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Inflicted Fear
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:09:00 - [601]

- CQ is slow and buggy. Seriously where was your need for speed initiative when this was designed?
- Why cant we still have a choice of the old spinning ship interface?
- Great job with the turrets. Shame that they retract during the times when you could actually look at them uninterrupted ie while warping, ect.
- What I really don't get is why you didn't work on missiles first. Turrets already had animations...

Ranka Mei
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:11:00 - [602]

Originally by: tikktokk tokkzikk

comp as in computer.

Sorry, mate, misread ya. :)

Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:13:00 - [603]

Originally by: Straahl
Originally by: Pace eGuerra
Really liking the concept of Incarna, its potential to change the social and immersive aspects of the game are huge and am happy to accept your approach of introducing in baby steps.

But I want to add my +1s to the following things that really MUST be added/fixed to bring back playability.

1. We need to stay in our ships when we dock. As far as PVP goes this can't change. It's common for fleet members to leave on a CTA or roam with a missing mod, or need to change their setup en route to a destination. Being able to buy stuff in transit, divert away from fleet, dock, fit, undock and catch up with fleet is a fundamental requirement. Adding technical barriers to the efficiency of this operation is not good.

2. It's not enough to have an option to turn Incarna off even though I'm sure we appreciate that setting. I want to use Incarna and I'm really looking forward to using it beyond CQ but I also need the fast refit / ship change option. There needs to be a disembark option and if we don't disembark then we don't get hit with the performance requirements of Incarna. Dock/refit/undock should be as fast as it was pre-Incarna as long as we don't disembark.

3. I need to be able drag and drop a ship from the hangar window to somewhere on the screen in order to change ship. For example, Simply dragging a ship icon outside of the hangar window should cause that ship to be active. When out of my ship I want firstly to be able to see what ship I will undock with no matter where I am in the station so that I can hit the undock button and know what I'll be in when I enter space. I can do this now by opening the fitting tool but it would nice if there was an icon on the neocom.

4. Need to be able to have separate graphics settings for in station and in space. This should cover both quality vs performance settings as well as moving the centre of the view.

It's a shame that all the stupid emo raging that's going on is detracting from the indisputable fact that the above is really going to kill playability.

Love your work guys, keep it up. But please remember that the player base really need these issues to be addressed.

Pretty much all this right here sum up my feelings. Especially, "2. It's not enough to have an option to turn Incarna off even though I'm sure we appreciate that setting. I want to use Incarna and I'm really looking forward to using it beyond CQ but I also need the fast refit / ship change option. There needs to be a disembark option and if we don't disembark then we don't get hit with the performance requirements of Incarna. Dock/refit/undock should be as fast as it was pre-Incarna as long as we don't disembark."

CCP, we NEED a disembark feature.

^ This.

Good job so far CCP; It looks great, however... I really can't see myself wanting to use it. I want to pew pew. If I wanted to randomly walk around with a 3d avatar, I would go download Second Life, or, you know, leave my apartment.

Ranka Mei
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:14:00 - [604]

Originally by: Evanova Android

Yes, do this please. The new view is a waste of dev and game time. It doesn't provide the 'immersion' CCP thought it does, and adds no value to the gameplay. It's not even shiny, it's too dark in there. And bloody noisy.

Why is everybody always on about it being dark in CQ? It's not overly bright or anything, but it's certainly well-lit (amount-wise, at least). All the screens provide ample extra lighting too.

Shaul Amaninatis
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:16:00 - [605]

Edited by: Shaul Amaninatis on 22/06/2011 17:16:55
Thank you CCP for getting the vanity items right (I'm not kidding).

With these prices the NeX items are clearly end game content for high sec carebears and role players. Those who already own any **** they ever desired.

And at the same time it keeps PLEX prices from crashing ugh

I do now consider emptying my wallet for some PLEX and then get me some new clothes.

PS: Well thought out ISK sink Wink

Rooks and Kings
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:17:00 - [606]

Wow, just wow. A Feature like CQ without any real purpose.. pretty leet!

Give us back what we pay for not this pointless crap. Its fun for new players for about 10 mins. Us old guys really dont see the point of it, graphics isnt why we play it!!! Reboot and do it better!!!

FYI CCP: If its not broke, dont fix it!

Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:28:00 - [607]

Originally by: Ganryder
Wow, just wow. A Feature like CQ without any real purpose.. pretty leet!

