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Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:00:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Salpad
When will missiles get an eye candy upgrade?

The two things that needs doing seem very simple to me, relative to the complex work you've done on the silly güns that the other races use:

1. Make it so that missiles are launched from specific opening or apertures in ship hulls, with hulls that have many missile hardpoints being defined as having many such potential apertues.

2. Display multiple missiles flying through space for salvos, even if server-wise they're treated as only a single object. Like have a graphic for single-missile, dual-missile, triple-missile and so forth up to 8x-missile, for each of rockets, light missiles, heavies, HAM, cruise and torpedo? When I launch an alpha at someone, I want it to look awesome, and a formation of 7 missiles will look much more awesome than a single missile.

It's not much to ask for. So when will we get it?



For inspiration, go look at Mechwarrior 3 (3, not 4). The missiles in that game launched and swarmed around each other; the effect is really cool. Wing Commander: Prophecy had a similar effect with the "Swarm" missiles. Add to that an explosion effect that has multiple, small flash-points, slighly asynchronous, and you get a really nice effect.

Btw, +1 cool points for slightly asynchronous turret firing. If each ship randomizes across each tick (second), it will look even better. Seeing 100 Abaddon's shooting in perfect unison just looks unrealistic.

Klingon Admiral
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:04:00 - [32]
 

Isn't the position of turret "1c" on the rifter occupied by a turret of another gun group?

But awesome work, I wonder how the guns of my maelstrom look like after the patch. =)

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:08:00 - [33]
 

Out of curiosity, a question for CCP Salvo

Why did you guys choose to do the Salvager/tractor beam graphics over the NOS/Neut/Smartbomb omnidirectional or targetted turrets? NOS/Neut/Smartbombs have more of a tactical importance in PvP, where I could look at a ship to see what it is fitting and adjust my tactics accordingly. Salvager/Tractor beams are nowhere near as important from a tactical point of view, and only provide a little extra eye candy (which NOS/Neut/Smarties/etc would also do).

As such, I'm having some trouble understanding why Salvagers and Tractors got priority in this aspect. Could you explain CCP's reasoning? :)

Goldnut Sachs
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:10:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Goldnut Sachs on 21/06/2011 17:24:36
great job,
srsly, i don't care about space barbie n dollhouse
but i sure love nicer lookin guns

maybe next up is to make the impact effects of the guns look nicer (when u get hit/looking at the target you are hitting), as of now apart from missiles and large beam lasers there isn't much effect to look at.

for example when hit by projectiles the target ship will be peppered with plumes of explosive flames, and when hit by hybrids there will be glowing holes

might be too hard to do, now i think of it most fps games also don't really have impressive bullet impact effects

Caiman Graystock
Caldari
Cornelius Starship and Computer Design
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:14:00 - [35]
 

Spectacular! Stunning! Wonderful! Really, this is a fantastic and much appreciated overhaul, great job to everyone involved and thanks for such a great detailed blog about it.

TheLostPenguin
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:15:00 - [36]
 

Sounds nice, altho the preview vid i saw a while back I thought they looked a bit over-animated and fiddly for my taste, but frankly I'll take that over the hideous sticks we had for turrets that looked even more out of place since the last revamp of turret effects.

Also missiles YES PLEASE, I guess you have to decide whether to animate them "properly" ie creating new origin points for missiles to spawn from when fired rather than just use the ships ball (I guess this could potentially add load to the in-space physics as it now has the extra balls of missile launchers to keep track of relating to every drake on the field) or you could jsut fudge it and seperate the animation of missiles from the actual physics object, that way you can do suitably awesome clouds of missiles twirling towards their target eithout having to monkey around with any other core systems, altho I guess you then need to push the flight speed of every missile group fired to everyone that can see it so the clientsa can all animate them at the correct flight speedugh Would it be possible to have this data added to each missile groups object so that as well as saying "heres a missile" the server tells the client "heres a missile, animate flying at <this> speed", might be easier way to do all kinds of fancy missile effects without actually having to change the core handling of missiles within the engine. (could do this only when the missile (group) object is created or for the first time a new viewer is sent info on it, to avoid constantly sending the same bit of data to all clients)

