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Loken Therakir
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:15:00 - [31]
 

Fumb Duck, love your name, it warned me to the lack of intelligence I could expect from your post!Razz
Could we please get some reading comprehension in here so dumb ****s don't go around thinking it is another thread to act superior and laugh at "whiners" in without actually reading what the thread is ABOUT? Seriously, jeez, it is like a kindergarten in here with all the kids running around trying to act smart in intelligent discussions.

Argosus
Waverunners
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:43:00 - [32]
 

all this talk about police, lawyers and gambling fraud. Next they will be added theft to the mix! Tyrax, they coming for you!! better run dude. Following will come malicious damage of space boats and lastly, murder!!!!! all you peee vee peeers better hide!!!


seriously, close this thing! whether they chose to fight to the death in the final or agreed to put on a show with a predetermined outcome, albeit a bad show, it has nothing to do with anyone but hydra and 0utbreak. They beat all the other teams in order to get there and effectivly won their prizes when they won their respective semi-finals. they may have metagamed part or all of their way to the finals but so what? its not against the rules and many other teams where trying to do the same. You cant tell me PL and Goons wouldn't have done the same had they got to the finals? same with c02 and wild boars or any of the Russian teams. This is what makes eve, EVE!




Loken Therakir
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:52:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Loken Therakir on 21/06/2011 15:52:48
Originally by: Argosus
they may have metagamed part or all of their way to the finals but so what? its not against the rules and many other teams where trying to do the same.


The point, Argosus, that you and many others horribly fails to grasp when you tl;dr the OP and the rest of the thread, is that it very well could be against the rules of Real Life! (italicized for Great Effect!). The problem doesn't only touch on the final match, as you pointed out, but metagaming in general when real money (in the form of real prizes) are involved.
I personally loved the EVE-feel of the final match, but the problem is if this could actually have real life ramifications since real companies contributed real prizes to real gambling in real life.

I am making the point that I don't think it does, but unfortunately I'm not a lawyer and certainly not an expert on international laws (EVE does have subscribers and holdings in different countries). What I would like the most is if all of this didn't legally count as gambling. But unfortunately when real money is involved, the risk of it being so is increased tremendously.

Edenmain
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:12:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Loken Therakir
Edited by: Loken Therakir on 21/06/2011 15:52:48
Originally by: Argosus
they may have metagamed part or all of their way to the finals but so what? its not against the rules and many other teams where trying to do the same.


The point, Argosus, that you and many others horribly fails to grasp when you tl;dr the OP and the rest of the thread, is that it very well could be against the rules of Real Life! (italicized for Great Effect!). The problem doesn't only touch on the final match, as you pointed out, but metagaming in general when real money (in the form of real prizes) are involved.
I personally loved the EVE-feel of the final match, but the problem is if this could actually have real life ramifications since real companies contributed real prizes to real gambling in real life.

I am making the point that I don't think it does, but unfortunately I'm not a lawyer and certainly not an expert on international laws (EVE does have subscribers and holdings in different countries). What I would like the most is if all of this didn't legally count as gambling. But unfortunately when real money is involved, the risk of it being so is increased tremendously.


Lol good luck with that and the lawyers and stuff.

At the end of the day it wasn't a competition just a prize draw the winner was picked from a hat, no "competition" involved just luck.

Randomize All
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:20:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Loken Therakir
Edited by: Loken Therakir on 21/06/2011 15:52:48
Originally by: Argosus
they may have metagamed part or all of their way to the finals but so what? its not against the rules and many other teams where trying to do the same.


The point, Argosus, that you and many others horribly fails to grasp when you tl;dr the OP and the rest of the thread, is that it very well could be against the rules of Real Life! (italicized for Great Effect!). The problem doesn't only touch on the final match, as you pointed out, but metagaming in general when real money (in the form of real prizes) are involved.
I personally loved the EVE-feel of the final match, but the problem is if this could actually have real life ramifications since real companies contributed real prizes to real gambling in real life.

I am making the point that I don't think it does, but unfortunately I'm not a lawyer and certainly not an expert on international laws (EVE does have subscribers and holdings in different countries). What I would like the most is if all of this didn't legally count as gambling. But unfortunately when real money is involved, the risk of it being so is increased tremendously.


The point, Loken, that you and many others horribly fails to grasp when you tl;dr the responses and the rest of the thread, is that it is not against the rules of Real Life! (italicized for Great Effect!)

Fortunately I'm not a lawyer and even more fortunately I don't need to be a lawyer to know that nobody is going to investigate anybody over the giving away of a laptop and a graphics card.
If all the stupidity put out on the back of this tournament was condensed into a little ball, all the half baked opinions, semi educated responses and terrible interpretations of how life on earth even works compressed, worked, shaped and turned into a thread, this is what it would look like.
Even trolls have a purpose, this thread does not.

Loken Therakir
Posted - 2011.06.21 16:27:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Randomize All
Even trolls have a purpose, this thread does not.


Objection!!! You're honor, thats a contradiction!

Rayce Farelle
Tribal Liberation Force
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:13:00 - [37]
 

Ok, I respect everyones opinion, and yes, if that tells me im ******ed then who am i to disagree. However i brought up this post for this exact thing- discussion. Whether that be trolling- fair enough, but if youre going to troll then at least read and understand the thread in the first place.

I was just wandering what- if any legal standing would surround real life prizes, worth real life money and sold by real life companies- on the outcome of a supposedly rigged match
(WHETHER OR NOT EVERYONE AGREES OR DISAGREES)

Hell, if having sex with a model was illegal, there would be people that still would like it and people that wouldnt. I am trying tog et rid of the support and/or hate for what went on, i was just trying to understand whether ther would be any repercussions, if someon was anal enough to complain to the proper authorities.

