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Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:44:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.



Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:46:00 - [2]
 

All we to have is the evidence of the unintended results. That speaks volumes.


Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:47:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.

Sometimes you use realy strange expressions that the non-UK people don't really get, Miilla!

Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:47:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.





I really hope you get banned, 4 year olds have more patience.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:48:00 - [5]
 

I always did my best work writing BS the night before, it didn't work for science or math though.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:49:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:50:11
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.





I really hope you get banned, 4 year olds have more patience.



Oh I am patient, I'm not saying i want them now and I wont be playing eve until a day after patch day anyway, no hurry there.

What I am saying is, all this sounds all "last minute" for such an important deployment.

It just supprises me that there is, at least not very visible, good planning and execution.

Maybe it just looks that way, but I dono.




Apollo Gabriel
Mercatoris
Etherium Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:51:00 - [7]
 

In the past CCP has posted patch notes in advance then cut many things from the notes AFTER deployment. Documentation is always SLOW, the devs have their notes about what is done, but it is likely babble to us, it takes time to write things clearly.

In another thread CCP Navigator said s/he'd have more time to finish them if people quite their rumours.

AG

Hannibal Ord
Minmatar
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:51:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:50:11
Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.





I really hope you get banned, 4 year olds have more patience.



Oh I am patient, I'm not saying i want them now and I wont be playing eve until a day after patch day anyway, no hurry there.

What I am saying is, all this sounds all "last minute" for such an important deployment.

It just supprises me that there is, at least not very visible, good planning and execution.

Maybe it just looks that way, but I dono.






I'm holding out for big surprise Miila.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.20 20:54:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:55:50

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
In the past CCP has posted patch notes in advance then cut many things from the notes AFTER deployment. Documentation is always SLOW, the devs have their notes about what is done, but it is likely babble to us, it takes time to write things clearly.

In another thread CCP Navigator said s/he'd have more time to finish them if people quite their rumours.

AG


Well isn't their release management/doc writers collecting patch notes from the database that would have had that attribute on the changes/issues to be documented, then filtered out from that query.

That list of notes would have been growing all away along the development phase. there shouldnt be any supprises or thinking required really, just scrubbed for release.

Sounds kinda ad-hoc gung ho last minute "oh what did we put in there" kinda thing.


voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:14:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: voiddragon on 20/06/2011 21:14:41
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:55:50

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
In the past CCP has posted patch notes in advance then cut many things from the notes AFTER deployment. Documentation is always SLOW, the devs have their notes about what is done, but it is likely babble to us, it takes time to write things clearly.

In another thread CCP Navigator said s/he'd have more time to finish them if people quite their rumours.

AG


Well isn't their release management/doc writers collecting patch notes from the database that would have had that attribute on the changes/issues to be documented, then filtered out from that query.

That list of notes would have been growing all away along the development phase. there shouldnt be any supprises or thinking required really, just scrubbed for release.

Sounds kinda ad-hoc gung ho last minute "oh what did we put in there" kinda thing.




Have you ever developed software, Milla? You stopped posting in your rant about CCP licensing when I asked the same question regarding eve related software.

Raid'En
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.




that's why they don't like to give dates most of the time.
here they can't say it's reported to 1-3 days after as they advertised for this day since a while.
however i'm not sure they would have switched if it was not the case...

Zleon Leigh
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
In the past CCP has posted patch notes in advance then cut many things from the notes AFTER deployment. Documentation is always SLOW, the devs have their notes about what is done, but it is likely babble to us, it takes time to write things clearly.

In another thread CCP Navigator said s/he'd have more time to finish them if people quite their rumours.

AG


If they posted expectations and then actually met them ==> no rumors. Besides - all he's doing for the most of them is locking - it's not like he's actually replying with information.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:15:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: voiddragon
Edited by: voiddragon on 20/06/2011 21:14:41
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:55:50

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
In the past CCP has posted patch notes in advance then cut many things from the notes AFTER deployment. Documentation is always SLOW, the devs have their notes about what is done, but it is likely babble to us, it takes time to write things clearly.

In another thread CCP Navigator said s/he'd have more time to finish them if people quite their rumours.

AG


Well isn't their release management/doc writers collecting patch notes from the database that would have had that attribute on the changes/issues to be documented, then filtered out from that query.

That list of notes would have been growing all away along the development phase. there shouldnt be any supprises or thinking required really, just scrubbed for release.

Sounds kinda ad-hoc gung ho last minute "oh what did we put in there" kinda thing.




Have you ever developed software, Milla? You stopped posting in your rant about CCP licensing when I asked the same question regarding eve related software.


Because I don't owe you any explination, if you disagree, disagree, if you don't want to read it, don't read it.

voiddragon
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:16:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Originally by: voiddragon
Edited by: voiddragon on 20/06/2011 21:14:41
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:55:50

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
In the past CCP has posted patch notes in advance then cut many things from the notes AFTER deployment. Documentation is always SLOW, the devs have their notes about what is done, but it is likely babble to us, it takes time to write things clearly.

In another thread CCP Navigator said s/he'd have more time to finish them if people quite their rumours.

