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blankseplocked So Incarna just blew my pc up . . .
 
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Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 13:13:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Kane VanKeio
I run a highend i7 pc.
As soon as I launch Eve, I hear my fans go nuts. Before patch I could run 3-4clients and everything was fine, but now something is not right.
Thought I got some virus first that ate memory, but now I start believing that this latest patch is ****ed up.

I tried AoC at launch and I remember their memory leak problem that made clients crash and freezelag like hell.
I am almost 100% sure CCP has some issue like that now, else people would not gotten this problem, even if they have an old or new pc.


EVE has had problems with memory leaks before, during Dominion i think it was. If your computer didn't have uber super duper processing power undocking from stations was a nightmare, as was warping, using jump-gates, and pretty much everything.

The short-term solution was: turn down your graphics

The long term solution was: next patch fixed it \o/

If this is a memory leak, the same solutions should apply.

caldar ian
Final Destination.
Posted - 2011.06.22 13:32:00 - [32]
 

again my pc was over the minimum spec yet it fried it.

Motherboard:
CPU Type DualCore AMD Athlon 64 X2, 3000 MHz (15 x 200) 6000+

NF520T ASUS Motherboard Chipset nVIDIA nForce 6100-4xx, AMD Hammer

Video Adapter ATI Radeon hd5700

4gb RAM

windows 7 x64

so you can try to make fun as much as you like, the fact is Incarna killed my machine


Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 13:36:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Kagumichan on 22/06/2011 13:38:12
Maybe we can get to the bottom of the problem...

How high did you have the graphics set?

How long did you spend wandering around in the captain's quarters?

Is your computer on a carpeted floor, against a wall, inside an enclosed space, near a t.v, monitor, radiator or other heat source?

How many clients were you running at the time?

How long had your computer been on before loading Incarna?

Does your computer have the necessary power supply to handle utilising it's maximum output for prolonged periods of stress on the hardware?

Does all of your RAM operate at the same speed and what version of RAM is it? (e.g/ DDR2, DDR3 etc.)

With these answered we may be able to work out what happened.

caldar ian
Final Destination.
Posted - 2011.06.22 13:45:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Kagumichan
Edited by: Kagumichan on 22/06/2011 13:38:12
Maybe we can get to the bottom of the problem...

How high did you have the graphics set?

How long did you spend wandering around in the captain's quarters?

Is your computer on a carpeted floor, against a wall, inside an enclosed space, near a t.v, monitor, radiator or other heat source?

How many clients were you running at the time?

How long had your computer been on before loading Incarna?

Does your computer have the necessary power supply to handle utilising it's maximum output for prolonged periods of stress on the hardware?

Does all of your RAM operate at the same speed and what version of RAM is it? (e.g/ DDR2, DDR3 etc.)

With these answered we may be able to work out what happened.


1. Ati graphics always set to performance
2. 30 mins
3. pc on a desk with plenty of room around for air flow
4. 2 clients
5. all day, my pc is never off, it dosnt need to be (monitor goes into standby after 15 mins)
6. yes 750w psu
7. 4x 1gb crucial ddr2

.....

Kahndrian Vochre
Posted - 2011.06.22 13:55:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Kahndrian Vochre on 22/06/2011 14:06:27
Although my system hasn't gotten to the 'blow up' stage yet it is running hot enough to fry an egg on the CPU. I can run any current Gen game on max settings at about 70C-75C... Incarna pushes this to almost 90C!(Max rating for my CPU). I've ran my system many times in the past at max load without any heat issues(Hottest it's gotten is around 80C at max load). Something is definitely amiss with this update.

Quri
Gallente
Bright Side Corp
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:14:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: caldar ian
press esc and disable " station enviroment "


Saved my day, thx!

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:18:00 - [37]
 

Next couple of questions:

What is the average temperature ratio of your computer whilst it was running on idle?

What was the usual cpu and temperature when running 2 eve clients in the past?

Does all your RAM run at the same mhz or are they different?

The reason I emphasise on the RAM is because I blew out a motherboard and processer, along with 3gb of RAM from running EVE in the past because it was 1 stick of 1gb DDR2 running at 400 mhz and 1 stick of 2gb DDR2 running at 800mhz, because of fluctuation in the RAM speed with the load the whole thing fried as it was trying to operate things at speeds that one RAM stick couldn't handle.

Happy squid
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:25:00 - [38]
 

It seems to be a lot of people are having issues with their PC's getting well overheated and then imploding..

