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Corpse Swallower
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:14:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

(The ability to create an unprobeable fit has always been an anomaly with the scanning system, and the opportunity came up to close the loophole while doing some related work. There are specific modules to make you unfindable in space - ie cloaks - and they have specific restrictions and drawbacks to balance this out. We're aware that making this change will make certain otherwise-legitimate activities significantly less viable, but most of the ones we're aware of really need to be fixed properly down the road rather than band-aided in this way, and in the meantime we're sufficiently uncomfortable with the subversion of intended mechanics that such workarounds require that on balance we don't feel they're good reason to keep this loophole open. Sorry.)

And is using an alt to web your own freighter, so it will go to near insta-warp, a loophole too? Point being, why can't you folks simply celebrate people's inventiveness and leave it at that? Every time people find good ways to defend themselves, along comes CCP with a nerfbat!

And balance? Don't make me laugh. Did you also make it easier to find probes? Did you also do something about high-sec suicide ganking insurance payouts? Of course not. Because PvP is really the only thing you devs want at heart (and who can blame you? You can just pick unlimited gear and isk from the database).

Well, I gotta hand it to you: you did strike a big blow for piracy today. I'm sure you made a lot of people happy.



↑ CAREBEAR ALERT

Somebody haul in some Fleet Size Tissues.

Font size reduced. Spitfire



This made me lol... Laughing

HeIIfire11
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:28:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Bologna Brains
Way to buff low-sec. /sarcasm off

Yeah, good for you on the sarcasm (if, at least, you weren't being sarcastic about the sarcasm). Because all those folks so gleefully enjoying this news sooner or later will release this just means far less people will now visit lowsec/nullsec.


This.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:28:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Corpse Swallower
This made me lol... Laughing

I'm sure it did. And there's no denying it even: CCP gave you guys a huge pirate victory today.

Cataca
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:58:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Corpse Swallower
This made me lol... Laughing

I'm sure it did. And there's no denying it even: CCP gave you guys a huge pirate victory today.


Wont it mean that the only guys in lowsec are the pirates again? Anyway, a dev response to the "will everyone now be able to scan everything" would be very neat.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:59:00 - [35]
 

Slightly more difficult to run gang boosters
Slightly few less ships we couldn't catch anyway in lowsec

End result: pff

SKUNK

Cancel Align NOW
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:06:00 - [36]
 

For 0.0: this will make high sp improbable camps very hard to set up.
For low sec: this will make mission running (level 5s) much harder.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:11:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.


Not very big compared to what?

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:11:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Bask Ilisk

It doesn't take much to alpha a marauder. Please don't try to discuss things that you are clueless about.


Are you ******ed? A Kronos with all skills at 0 has 30,000 EHP! Add in the bare minimum skills to be able to board it and it goes up. Add in skills that a pilot should have at a minimum and the number is really up there.

Show me 1 ship that can be flown in highsec (sub capital) that can do 30,000 alpha AFTER the base resists of a Kronos.


CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2011.06.21 00:14:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

Wouldn't this effectively mean that ANYBODY can scan anybody else's ship down even with minimal scanning skills ?


...I can't actually remember whether we capped the signature return or the base (radius/strength) value. I'll check in the morning.

Demon Azrakel
Gallente
Defiant..
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:15:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 21/06/2011 00:17:07
Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 21/06/2011 00:15:44
Edited by: Demon Azrakel on 21/06/2011 00:15:26
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Bask Ilisk

It doesn't take much to alpha a marauder. Please don't try to discuss things that you are clueless about.


Are you ******ed? A Kronos with all skills at 0 has 30,000 EHP! Add in the bare minimum skills to be able to board it and it goes up. Add in skills that a pilot should have at a minimum and the number is really up there.

Show me 1 ship that can be flown in highsec (sub capital) that can do 30,000 alpha AFTER the base resists of a Kronos.




EDIT (Forgot to add hilarity): Are you ******ed?

Bring friends much? It took 6 to pop a 75 bil nightmare...

http://www.evenews24.com/2011/02/23/promote-killboard-synergy-like-a-boss-undock-a-74-2-bil-pimp-mobile/

Bask Ilisk
Gallente
Death To Everyone But Us
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:21:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Bask Ilisk

It doesn't take much to alpha a marauder. Please don't try to discuss things that you are clueless about.


Are you ******ed? A Kronos with all skills at 0 has 30,000 EHP! Add in the bare minimum skills to be able to board it and it goes up. Add in skills that a pilot should have at a minimum and the number is really up there.

Show me 1 ship that can be flown in highsec (sub capital) that can do 30,000 alpha AFTER the base resists of a Kronos.




Oh dear, another one lacking smarts. Who said anything about doing it solo?

