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Laladria Moonsword
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:31:00 - [241]
 

To all the Hydra and Outbreak (and others - I'm looking at you Zamone) and all the guys involved you all did a good job and performed wonderfully.

Great read Duncan and can i have your babies?

Creamster
Fremen Sietch
DarkSide.
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:41:00 - [242]
 

Nicely written and congrats on your triumph.

However, I'd like to go on a record with the following.
We were not fed intel prior to our match against PL, we had no insider information on what setups they'd tested and considered powerful (only saw adrestia team fooling around at FDZ and read forums made available to everyone). In fact we rejected an offer from HYDRA's representative to throw our match against AAA in exchange for PL's setups and plans. I'd very much appreciate if you could reflect this detail in your article, Duncan

Lexa Hellfury
Immortal.
Posted - 2011.06.21 00:50:00 - [243]
 

I like Duncan.

Nor Tzestu
Amarr
Boxwater Intelligence
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:17:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Creamster
Nicely written and congrats on your triumph.

However, I'd like to go on a record with the following.
We were not fed intel prior to our match against PL, we had no insider information on what setups they'd tested and considered powerful (only saw adrestia team fooling around at FDZ and read forums made available to everyone). In fact we rejected an offer from HYDRA's representative to throw our match against AAA in exchange for PL's setups and plans. I'd very much appreciate if you could reflect this detail in your article, Duncan


Good on you guys. I was really pulling for you guys. Awesome matches all weekend from you guys. Sure I am biased towards your fits..Amarr Victor!!..but still. Outstanding match against Outbreak in what turns out was the real final. Hope your back next year kicking ass and taking names without playing "meta" and "wwf" fail games.

Balcor Mirage
Posted - 2011.06.21 04:53:00 - [245]
 

Edited by: Balcor Mirage on 21/06/2011 05:04:39
I have read through most of the posts concerning the outcome of the tournament. Ya sure you can argue that Outbreak and Hydra played within the rules set out by CCP. I'm sure both teams now realize at least a portion of the damage they have done to the community, the tournament, the sponsors... and themselves. Hydra wins.. yay? There will always be an asterisk associated with that achievement. That in itself is a stigma that all the members of both teams will have to deal with... and that is very unfortunate given the time they devoted to excellence. Excellence lost.

What I don't see is a response from CCP on how they intend to assure something like this doesn't happen again. As you know, there are many other game tournaments out there on the world stage. It's obvious that CCP is not ready to make that step until they can answer the public humiliation of a fixed prize fight.

As I was one of the Eve community who was rooting for a group to come along and really make this tournament a brawl, I leave you with this quote and the connotations therein...

"Say it ain't so, Joe"

Minigin
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.21 05:01:00 - [246]
 

i like duncan.

Xikorita
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.06.21 05:18:00 - [247]
 

This was an awesome read. More material for my non-eve friends to see how serious this internet spaceships game is.

I find all the butthurt amazing.

"How dare you guys mess up with what I expect the finals to be?"

I explained in 30 sec of the live action to my roomate that doesn't play eve and he was laughing his ass off.

Poetic Stanziel
Gallente
Macbeth Transport and Freight LLC
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:09:00 - [248]
 

You forgot to add the tl;dr, Duncan.

tl;dr: We wanted to give you all a much more exciting FIXED match than we delivered. We are sorry for not faking our fake match with finesse.

Shiroi Okami
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:32:00 - [249]
 

i like duncan

Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar
Undead Stuffed Bunnies
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.21 06:36:00 - [250]
 

Originally by: Poetic Stanziel
You forgot to add the tl;dr, Duncan.

tl;dr: We wanted to give you all a much more exciting FIXED match than we delivered. We are sorry for not faking our fake match with finesse.



TL;DR - Hydra/Outbreak victory is due to the hard work of many. All plans and options were fool-proofed and implemented, and only one mistake in the finals occurred.

Lee ChanKa
WEPRA CORP
White Noise.
Posted - 2011.06.21 10:22:00 - [251]
 

gj m8s rly..you don hell job there...

Duncan Tanner
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.21 13:03:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: Creamster
Nicely written and congrats on your triumph.

However, I'd like to go on a record with the following.
We were not fed intel prior to our match against PL, we had no insider information on what setups they'd tested and considered powerful (only saw adrestia team fooling around at FDZ and read forums made available to everyone). In fact we rejected an offer from HYDRA's representative to throw our match against AAA in exchange for PL's setups and plans. I'd very much appreciate if you could reflect this detail in your article, Duncan


When Razor initially rejected our mutually beneficial offer we were prepared to intentionally lose the Hydra vs PL match because it would mean 0utbreak would have no choice but to finish first. Our goal was to end up on opposite sides of the bracket yes, but it was also to force PL to go through either Hydra or 0utbreak to get to the final match. Since Darkside was the only other strong team we offered them intel in exchange for positioning themselves to fight PL in the knockout. We wanted PL knocked out.

Darkside did not agree to the offer of intel for positioning themselves to fight PL so we prepared to lose to PL and fight Darkside ourselves. Fortunately for us Razor reconsidered and this allowed us to take the PL match seriously. We beat PL and Darkside had to fight them anyway which was the best possible outcome for us.