I don't know why but i ain't got this issue at all, the only problem i got is the fact that my CPU gets cranked up like hell when im using the CQ, but my GPU stays the same o_o

Stargate CloneBay
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:26:00 - [39]
 

I, also have a relatively new cpu build. This is a re-post from a different thread, figured i would put it in the right place.

i7 950 3.07
GeForce 460 1 GB
8 GB DDR3 1600 RAM
Win 7 64bit
SSD

I can run every other game at top graphics and not produce the amount heat that incarna gives off on only a single instance of the CQ. Now, im not a graphic designer/coder but i have seen instances where the textures(or UI) get constantly redrawn causing huge amounts of heat to be produced by a GPU. The concern about walking away from my computer while docked in a station, thus causing my GPU to run very hot for extended periods of time, is not something i am very amused by.

The ΔT from 1 client to 2 clients is actually marginal, though.

DXDiags / logserver files available if they would help.

Illadelph Justice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:33:00 - [40]
 

Crossposting this from another thread because I want to be part of the threadnaught.

For real. I have a cooled 8800gt that has never once overheated until last night. Got two BSOD's before stripping out some noncritical hardware and rearranging my PC's innards AND installing another fan under the gfx card. That was all good, but I still have to keep the side panel open to keep the card cool enough.

SH*T IS CRAZY

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:36:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Kagumichan on 22/06/2011 14:39:06
I'm also suffering from a heavy temperature problem which is why I'm hoping we can all try and work it out. The problem I'm having though isn't with the GPU, it's the CPU, my computer core is designed to shut off at 100 degrees and it does exactly that if i leave the character detail graphics on high and leave CQ on for 10-15 minutes. However turning the detail to med dropped it down to around 85-90 degrees which is damned hot, but not enough to push it into crashing, still, i wouldn't particularly like to leave it like that for a long time. This would tell me that the problem isn't the graphics itself that is causing the problem, it's is a problem with processing the graphics. Our computers are able to SHOW the graphics, but it has to push hard to continually render it at any given frame rate.

Eve has had this problem before with Dominion though because of texture rendering, but back then it was on spaceships, in space. The problem never arose whilst in a station looking at the ship.

Until we work out a long-term solution though, I think the safest thing to do would be to either uncheck the 'load station interior' box in the graphics menu, or turn all character rendering graphics options to the lowest possible.

These graphics options are:

Shadow Detail - Disabled
Physically Simulated Cloth And Hair - Unchecked
Low Quality Characters - Checked
Character Detail - Low
Station Rendering - Low

Once those changes have been selected, exit the menu and then restart your client, upon loading it back up again you may see a significant improvement in computer processing, and a significant drop in GPU/CPU temperature (though at the same time, it'll look pretty gnarly to look at).

Another possible eventuality, although unlikely, could simply be that the Carbon render system is simply too advanced for current day home computers to utilise efficiently. Seeing as CCP must have quite amazing computers in order to generate the engine in the first place, it would have to be tested on lower-end computers of many different varieties in order to to come to a final evaluation of how it would react to general public use. Given how many varieties of home computer builds that are available to the general public, issues are almost guaranteed to arise with some people. However, THIS many people does seem a little too suspicious for it to simply be a minority problem with certain hardware.

caldar ian
Final Destination.
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:37:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Kagumichan
Next couple of questions:

What is the average temperature ratio of your computer whilst it was running on idle?

What was the usual cpu and temperature when running 2 eve clients in the past?

Does all your RAM run at the same mhz or are they different?

The reason I emphasise on the RAM is because I blew out a motherboard and processer, along with 3gb of RAM from running EVE in the past because it was 1 stick of 1gb DDR2 running at 400 mhz and 1 stick of 2gb DDR2 running at 800mhz, because of fluctuation in the RAM speed with the load the whole thing fried as it was trying to operate things at speeds that one RAM stick couldn't handle.


Thanks for trying to help,
I do not remember the temps of my cores off the top of my head, they were never high even under load.
All of my RAM ran at the same speed and was the same make (ie crucial ram).
I do have everest logs on my hdd but that is no good while the motherboard and cpu wont work Wink

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:44:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: caldar ian
Originally by: Kagumichan
Next couple of questions:

What is the average temperature ratio of your computer whilst it was running on idle?

What was the usual cpu and temperature when running 2 eve clients in the past?

Does all your RAM run at the same mhz or are they different?

The reason I emphasise on the RAM is because I blew out a motherboard and processer, along with 3gb of RAM from running EVE in the past because it was 1 stick of 1gb DDR2 running at 400 mhz and 1 stick of 2gb DDR2 running at 800mhz, because of fluctuation in the RAM speed with the load the whole thing fried as it was trying to operate things at speeds that one RAM stick couldn't handle.