CCP Veritas

Posted - 2011.06.21 00:21:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
IIRC we just placed a minimum cap on the signal strength return you can get from a target. Don't remember off-hand what the exact number is, but it isn't very big.

Wouldn't this effectively mean that ANYBODY can scan anybody else's ship down even with minimal scanning skills ?


...I can't actually remember whether we capped the signature return or the base (radius/strength) value. I'll check in the morning.


Sig radius to scanner strength ratio is capped at a point that retains possibility of being scanned down. I believe you'll still find it quite hard to scan ships who have put effort into being difficult to scan.

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:22:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Tammarr on 21/06/2011 00:31:54
If whats on sisi is coming to tq...

http://clip2net.com/clip/m73594/1308615855-clip-397kb.jpg

So yeah, full virtue set, covert ops lvl5, regular expanded launcher, sister probes....
two eccm on a loki active and I can't get a hit with virtues.
Note, this is not even near sensor strength to be unprobable on tranq right now, 107 points sensor strength to 130 sig radius, I should need uptowards 120 sensor strength to be unprobable on tranq right now. but on sisi...

edit note:
Not a sisters launcher, 2xscanstrength rigs, cheetah, and I apparently dont have acquisition lvl5 on sisi. So thats another 20% probe sensor strength, might do the trick ^^

edit:
With 4xeccm and 210 points of strength to 130 sig radius, I get 60.23%
With 3xeccm and 165.6 strength to 130 sig I also get 60.23%

So, in theory with the additional implants non virute strength implant whatever it is called, a sisters launcher and actually lvl5 aquisition, it'll be doable I guess =)

Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:26:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Bask Ilisk

Who said anything about doing it solo?


Good point

But unless it's faction fit, probably not worth anything but lolz considering the number of ships needed.


CCP Veritas

Posted - 2011.06.21 00:38:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Tammarr
Edited by: Tammarr on 21/06/2011 00:31:54
If whats on sisi is coming to tq...

http://clip2net.com/clip/m73594/1308615855-clip-397kb.jpg

So yeah, full virtue set, covert ops lvl5, regular expanded launcher, sister probes....
two eccm on a loki active and I can't get a hit with virtues.
Note, this is not even near sensor strength to be unprobable on tranq right now, 107 points sensor strength to 130 sig radius, I should need uptowards 120 sensor strength to be unprobable on tranq right now. but on sisi...

edit note:
Not a sisters launcher, 2xscanstrength rigs, cheetah, and I apparently dont have acquisition lvl5 on sisi. So thats another 20% probe sensor strength, might do the trick ^^

edit:
With 4xeccm and 210 points of strength to 130 sig radius, I get 60.23%
With 3xeccm and 165.6 strength to 130 sig I also get 60.23%

So, in theory with the additional implants non virute strength implant whatever it is called, a sisters launcher and actually lvl5 aquisition, it'll be doable I guess =)



Try using more than 5 probes too.

Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams
The KWFL Republic
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:45:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Bask Ilisk

It doesn't take much to alpha a marauder. Please don't try to discuss things that you are clueless about.


Are you ******ed? A Kronos with all skills at 0 has 30,000 EHP! Add in the bare minimum skills to be able to board it and it goes up. Add in skills that a pilot should have at a minimum and the number is really up there.

Show me 1 ship that can be flown in highsec (sub capital) that can do 30,000 alpha AFTER the base resists of a Kronos.



Confirming that 30k EHP makes you an invincible superman of EVE, and that nothing bad can ever happen to you.

---

This change isn't great for all pirates btw, I enjoyed flying my main 'solo' in a gang with unprobeable booster T3 alts

Tammarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:48:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Tammarr on 21/06/2011 00:49:39
Ooooh...
...
http://clip2net.com/clip/m73594/1308617206-clip-354kb.jpg

Almost with 8 probes, max I can launch with astrometrics lvl5. Virtue set, non sisters launcher.
So arr, my virtue set and sisters launcher on tranq should get me some hits! Or my probe alignment might need some tweaking, only used 5( for symmetry and easy to aim center bubble ) in the past.



Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:49:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Frau Klaps on 21/06/2011 01:35:31
EDIT: Ignore this and read my next post down.

I'm willing to bet that these scanning changes are just going to be another kick in the teeth to people that specialised in this profession early, by making it even easier to scan stuff down. Even as it currently stands any moron can expect to find results with ridiculous ease.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:10:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Copine Callmeknau
Confirming that 30k EHP makes you an invincible superman of EVE, and that nothing bad can ever happen to you.
Nah, we have it on good authority that 20k EHP is enough as long as your resists are in the mid-70s range. In fact, it's better with 20k EHP than with 50k Razz

Harisdrop
Gallente
Vindicate and Deliverance
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:13:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ruze
Originally by: Rank
Because PvP is really the only thing you devs want at heart ....



