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Gus Machado
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:33:00 - [781]

sentry drones not only do not show their destructive power as per patch notes but they also do no damage to bs now.......gj guys.

well so much for ratting maybe i can mine now:(

Ernar Astrandur
Oris Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:36:00 - [782]

Well CQ looks interesting, but it should NOT be the default whenever you enter a station! Please, please let us choose whether we want to leave our Pod and enter CQ or just stay in the Pod and quickly change ships or load cargo.

I like the new turrets though! However their icons could be a bit clearer...

Tron Flux
Midnite Madness
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:54:00 - [783]

I guess none of the professional software developers raging on this thread have ever had anything go wrong in a major application overhaul. Good for you. You skills must be far higher than mine and ccp's as well. I bow to your superiority.

The database applications I work on can be badly broken just by a minor update to MySQL that isn't supposed to break anything. Let alone major updates to UI design and features.

Frankly, I'm impressed that Incarna works at all and it didn't take a week to deploy. I'm also not surprised that it's not perfect yet. There's a pretty amazing variety of system combinations floating around out there, and ccp has kind o the same problem that Microsoft has in testing. There's no way to test them all, so you do what you can and hope that users get on the test server and try it.

Anyway, given all the stuff I've been reading on the dev blogs, there has been a LOT goin on under the hood in the last few months, and it's just a part of the process that some kinks are going to have to be ironed out. This is version 1.0. Stay calm, wait for a patch. Things will get better.

Have a friend who's not having issues log in and keep your skills training. The one thing I will say is that I think I makes sense from a gameplay point of view to go to hangar first and then exit pod/ship to go to cq. But the problem with rolling out software that way is that if it's optional, it won't be widely adopted--and therefore won't be tested, bugs won't be found, and things will never improve. It's one of the worst ways of doing things, but it's still the best way to do it.

I like what this is leading up to. I'm excited about maybe running a strip club or a bar or maybe an orchestra for a while when I get tired of missioning or mining or whatever. I also like that the devs have said that after incarna is completed, there is going to be a strong internal focus on all the little things that need fixing.

So for now, I'd say good job just keeping it mostly up and running with all the changes of the last few months. A little extra downtime here and there never hurt my feelings. You can always go camping or fishing or go to a concert or even play a concert or whatever else it is that humans do when not glued to a monitor.


~Tron Flux

Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:56:00 - [784]

During yesterday while at work i followed some of the posts in the forums regarding Incarna and got really worried.... is the update really that bad?

So i feared the worst when i came home and downloaded the update and was ready for a real dissapointment.

But what happened? Downloaded the patch, entered the game and guess what? Everything worked smooth as silk and much better than what i expected from the comments in here. One of the reasons i was worried is that my pc is old and i was pretty sure that i would get problems. But none at all.

Of course there is stuff that needs polish but i experienced nothing that ruined the immersion or experience of the game.

CQ was cool and i had no problems there. They need to work a bit with how the character looks compared to how i made the in the crator and the light settings in CQ But thats just polish.

Also noticed a couple of other issues, but they where small and will be posted in the issues thread.

Prices at nobel store needs to be looked at tho. No way i will buy anything there as it is now.

Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:59:00 - [785]

1) CQ and WIS? Great direction I think, but so far just an annoyance! This KILLS immersion. A captain doesnt have to leave his ship just to drop off some cargo! It should be: Go to old station environment when docked, go to CQ when you select "leave ship". This is a logical progression and the best of both worlds. I wouldnt even mind if logging in started you at the bed!

I recieved a message from GM Panzer regarding this:

With the release of Incarna, Captain's Quarters are now an integral part of the game. We realize not everyone is in agreement with the design focus, but we are confident that this is an important step in expanding the EVE universe in a meaningful and fun way. There are no immediate plans to re-enable the old station view, but of course we take the feedback from our customers seriously and furthermore, some of the functionality that the old hangar view had that has been removed, may be added again at some point. Keep in mind that this is only the first iteration of Captain's Quarters.

Sounds like they are trying to forcefeed it to us.

2) NEX is outrageous. Selling hats? I'd rather buy one for TF2 if I ever were to do such a thing. Seems like it would have more use and those hats are cheaper!

Revelation of Wrath
Posted - 2011.06.23 07:10:00 - [786]

Originally by: Hieder

Sounds like they are trying to forcefeed it to us.

When a lot of the people posting here are acting like children, can you blame them?

Kami - Kaze
Posted - 2011.06.23 07:11:00 - [787]



Posted - 2011.06.23 07:12:00 - [788]

No problems with the patch, although not a high end computer.