Thanks for trying to help,
I do not remember the temps of my cores off the top of my head, they were never high even under load.
All of my RAM ran at the same speed and was the same make (ie crucial ram).
I do have everest logs on my hdd but that is no good while the motherboard and cpu wont work Wink


The only thing I can think of that could have caused the issue would be that your power supply was pushed too far trying to operate your entire motherboard, sound, graphics, harddrive and RAM all at once at maximum power output from all of them (something we all seem to be encountering), the result would probably be a power surge sent through your computer shorting out most if not all of the things that it was running at the time.

At the moment it seems like the most logical answer.

IGNATIUS HOOD
Amarr
Zephyr Corp
V.A.S.T.
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:47:00 - [44]
 

I really hope they don't take away the ability to disable CQ/WIS because IMO its utterly useless and it looks like crap on my laptop... It kinda works, but not very well and everything is grainy and the animations for avvy movement are stilted jittery, non responsive and bad... It needs to be optimized and cleaned up alot... This is really disappointing becuase its becoming a focus of alot of angst and frustration and adds pretty much nothing to the game...

CCP, Please don't force us to use this... Please... It sucks...Neutral

I'm sure it has its place for some users, but most of us seem to not appreciate the effort. Let us contineu to ignore it...

Debbie DoesDallas
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:51:00 - [45]
 

Kagu is dead on and the easiest way to work around what is likely some memory leaks in the CQ is to disable station loading in your graphics menu.

See how things run. If its still running hot, hitching or crashing, turn down graphics settings to the minimum level.

CCP will get this stuff fixed but trolling through all that new code will take a bit of time.

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:55:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Kagumichan on 22/06/2011 14:56:11
Originally by: IGNATIUS HOOD
I really hope they don't take away the ability to disable CQ/WIS because IMO its utterly useless and it looks like crap on my laptop... It kinda works, but not very well and everything is grainy and the animations for avvy movement are stilted jittery, non responsive and bad... It needs to be optimized and cleaned up alot... This is really disappointing becuase its becoming a focus of alot of angst and frustration and adds pretty much nothing to the game...

CCP, Please don't force us to use this... Please... It sucks...Neutral

I'm sure it has its place for some users, but most of us seem to not appreciate the effort. Let us contineu to ignore it...



A thought did pop into my head whilst dilligently speeding into town to fetch my next couple of days supply of energy drink, and it was regarding the amount of people who have been posting issues with their laptops.

Somehow I'd completely forgotten beforehand, but I remembered, laptops were never really invented for heavy gaming use, they were designed to be a sort of 'portable office' so that people could do their work on the go. Though there are some laptops designed for gaming, such as Alienware ones (like the one shown by CCP Soundwave during AT9), most were never really designed to give a heavy output of graphics and fast processing. The case that computers are having big problems with Incarna would only double the chance of the issue coming up on a laptop, as it's parts are smaller, more fragile, and more susceptible to heat (I used to play Warcraft through a laptop on my lap and got burn marks from it once... worked great as an iron though to get rid of those unsightly creases).

If anyone here does have a laptop that is able to run Incarna at an acceptable level without the likelihood of it imploding or melting into moon goo, could you please let us know what your system stats are so we can try to work out an average idea of what kind of requirements a laptop needs to run Incarna?

Illadelph Justice
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:58:00 - [47]
 

Eve has always been CPU heavy and this discussion now has me wondering if it was my cpu and not my gpu that was overheating like that. Will investigate further

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:02:00 - [48]
 

GPU = Graphical Processing Unit

CPU = Central Processing Unit

If a graphics card has enough RAM built into it it will attempt to do all the graphical rendering itself whilst the computer does the processing and all the other cool stuff.

If the graphics card does not have the required RAM, or that RAM is already being used by something else, the computer will do it instead.

Well, I 'think' that's how it works anyways. If it is, it answers why some of us have GPU problems, and others have CPU problems.

Haraldhardrade
Amarr
Pax Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:34:00 - [49]
 

I got a fairly fast computer with a GTX 570. Whenever I dock I hear my fans fire up like crazy. Undock and they slow down again.

caldar ian
Final Destination.
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:51:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: caldar ian on 22/06/2011 15:56:34

I am hoping my card is ok, for when I can afford to replace my cpu and motherboard Confused

my cpu and motherboard are both dead, I am still waiting for a reply to my petition, or indeed this thread, but I do understand they will be busy.

before my pc went bang, i was enjoying the station lol, ironic really as I didnt think I would be.