Give us back what we pay for not this pointless crap. Its fun for new players for about 10 mins. Us old guys really dont see the point of it, graphics isnt why we play it!!! Reboot and do it better!!!

FYI CCP: If its not broke, dont fix it!

If it's not broke, it's not from CCP. Get it right!

Posted - 2011.06.22 17:37:00 - [608]

Has anyone from CCP even responded to this thread yet?

Ste'ven Sch'orik
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:37:00 - [609]

@Ranka People are complaining because not all of us can AFFORD a new computer or gpu. Stop criticizing everyone just because we aren't as "high and mighty" as you.

Back to one of the issues at hand. The strain on my gpu is higher than it was before even though there is no increase in graphic quality. I run everything on lowest settings anyway but its overheating my gpu as if graphics were maxed. I get no lag or anything like that I just want to know what CCP did to the graphics for this to happen. This is the 3rd or 4th time I've said something about it and not once has there been a response from CCP to my question.

True Enlightenment
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:38:00 - [610]

Incarna is a BIG disapointment Sad
And i was really looking forward to it...

I cant play CQ becuase its too much slow and my computer heats up dangerously.

Now i just want game like was before incarna, i want to dock and to see my ship and not the stupid door i can do all the stuff i need and undock normaly Razz

Thats all...
I dont care about NEX store and prices and what not, i just want to log on normaly as yesterday and play the game Sad

Posted - 2011.06.22 17:39:00 - [611]

Most was already said, but i'll want to add my bull5h1t also!

First: The idea is great behind Incarna. The way it is today is totaly crap!

Shows me again that u are not playing your own game propably as some of your devs try to make the ppl think.

Couldn't believe it that u ****ed up the performance this hard as ppl are telling here. As i am someone with more then 2 accounts (5 atm) and 3 screens on 2 graphic-cards (my luck, both are nvidia), i had no problems before with running 5 clients with medium settings (not high end, but also some things on medium and high to make it less ugly watching). Now, have 5 clients running with CQ and dropped from 60fps to 15fps ... good job!

When i read about the prices for cloth and other things in the new store, i even didn't check it anymore! Will give about 250k - 2m ISK for some nice cloth but not anything more!

Someone already said what i also wanted to be:
- Docking, u are in the old way for ship spinning, with a small button "Leave to CQ"
- Then u are at the bottom of the ramp, in front of your pod
- U can get up the stairs, do all the useless things in CQ and then u will never enter CQ again but u can spinn your ship the old style!

What i also hate:
- No more Drag and Drop to switch ships! Come on ... u safed me 3 clicks (and it's not more) 5 times a week when i launch a carrier/dread from the pos array, but i force me to do at least 50 clicks more per day ... again: good job!
- Well i already knew that u won't do any changes to the tech-problem or even think about the way u encourage ppl to go to 0.0 and REALY LIVE out there, then u said, "u will fight for space in the future to get anomalies for the grunts again" and in the same patch u boost mission running again (standing requirement like it's Q-20 and payout like it's a Q20 agent ... no boost?)...
Think u forgot about the concept of "Risk and Reward"
Was all clear that u won't change these things with incarna, just wanted to add this totaly 5hit u made again.

EVE isn't this awesome money printing maschine like WoW and looks like u want to make EVE also in the future a long time game and not just a game for a summer vacation. So u HAVE TO LISTEN to your community! Never heard that escept some very lonly single ppl started to play eve because of ANY OTHER reason as some friend saying "awesome game"!
So, how u want to get your "over 9000" new accounts daily if u make the ppl hate the game they invested years up to now?

As it's already a "TL;DR" and even if this would be just 20 works, that descripe how to safly get the master of the universe, noone else then other disappointed "whine" ppl (like me!) would read it!

Hope more ppl will add massive texts and we will reach the 50 patches before friday, maybe anyone of CCP feels slightly force to add any more comment then just "Hey MAC Users, here's a fix!"

Lucida Grande
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:42:00 - [612]

How long has CCP been talking about walking around in EVE, 4 years? More? And now it's here we get a single room. That's not something to brag about. What are you guys doing with our subscription money? Maybe you need to hire some more software engineers. Yes I've read the promises that more is coming, but 4 years for this approaches a Duke Nukem ratio of deliverable / development time.

Posted - 2011.06.22 17:43:00 - [613]

Edited by: Catheressia on 22/06/2011 17:43:20
I like CQ I think it has huge potential and I have to keep reminding myself that its not yet finished. Thing is, it has so few features it feels like it hasn't yet started.