I have a slight impression that it now works better than before Shocked

Although CQ is very nice to watch and play with, for say 5 minutes, that's it. Nothing more.
Seen it, played with it, turned it off. Nothing really added to the gameplay (Personal opinion of course).

Also the cut-off of older computers. It certainly doesn't affect 7 or 8 years tech as CCP states but even more recent ones.
Consider this scenario: you have to be away from your main computer for say 10-15 days and your alternate, is either a laptop or an older one. Either you'll have to put a long, but useless skill for training, or maybe you are so new in the game that don't have such a long skill.

And there is PI to consider. I for example use day cycle. OK I can stretch it more if a long absence is near, but that's it. Days will be left idle and ISK will be lost Smile (capitalistic view I know).

One solution I can think of is "transfering rights". I mean being able to access and modify your market orders, PI, skills from EVEGate through a transfering mechanism that you have the right to use every X days. And to avoid any possible exploits the whole time that this "tranfering" is active you will not be able to login through the client.

I hope that CCP is "really" considering players feedback.

Revelation of Wrath
Posted - 2011.06.23 07:12:00 - [789]

Originally by: Skyreth
Originally by: Hieder

Sounds like they are trying to forcefeed it to us.

When a lot of the people posting here are acting like children, can you blame them?

Originally by: Kami - Kaze


I rest my case.

Callidus Dux
Posted - 2011.06.23 07:42:00 - [790]

Edited by: Callidus Dux on 23/06/2011 08:32:41
One proposal:

Use the current voting system as it is established in EVE (the game) to start wars or whatever. Use this tool to ask ALL your current active customers if they wish to use the current, uncompleted Incarne which does nothing to the player than producing lag and overheating hardware components; OR if they wish the old effective styled hangar.

I do not hate Incarne. I know this is the first step and try. But CCP has to understand, that this current build is problematic in many ways.
Please give us NOT TRANSFERABLE shares and start a vote for this problem. Maybe a bad idea but the best proposal I have to offer now.
Please do not laugh at me.

Best regards
Callidus Dux

*Edit: If you try to force people to love something new, they will hate it. It is not a signal of debility if you respond to your customer as they wish. Do not delete Incarna completely. But try to evolve it, make it better and optimize it the next few days / weeks / years. And in the meantime let the user decide if he want to use a small room and watch TV with all the known issues or if he can use his known familiar, effective hangar to change his ships as quick as possible or only to dump his cargo out to the station and go back to the roid / mission / PvP etc.

Lord Vimuhla
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:13:00 - [791]

Like many of the others here, I agree CQ should be optional. Instead of seeing the ship in the hangar (which used to put everything into context) you have to instead stare at an unchanging door or play what seems to be a inferior and jerky game that has been tacked on like some kind of freakish siamese twin

The new vanity (AUR) concept is ugly as well - every time i look at my wallet i have to look at a big turquoise "0" below my isk which makes me feel like a cheapskate.

YUK hate it. I may well cancel my subscription.

Dennie Fleetfoot
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:29:00 - [792]

For all the people that are accusing us of being whiners, complaining about changes we don't like, afraid of change etc, etc....

1. I'm happy, ney, delighted for you that CQ works splendidly on your 2k gaming rig. Fair play to you.

2. What your failing to grasp, from your electronic ivory PC towers, is that it would seem that Incarna is not working on a huge number of your fellow players set up's.

3. We pay for the same product as you and if it wasn't working you'd be whining too.

4. As we are paying customers of CCP, we pay for the development, wages and costs of CCP. So we are morally and more importantly legally entitled to complain when it goes wrong.

5. When other customers with brand new gaming rigs the equal or even better than yours are saying it's killing their rig, then there is a serious problem with this beta release.

6. There is no 6.

7. Most of us were looking forward to WIS, excited even by the possibilities it would bring. Sadly, it would seem that CCP have bitten more than they chew. After nearly 5 years of development they can't get an Avatar to walk around one room without CPU's melting.

8. Fundamental design choice errors have clearly been made. For example, the fact that CQ uses massively more resources than flying in space but CCP failed to make separate graphic settings for the two environments. My PC with AA off, can happily run space on full settings at 60fps with only 25% CPU usage. CQ is turned on, it shares the same settings as space, I dock and it goes up to 98% CPU, a 20 degree jump in temperature and less than 10 fps. So the only option is to turn it off completely, thereby relegating the hard work that CCP have clearly done on it as pointless.

9. CQ doesn't even work on low settings for me. It took 2 minutes for my avatar to fully render. The first minute was just his hair moving about in a black and white box shaped room. Is this now considered acceptable as gold master standard?

