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Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:01:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Mizar Alcor
Priceless...

After reading Jab after Jab this popped up and I pee'd a little laughing...Embarassed

It really was getting too pathetic Laughing

Assaj Ventress
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:41:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 21/06/2011 05:16:10
Originally by: Darth Vapour
Quick test on sisi:

-A stealth bomber with 3 ECCM II (90+ sensor strength vs 39 sig) was probable with 8 faction probes, max skills, bonus ship and a virtue set
-After unplugging the virtues and with only two ECCM active it went down to a 76% result with 8 probes

Investing in Virtue implants will be required to get ships with currently unprobable setups.

Thanks for the heads-up.

90/39, that's not the sort of ratio one can get on a Tengu. :) Usually it's more like 146/150 (was still unprobable); or 229/150, if you go real extreme. So, I'll have to figure out how the old ratios work out for a Tengu exactly.

CCP Veritas mentioned that they capped the sensor strength/sig radius ratio, so 90/39 capped and 146/150 capped might be pretty close)

Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:45:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Desert Ice78
Greyscale you ****.

Fail pvp whiners "Eve is too hard, make it better CCP" win again.

Starting to notice a pattern here.


Unless I am mistaken, the change makes it hard as opposed to impossible. What are you whining about?

Prince of Nigeria
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:53:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

(The ability to create an unprobeable fit has always been an anomaly with the scanning system, and the opportunity came up to close the loophole while doing some related work. There are specific modules to make you unfindable in space - ie cloaks - and they have specific restrictions and drawbacks to balance this out. We're aware that making this change will make certain otherwise-legitimate activities significantly less viable, but most of the ones we're aware of really need to be fixed properly down the road rather than band-aided in this way, and in the meantime we're sufficiently uncomfortable with the subversion of intended mechanics that such workarounds require that on balance we don't feel they're good reason to keep this loophole open. Sorry.)

And is using an alt to web your own freighter, so it will go to near insta-warp, a loophole too? Point being, why can't you folks simply celebrate people's inventiveness and leave it at that? Every time people find good ways to defend themselves, along comes CCP with a nerfbat!

And balance? Don't make me laugh. Did you also make it easier to find probes? Did you also do something about high-sec suicide ganking insurance payouts? Of course not. Because PvP is really the only thing you devs want at heart (and who can blame you? You can just pick unlimited gear and isk from the database).

Well, I gotta hand it to you: you did strike a big blow for piracy today. I'm sure you made a lot of people happy.


If you want PvE, you're playing the wrong game.

No, this isn't an insult. It's the ****ing truth. This is EVE. This game was designed for PVP. There's plenty of hard-as-nails PVE MMO's out there. FFXI, for instance, has some good ideas and mechanics despite how outdated it is.

Cebraio
Posted - 2011.06.21 10:24:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

(The ability to create an unprobeable fit has always been an anomaly with the scanning system, and the opportunity came up to close the loophole while doing some related work. There are specific modules to make you unfindable in space - ie cloaks - and they have specific restrictions and drawbacks to balance this out. We're aware that making this change will make certain otherwise-legitimate activities significantly less viable, but most of the ones we're aware of really need to be fixed properly down the road rather than band-aided in this way, and in the meantime we're sufficiently uncomfortable with the subversion of intended mechanics that such workarounds require that on balance we don't feel they're good reason to keep this loophole open. Sorry.)


You DO know that becoming unprobable also requires/d some efforts and has drawbacks, right? Namely fitting two modules that are otherwise pretty useless for PVE and using a full set of expensive implants. Just saying.

Sarmatiko
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:05:00 - [96]
 

What about the other change:
Quote:
NPCs will now correctly aggress a decloaking ship

Does it mean that CCP closed another loophole and stealth bombers now can't do lvl 5 missions?

brute killer
GRAIL SEEKERS
P I R A T E S
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:11:00 - [97]
 

This is truly a great change,

However

Low sec will soon be a collection of ghost system, a barren waste with no reason to enter it.

Give low sec a boost ! especially as I can not spin my ship in station anymore lol

Lucilla Giulia
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:18:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


rofl this made my "withouth eve i can't live" day Very Happy

Psihius
Caldari
Anarchist Dawn
U N K N O W N
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:21:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: brute killer
This is truly a great change,

However

Low sec will soon be a collection of ghost system, a barren waste with no reason to enter it.

