed and would not buy a new computer for this. I don't think it is reasonable to expect people to do so, even if the expansion were universally considered awesome.

Jenshae Chiroptera
Posted - 2011.06.22 20:28:00 - [202]

Originally by: Bklyn 1
To all you people saying 'don't be cheap, buy a new computer' I ask, do you really think people should buy a new computer just to play a video game?

There is also no such thing as a recession or people turning to games for a cheap source of entertainment.

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.22 20:31:00 - [203]

I have to make an apology.

I was wrong about Incarna.

I recently said that it would only take me ten minutes to see all of the new content.

This was wrong.

I did it in two.

Arkhai Exo
Posted - 2011.06.22 20:36:00 - [204]

I like Incarna and I like seeing my character in something other than a static portrait or a cookie cutter ship.

I don't like Incarna being forced on the people who don't want it, and though I have little interest in microtransaction clothes, I'm disappointed that a well respected company like CCP would charge customers the kind of prices you'd expect from a terrible F2P game.

Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.22 20:42:00 - [205]

Make Incarna optional this whole station and new currency is just plain bull****

Yann Xonogoth
Posted - 2011.06.22 20:42:00 - [206]

"Some people" hate Incarna.
And because they hate it, they are the most vocal in these boards.
But the majority likes it, or at least has no negative opinion.
It's my case.
CCP brought us an option. Use it, or leave it, but it wont change you gaming experience if you do not wish to use it.

Amar Azaph
Posted - 2011.06.22 20:47:00 - [207]

Originally by: Fredfredbug4
I'm just curious. It seems rather blind to me. What's the logic behind all of this?

Does it ruin EVE gameplay? Nope, all Incarna is right now is just standing in a room. How does this ruin gameplay?

Does it ruin EVE lore? Nope, although it is rather unrealistic how pod pilots can get in and out of their pods without any downtime, they still get in and out of their pods, not as much as Incarna makes it look like but alas they still do. There are even larger plotholes. Such as the lack of a ship crew or the fact people can fly Caldari ships in the Gallente navy.

Does it make EVE less available to people? In a way, yes. Although the toll on graphics really isn't that bad. I'm running a old 2006 computer, not designed for gaming, with no hardware upgrades and I run Incarna just fine. So no ****, of course your 2004 dinosaur isn't going to work well. But what about people with internet restrictions? Well frankly that is not CCPs fault. Blame your ISP.

Could someone please explain the logic in the most unbiased way possible. All the people against Incarna look like to me are just grizzled vets who don't want the game to change in any way.

This has to be a troll, otherwise, you must have missed the dozens of threads all over the forums about Incarna. I would respectfully suggest reading the threads, this would bring you up to speed quickly and save you having to make another thread.

Leah Solo
Posted - 2011.06.22 21:00:00 - [208]

I currently hate it cuz my NEW amd quad CPU screams for dear life whenever I load the CQ. My ati hd 6950 is fine, and goes only a few degrees up in temp.. Oh, and lighting is attrocious.

On the other hand turrets are fab..though maybe small t2 ac's could've been made a bit more badass..

So if CCP optimizes it soon, I'm gonna enjoy it even. Afterall this is a first step of a huge release, so I'm willing to cut some slack. ugh

Posted - 2011.06.23 03:45:00 - [209]

Ok. Does it ruin EvE gameplay? Yes. Let's say your 0.0 system is being attacked by a huge spike of reds. And let's say you're in a noctis. You're going to dock up and jump back out in your dps/tackle boat. Incursion: 45 seconds. Incarna: 3-10 minutes due to load times...there is nothing in the CQ that should be that gpu/cpu/hard drive intensive.

Just one example of how uberbloated this update is.

Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:09:00 - [210]

Originally by: Myra2007

Well, that's only for ships. New clothes are scheduled for release about once a week. I guess the joke is on us. Laughing

Re-phrase that, mate:

New clothes, that you can only buy with RL money, unlike ships* [...]

* And does anyone seriously believe that AUR-only ships that confer in-game advantages aren't far behind? Do they, seriously? Why, just because those lying bags of c**t at CCP say so? "More gold (either in-game or RL)= I win" is what the WoW crowd understands, is used to, and wants. The WoW-crowd is whom CCP is so cravenly pandering to. Ergo sum, CCP will give that crowd what they want, sooner or later, and probably sooner than later.


I love EVE. I absolutely love EVE, everything about it, warts and all, everything I've learned and experienced since I first hopped on a trial near then end of Empyrean Age. the fact that I can still learn and experience new things every time I log on after all this time...It is so because EVE is what it is. Or, what it was, now.

Which is why I cannot dishonour this thing I love by being anything less than coldly, objectively rational here:

EVE is finished.

Just because you fit a DCU II to a battleship doesn't mean you're not in any less trouble when that fleet that just dropped on you gets you into structure. Well, the WoW/generic MMO crowd is that fleet, and it would seem that CCP has a habit of selling out blues to the enemy when there's profit in it.

I feel like I'm watching a good friend die, for f**k's sake.

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