10. It's increasingly obvious to many on the forums, both here and in corps throughout the game as well as in the game itself that CQ wasn't ready for inclusion in Incarna. It's made progress since the test servers we were all invited to try, I grant you that. But for full release on thousands of different PC set ups..... it's nowhere near ready, is clearly still beta and shouldn't have released till Incursion 1.1 or even 1.2. Like I said, if most are having to turn it off, then it was a waste of CCP's time and our money.

I'm currently downloading the full client. I'm hoping that with a fresh install and a few other tweaks on my PC I might get it working better.

But should I doing all that in the first place is all I'm saying. I pay to play EVE, not to get it working. That's what I pay CCP for.

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:39:00 - [793]

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 23/06/2011 08:51:34
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 23/06/2011 08:47:13
Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 23/06/2011 08:39:50
My general feedback is negative one.

Not because of the NEX shop, because honestly, I don't care about it as long as it's not offering direct advantages in game (like ships/blueprints created out of thin air).

But one thing you've managed to kill with this ALPHA release of whatever you want to call it is immersion. Immersion is not that "immersiony" when you have 8 FPS on completely low settings on a machine that runs Stalker or Fear without any problems. Proposing to buy a new hardware or saying that those games have a couple of years under their belts is not an excuse for throwing up a performance eating abomination of a single room with a single avatar that can move in it that manages to drop FPS to 8.

The bottom line is: those 3-4 year old games, like FEAR, look way better and perform smoothly while your unfinished non-optimized product looks like crap on low details and have 8 FPS.

If you are not ready to release an optimized and playable version of any update you make, then please DON'T.

Edit for more:

First we had multiple station interiors for every race. Than your shiny new engine made it better so that we had ONE station interior for each race. Ok, not so bad after all. Now, you've released ONE room that DOESN'T WORK and force the players to turn off the whole environment to be able to play the game.

I don't know if you have ANY clue what you did here. You've FORCED players to tick out the whole expansion you were making and degraded our gaming experience in the process. There is no excuse whatsoever to not optimize the performance of that single room with a single active avatar to look and perform like 3 or 4 year old games do. Or, if you wanted so much to deploy this now, then why the hell didn't you leave the option to use the old hangar view? That way, you'd only exclude a big chunk of your playerbase out of the content brought by this abomination of an "expansion", and NOT degrade the experience for us.

After all this is not an EXPANSION, since the quality was degraded and options got limited. I don't see what's "expanding" here.

Thermoss Devlin
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.23 08:52:00 - [794]

I only hope that CCP really listens to this player feedback becuase if they don't i don't sincerely know if i will keep my accountsactive.

I only have a few things to say:
* Make CQ optional
* Do whatever you want with NEX but please don't put ships or blueprints in it.
* Don't release updates that are not fully tested.

I personally did not have any FPS issues with incarna at all on maxed settings, but i am fully aware of that quite the majority of the EVE players does not have a high end gaming rig. I personally find CQ annoying and something that bugs me becuase I am not familiar with the changes as allways. but this time it is really killing my urge to continue playing.

Posted - 2011.06.23 08:52:00 - [795]

Don't want to look on a rusty door when station environment is turned off. Some of my fine Avatars, they are looking great in the Charcreateer, are turning into frogfaces when i use the new incarna environment. Thx for it.

Posted - 2011.06.23 08:58:00 - [796]

I agree with what some people have already brought up:

The sense of scale with the ships is lost when looking at them from the balcony. The smaller ships are brought up close while the larger ships are kept far away. This should be changed. Either keep all the ships the same distance away from the balcony or have more objects in the hangar for size comparison. Maybe a shadow on the floor of the hangar? Maybe other random ships docked around the hangar? Whatever you do, don't keep it as it is. Please?

Also, I'd love a button or shortcut that will extend/retract my turrets at will. Retracting them to warp then extending them only to warp again seems really redundant.


Posted - 2011.06.23 09:15:00 - [797]

To all quitting eve, can I has your stuff? If so contract me all your stuff. Laughing

Posted - 2011.06.23 09:20:00 - [798]

Edited by: PhallusDei on 23/06/2011 09:23:49
1/ Double account in CQ kills my cpu ( almost 80% ), please make CQ optional and the default like it was before ( the turning ship, not the wallpaper joke where you even cannot see the ship you selected ).
2/ You have to work on how the light reflect on the characters, cause they look ugly at some place of the CQ.
3/ When walking through the balcony the ship should magnify but it does not, the ship is like a poster which moves the same as you. The results is we have no idea how big is the ship compared to others and it looks unphysical.
4/ The new turrets are great though.