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 15:52:00 - [51]
 

Until an official answer is given the only current possibility I can think of, looking at all the different issues that all happen within the CQ, is that the Carbon rendering engine that creates your character and the Captain's Quarters, as well as the character customiser, either has a serious memory leak problem, or the Carbon engine itself is simply too great a load on computers that aren't top-of-the-range up-to-date super computers. From what it appears Carbon requires a LOT of RAM to operate, and by a lot I'm talking crazy amounts.

I'm using a 2gb DDR2 RAM stick but my VRAM, which is kind of like 'fake' RAM on your harddrive, is set to 50gb, essentially allowing the game to put it's entirity into my computers random access memory and causing it not to work so hard, which is why it's burning, but it's not melting.

Another post I saw from another thread had 6gb RAM and wasn't experiencing huge problems except from more processer usage. Others with 4gb (or maybe more, or less) may not have a huge amount of VRAM on their system and so Carbon is simply pushing the computer to it's brink, then either making it crash, or turning it into bacon.

However another thing I noticed is people running Windows 7 seem to be experiencing issues more frequently than those running Windows XP, though XP users are also getting problems, and so far I haven't seen anything from anyone using Windows Vista (could it be that windows vista is actually GOOD at doing something that other windows aren't? Shocked).

Pondering on the inner workings of Carbon, a possibility in the way it operates could be that every single frame it renders is then processed and then put through some kind of post-process to give it it's huge amount of detail, before being shown on the screen, this entire process from start to finish would be done within an eye-blink, as it would be doing this 30 times every second in order to create a standard frame-rate.

Alternatively it could be that Carbon uses a lot of layer-upon-layer texturing to give it's detail, as this would enable it to seperately shade each texture to make shadows and lights look more realistic, a character could have 100 layers on the face alone just to give a smooth and believable shadow effect along with the small knicks and creases on the characters facial structure. A believable theory given how players were able to construct character faces in whatever way they chose, since the faces alone were created using millions of polygons.

This would generate a lot of processing requirement which would push a computer VERY hard to keep up with how much work it'd have to do to make the frame-rate operate at a usable speed.

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:38:00 - [52]
 

After talking with a friend of mine who has an extremely powerfull gaming pc, it's fairly safe to deduce that the ultimate problem is indeed with hardware and/or RAM.

So far he hasn't encountered any problems with Incarna at all, not surprising since his computer specs are:

Windows 7 x64
Intel Quad Core 2.8 ghz
Geforce 460gtx
8gb DDR3 RAM
800w Power Supply
(As far as I can remember them anyhow)

8gb of quick RAM would probably more than compensate for the load Incarna puts on a computer.

If this is indeed the case then I can offer this possible solution (but only for Windows XP as I don't know the desktop of Windows 7):

Go to 'Start > Control Panel > System > Advanced Tab > Click 'Settings' in the Performance area > Advanced Tab > Click Change in the Virtual Memory area > Click on the drive you have windows installed on (Your system drive, usually C:) > Click the Custom Size Button > Type '4094' into the Initial Size (MB) box > Type '10000' in the Maximum Size (MB) box > Click 'Set' > Click ok untill you get back to your desktop > Restart your computer.

Once your computer has rebooted, your computer will automatically use from 4gb to (almost) 10gb of your system drives harddrive space as if it were RAM, allowing Incarna to process information more adequately and thus, decrease hardware stress and high temperatures.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:42:00 - [53]
 

Even when a software like the EVE client uses the maximum processing power your CPU and GPU provides, then there is still a safety margin that should stop the system from overheating. Except of course the safety margin was removed by overclocking the system, or some simple hardware failures like dust on your graphic card or your fan.

soaponacola
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:44:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: soaponacola on 22/06/2011 16:46:12
ok to add to this thread moving from this one

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1534046&page=1

There has got to be something else going on. Ive been messing around most of today to see what works best.

Im running
Dual core running at 2.6
Ati 5870 1 gig of ram
4 gig Crucial RAM
Nvidia 680sli
Win 7 pro 64

Ram usage is at a pretty constand 1gig
processor is running at 75-85% load
GPU is running at 30% load

CPU temp 52c
GPU temp 54c
---------

I have since added a 10" case fan which has dropped the CPU temp down to 43" meaning probably a general airflow issue.

The GPU temp I resolved by going into CCC and overriding the fan speed and putting it at 50%. that has brought it down to 44c

In station it runs at 35-45 FPS.
Turning off the sound in game for some reason gained another 10FPS

I have tried all graphics settings including OC the gfx card however the load on the card NEVER goes above 30-35%.