However you do it, and I'm just pondering possibilities here, really hope we get new missiles Soon™ that look somewhere near as good as turrets will now, with this they're the big ugly left with weapons systems, and maybe however you solve the missile problem could also be applied to drones, which really need to "launch" and recall prettily too rather than just spawn/despawnCool

Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:19:00 - [37]
 

Great work, but if I may make a suggestion regarding deploying guns to the active position:

Move guns to the inactive position when
* Repairing with nanite paste
* Reloading charges (only for Hybrids & Projectile)

yes, It would be 'neat' to have the option to manually deploy the weapons, or stow them away as necessary.

I am reminded of We Approach With Gun Ports Open As A Sign Of Respect

Lord Okinaba
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:19:00 - [38]
 

Looks awesome, can't wait to check it out. I just hope it isn't too demanding on my antique of a computer. ugh

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:20:00 - [39]
 

That was one massive blog... More of those please Very Happy

I've loved the look of the new turrets ever since starting testing them on SISI and they look great, though i have some comments that I'm not that happy about.

A. Some of the projectile weapons have a kink in the barrels, wich would make the projectile having to do an S-curve while moving through the barrel... It's visualy pleasing with the weapon like that, but with any sence of realism in mind, it would be a higher propability that firing the weapons would make them blow up in the pilots face, rather then making the enemy blow up.

B. I REALLY don't like the "final and briliant solution" (from what I read in the blog) for the deployment and docking of the turrets and would rather prefer the <when start targeting> option. I understand that makes for some challenges as mentioned, with "instalocking" ships in mind, so I would rather like to see a option-system, something like this:
  1. Deploy on targeting
    • Weapon deploy when targeting and starts tracking when target is aquired. If targeting is faster then weapon deployment, the wapon will be ready to fire when deployment is complete

    • When target is destroyed after firing at it and no other targets are locked, the weapon enteres a cooldown timer of xx seconds before docking again. Allowing the pilot to start locking new targets without the weapon having to dock and then deploy again

  2. Dock when warping

    • Basicaly the system that is implemented now

  3. Manual override

    • Adds a toggle button to the right of the command rose where you can toggle "Safe" and "Ready" mode (should also be able assign keyboard shortcut to the toggle command).

    • If set to "Ready" turrets will always be deployed unless they are offline or have burnt out.

    • If set "Safe" weapons will stay docked up regardless, but can be toggled to "Ready" by trying to activate a weapon.


Now, I do run missions a lot and with deploying turrets when you start locking, it doesn't matter to me if I have to wait for a second or two for the guns to become ready as it has no impact on the mission. In PVP ofcourse it would be best for the pilot to have the turrets ready all the time. Hence why it should be an option based on the player style...

Also, if you are traveling like 10 jumps, with the current turret system, it looks kinda stupid with the turrets deploying and docking up all the time...

BTW... Another thing that just came to mind... With exception of the turrets that use crystals (energy and mining lasers/strip miners), The 10 second wait for reloading ammo, could contain a dock-and-deploy effect to illustrate the turret being retracted for a "magazine replacement" or something...

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:25:00 - [40]
 

rainbow mining... Confused

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:26:00 - [41]
 

Also, an observation...

It's a bit sad to see the turret behavior I want is presented to us at the log-in screen (ship warps in, makes a turn, then deploys weapons, track target, fire for a while, stop tracking target, and dock up - but the ship doesn't warp away), but isn't available in-game -_-

Daedalus II
Helios Research
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:29:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Illectroculus Defined
Great work, but if I may make a suggestion regarding deploying guns to the active position:

Move guns to the inactive position when
* Repairing with nanite paste
* Reloading charges (only for Hybrids & Projectile)


This, I also would like to see the turrets retract when reloading them.

Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:33:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Chribba
rainbow mining... Confused

Lol Chribba

I think the new mining laser effect looked awesome... Kinda makes me wanna do some mining again, if I could only remember where my Hulks are Laughing
If only the colours of the mining laser would be affected (if only a little bit) by wich of the mining crystals you're using, and that you would get distorted looking laser beams if you were mining with the wrong crystals.

There's some potential here, methinks ugh

Elsa Nietchize
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:38:00 - [44]
 

Great work on this. Looks absolutely beautiful.
any word on when you guys are gunna balance hybrids?
or nerf supers?

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:42:00 - [45]
 

I checked em out and they look very nice, very nice indeed.

Also, haha no missile launchers for you, Caldari ! Twisted Evil

Yvan Ratamnim
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:45:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Yvan Ratamnim on 21/06/2011 17:53:55
that last section about effects...

whats the timeline on getting those effects and the other modules done??? as those were really the parts that we want most of all... and will be the most visible new laser and gun effects will be what we see most of all even though the turrets are nice when zoomed in to see them...

DEAR GOD FIX THE MACHARIAL! , that poor amazing ship the plateaus where the guns sit is far too wide for even the biggest 1400mm artillery that it really just makes the guns look stupidly small ... i mean i know the ship is massive, but the massive plateaus for the guns make them look out of scale completely.

Originally by: Elsa Nietchize
Great work on this. Looks absolutely beautiful.
any word on when you guys are gunna balance hybrids?
or nerf supers?


DEAR GOD NO, lets keep the ART DEPARTMENT away from handling BALANCE

Rixiu
The Inuits
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:45:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Elsa Nietchize
Great work on this. Looks absolutely beautiful.
any word on when you guys are gunna balance hybrids?
or nerf supers?


I'd rather not have the art department do balancing. But then again, it might just be me Rolling Eyes

Luke S
Zeta Corp.
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:48:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Luke S on 21/06/2011 17:48:40
Originally by: Dev Blog
Then one day during another planning meeting our technical artist made the suggestion of why not just deploy when exiting warp, and pack when entering warp. There was a moment of silence as the team looked at each other and realized how simple and obvious it was, and how we had not seen it before.


LaughingLaughingLaughingLaughing

Its so simple, its BRILLIANT!

Who ever suggested it, needs a bonus! I cant wait to see this, I also can't wait to see turret effects for target painters salvages and AOE mods. Please tell me you are going to work on them on the next update.

Hastrin
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:49:00 - [49]
 

very nice dev blog :)

Minsc
Gallente
Alpha Empire
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:51:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Elsa Nietchize
Great work on this. Looks absolutely beautiful.
any word on when you guys are gunna balance hybrids?
or nerf supers?


I'm sure the art department plans to get right on balancing hybrids and supers, right after they complete a few courses on programming. Rolling Eyes

Cade Windstalker
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:04:00 - [51]
 

Fantastic job, can't wait to see the turrets in game!

By the way, you were right to leave recoil on lasers, any laser applying enough energy to a target to do significant damage would have as much or more recoil than the equivalent projectile weapon. Good old e=mc^2 states that light leaving an object imparts a force relative to the amount of energy the light contains.

Translation for anyone who doesn't speak physics: Laser guns pack one heck of a kick, Einstein said so.

Before anyone jumps on it, I said "as much or more" because it depends on the attenuation rate of the beam vs the energy lost by the projectile over its travel distance. The reason you never hear about lasers having recoil is because the only ones big enough to have recoil are also, right now, so big they have to have their own building.

Originally by: Minsc
Originally by: Elsa Nietchize
Great work on this. Looks absolutely beautiful.
any word on when you guys are gunna balance hybrids?
or nerf supers?