I've known this from day one, years and years ago. EvE is PvP. Everything else is just fluff.


After 8 years this is the goal of EVE. Kill everything so everyone cries.

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:16:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: Barbie D0ll
Well there goes my plans for missioning in highsec in expensive ships, flying a tengu in highsec, doing expeditions in lowsec, and that narrows down my options to "fly cheap ships", or "go cloaky". and in either case I am still going to get ganked, thanks CCP!!!


You think somebody is going to alpha a Marurder?

lol


Ok Troll........... http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=13123036

Now **** off.

Fat Buddah
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:22:00 - [52]
 

I never understood why MY sensor strength had an effect on SOMEONE ELSE's scan result.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:25:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Fat Buddah
I never understood why MY sensor strength had an effect on SOMEONE ELSE's scan result.


The anti-scan reverse polarity do-hickey, shesh. Rolling Eyes

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:25:00 - [54]
 

Horrible change, makes any form of a decent income in 0.0 NPC space nadda to support pvp loss. O well CCP fail yet again.

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:32:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 22:46:50


This patch is a Ninja's paradise, I love it!




Because Ninja'ing and sitting in Rens talking **** have what in common again? Just failing to draw the connection I guess?

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:34:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Frau Klaps on 21/06/2011 01:35:02
Originally by: Frau Klaps
I'm willing to bet that these scanning changes are just going to be another kick in the teeth to people that specialised in this profession early, by making it even easier to scan stuff down. Even as it currently stands any moron can expect to find results with ridiculous ease.



After playing around... I actually like what they have done with scanning and with the balance of 'barely scannable' ships. I don't have any low skilled probing characters to test with but I'm guessing you can still run your off-grid links for short engagements but can't reliably go afk for long stretches of time.

It's still dumb that you can get off-grid links support and if they changed that it would make a massive improvement to small scale pvp. Despite the advantages given to skirmish gangs it is just as simple for blobs and camps to employ the same tactics. Force links back on grid and we will see more use of Fleet Command Ships.

Originally by: Da Gooch
Horrible change, makes any form of a decent income in 0.0 NPC space nadda to support pvp loss. O well CCP fail yet again.

Because no one could ever make isk in null until their ships became unprobable right? The only thing this is a nerf to is cowardice and laziness Rolling Eyes

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:42:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Frau Klaps
Edited by: Frau Klaps on 21/06/2011 01:35:02
Originally by: Frau Klaps
I'm willing to bet that these scanning changes are just going to be another kick in the teeth to people that specialised in this profession early, by making it even easier to scan stuff down. Even as it currently stands any moron can expect to find results with ridiculous ease.



After playing around... I actually like what they have done with scanning and with the balance of 'barely scannable' ships. I don't have any low skilled probing characters to test with but I'm guessing you can still run your off-grid links for short engagements but can't reliably go afk for long stretches of time.

It's still dumb that you can get off-grid links support and if they changed that it would make a massive improvement to small scale pvp. Despite the advantages given to skirmish gangs it is just as simple for blobs and camps to employ the same tactics. Force links back on grid and we will see more use of Fleet Command Ships.

Originally by: Da Gooch
Horrible change, makes any form of a decent income in 0.0 NPC space nadda to support pvp loss. O well CCP fail yet again.

Because no one could ever make isk in null until their ships became unprobable right? The only thing this is a nerf to is cowardice and laziness Rolling Eyes


Clearly you dont live in 0.0 npc space

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:52:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Da Gooch
Originally by: Da Gooch
Horrible change, makes any form of a decent income in 0.0 NPC space nadda to support pvp loss. O well CCP fail yet again.

Because no one could ever make isk in null until their ships became unprobable right? The only thing this is a nerf to is cowardice and laziness Rolling Eyes


Clearly you dont live in 0.0 npc space


Clearly you got too used to something you should never have had.

Mutant Caldari
Caldari
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.21 02:30:00 - [59]
 

Ah, the tears are incredibly delicious. This is incredible news for the people who actually support some balance, at the very least.

To all the carebear whiners, this game was intended to be a PvP game from day 1. Hopefully CCP has finally remembered this and is going to start making some patches that actually support PvP more than you itty bitty wittle carebears. Laughing

Da Gooch
Posted - 2011.06.21 02:46:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Mutant Caldari
Ah, the tears are incredibly delicious. This is incredible news for the people who actually support some balance, at the very least.

To all the carebear whiners, this game was intended to be a PvP game from day 1. Hopefully CCP has finally remembered this and is going to start making some patches that actually support PvP more than you itty bitty wittle carebears. Laughing


Yes because we all know you are nothing more then a 5mil SP scrub who is stuck in his drake. weeeeee


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