Station services? Surely not hard to add a panel/screen in CQ for accessing them.

And please please please, like hundreds of posts have asked before me, make an option in the traditional station view to enter CQ. If for no other reason then for the reason that it doesn't fit with narrative and detracts from the immersive nature of EVE for a pilot to have to eject from their ship in a pod, unplug themselves and get dressed and then the whole process in reverse just to put some more ammo in the cargohold or unload some ore.

Celgar Thurn
Department 10
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:44:00 - [614]

Edited by: Celgar Thurn on 22/06/2011 17:52:54
On the 'pros' I like the idea of the new turrets although I haven't been out of dock yet to test them out.The new Agent Finder is very good as well enabling us to see multiple combinations of agents. Thumbs up on those two.

On the 'cons' the CQ area is very dark apart from the outside docking area.My char is very blotchy looking in the inside area but nice looking outside in the docking area. I agree with others comments that the scale of the ships doesn't look right now with the need to make smaller vessels such as shuttles more pleasing to the eye. The old docking area was better in terms of scale of ships.
Pre this update I could just about get the recustomization system to work on the lowest settings on a GEforce 6200 512MB DDR2. Now it seems to have nearly seized up.In addition I'm not sure if the recustomization can alter body changes? I gave Celgar a big beer gut but upon seeing him in CQ I would like to remove it.I have a feeling it isn't possible to do that even if the recustomization starts working again. God help all the chars with massive breasts!!!
In short as long as I am able to I will not be using the CQ area as it is surplus to requirements.
PS The prices for the 'Noble' items are obviously incorrect. Eg the eyepiece at virtually four Plex costs 60 UK sterling value. In Guild Wars a five piece costume costs 6. I was looking forward to buying ship paint jobs but on that basis they will probably cost about 24,000 Aurum or 120 in retail Plex value.I realise there are costs but you need to have a word with your in-game economist.

Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:44:00 - [615]

I preferred the old continuous swoosh sound of strip miners... now they make just one sad grunting noise like a normal mining laser a couple times per cycle.

The beam is too similar to a normal mining laser too for me, I would like it to be brighter and fatter and more dramatic.

Posted - 2011.06.22 17:46:00 - [616]

Dear CCP

Thank you for not hiding the incarna "off" button in the esc menu.

Being able to find and uncheck this check box was the best bit of Incarna.


Inner Fire Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:46:00 - [617]

Incarna could have been a yard of Epic Ale, but what we have (so far) is a half-empty can of Meh Lite that's been sitting in the afternoon sun, spiked with a double-shot of Aurum-plated middlefinger.

First the good points.

GOOD: The new turret animations. They look cool when zoomed in on the ship, unfortunately I play zoomed OUT so I can see more of the battlefield.

GOOD: The new Maller model. It blows up real good too, as I found out after duking it out with another guy in a Maller and his corpies (I got caught stealing loot from a belt while ratting and ignored the undock warning, that 1MN MWD I wasn't worth it... GREED will be the undoing of CCP also).

Now, the bad.

BAD: CQ is not truly Optional. I'll be the 307th to say, DOCK into the OLD station hangar view and then give us an EXIT POD button.

BAD: NEX prices, WTF. Wasn't going to buy any of this crap anyway but still it's quite a sticker shock.

BAD: ONE out of FOUR CQ rooms are done, CCP doesn't even bother with releasing half-finished stuff anymore, 25% is now good enough!

BAD: CQ currently adds no game functionality or interaction with others, it has a lifespan of roughly 10 minutes before it is turned off.

BAD: No remote control or programmability of the video screens.

BAD: The game direction has obviously changed towards a cash-grab affair. See my remark about GREED above.

My subscription expires in roughly 13 days on my main, and 6 weeks on my alts, and at this point I can't be arsed to renew any of them. Summer is here, and I'd rather spend the summer and spare cash assembling the various bits littering my garage into a functioning motorcycle than waste my time with virtual monocles and crap.

I would have rather seen this expansion delayed until December and just bugfix patches to Incursion 1.6.x until this was truly ready.

Estrale Frontiers
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:51:00 - [618]

This is a total shambles.

Acadia Prime
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:53:00 - [619]

What's with the new icons? They're hideous.

The Salvager 1 looks like a greyish black blob of dung and the tractor beam? Just a little bit brighter but still a blob. It's especially noticeable when compared to the old, clean style graphics found in the other rack items.

