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daddys helper
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:30:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Jaxemont
Originally by: Azure Moonlight
Why am I under the impression most players never tried to fit&fly an unscannable ship?
You act as if getting one in the first place was the easiest thing ever and once you had it you were invincible in low sec space or generally in Eve.

Get some facts first ;)

Why do you act as if being unprobable was a feature and not a bug? CCP has mentioned that it was not an intended feature of scanning, and now the exploit is fixed.

Get some facts first ;)

Just because it wasn't easy to pull off doesn't justify the existence of the exploit.


I love how you call it an exploit and tell the other guys to get some facts first ugh

ALTOTHEIX
Advocates of Sin
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:32:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Edited by: Tammarr on 21/06/2011 00:31:54
If whats on sisi is coming to tq...

http://clip2net.com/clip/m73594/1308615855-clip-397kb.jpg

So yeah, full virtue set, covert ops lvl5, regular expanded launcher, sister probes....
two eccm on a loki active and I can't get a hit with virtues.
Note, this is not even near sensor strength to be unprobable on tranq right now, 107 points sensor strength to 130 sig radius, I should need uptowards 120 sensor strength to be unprobable on tranq right now. but on sisi...

edit note:
Not a sisters launcher, 2xscanstrength rigs, cheetah, and I apparently dont have acquisition lvl5 on sisi. So thats another 20% probe sensor strength, might do the trick ^^

edit:
With 4xeccm and 210 points of strength to 130 sig radius, I get 60.23%
With 3xeccm and 165.6 strength to 130 sig I also get 60.23%

So, in theory with the additional implants non virute strength implant whatever it is called, a sisters launcher and actually lvl5 aquisition, it'll be doable I guess =)




hmm if this is the case then its really not so bad for using gang booster (out of pos)...but have to be more vigilant and not go afk long periods.

The Pirates/PVPers who have the unoprobable setups are also the ones easily capable of finding other unprobable ships since most of us that run these setups have excellent probing skills. so all in all, its the missioners (carebears) who got screwed the most on this one and I wholeheartedly support that.


MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:36:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Ineka
Come on CCP tell us that those can't-scan-me-Tengubears will die right after this patch!
Best change so far YARRRR!!
A few will die, yes. But then they will quietly retreat back to hi sec, as you can only get burnt so many times before you run out of isk. What will remain the same are the pirate tormented whines on how lo sec is empty and how there's nothing to shoot.


ALTOTHEIX
Advocates of Sin
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:40:00 - [124]
 

Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 14:54:38
Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 14:47:21
Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 14:41:31
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Ineka
Come on CCP tell us that those can't-scan-me-Tengubears will die right after this patch!
Best change so far YARRRR!!
A few will die, yes. But then they will quietly retreat back to hi sec, as you can only get burnt so many times before you run out of isk. What will remain the same are the pirate tormented whines on how lo sec is empty and how there's nothing to shoot.




your statement doesn't make a lot of sense. The missioners who come in unprobbables to low sec/ null to mission aren't catcheable(sic) anyway so how will we be affected if they stop coming at all?

ps: the'll continue to come anyway. I guarantee it. and now we can catch them.

Jaxemont
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:42:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: daddys helper
Originally by: Jaxemont
Originally by: Azure Moonlight
Why am I under the impression most players never tried to fit&fly an unscannable ship?
You act as if getting one in the first place was the easiest thing ever and once you had it you were invincible in low sec space or generally in Eve.

Get some facts first ;)

Why do you act as if being unprobable was a feature and not a bug? CCP has mentioned that it was not an intended feature of scanning, and now the exploit is fixed.

Get some facts first ;)

Just because it wasn't easy to pull off doesn't justify the existence of the exploit.


I love how you call it an exploit and tell the other guys to get some facts first ugh

I said get some facts, not all of them! Only get the ones that reinforce my way of thinking. Duh.

By the way, I'm glad I could share some love with people on the interwebs. <3

(Yeah, I don't know why I thought that posting would do anything. I'm going back to loitering and watching the whines. Have fun thinking that CCP will listen to your posts. o/ )

Narisa Bithon
Caldari
The Motley Crew Reborn
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:44:00 - [126]
 

Edited by: Narisa Bithon on 21/06/2011 14:44:22
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

(The ability to create an unprobeable fit has always been an anomaly with the scanning system, and the opportunity came up to close the loophole while doing some related work. There are specific modules to make you unfindable in space - ie cloaks - and they have specific restrictions and drawbacks to balance this out. We're aware that making this change will make certain otherwise-legitimate activities significantly less viable, but most of the ones we're aware of really need to be fixed properly down the road rather than band-aided in this way, and in the meantime we're sufficiently uncomfortable with the subversion of intended mechanics that such workarounds require that on balance we don't feel they're good reason to keep this loophole open. Sorry.)


any chance ye would make the t3 covert subsytem use the same slot as the interdiction nullifer slot so one OR the other can be fitted at any one time to eliminate thise seriously game breaking mechanic

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:46:00 - [127]
 

Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 14:46:06
Originally by: Jaxemont

I said get some facts, not all of them! Only get the ones that reinforce my way of thinking. Duh.