Jayden Jaymes
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:21:00 - [799]

for me 1 client with dualcore 1,8Ghz 4GB RAM, winXP, ATI HD 4800 1680x1050 all graphic on max fullscreen mode CQ runs smooth and fast, then undocking, space runs smooth and fast, so its a good work, grats.

problem is after re-dock and re-undock, fps falls down in CQ and in space too, so need more optimization.

the feeling of CQ and hangar is really cool, sounds are cool too. i see lots of possibilities for future developing.

what i miss and hope they will be avaliable in future:

- looking out from a window
- travel in a wall-lift in the hangar
- toilet/bathromm in my CQ
- huge indoor station spaces :)

- bring back the old hangar view and make it optional to choose to get out from the ship/pod

- make vanity items a bit cheaper or make them useful (like implants)

- need 200x more vanity items to choose from

- make a dev blog about why vanity items are expensive for those who have no common sense to see why

- get old-maller back in game with other statistics or something, cause it looks really cool

- and if you want more players, make pvp accessable and fair for all skill level player and make pve interesting

Lauryne Aquila
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:23:00 - [800]

Edited by: Lauryne Aquila on 23/06/2011 09:26:37
Edited by: Lauryne Aquila on 23/06/2011 09:23:44
I've tried Incarna and switched it off. The idea was interresting, living outside his pod, walking across a station and so on... But we're capsuleers, living in space and barely never leaving our ships, why are we forced to come back to CQ each time we dock. That's a ridiculous waste of time and add nothing to gameplay.

Please let us dock as before, with our ship and allow us fast ship ops before undocking and let he CQ optional via a "Leave Pod" button. People could discover CQ and WIS as they want an when they want. I play Eve for spacefight and exploration, not to play an ugly avatar, there's Second Life for this and it's free...

And in the end, the new turrets are interresting but I must admit that the icons are very ugly and it's very difficult to see what's activated or not. But i'm sure you could fix this very quickliy.

Oh ! Yes, i forget something : I've read the NEX prices twice before realizing they were realy outrageous for very ugly and basical stuff... Ugly and useless stuff...

Dalvor Coraneu
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:28:00 - [801]

I tried the new patch last night. It's clearly early days and there's a lot of work to be done before WIS is a proper part of the game. That said, the potential is there to open the game up massively should it be done properly and I'm quite excited about it long term.

In the meantime, a few thoughts:

- where's the run button? my character is so sluggish i got bored of trying to walk around after a minute or two.

- the load on GPU is excessive in station. my PC is now louder in station than any other game I play. I currently use a 1Gb 5870 so I don't think idling in station should be stressing it as much

- graphics look a little glitchy, especially when checking myself in the mirror

- the CQ causes the screen to be way too busy; create a quick button/option to minimise all grids before trying to navigate the CQ. that way chats/mkt/wallet/windows minimise and let you enjoy the full screen walking

- turret fitting icons are almost invisible; i think it's the 720mm's i had fitted

I can understand some people *****ing on here as it's something new and as it stands its poorly executed. As has been pointed out there are 3-5 year old games with similar graphical standards but nowhere near the GPU load we see in CQ. It feels terrible. I could go on. Since it's a first iteration I'll bear with it, but please, CCP, take the time to fix it rather than rushing ahead with another sub standard release.

PS - I don't have any interest in the micro transaction stuff so no comment.

Carmen Estacado
Posted - 2011.06.23 09:41:00 - [802]

Edited by: Carmen Estacado on 23/06/2011 09:45:26
Edited by: Carmen Estacado on 23/06/2011 09:43:22
After now having read a couple more posts on this thread I'd like to add one more point of feedback.

Loading CQ the first time in a session takes ages on my PC. The neocom becomes responsive after about a minute and it takes literally around another 4 minutes for CQ to finish. On the upside, consequent loading after docking is much faster: About 10s for the UI, 30s for CQ. That's probably far from optimal but as you can see from the lack of mentioning it in my previous post it's nothing I can't live with for now and as long as it doesn't get worse.

That being said, and even though the tone of some complaining here leaves much to be desired, I do think that those asking for a 2 step docking procedure offer a valid point. Docking at a harbor does not necessarily mean the crew gets shore-leave let alone that the captain will leave the ship. In fact, in most cases it doesn't. And that's with people that can just walk... now consider a capsuleer.