Give low sec a boost ! especially as I can not spin my ship in station anymore lol


My stealth bomber will be very happy to run level 5 with no local present :D

IskPlease
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:23:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 21/06/2011 04:23:39
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

(The ability to create an unprobeable fit has always been an anomaly with the scanning system, and the opportunity came up to close the loophole while doing some related work. There are specific modules to make you unfindable in space - ie cloaks - and they have specific restrictions and drawbacks to balance this out. We're aware that making this change will make certain otherwise-legitimate activities significantly less viable, but most of the ones we're aware of really need to be fixed properly down the road rather than band-aided in this way, and in the meantime we're sufficiently uncomfortable with the subversion of intended mechanics that such workarounds require that on balance we don't feel they're good reason to keep this loophole open. Sorry.)

sandbox...

next kill MWD + cloak?

If they decided unprobeability was a loophole and not a feature then they'd be huge hypocrites not to get rid of the MWD+cloak thing. Seeing as ships with covert ops cloaks are quite gimped, why are people able to slap a plain cloak on a ship and get the same benefits in avoiding pvp?!

Mr R4nd0m
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:24:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Corina's Bodyguard
I agree. Also means botters can be hunted down if they don't fit a cloak.


Lol since when do they never fit a cloak?

Bruno Bourque
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:32:00 - [102]
 

Patch after patch we are seeing "features" discovered by players being "fixed".

Eve is meant to be a sandbox, what kind of sandbox is it if you are forcing people to play it the way YOU want it to be played?

Yes I run a previously unscanable Tengu for missions, it pays for my PvP. Im not going to stop using it, it just means I have to watch for probes again.

The point is CCP goes on about how players make the story, its a sandbox. Truth is, it becomes less of a sandbox every time something like this gets "fixed".

I read through the patch notes and for me, a PvP'er living in NPC 0.0 space, I have lost something and gained nothing for this 800 Meg download. Walking in stations, its going to be used for 2 minutes by most of the Eve Community. I just hope I can turn it off.

Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:54:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Azure Moonlight on 21/06/2011 11:55:38
I was really looking forward to this patch, now reading this I ****in hate it.
Making a ship unscannable was a great feature of Eve if you wanted to explore low-sec or be somewhat secure from suicide ganking in mission hubs (which by the way I consider a far more broken thing than anything else)
Eve being a PvP game might actually be true for some players, but a lot more casual players enjoy a laid-back after work missioning, doing industry jobs, PI and all the other great futures. Exploring the more dangerous places of Eve without actually engaging in player versus player (or more likely me against a roaming gang I wont ever stand a chance against as a casual player) I counted as thrilling and an interesting adventure.

With the ability to make one ship unscannable you increased in a smart way your survivability in hostile regions which made the game more thrilling.
Also note how hard it is to fit an unscannable ship and what drawbacks in terms of firepower or tanking you will experience. Having an unscannable ship often resulted in a player working harder and being smarter than you normally had to, only to be somehow secure from ganking, roaming gangs and general griefplay.

Besides you realize doing missions in low sec still requires you to dock/undock and use jump gates. And to find a ratting ship you use the onboard scanner.

So for everyone stating unscannable ships were a broken thing open for abuse, I say this: Killing this feature is a broken thing resulting in Eve being less complex, interesting and less open and rewarding for unique and smart playstyle.

Both thumbs down!

XJennieX
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:58:00 - [104]
 

i welcome this. now all LP i have stored is gonna get more valuable as people stop (almost) completely running lvl5 missions \0/ also some leet groups running unprobable bonus t3 ships and snipe machariels with eccm mods gets slap on the face. ugh

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 11:59:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Azure Moonlight
Eve being a PvP game might actually be true for some players, but a lot more casual players enjoy a laid-back after work missioning, doing industry jobs, PI and all the other great futures. Exploring the more dangerous places of Eve without actually engaging in player versus player (or more likely me against a roaming gang I wont ever stand a chance against as a casual player) I counted as thrilling and an interesting adventure.


Unless you pay me 1b ISK within 48 hours of Incarna going live, you can expect a wardec TBH.

