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Sophie Malaster
Heavy industries Shinohara
ARTESANOS
Posted - 2011.06.21 20:55:00 - [91]
 

YEAH!! So great CCP, you're doing a really great work!

Zyella Stormborn
Caldari
Evil Dead L.L.C.
Posted - 2011.06.21 21:07:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Out of curiosity, a question for CCP Salvo

Why did you guys choose to do the Salvager/tractor beam graphics over the NOS/Neut/Smartbomb omnidirectional or targetted turrets? NOS/Neut/Smartbombs have more of a tactical importance in PvP, where I could look at a ship to see what it is fitting and adjust my tactics accordingly. Salvager/Tractor beams are nowhere near as important from a tactical point of view, and only provide a little extra eye candy (which NOS/Neut/Smarties/etc would also do).

As such, I'm having some trouble understanding why Salvagers and Tractors got priority in this aspect. Could you explain CCP's reasoning? :)


I am guessing so that hard core Indies get love on this patch as well. I mean, for them, the other fancy turrets have no real effect, so now there is a little love for everyone (except for missileers).

Xorth Adimus
Caldari
Blackwater USA Inc.
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2011.06.21 21:36:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Second the motion for missile love. I recommend looking at '80s Anime for inspiration about how missiles should fly around the battlefield.

IMHO, it is totally OK if the client shows the missiles in a different position from where the server thinks the missiles are, as long as the two locations converge over time (hopefully in an insane set of corkscrews). Any discrepancies due to smartbombs and defender missiles will get lost in the fog of war, and you can just launch the missiles directly out of fixed tubes.

All the cute computations can be done on the client.


I agree missiles should fire directly and that any graphical tracking effects can be added on by the client (or not if turned off) as long as it still 'looks right'.

Guided missiles can simly be fixed forward facing tubes that missiles fly out of and then track which will add to the visual effect of this.

They are called missiles because they miss (lol hittiles).. so exact tracking and spiraling issues shouldnt be a problem by simply having explosions somewhere near the target (1km or so). Lack of splash damage can be attributed to smart charged submunitions accuratly striking targets and avoiding damage to surrounding ships (.. this is a shaped charge..). An update to the explosions wouldn't be a bad idea either.

For rockets HAMs and torpedos they shouldn't look like they track at all in flight and they should have a different aimed hardpoint and munition look.

Obviously then the explosion speed and the position of the missile/rocket explosion near the ship can give a nice visual prompt and indication of how well they are/ are not hitting.

ORCACommander
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:17:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Xorth Adimus
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Second the motion for missile love. I recommend looking at '80s Anime for inspiration about how missiles should fly around the battlefield.

IMHO, it is totally OK if the client shows the missiles in a different position from where the server thinks the missiles are, as long as the two locations converge over time (hopefully in an insane set of corkscrews). Any discrepancies due to smartbombs and defender missiles will get lost in the fog of war, and you can just launch the missiles directly out of fixed tubes.

All the cute computations can be done on the client.


I agree missiles should fire directly and that any graphical tracking effects can be added on by the client (or not if turned off) as long as it still 'looks right'.



Guided missiles can simly be fixed forward facing tubes that missiles fly out of and then track which will add to the visual effect of this.

They are called missiles because they miss (lol hittiles).. so exact tracking and spiraling issues shouldnt be a problem by simply having explosions somewhere near the target (1km or so). Lack of splash damage can be attributed to smart charged submunitions accuratly striking targets and avoiding damage to surrounding ships (.. this is a shaped charge..). An update to the explosions wouldn't be a bad idea either.

For rockets HAMs and torpedos they shouldn't look like they track at all in flight and they should have a different aimed hardpoint and munition look.

Obviously then the explosion speed and the position of the missile/rocket explosion near the ship can give a nice visual prompt and indication of how well they are/ are not hitting.



The way I figure it missiles in Eve are alot like American Mark 48 Torpedoes. IF fired normally they have a guidance wire attached to the submarine that allows it to use the submarines instrumental data and calculations which exceed that f the torpedo's capability and more reliably hit the target. When they are fired without this guided wired the torpedo is left to use its own sonar and onboard computer which is in its elf inferior to the submarine's and can not use use the submarine's data with its own to form triangulation which further increases accuracy.

I have looked into the static dumps that ccp gives the application devs and the missiles actually do not explode on impact but at about 2m outside the hull much like our air to air missiles do.

Please do not do anime style missiles I want some part of eve to respect Newtonian physics!

Auvious S'canault
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:20:00 - [95]
 

The laser turrets are NOT recoiling - they are allowing for rapid expansion of the crystal and focussing system, then rapidly recalibrating both during cooling :)

You know, with the new technology you could now put in "turret" effects for mid and low slot items like ECMs, AB/MWD, Cargohold Expanders (a big bulge with a matched shader?) etc.