By the way, I'm glad I could share some love with people on the interwebs. <3

(Yeah, I don't know why I thought that posting would do anything. I'm going back to loitering and watching the whines. Have fun thinking that CCP will listen to your posts. o/ )


Maybe you should get some facts right, it wasn't always deemed a "exploit" Fail more ******

Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:49:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Mister Rocknrolla on 21/06/2011 14:49:29

Reading fail on my part.


Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:53:00 - [129]
 

Outstanding! I am SO happy about this change.

No more AFK T3 fleet boosters on pickup fleets in the "gank" systems. Now you'll have to actually pilot the bloody thing or do without your bonuses.

Long overdue. Superb change.

Ophelia Allover
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:10:00 - [130]
 

I lived in stain for a decent amount of time, and made ******ed amounts of isk with a very scannable nighthawk that I never lost for 3 reasons. Intel channels, local awareness, and rediculous amounts of safespots per system I isked in.

For all the whiners out there. You can make money in unprobable ships, it is very easy. I did it in expensive ships. (Nighthawks are expensive enough)

The idiots claiming that NPC null sec is impossible to make money in are just idiots that don't know how to pay attention to information that everyone should already have available to them. Also, t2 fit your ships so that you dont lose multi billion isk ships when you die.

And don't tell me the whole go hard or go home thing. If you want to go hard, take a maurader into pvp, or regularly take machs, vindis, or Bhaalgorns into pvp.

ALTOTHEIX
Advocates of Sin
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:29:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Ophelia Allover
I lived in stain for a decent amount of time, and made ******ed amounts of isk with a very scannable nighthawk that I never lost for 3 reasons. Intel channels, local awareness, and rediculous amounts of safespots per system I isked in.

For all the whiners out there. You can make money in unprobable ships, it is very easy. I did it in expensive ships. (Nighthawks are expensive enough)

The idiots claiming that NPC null sec is impossible to make money in are just idiots that don't know how to pay attention to information that everyone should already have available to them. Also, t2 fit your ships so that you dont lose multi billion isk ships when you die.

And don't tell me the whole go hard or go home thing. If you want to go hard, take a maurader into pvp, or regularly take machs, vindis, or Bhaalgorns into pvp.


right on

Dace Kaveira
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:31:00 - [132]
 


Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:33:00 - [133]
 

Can't i do Exploration in Enemy Space (and it always end in Enemy Space) in my Tengu/Stealth Bomber Combo anymore.
CCP you have stolen my fun Rolling Eyes

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:33:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 15:37:25


Originally by: Ophelia Allover
I lived in stain for a decent amount of time, and made ******ed amounts of isk with a very scannable nighthawk that I never lost for 3 reasons. Intel channels, local awareness, and rediculous amounts of safespots per system I isked in.

For all the whiners out there. You can make money in unprobable ships, it is very easy. I did it in expensive ships. (Nighthawks are expensive enough)

The idiots claiming that NPC null sec is impossible to make money in are just idiots that don't know how to pay attention to information that everyone should already have available to them. Also, t2 fit your ships so that you dont lose multi billion isk ships when you die.

And don't tell me the whole go hard or go home thing. If you want to go hard, take a maurader into pvp, or regularly take machs, vindis, or Bhaalgorns into pvp.


So having 3 alliances red to us makes things as simple as having tons of safespots and watching dscan lol ok, think about it for a minute, please use brain, think, do it, do it, ok so you finally realize that there could, just could be 2 or more scrub reds in system cloaked with probes out, so now i should spend over an hour on a mission that would normally take me 10minutes, yes you are right, i should just fly a nighthawk and loose out on a ton of cash because you make perfect logic *inserts sarcasm*

Long story short, it will now be better isk per hour to farm 4's in HS in a drake then it will doing 4's in 0.0npc space, in a pimped tengu that is charlies point.
And trust me, charlie does surf.