Lando Storm
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:56:00 - [620]

Edited by: Lando Storm on 22/06/2011 18:12:11

Originally by: Ancyker
What is this ****? I was all ready to buy virtual clothes but these fake clothes cost more than real clothes.

Seriously, who thought of this? Promptly fire them and hire someone not a complete moron.

My credit card is now safely back in my wallet. When these prices are reasonable get back to me.

aside from the above. sweet(not awesome) "expansion".

P.S. seriously $65 for an ugly jacket WTF

Bellasarius Baxter
Zilog Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:57:00 - [621]

Well, CQ looks nice... Have to get used to it, though. MAybe the following should be placed in Features & Ideas, pls tell me so if I need to cross post it.

I would like to suggest a different approach to the whole Space ship/Walking in stations/CQ thing.

My idea is as follows:

You start in CQ when you are "born", you board your pod before getting into a ship, and you board a ship when you need to, AND STAY in the ship until you leave it, then you can decide to leave your Pod, and end up in CQ, and from there you can go out into the other parts of the station, when these become available.

As it is now, I seem to have the exact same CQ at every station in New Eden, whether I have ever been there before, or not.
The fact that you end up in CQ EVERY TIME you dock removes the "sense of being at home", at least for me.

Red Federation
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:57:00 - [622]

I'd like to offer some constructive feedback on this issue and provide some balance to all the unthinking whiners.

I will start by saying that Incarna in its current iteration doesn't really do it for me. The key word here is Iteration. CCP changed their MO some time ago to one of rolling out features in chunks to be iterated on. This I think is a good approach as it allows them to get feedback (if they choose to listen) and improve. I think people need to keep in mind that feedback needs to be constructive. I understand that people who have invested years into this world are resistant to change, especially that which is something different for the space game. But acting like a bunch of 5 y/olds who cant have an ice cream is just lame.

- Graphically I can't run it well, but then my PC is in need of upgrade which I am aware. I think it is too dark & the functionality is a little bit basic thus far. But I'm sure these things will change.

- CQ doesn't interest me really. I mean its nice to see a toon but the functionality is lacking and after a quick peek around i turned it off for performance. I am however interested in the further implications and some of the planned station stuff intrigues me, namely shady dealings (as long as it has some depth).

- All those saying they have sold us out & its all about WoD need to grow up a little before crying about cancelling subscriptions. I have no doubt there is some testing going on here for WoD but it also for planned station game play also.

I think they do need to get back to the space game some point. We all know the things that need fixing, and I'm sure that one day this will be done. I feel the disappointment here, I have my bitter vet days but people need to realise that CCP is a business and getting more people would be good for them and for the community.

Lastly: Noble exchange is a joke. For the argument that their cost comes from needing teams and resources to create assets would be alot more plausible if there was more there. 6 items? I mean I would prob never go for that stuff anyway, I fly space ships, I don't give a **** what fancy trousers I'm wearing. But for the people who would I feel the quality is lacking currently for the cost.

Posted - 2011.06.22 17:59:00 - [623]

700mb+ later and I can spin my Character! \O/ ugh

Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:03:00 - [624]

Edited by: Grimpak on 22/06/2011 18:03:25
two best things about this patch:

- new maller and new turrets are nice, altho I'm still trying to understand why arties and howies are double barreled...

- also, the best thing in this patch, as somebody said before, is the "do not load station environment" option, since at the very least I can keep my computer cooler and not hot enough to cook eggs.

also CCP, where is the "Incarna will be optional!" in this patch?

Valor D'eglise
Red Cross Of Gallente Federation
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:03:00 - [625]

Want to leave my feedback in this thread after the first day of Incarna.
I have not read the thread yet as don't want to be biased by the opinion of others.

So, before Incarna came out I was actually not very excited for the "walking in station"-part.
Now that I have used it I have to say: I was fun! The three minutes it lasted.Sad

There is no real reason to walk around in the quarter. Especially with the turtle like speed that toons move at and the stiff "broom up the arse" animation.
I tried out all the features, but for me there no added value - only longer loading times and a lot more power to draw because of the added graphics.
I have an ATI HD5870 (which, if I am correct, is still to be considered "hi end"). Because CCP's take on anti aliasing is as good as not using it as all, I forced AA in the drivers (4x, 8 samples, super-sample) and the game looks AMAZING and runs fluid in every situation in space at full HD.
Captains quarter is a different story, though. I have less than 20 fps and my GPU is "on fire". It's OK if I disable AA, but I'm not used to seeing stairs on edges so it looks...meh. Performance wise it would be OK with the adaptive multi-sample setting, but it produces graphical bugs. See-through walls and a strange lens-flare-like effects from the ship hologram on the table.