I cant work out for the life of my why the CPU is being taxed as much as it is and yet there is hardly any load on the GFX card

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:54:00 - [55]
 

I'm not too sure, I just played around with the solution I posted above and have now dropped my cores average temperature to 60 degrees instead of the 90 degrees it was pushing before, the CPU is still being taxed but isn't causing huge temperature problems.

There could be some other issue, but at the moment I'm fairly convinced it has something to do with processing and RAM.

Also yes lots of hardware and software has some kind of safety margin to prevent overheat, however for example, some third party companies remove these safety margins when modifying original products to sell in order to get more power out of them (companies such as Zotac, who modify Nvidia Geforce cards to make them 'better'). It's nowadays quite hard to find an original Nvidia or ATI card, most of them are modified 3rd party ones.

LoneEcho
Gallente
Paragon Fury
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:39:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: LoneEcho on 22/06/2011 17:39:50
I too am having my GPU go on fire.

The second I go in CQ, my GPU jumps to 100% usage and my temp on GPU hits 99C. I had to optimize for performance and disable CQ to be able to be docked without having my GPU sound like a jet plane taking off

i7 950
evga 460gtx EE
evga x58 FTW3 mobo
6GB 1600 ram.. Soon to be 12GB.
850watt PSU.
120mm fan on the side, 2 other which I believe are 80mm on the back and 1 on the top of my pc. Lots of airflow.

Kagumichan
Degenerate Corp
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:50:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: LoneEcho
Edited by: LoneEcho on 22/06/2011 17:39:50
I too am having my GPU go on fire.

The second I go in CQ, my GPU jumps to 100% usage and my temp on GPU hits 99C. I had to optimize for performance and disable CQ to be able to be docked without having my GPU sound like a jet plane taking off

i7 950
evga 460gtx EE
evga x58 FTW3 mobo
6GB 1600 ram.. Soon to be 12GB.
850watt PSU.
120mm fan on the side, 2 other which I believe are 80mm on the back and 1 on the top of my pc. Lots of airflow.


Try clearing your computer case and processer fan/heatsink of any dust, if that does not work, try the possible solution mentioned earlier in the thread.

Jonaaz Dsz
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:02:00 - [58]
 

Yeah, I'm looking at something in the line of OP. 2 Accounts docked and I'm doing some 1-5 FPS, undock 1 and I go to about 15-20 FPS. I wouldn't dare logging on the 3rd account.

There is definitely room for improvement.

Kougy
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:39:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Kougy on 22/06/2011 19:57:06
Edited by: Kougy on 22/06/2011 18:45:19
**Edited for misinformation**

EvE Incarna employs brand new technology with real-time ray traces and light reflective surfaces (radiosity), developed in concert with MIT. While it might look SIMILAR to modern games, it isn't in the fact that textures aren't pre-baked (to seem like they have shadow etc). They're all shaded real time.

This is likely the reason you blew your processor, settings were too high and poof.

For your NEXT processor and motherboard, consider an Asus x58 chipset with a intel i7 950 (Or i5 2500k which has better overclock capability, takes less power, and is the newest i5, but is a bit more expensive), best bang for the buck. For cooling, invest in a Corsair H70 (or H50/ H60), it is a maintenance-free localized water cooling system, and it works WONDERFULLY!!! (Localized means that it only cools the CPU, requires no change of fluid or filters, installs like a regular CPU cooler).

The only overheating you will have to be concerned with is your video cards, but that's not even too much of a problem.

Rebel Boss
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:49:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Rebel Boss
my sys is burned by the smell, phenom9500ati all asus, blewup in incarna i am still investigating it may be a software bug that heat the cpu and thos that dont have good cooling may get cooked...

-------------------------
First of all i cannot find my other post of the same issue... I know i am such a noob... New on this forums...

Now lets talk some serious bussines... As i wrote in the other post like in this one i finaly investigated the problem with my PC, the truth is my powersource had a meltdown, reasons? well i found all kind of species in my pc and they were not amar, caldari, jove... All kind of new alien life forms were in my system :D, all temps cpu, gpu, mb, hdds, where over 60degree celtious for more than 2 months, by my logs, and the drop that broke the camel was that my cooler of my power source was jamed :D... now i buyd a new decent source and all are back to normal like the first day... So for my was probably a coincidence like i stated :P keep up the good work and be xenofob with your system cuz if not you all will be colonized :D CYA


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