Miss Rabblt
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:42:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Sarmatiko
Edited by: Sarmatiko on 20/06/2011 23:12:13
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Did you also make it easier to find probes?

Direct scan. Use it. And don't sleep on the mission while flying your unprobable-in-the-past Tengu.
I was able to hunt and do some missions on scannable battleship in lively low-sec system. When you see probes you warp out or die.


well. drop a cheap probes and go for your own business. return in 1 hour and drop next package. And laugh at person who is loosing time bonus from mission, then loosing hope to finish it today..... nice job!

Grant Smith
Malum.
Darklings
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:45:00 - [136]
 

Piracy just got better. Griefing just got better. Thankyou CCP. Even just a win over the forums is enough, but preventing lol_nubs from evading vet's is much more satisfactory. YARRRR!!


And yeah.... use dscan. Laughing

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:45:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 15:46:50
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Sarmatiko
Edited by: Sarmatiko on 20/06/2011 23:12:13
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Did you also make it easier to find probes?

Direct scan. Use it. And don't sleep on the mission while flying your unprobable-in-the-past Tengu.
I was able to hunt and do some missions on scannable battleship in lively low-sec system. When you see probes you warp out or die.


well. drop a cheap probes and go for your own business. return in 1 hour and drop next package. And laugh at person who is loosing time bonus from mission, then loosing hope to finish it today..... nice job!


Excatly, and having so much red in our system right now i can only imagine how many of them will do just this, its a load of bollox and all the idiots saying *oh CCP i love this new change, gets rid of more bears* it's only going to move them "bears" back to highsec meaning less pvp and fancy tengu's to kill. go figure people support the change. Then again, the whole unprobable command ship t3 was lame and that is a good change.

Ghurthe
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:46:00 - [138]
 

Originally by: Grant Smith
Piracy just got better. Griefing just got better. Thankyou CCP. Even just a win over the forums is enough, but preventing lol_nubs from evading vet's is much more satisfactory. YARRRR!!


And yeah.... use dscan. Laughing


I'm just glad I have nearly perfect scanning skills and the implants too =D

Grant Smith
Malum.
Darklings
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:49:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Da Gooch
Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 15:46:50
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Sarmatiko
Edited by: Sarmatiko on 20/06/2011 23:12:13
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Did you also make it easier to find probes?

Direct scan. Use it. And don't sleep on the mission while flying your unprobable-in-the-past Tengu.
I was able to hunt and do some missions on scannable battleship in lively low-sec system. When you see probes you warp out or die.


well. drop a cheap probes and go for your own business. return in 1 hour and drop next package. And laugh at person who is loosing time bonus from mission, then loosing hope to finish it today..... nice job!


Excatly, and having so much red in our system right now i can only imagine how many of them will do just this, its a load of bollox and all the idiots saying *oh CCP i love this new change, gets rid of more bears* it's only going to move them "bears" back to highsec meaning less pvp and fancy tengu's to kill. go figure people support the change. Then again, the whole unprobable command ship t3 was lame and that is a good change.


Do kindly hush ya mush good sir.

That is all.

ALTOTHEIX
Advocates of Sin
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:49:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Da Gooch
Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 15:46:50
Originally by: Miss Rabblt
Originally by: Sarmatiko
Edited by: Sarmatiko on 20/06/2011 23:12:13
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Did you also make it easier to find probes?

Direct scan. Use it. And don't sleep on the mission while flying your unprobable-in-the-past Tengu.
I was able to hunt and do some missions on scannable battleship in lively low-sec system. When you see probes you warp out or die.


well. drop a cheap probes and go for your own business. return in 1 hour and drop next package. And laugh at person who is loosing time bonus from mission, then loosing hope to finish it today..... nice job!


Excatly, and having so much red in our system right now i can only imagine how many of them will do just this, its a load of bollox and all the idiots saying *oh CCP i love this new change, gets rid of more bears* it's only going to move them "bears" back to highsec meaning less pvp and fancy tengu's to kill. go figure people support the change. Then again, the whole unprobable command ship t3 was lame and that is a good change.



listen to you man. you want to be untouchable and suffer NO RISK going to low sec/null sec. Grow a sac or stay in high sec, the land of risk averse bears. when you go to low security space or null you will have to take a risk doing so.. that was the intention all along.

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:54:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 15:56:48
Originally by: ALTOTHEIX


listen to you man. you want to be untouchable and suffer NO RISK going to low sec/null sec. Grow a sac or stay in high sec, the land of risk averse bears. when you go to low security space or null you will have to take a risk doing so.. that was the intention all along.