So I turned it off after a couple of minutes. Saves money (less power for needed for the graphics card) and saves time.
Until the public areas are opened I see no reason to use captains quarters, but I'm repeating myself.

I also activated an alt in Jita to check the pricing on clothes from the aurum store, just out of pure curiosity. I almost fainted!Shocked
400M for a pair of trousers? I suspected a scam and visited the store myself just to find that it indeed was a realistic price.
Pants worth more than one month of gametime. Which nobody else gets to see as they aren't visible in the avatar pics and bragging about them in public is not possible yet.

But since I don't have to buy clothes (and never intended to) and can (at least still) avoid the CQ I am not bothered too much.
Not being able to access the cargo hold of the active ship though double clicking and activating a new ship through drag and drop is annoying still, but I'll get used to it eventually.

On the other hand though I LOVE the new turret models, the animations and new effects. The ability to preview turrets has been abused several times by now! I like that they reflect racial influences and look different (and better IMHO) as T2/faction tier.
What I like most is probably that large autocannons now truly are autocannons and not artillery any more. Makes flying in a Machariel suddenly a lot more fun!
I also like that they start tracking even when not yet activated. The sudden "jump" in the old animation always bugged me a little.

So far.

Guess I'll read the thread now to see that other think and maybe adding later to the post.

Modgade Eode Unforht
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:04:00 - [626]

I want ship spinning back - ASAP!!! Sad

Deadly Intent.
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:09:00 - [627]

Sorry guys but you had over 5 years of talking about this and a community behind you and this is what you deliver? You have allowed greed and mission creep to put you in a position where your flagship product may very well fail because of your marketing department and apathetic attitude towards your customer base.

4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:10:00 - [628]

In station (with CQ turned off):

1) Can't double-click to open current ship's cargo anymore
2) No visual clues to what ship you're sitting in without opening fitting/ship window

I'll resist the urge to complain about ship-spinning, but these two things are a significant loss of UI functionality

Viktor Del'Grande
Gallente Forschung und Entwicklungscorp
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:10:00 - [629]

Nearly everything has been said here.
"My Eve" had 3 phases:
Begin: Cold War / Red Moon Rising
It was hard for me to get into the game, but it was rewarding

Golden Age: Revelation -> Apocrypha
I liked the 0.0 stuff, the wormholes, the T3 cruisers, the new improved scanning.

The End: Incarna
What i dont like, see the arguments in this thread. Pointless to repeat them again.

My Accounts expire in max 15 days from now.

CYA! No you cant get my stuff.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:13:00 - [630]

There are a lot of good things to say about Incarna, and as most of you know I have been a very staunch supporter of this initiative by CCP. It somewhat pains me to point out a couple of very negative points.

1: In CQ the code seriously needs to be optimized. I have decent equipment to play on but I am averaging 5 or 6 frames a second. That being said I am not experiencing the over heating issue many report, and I do realize that you needed to see how the code would perform under full stress.

2: Very minor issue. I put a salvager 2 on my Matari Blockade Runner, and in space it floats in space a fair distance ahead of the ship.

3: The Big Issue: I'm just going to come out and say this, as much as it pains me to do so. The prices in the Noble Store are a slap in the face to your player base, and need to be adjusted downward immediately to about 10% of their current prices.

Not only are they completely out of line with the rest of the MicroTransaction gaming community, they lend credence to the arguments of everyone I have ever butted heads with on the forum that accused you of using this new system as a money grab.

I don't know what the line of thinking was when deciding the pricing structure, and (uncharacteristically) this one time I really don't care.

This is completely out of line with the impression we were given of how MicroTransactions were going to work, and it needs to be addressed immediately. As it stands right now you will make little, if any, profit from the system because few can afford to use it. However if you drop the prices to 10% of their current levels, you would easily see a 1000% increase in total profit as the bulk of the player base would begin using it over time.

My main worry is why I'm even having to explain this to you, it should be easily self evident.

I've rarely had to cry foul on the decisions CCP has made in the past, even the most controversial ones. But this, well, this one is just stupid and borderline insulting.

Please, sort it out.

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