Just sayin'

handige harrie
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:56:00 - [96]
 

Looking pretty darn good

Dalton Vanadis
Posted - 2011.06.21 23:08:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Salpad
Originally by: Daesis Wrack
Look at the fanboy buttkissing going on in this thread.

Turrets are about 1-2 meters in size, and EVE is played on a size scale of 1-100 kilometers. We just don't see the turrets. Hell, we rarely see the ships, just brackets.

Please make graphics and usability improvements to brackets and the overview, not something we only see when zoomed in to the point where we're not playing the game. Thanks.


Yes, this is indeed a problem, that we mostly shoot at targets we can't see.

CCP appears to recently have tried to solve the problem by automagically zooming in on the currently selected target. I'm not sure why it happens, but it does happen frequently to me in PVE.

A much less bad solution would be to introduce a new window, called "currently selected target", which shows something like a 250 by 250 pixels zoom-in of only the one ship or one other object that is currently selected (and only if targetted).

Or maybe 250x250 pixels is wrong. Maybe make the size user-selectable (150, 200, 250, 300, 400, 500, 600, 800). But it has to be "live 3D", not just a still image.



That'd be a cool view to add in

/signed

TheSpyInCorp
Posted - 2011.06.21 23:47:00 - [98]
 

CCP!!! make all turrets with shell ammo undeploy and deploy when they reload or switch ammo!!!

its also too bad other people cant tell if your turrets are on or off...

Abramul
Gallente
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.21 23:50:00 - [99]
 

As far as laser recoil goes, just say that they're venting coolant. Maybe even add a short-lived cloud to indicate this.

Wolfgang Grey
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:05:00 - [100]
 

Will the firing offset mentioned have a effect on ship's Alpha?

Or is it simply a graphics things?

Infinion
Caldari
Awesome Corp
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:22:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Infinion on 22/06/2011 01:01:27
Edited by: Infinion on 22/06/2011 00:35:59
awesome! POS guns don't have guns!

edit: that's actually only happening in the preview

http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/7113/20110622003135.jpgPlease visit your user settings to enable images.





oh man, the turrets are TINY, ccp needs to do some scaling

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3627/20110622002333.jpgPlease visit your user settings to enable images.


skye orionis
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:38:00 - [102]
 

So, now the new patch is live I really must extend congratulations to the Art team for producing the best part of the new release.

(BTW - try putting a Gatling pulse laser on a Reaper and watching it magically fold into a space that simply isn't there)

Infinion
Caldari
Awesome Corp
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:45:00 - [103]
 

Originally by: Wolfgang Grey
Will the firing offset mentioned have a effect on ship's Alpha?

Or is it simply a graphics things?


it's only visual

Sunbird Huy
Caldari
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.22 01:55:00 - [104]
 

Icons look terrible. Most of them are also very very WRONG.
1400mm artillery fires one round every 15-20 seconds, depending on skill. YET YOU HAVE A 2-BARREL MODEL IN GAME...LOL(no, not really)
800mm AC says 4-barreled blahblah...the model is 2-barrel turret.

Seriously.

Georn
VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2011.06.22 02:56:00 - [105]
 

I'm just happy, that I don't have to bugreport the missing recoilanimation since Apocrypha anymore ..
Also the new turret models and animations look sweeeeeeeeet. Kudos!
Can't wait for more stuff in that regard :)

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:03:00 - [106]
 


Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2011.06.22 03:06:00 - [107]
 

I love the shader picking up the tone of the ships, that's inspired! I will just say that I'd really really really like it if you turned recoil off for lasers though, it'd be a PLUS to differentiate them from the other systems!

Angst IronShard
Minmatar
Sense of Serendipity
Echoes of Nowhere
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:00:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Angst IronShard on 22/06/2011 04:00:34
Good job, but you could do better imo

I get an issue with a 425mm on a loki, the fore left gun is vertical instead of horizontal, so it's included in the hull.

the salvager II's icon is rotten, a black stroke on it.

and bomb launcher doesn't get a visible module yet.

o7

Soldarius
Caldari
Peek-A-Boo Bombers
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:57:00 - [109]
 

First, nice art work, CCP. Missiles next please!

Second,
Originally by: Cade Windstalker
By the way, you were right to leave recoil on lasers, any laser applying enough energy to a target to do significant damage would have as much or more recoil than the equivalent projectile weapon. Good old e=mc^2 states that light leaving an object imparts a force relative to the amount of energy the light contains.

Translation for anyone who doesn't speak physics: Laser guns pack one heck of a kick, Einstein said so.

Before anyone jumps on it, I said "as much or more" because it depends on the attenuation rate of the beam vs the energy lost by the projectile over its travel distance. The reason you never hear about lasers having recoil is because the only ones big enough to have recoil are also, right now, so big they have to have their own building.