Personally i dont like what hydra did- but it was definitly eve-like and for that it should be applauded. But for this thread, that doesnt matter- just try to look objectively at it.

For the proper posts- thank you for your input, it has given intelligent people who want to converse something to mull over


Rayce

Argosus
Waverunners
Posted - 2011.06.21 23:01:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Loken Therakir
Edited by: Loken Therakir on 21/06/2011 15:52:48

The point,is that it very well could be against the rules of Real Life! (italicized for Great Effect!).


Eve Online
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

EVE Online is a video game (italicized, bolded and underlined for Great Effect!)

Jusena Alderi
Posted - 2011.06.21 23:38:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Loken Therakir
Edited by: Loken Therakir on 21/06/2011 15:52:48

The point, Argosus, that you and many others horribly fails to grasp when you tl;dr the OP and the rest of the thread, is that it very well could be against the rules of Real Life! (italicized for Great Effect!). The problem doesn't only touch on the final match, as you pointed out, but metagaming in general when real money (in the form of real prizes) are involved.
I personally loved the EVE-feel of the final match, but the problem is if this could actually have real life ramifications since real companies contributed real prizes to real gambling in real life.

I am making the point that I don't think it does, but unfortunately I'm not a lawyer and certainly not an expert on international laws (EVE does have subscribers and holdings in different countries). What I would like the most is if all of this didn't legally count as gambling. But unfortunately when real money is involved, the risk of it being so is increased tremendously.


But it's not really gambling if theres nothing on the line is it? I mean for the graphics card and the other stuff, there is nothing to lose. Either you win or you don't win, but in anycase you don't lose anything.

Loken Therakir
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:30:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Loken Therakir on 22/06/2011 04:33:32
Originally by: Argosus
EVE Online is a video game (italicized, bolded and underlined for Great Effect!)


I think we have something great going on here, keep it up! (italicized for Great Effect!)

To keep the thread rolling: it doesn't matter that EVE is a video game, it doesn't make it exempt from the rules and regulations of real life where they apply. Even a ****** knows that making a video game containing, for example, highly illegal pictures (imagine some yourself) wouldn't make the pictures magically legal because it appeared in a video game ;)

Same for gambling in a video game where real money is involved. Doesn't make it exempt from real laws just because its a video game (italicized for Great Emphasis!)

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.30 14:49:00 - [41]
 

Goldmine

Spookyjay
Caldari
Animosity.
Posted - 2011.07.01 12:16:00 - [42]
 

on a technical point i am not sure how far you would get but CCP has a branch in the UK and as such could be held to UK law by this. Not to sure how it works but i think you could have some base for them to actually look. but like has been said this is a little drastic. It is a game and CCP lets hope fix match fixing for next year.

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.07.01 16:43:00 - [43]
 

UK law != international law.

CCP Hf is registered in Iceland, not the UK.

Take your terrible UK legal system elsewhere.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.07.03 04:22:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: JEK3
Edited by: JEK3 on 20/06/2011 22:34:13
Edited by: JEK3 on 20/06/2011 22:33:36
Edited by: JEK3 on 20/06/2011 22:30:56
Originally by: Rayce Farelle
I understand that this may be going quite far about this saga but i was curious as to the legal standing of the rigged Final and the "metagaming" throughout.

Now... From what i have found out, is that alot of what is offically complainable, has to have breached EVE's (CCPs) code of conduct for the individual tournament or specific rules were broken UNLESS the tournament rules do not cover the offending actions, and then it is reserved back to the specific, Gambling or Fraud acts of each particular country.

For the UK, both the Gambling ACT of 2005 and the Fraud ACT of 2006, cover gaming , gambling and competitions. It is stated that if there is a prize competition on the outcome of a certain event, then match fixing laws should be enabled. Now what i want to know is there a case to say that term-of service was violated or whether e-sports like this one with real prizes are covered by any law.

Discuss....


I saw many stupid and childish answers, to what under a legal perspective is a very legit and interesting question.
First of all, my view is thet UK laws aren't the ones to look at in this case. We should most probably look at Iceland's laws. I'm not aware of them, but they probably aren't very different from UK's ones in this case. Anyway, I'm almost sure in Iceland too there are some laws that are regulating competitions and that are going against fixing matches.
What is to be considered first is the RL damage coming from fixing this competition's result. Thanks to the plex system, ISK are now convertible in "real money", therefore the damage is real and so are all the bets. The prizes offered by the sponsor are also real and convertible in real money. As real money is involved (and that's the case), real laws are kicking in. A fixing in the attibution of the prizes (and a fixing of the tournament result is that) can for sure be sued.
If somebody is going to sue hydra for the fixing... ..well, that somebody could well win and the judge would kick hydra's ass big time. The position of CCP is not so clear, but of course something like saying "bribery (or metagaming)is in the rules of the tournament" would not make a judge very happy, as bribery cannot be tolerated when real money is involved. CCP should have took actions against the briberies. Their failure to do so (and eventually to report those briberies to a legit authority if they didn't) probably puts them in a very unconfortable position (but I'm not the one that has to judge this).
I know something about laws, but I want to make clear I am not a lawyer. I'd like to hear the views of a legit lawyer (maybe from Iceland). Anyway I don't think the view of a legit lawyer would diffeer much from mine.


Cheers

JEK3


Servers are in London and thus UK law would most probably hold weight.

I just hope they go to single elimination in the next tournament, with a bracket system so that it doesn't matter who wins or losses you can't really change to the other side like they did this time which ultimately led to them both being in the final.

Signal11th
Posted - 2011.07.06 14:12:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Lykouleon
UK law != international law.

CCP Hf is registered in Iceland, not the UK.

Take your terrible UK legal system elsewhere.



Wow, That was insightful!



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