I'm sure the art department plans to get right on balancing hybrids and supers, right after they complete a few courses on programming. Rolling Eyes


Just wanted to point out, you don't have to know much or any programming to be a game balance designer or tester.

That said, my railguns really want some love >.> Very Happy

Ancy Denaries
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:04:00 - [52]
 

One word: HAWT.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:06:00 - [53]
 

Very cool. Cool

skye orionis
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:11:00 - [54]
 

indeed keep the art department doing artsy things, missile launchers and drone deploying would be nice, but having improved weapons fire, how about working on weapon hits. Weapons hitting another ship tend to all hit in exactly the same boring place every time...

Weapons fire checklist:
* Hit multiple spots on the hull
* Visible shield interaction on ships with shields, the weapons fire should stop just outside the hull and deliver a nice flash of shield energy (blue when the shields are full and fading to red when the shields are about to go)
* Missed shots shouldn't look like they hit
* Autocannons and pulse lasers should strafe across the targets hull

Then of course... it would be great if the art people could come up with a way to visibly show armour damage. (And while I personally will be disabling CQ for immersion reasons, I'm sure it would be nice to bask in the glow of your burning ship from the hangar observation balcony, after you dock with a sliver of structure left)

Kiyl
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:13:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Second the motion for missile love. I recommend looking at '80s Anime for inspiration about how missiles should fly around the battlefield.

IMHO, it is totally OK if the client shows the missiles in a different position from where the server thinks the missiles are, as long as the two locations converge over time (hopefully in an insane set of corkscrews). Any discrepancies due to smartbombs and defender missiles will get lost in the fog of war, and you can just launch the missiles directly out of fixed tubes.

All the cute computations can be done on the client.


Thats already in the game, ever seen a Leviathans DD :P

Eraggan Sadarr
Comply Or Die
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:14:00 - [56]
 

It has been mentioned before that missiles would need much more work to get real launchers...

I still feel that launchers should have been a priority.
I mean....they don't exist. At least turrets did.

I'm disappointed at CCP's prioritizing.

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:15:00 - [57]
 

So much awesome Surprised

P.S.: Does this mean on certain ships the turrets will be moved?
On ships such as the Hyperion, the turret placement isn't very pleasant to see when compared to ships such as the Ferox.
The Hyperion and similar turret layout ships would benefit quite a bit from moving the turret placements more equally across the ship.

Tommy Blue
Black Lance
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:19:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Tommy Blue on 21/06/2011 18:19:02
I think you could add some really cool gameplay additions with the introduction of these new turrets.


This could tie into high sec where if you deploy your weapons you are flagged on grid as being a possible danger, could even take it a step farther to not allow guns to be deployed in empire for an extended amount of time. If you deploy your guns in 1.0 you get a X second timer to offline your guns before concord gets to play with you. That timer could go down from a relatively short amount of time in 1.0 to a long time in 0.5. Of course you could still insta **** in empire, but it would become progressively harder as you went to higher sec. Of course exceptions would be made so that if you are in a war dec and an enemy is on grid/in local you are allowed to online your guns.

I'll bet there are flaws in this system but I think something along those lines would be cool to have.
--> I think having a button/choice of when to online your guns is important.

Daesis Wrack
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:36:00 - [59]
 

Look at the fanboy buttkissing going on in this thread.

Turrets are about 1-2 meters in size, and EVE is played on a size scale of 1-100 kilometers. We just don't see the turrets. Hell, we rarely see the ships, just brackets.

Please make graphics and usability improvements to brackets and the overview, not something we only see when zoomed in to the point where we're not playing the game. Thanks.

Aeril Malkyre
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:38:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Tommy Blue
This could tie into high sec where if you deploy your weapons you are flagged on grid as being a possible danger

Would make it hard to fight belt rats ;)

Originally by: Tommy Blue
--> I think having a button/choice of when to online your guns is important.

Heartily agree. I'd much prefer a bit more elegant system than warp popping. But it'll do for now.


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