Being able to dock, unload your cargo and be off again without having to put your feet on the ground seems sensible. This would also enable you to spend more game time (skip-able perhaps) on highlighting the pod, the procedure needed to leave it and having to shower to get all that goo out of your hair when a player actually chooses to leave it. It would also make the experience more meaningful as a consequence of a direct decision: "All work is done, I need to get a drink." or "I don't want to use the com channels to talk to this person/agent but do it face to face."

Note that I'm not saying "Bring back the old ship spinning". I wouldn't mind having the ship being actually docked at a runway and rendered using the Incarna engine and using camera drones to inspect it (And when you leave it you get your avatar and the CQ and can walk the full length of it on a walkway. How's that for conveying scale! :P).

What I am saying is that making docking a 2-step procedure switching between 3 stages (flying, docked but in pod, out of the pod) is reasonable from a common sense and role playing perspective and if it helps with appeasing the people that are complaining about loading times and wanting to skip CQ... even better.

Posted - 2011.06.23 09:43:00 - [803]

Originally by: Hieder
I recieved a message from GM Panzer regarding this:

... There are no immediate plans to re-enable the old station view, but of course we take the feedback from our customers seriously

Sounds like they are trying to forcefeed it to us.

I don't think this statement indicates that. If the feedback in this thread is anything to go by then I think CCP should make some plans.

It just makes no sense that a capsuleer would want to unpod her/himself everytime they dock. Not only that, unpod in full view of the rest of the station! The pod should dock into airlock type arrangement between hangar and a private vestibule in the quarters unseen from the rest of the world (we are all naked in there after all).

I love CQ and where it can take the game but it just doesn't fit atm.

Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:05:00 - [804]

Entering CQ should be optional. The ship should first dock in the normal hangar like we are used to and we should be given another button to actually unpod and enter CQ.

This would in my opinion add to the immersion as it isnt always there is a need to enter CQ...... especially now that we dont even have acess to the rest of the station. Even then it should be optional to leave the pod and stroll around.

This would be way more realistic then it is now.

I really like WIS but dont want to leave my pod everytime i dock. From what i understand leaving the pod is somewhat a process that you dont want to overdo.

Hope CCP is willing to make this optional.

Legion of The Damned.
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:06:00 - [805]

Shinshi Casoyako
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:07:00 - [806]

Subscription cancelled, cant play the game with my card and the update doesnt give me a reason to pay money for a new card.

Might return when I got a new computer, but the game overall has gone downhill from when I started 7ish years ago.

Actually Incarna is probably the best update to stop eve-addiction

Ytamii Arval
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:16:00 - [807]

Another plea for the old turret effects and icons. The strip miners are sickening. WTF is that icon supposed to be??

And whoever decided that a thin blue line which doesn't look like it could fry an egg is 'cooler' than a massive powerful beam that looks like it really could vaporize a roid, that person needs to be forced into rehab.

BTW, who exactly requested these things be changed?

Posted - 2011.06.23 10:17:00 - [808]

I see where Incarna could be going but the current implementation is dire with mixed up UI interfaces, buttons over(or under)lying other UI elements, stressing graphics cards to the limit, slowing down game play and on and on. Totally dire.

RMT are a joke and that can be seen not just here on the forums but in other publications.

Once again CCP fails big time with keeping in touch with their player base and the CSM.

I'm very sorry to say the whole thing has become a joke. For what it's worth (to CCP) my two accounts are now cancelled.

I may be back when this fail cascade of an "update" is fixed.

Jefferson H Clay
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:21:00 - [809]

Originally by: Dennie Fleetfoot

1. I'm happy, ney, delighted for you that CQ works splendidly on your 2k gaming rig. Fair play to you.

Intresting aside, a lot of the posts are from people with those 2k gaming rigs. It's people with reference boards and bog standard mobo layouts that seem to be sailing along smoothly. Well in a limping 'I canna run captain' fashion at least.

Never buy "gamer" gear. It's usually over priced rebadged server grade stuff or complete tat.

Aria Carna
Posted - 2011.06.23 10:24:00 - [810]

I honestly don't understand why you all whine so much about CQ. I play EVE on a netbook. A friggin' netbook! With 1.6Ghz Atom, 3Gb RAM and ION graphics. And it is quite playable. It is not 60 fps, but really, is it necessary? Even with my machine I get about 15 fps on max settings (except for no physics and no AA).

Yes, it could be better if CCP allowed us to remain inside the pod and enter CQ only if we wish so. I imagine a flyby from a ship to the balcony in a pod, then it docks and opens, and your get out, put on your clothes and so on. Well, that would be much more immersive, and I think CCP will eventually implement it. But for now I see no reason at all to cancel subscription. On the contrary, I like the direction EVE is moving.

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