I actually live in WH space to make my isk, so no i dont want the above, infact i havent done a lvl 4 in about 6 months give or take. I just don't like the restriction is all. Why most of you seem to not graps its yet another gimp is beyond me, i,ll revert back to one of my earlier posts, you must make income in sov space which is just lol anyways or in highsec, go figure, and to the other moron, i wont hush it, i pay my $15 a month just like you, so go **** yourself.

Then again eve is full of bad boi griefing *******s who want nothing more then to make themselves feel better after the leave school from getting bullied all day, it's cute.

ALTOTHEIX
Advocates of Sin
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:59:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Da Gooch
Edited by: Da Gooch on 21/06/2011 15:54:45
Originally by: ALTOTHEIX


listen to you man. you want to be untouchable and suffer NO RISK going to low sec/null sec. Grow a sac or stay in high sec, the land of risk averse bears. when you go to low security space or null you will have to take a risk doing so.. that was the intention all along.


I actually live in WH space to make my isk, so no i dont want the above, infact i havent done a lvl 4 in about 6 months give or take. I just don't like the restriction is all. Why most of you seem to not graps its yet another gimp is beyond me, i,ll revert back to one of my earlier posts, you must make income in sov space which is just lol anyways or in highsec, go figure, and to the other moron, i wont hush it, i pay my $15 a month just like so, so go **** yourself.


I am literally 2 days away from having my all lvl 5 ldrship alt into a what was planned to be unprobable bonusing loki. and now that's been hampered by this news. Believe me I was dismayed when I first read the patch notes.

now I cant leave him afk and will have to constantly check d-scan. I cant be lazy about it. Thats the big thing about this change.. no more easy mode with unprobable T3s. We must adapt or die.

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:59:00 - [143]
 

Been a while since I read such a pleasant sounding line in patch notes. Turns out CCP still have reasonable people working for them after all. Razz

Viribus
Broski Enterprises
Elite Space Guild
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:59:00 - [144]
 

Well, this is idiotic.

Firstly, it makes certain fleetcomps, namely AHACs, much less viable, if not impossible to do feasibly. Having skirmish links of any kind in an armor fleet is suddenly quite difficult.

Secondly, fast-moving nano gangs are hamstrung by having to keep pace with disgustingly slow Fleet Command Ships, since it's suicide to bring a boosting-fit T3 on-grid.

Thirdly, it's a gigantic nerf to low- and null-sec missioning, as though there weren't enough reasons to mission in highsec over low or null.

Finally, it gives a huge, disproportionate advantage to defending fleets (as though they didn't have enough advantages already) by being able to put all the bonuses they want safely inside POS shields, while attackers have to deal with

A) command ships which often don't mesh with certain fleet comps (vultures in nano gangs, claymores in ahac fleets, claymores having a pretty crap buffer tank in any case, etc.)
B) T3s which lose their bonuses every time they warp between rolling safes because they'll get probed down before they can even drop out of warp, or
C) No bonuses at all

The un-probeable mechanic was kinda dumb but at least it worked and had its disadvantages (namely, gimping every other aspect of the ship's fit). CCP has, by removing it they've made a hell of a lot more work for themselves, being now obligated to buff null and lowsec missioning in a huge way (to offset the increased risk), buffing the T3 boosting subsystem, or even introducing a greater variety of bonus-giving ships altogether.

But, knowing CCP, they'll probably **** all that up too. Congrats on opening a gigantic can of balance-worms

daddys helper
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:00:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: ALTOTHEIX

Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Ineka
Come on CCP tell us that those can't-scan-me-Tengubears will die right after this patch!
Best change so far YARRRR!!
A few will die, yes. But then they will quietly retreat back to hi sec, as you can only get burnt so many times before you run out of isk. What will remain the same are the pirate tormented whines on how lo sec is empty and how there's nothing to shoot.




your statement doesn't make a lot of sense. The missioners who come in unprobbables to low sec/ null to mission aren't catcheable(sic) anyway so how will we be affected if they stop coming at all?

ps: the'll continue to come anyway. I guarantee it. and now we can catch them.


not catchable? do they just suddenly materialize at the mission site?
or are you thinking that a T3 with covops & nullifier can fit to be unprobable and still retain enough dps to take out a shuttle?

think before you post, just because you can't get them at the site doesn't mean you can't get them going to the site.