AG


Well isn't their release management/doc writers collecting patch notes from the database that would have had that attribute on the changes/issues to be documented, then filtered out from that query.

That list of notes would have been growing all away along the development phase. there shouldnt be any supprises or thinking required really, just scrubbed for release.

Sounds kinda ad-hoc gung ho last minute "oh what did we put in there" kinda thing.




Have you ever developed software, Milla? You stopped posting in your rant about CCP licensing when I asked the same question regarding eve related software.


Because I don't owe you any explination, if you disagree, disagree, if you don't want to read it, don't read it.


I'll take that as a no then.

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:20:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: voiddragon

I'll take that as a no then.


You can take it with fries for all I care.


Moolti
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:33:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Moolti on 20/06/2011 21:33:49
damn ate my response... edited away.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:41:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Maybe it just looks that way, but I dono.

Nah, not really. Whatcha see is whatcha get.

Eversince they started this internet spaceships business they never got **** like this right. In my eyes this level of dis-organization is really what's holding them back from being amongst the truly great. You know that Blizzard kinda level.

Vandrion
Gallente
The Collective
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:48:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.





Personally, I think they forgot to set the money store up via account management so they could charge 5842 Aurum for the Patch Notes

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.20 21:50:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 20/06/2011 21:51:11

I'm more concerned of the fact that the Incarna engine, a completely different piece of technology, grafted onto an older existing piece of technology is actually being launched as a mandatory component of the game.

By actually replacing the hangar with the Captains Quarters in the initial launch of Incarna, the chances of things going horribly wrong are significant higher, than if the CQ was optional and the original Hangar environment was maintained as a fallback.

Mark my words:

ExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamation

Making Incarna mandatory at launch is the
WORST DESIGN DECISION IN EVE's HISTORY!


ExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamationExclamation



Mister Rocknrolla
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:26:00 - [20]
 

Technically it doesn't go "live" until it allows regular users to login...so that adds something like 14hrs "til live."


Ayieka
Caldari
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:32:00 - [21]
 

how many threads about the patch notes have you written today?

Discrodia
Gallente
Symbiosis International
Moose Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:35:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Apollo Gabriel
Originally by: Miilla
Edited by: Miilla on 20/06/2011 20:44:53
.. is the fact the patch notes are still being written 10 hours before it goes live.

.. and it's being tested on go live day

.. and its always changed on go live day

Is there no formal release planning and test strategy?


Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.





I really hope you get banned, 4 year olds have more patience.


Dude, you're arguing with a 4 year old and going to have about as much to show for it.

Captain Spurious
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:42:00 - [23]
 

DELIVER

Borun Tal
Minmatar
Space Pods Inc
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:47:00 - [24]
 

Why does this worry you more than any other update? This is SOP for CCP. :)

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:49:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Borun Tal
Why does this worry you more than any other update? This is SOP for CCP. :)


The fact that its Standard Operating Procedure worries me lol

Average Black Woman
Posted - 2011.06.20 22:51:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes
Originally by: Miilla
Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.

Sometimes you use realy strange expressions that the non-UK people don't really get, Miilla!


seat of the pants is UK only now? I better go back 20 years and erase it from my memory then

Frau Klaps
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:05:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Average Black Woman
Originally by: Scarlet des Loupes
Originally by: Miilla
Sounds seat of the pants planning, ermm no, not planning, just seat of the pants.

Sometimes you use realy strange expressions that the non-UK people don't really get, Miilla!


seat of the pants is UK only now? I better go back 20 years and erase it from my memory then


It's not the expressions, it's just Milla's limited grasp of the English language.

CCP Fallout

Posted - 2011.06.20 23:06:00 - [28]
 

Here's a little bit about the patch notes process from the inside :)

The myriad scrum teams do all their work over the course of several sprints and a hardening sprint, and then we build several days before deployment. All the while, Production and Community are gathering and writing patch notes. Tons of material are gathered, written, re-written to create a set of patch notes. A deployment the size of Incarna, an expansion, takes a long time to work on. Many notes are created over the course of the various sprints, but usually there's a huge rush at the end while fixes are being added, things are being clarified, etc.

We went from an original six page patch document on Friday to twelve when we published today.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:20:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
Here's a little bit about the patch notes process from the inside :)

And you are posting this why ...? Better tell us something about those pants.

Moolti
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.20 23:20:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
Here's a little bit about the patch notes process from the inside :)

The myriad scrum teams do all their work over the course of several sprints and a hardening sprint, and then we build several days before deployment. All the while, Production and Community are gathering and writing patch notes. Tons of material are gathered, written, re-written to create a set of patch notes. A deployment the size of Incarna, an expansion, takes a long time to work on. Many notes are created over the course of the various sprints, but usually there's a huge rush at the end while fixes are being added, things are being clarified, etc.

We went from an original six page patch document on Friday to twelve when we published today.


Why wouldn't the developer/team submit the patch notes when they submit the change/fix to system test? Surely they know what their change was? It would also have the side affect of helping to define scope for the developer(s) and tester(s).


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