Illwill Bill
Svea Crusaders
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:02:00 - [106]
 

While you're at it, fix jetcan mining.
/me hides.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:03:00 - [107]
 

First order of business tonight, scan down that AFK-[undesirable invididual] in his 'unprobable' tengu and pod seven kinds of [censored] out of him Twisted Evil

Next patch, counter for AFK cloakers ? ugh

Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:13:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps
Originally by: Azure Moonlight
Eve being a PvP game might actually be true for some players, but a lot more casual players enjoy a laid-back after work missioning, doing industry jobs, PI and all the other great futures. Exploring the more dangerous places of Eve without actually engaging in player versus player (or more likely me against a roaming gang I wont ever stand a chance against as a casual player) I counted as thrilling and an interesting adventure.


Unless you pay me 1b ISK within 48 hours of Incarna going live, you can expect a wardec TBH.


Better send me the wardec fee, its a char in training Laughing

XJennieX
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:15:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Psihius
Originally by: brute killer
This is truly a great change,

However

Low sec will soon be a collection of ghost system, a barren waste with no reason to enter it.

Give low sec a boost ! especially as I can not spin my ship in station anymore lol


My stealth bomber will be very happy to run level 5 with no local present :D


no it wont:

NPCs will now correctly aggress a decloaking ship

Ineka
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:16:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Sarmatiko
From Incarna patchnotes:
Quote:
It is no longer possible to set up a ship to be impervious to scanning while uncloaked.


Come on CCP tell us that those can't-scan-me-Tengubears will die right after this patch!
Best change so far YARRRR!!


They will just move in to high sec, brilliant.

You can start telling CCP how incapable you are to do a minimum work to find an improbable ship and kill him.
You can also start smashing you balls, if you have any witch I doubt, because now you have to return high sec grief noobs to feed you KB.

Idiot.

Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:16:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: XJennieX
Originally by: Psihius
Originally by: brute killer
This is truly a great change,

However

Low sec will soon be a collection of ghost system, a barren waste with no reason to enter it.

Give low sec a boost ! especially as I can not spin my ship in station anymore lol


My stealth bomber will be very happy to run level 5 with no local present :D


no it wont:

NPCs will now correctly aggress a decloaking ship


Now that was a thing that needed fixing, because it was clearly not a feature but a bug.

Laser Purification
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:34:00 - [112]
 


Glad it's changed. Unprobeable battleships sniping a gate at hundreds of K and fleet bonus carriers in safe spots were pretty lame.

Shandir
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.21 12:36:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Ineka
Rantrantrantrantrant

You seem mad. Why not relax and have a Quafe?

EyeCanHazNyx
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:20:00 - [114]
 

What?

You mean to tell me that there is now some Risk in low/nullsec?


NOT IN MY EVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Big shlong Johnson
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:20:00 - [115]
 

hah try exploiting lvl5 missions now with your unprobable tengus and bugged bombers. Twisted Evil

Azure Moonlight
Atomic Core Industries and Science
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:26:00 - [116]
 

Why am I under the impression most players never tried to fit&fly an unscannable ship?
You act as if getting one in the first place was the easiest thing ever and once you had it you were invincible in low sec space or generally in Eve.

Get some facts first ;)

Womanises Well
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:31:00 - [117]
 


Jaxemont
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:40:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Azure Moonlight
Why am I under the impression most players never tried to fit&fly an unscannable ship?
You act as if getting one in the first place was the easiest thing ever and once you had it you were invincible in low sec space or generally in Eve.

Get some facts first ;)

Why do you act as if being unprobable was a feature and not a bug? CCP has mentioned that it was not an intended feature of scanning, and now the exploit is fixed.

Get some facts first ;)

Just because it wasn't easy to pull off doesn't justify the existence of the exploit.

Global Comms
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:42:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: IskPlease


next kill MWD + cloak?
If they decided unprobeability was a loophole and not a feature then they'd be huge hypocrites not to get rid of the MWD+cloak thing. Seeing as ships with covert ops cloaks are quite gimped, why are people able to slap a plain cloak on a ship and get the same benefits in avoiding pvp?!


Beacuse CCP fail at coding and cannot fix the problem.

Jon Whayne
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:05:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Jon Whayne on 21/06/2011 14:20:27
First of all, I hate this change. But I feel so terribly ****ed about this, so that I guess I should give you guys a bit more details on this. After re-reading I feel even more carebarelike and edit my own post:

1) I do really dislike this change. Please let me carebare and laugh about f***king pirates trying to scan me down, bah!


2) I do dislike the way you put really drastic stuff in like what () - One sentence in a patchnote. Shame on you, who wrote that!

Gimme Whine. Please.


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