Quoting someone talking about Einsteinian physics in a game with jump drives, warp drives, and jump gates.

While I don't dispute the amount of energy involved, or the fact that there is recoil for both a laser and a projectile, I must point that there is a huge difference between total energy and the amount of recoil experienced upon firing lasers and projectiles.

Linkage to Cornell physics blog.

Read down a couple comments. The writer continues on to figure out how far a weapon with mass of 5kg would recoil over the 30ns impulse time when subjected to the 15 Newtons of momentum. The result is 1.35 x 10^-15 meters, or roughly 1 atomic diameter.

While not zero, the recoil would be unnoticeable.

Your second error is in regards to the "attenuation rate of the beam vs the energy lost by the projectile over its travel distance."

What does this have to do with the energy imparted upon firing? This is energy lost during travel to its destination, and will only affect its available energy upon impact. Irrelevant.

tl;dr, A laser of equivalent energy has an extremely short impulse duration, which is critical to determining how far a gun of given mass recoils. So no noticeable recoil.

Dorn Val
Posted - 2011.06.22 06:22:00 - [110]
 

I'm very impressed with all the time and effort that the graphics department has been putting into the game -keep up the good work!!!

Respect.

Aston Martin DB5
Posted - 2011.06.22 07:27:00 - [111]
 

They are pretty cool and all but..................

How many people actually stay ZOOMED in to actually notice a differnce? The new special effects are definitely needed though.

Malcheus
Posted - 2011.06.22 08:19:00 - [112]
 

maybe this has been said before; but:
if "number of turret hardpoints = number of highslots"

where is the 4th dreadnought turret hardpoint going to be?
what happens if I switch my siege module with a turret?

Aline Kia
Caldari
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.22 09:00:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Aline Kia on 22/06/2011 09:01:07
Quote:

And while the artists were adding the additional locators to all the ships, the programmers upgraded the hi-slots so that a turret slot could now occupy any hi-slot. Locator pairs or triads on ships are numbered 1 through 8 (of course not all 8 are present on all ships, there just isn't enough room) and static, and now hi-slots correspond to them left-to-right, so slot 1 is where turret pair/triad 1a,1b,/1c would fit - which means, if you don't like the layout of the turrets, move it to another hi-slot and the turrets will shift their position on the ship. (Prior to this update, turrets used to fill the turret locators numerically regardless of which hi-slot you used.)



Luv the new turrets... but did you guys forget that ppl position their turrets for maximum heat sinkage for overheating modules...... isn't that gonna mess up the "look" of some ships??

Just a thought, not sure if you'd considered it.




P.S. sorry if someone has already said this haven't gone through the whole thread yet...

ChromeStriker
Posted - 2011.06.22 09:04:00 - [114]
 

Mining lazaz change colour depending on which ores your mining? veld+sco=purple that kinda thing?

Captain Mung
Posted - 2011.06.22 10:10:00 - [115]
 

The new turrets look cool (well most of them) but when are the attachment points going to be fixed? Some of the turrents look like they are hanging on by a thread and others cut through parts of ships oddly.

Candar Beldrulf
Matari Munitions
Posted - 2011.06.22 10:42:00 - [116]
 

Edited by: Candar Beldrulf on 22/06/2011 10:42:23
What happened to the nice symmetrical turret layouts? My punisher looks lopsided and my hurricane looks frankly ridiculous!

And if you think that's bad, check out the top-hat on the Revelation:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.



Thawne Qirna
Posted - 2011.06.22 11:14:00 - [117]
 

Simply, I think the turret makeover looks awesome.

Nice one CCP Smile

akitespero
Posted - 2011.06.22 11:58:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: akitespero on 22/06/2011 11:58:30
Love the new turrets, the animations and all the detail. I also like the window that allows me to see the turret during fitting.

Problem is the icons. First it is quite hard to differentiate one turret from the next, and second they do not match the rest of the icons.

An icon is something that represents and item, it doesn't have to be a miniature hyper-realistic picture. An icon is a simplified representation that allows us to differentiate one item from another. This is an instance where more detail is not better.

Other than that, well done CCP.


Lidia Prince
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.22 12:57:00 - [119]
 

I've been waiting for this blog, lol. Great job designing and animating them, love em SO much <3 .

Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT
Posted - 2011.06.22 14:19:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Daesis Wrack
Look at the fanboy buttkissing going on in this thread.

Turrets are about 1-2 meters in size, and EVE is played on a size scale of 1-100 kilometers. We just don't see the turrets. Hell, we rarely see the ships, just brackets.

Please make graphics and usability improvements to brackets and the overview, not something we only see when zoomed in to the point where we're not playing the game. Thanks.


Erm . . . Look at the size of battleship (real world) guns, and then realize that very view fire a 300 mm shell, let alone a 1400 mm shell. Or even have 4 barrels throwing 3500 mm shells!

Guns is big


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