I totally missed the GWL issue here, and yes if unprobable was an afk win button for those setups then it should get the nerf, if it was solely pertaining to mission runners I didn't think it was worthy of priority nerfing.

still and all, it wont really affect mission runner traffic that much, bears will adapt and they'll still get molested on gates and stations, and now in missions too.

ALTOTHEIX
Advocates of Sin
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:04:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 16:04:22
Originally by: daddys helper


not catchable? do they just suddenly materialize at the mission site?
or are you thinking that a T3 with covops & nullifier can fit to be unprobable and still retain enough dps to take out a shuttle?

think before you post, just because you can't get them at the site doesn't mean you can't get them going to the site.

I totally missed the GWL issue here, and yes if unprobable was an afk win button for those setups then it should get the nerf, if it was solely pertaining to mission runners I didn't think it was worthy of priority nerfing.

still and all, it wont really affect mission runner traffic that much, bears will adapt and they'll still get molested on gates and stations, and now in missions too.


you're absolutely right about them being catcheable while en route to said missions. I killed plenty of them :) I just didnt go that in depth in my retort, sorry boss.


Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:04:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: ALTOTHEIX


I am literally 2 days away from having my all lvl 5 ldrship alt into a what was planned to be unprobable bonusing loki. and now that's been hampered by this news. Believe me I was dismayed when I first read the patch notes.

now I cant leave him afk and will have to constantly check d-scan. I cant be lazy about it. Thats the big thing about this change.. no more easy mode with unprobable T3s. We must adapt or die.


Well im not against the nerf to the whole T3 Command ship deal, i believe a command ship should have it's role and our alliance use command ships all the time, we just never bothered with the whole unprobable loki stuff.
But the game is just turning into hello kitty, i see what CCP are doing here and it's stereo type of all games that begin to grow larger and larger, they are adjusting it for the noobs, just like world of warcraft, turning what was once a good game into hello kitty crap.. lets be honest here, who really spent all there time trying to scan down and catch t3 tengu's?? if you did you're probobly one of them silly lowsec scrub griefers, heck even battleclinic can support that, the ranked 1 guy has some of the worst killmails in eve.
I don't agree a 30day skilled scrub should be able to scan down an unproable tengu, but hey, someone said earlier, now the lol noobs cant evade the vets, id love to know what "vet's" went out of there way to catch such ships in the first place other then the (lowsec griefing tards) and i would never class them as vets, all they are is narrow minded *******s

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:11:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: daddys helper
not catchable? do they just suddenly materialize at the mission site?
or are you thinking that a T3 with covops & nullifier can fit to be unprobable and still retain enough dps to take out a shuttle?


How can anyone be that stupid as to run a mission with both covops and nullifier subsystem and not use the fact that npc space has stations where you can dock and refit? But ofc nothing, not even unprobable t3, can be that much overpowered to compensate for their user's total absence of intelligence.

I've used unprobable t3 for 100% safe and very efficient missioning in both low sec and 0.0 quite a bit and I'm really happy about this change. It's probably the one good thing coming with this patch and it is in fact rather awesome.

Robot Robot
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:17:00 - [149]
 

I don't understand all you people who keep saying things like "Now there will be no way to make isk in low sec or null."

I have spent a LOT of time doing ratting and exploration solo in low and npc 0.0, flying almost exclusively battlecruisers with drones, microwarpdrives and no ECCM. So, pretty probeable.

I lose ships but, by simply being careful, I easily earn 500m isk for every BC I lose. Obviously, if those were faction fit T3s I was losing, then the budget wouldn't balance, but is that such a bad thing?

This change doesn't mean you can't make money in low/null. It means you can't (easily) make money flying billion isk ships in nullsec without friends.

That sounds fine to me.

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:18:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: HeIIfire11 on 21/06/2011 16:19:27
Originally by: ALTOTHEIX
Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 14:54:38
Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 14:47:21
Edited by: ALTOTHEIX on 21/06/2011 14:41:31
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Ineka
Come on CCP tell us that those can't-scan-me-Tengubears will die right after this patch!
Best change so far YARRRR!!
A few will die, yes. But then they will quietly retreat back to hi sec, as you can only get burnt so many times before you run out of isk. What will remain the same are the pirate tormented whines on how lo sec is empty and how there's nothing to shoot.




your statement doesn't make a lot of sense. The missioners who come in unprobbables to low sec/ null to mission aren't catcheable(sic) anyway so how will we be affected if they stop coming at all?

ps: the'll continue to come anyway. I guarantee it. and now we can catch them.


And how are you affected by either option?

0/10 for the fail troll attemptLaughing And you cant catch what isn't there btw.


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