We didn't give Darkside any intel on PL at all. We considered it, but we prefered that PL beat Darkside because we were more comfortable fighting a known opponent and we wanted to be the ones to knock out PL.

In a perfect world it isn't just the final that would've gone differently. Before the split between 0utbreak and Hydra we suggested that 0utbreak name their alliance BRUCE RELOADED instead of Outbreakdot. With the brackets setup the way they were Hydra would finish first and BRUCE RELOADED would finish second in their groups. PL would beat Darkside and continue through the bracket to fight BRUCE RELOADED. BRUCE RELOADED would beat PL and the final would be HYDRA RELOADED vs BRUCE RELOADED. Unfortunately 0utbreak chickened out and called their alliance something boring and Darkside beat PL.

Greedr
Caldari
Nekogami Band
JIHADASQUAD
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:22:00 - [253]
 

I want to thank you for posting this massive wall of text. :D
Didn't know what to do 'till eve gets back online, than i saw this.
After reading i want to congratulate on winning this tournament, you did deserve it.
But also i want to flame you for that last match, next time bring moar faction/pirate pew pews and make um go bo00m! :D
Btw, i was losing all my bets on this tournament, and than i guessed last match correctly, tho i cursed a lot when i saw what was on field =)

o7

Jos Wijnants
Posted - 2011.06.21 14:28:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Greedr
tho i cursed a lot when i saw what was on field =)

o7


i wonder why would you curse
Ah i see ,you placed a bet on a match ,expecting to see a match
but then you saw what they brought to this match and yelled ,wtf i am gonna loose big time
good luck they rigged the match ,congratz on that one ,sirRolling EyesTwisted Evil

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:41:00 - [255]
 

What a load of ego-maniacal spoon-fed crockery.


"Meta-gaming" - The last fight wasn't meta-gamed, it was ****ed.


All that had to happen was the Vindicator get destroyed. And noone would know the better. You were selfish and incompetent, and the rest of what you did was for nothing.

Noone cares that you put a ton of effort because you blew the final - that's all anyone will remember. The fact you need to write 5 posts of explanation to make up for 1 act is pretty damn obvious as to how much **** you need to spew to make up for it.

If you had won straight up? Guess what... you might have not actually sounded like a douche saying all that. But now you do, and that's your fault.

You are right, this is EVE - and you failed at it.

Calladad
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:47:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/06/2011 18:27:10
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Grath Telkin

I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.



Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.


Can we link to posts from people who were at the alliance tournament after the camera turned off? :)

Ed: And TBH if you think CCP won't be mad about a finals like that, then you're ****ing delusional. CCP spent a lot of RL $$$ throwing a bash like that, and even managed to score external sponsorship and RL prizes. The final was a ****up of MASSIVE proportion, and CCP has every right to be ****ed about it.


You know, I cant help thinking about the first thing being said in the "Eve: A future vision" video.

"Honor is not about making the right choices, its about dealing with the consequences".. I mean, could the outcome of the final match have been better, sure, but CCP basically promotes metagaming and screwing people over as the most important thing in the game. You can do it as long as you deal with the consequences. The fact that they are ****ed off (of record) because some people did just that is just plain sad (if what you say is true).

and tbh, I think people can do without the annoying commercials next year and rather lame prizes. A friend of mine was watching a League of legends tournament last weekend with 100000$ game price (Dreamhack I think) so the whole sponsor thing, a computer and a graphic card, is not something to worry too much about. They could prolly afford to hand out stuff like that without sponsors.

Phinger
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:59:00 - [257]
 

They fought and trained and positioned themselves to end up fighting each other ....but they beat the best to get themselves in the final.....both teams were champs.

What they should have done at this stage is Admit they were just two groups of the same allaince. They had already won...they just did it with two teams beating the two next best allainces.

THen gone in the fight and actually duked it out ...still got the kudos and put up a good fight.....and not sweat the reward.

If we had seen a brilliant fight instead of the .....surrender crap....It would have been fine. You had beat all the actual allaince members who competed fair and square. Just the last fight was a sort of joke not a fight. And the release of the info afterwards will leave a sour message for everyone. Your training your preparation and your combat are above par....but politically you shot yourself in the foot.

Thanks for the write up though....I aint so angry now......just feel the whole thing was a bit of a letdown at the end.


Kaarina Inkeri
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:19:00 - [258]
 

Pretty much sums it up.

Everything was fine until you decided to fix the last match. Why? if you were both one team and won first and second...why did you fix the fight? It's not like you brought your flagships or anything expensive (not like you weren't about to get 100 free unique ships anyway) Would it have killed you to let us see one of the ships you won last year in action?

It may not have mattered to you, but it did matter to others. You knew people were getting prizes based on correctly predicting the winner of matches, you knew people were betting on the matches. Everything was fine until that point.

Even all the people complaining about meta-gaming don't get it. This is part of EVE and part of the tournament the same way it is in some other sports, like Speed Skating (specifically Short Track) or even horse racing when a trainer enters two horses in the same race. It is a strategy like others and there is nothing wrong with it....until the winner stops and lets another win.

You basically used the final to make us watch you jerk off. Thanks for that.

Hakkar Desh Lupercal
Posted - 2011.06.21 19:57:00 - [259]
 

Saying sorry here makes you even more sad.
Feck off, you ruined the fun and excitement of watching the so called best of the best. This tournament lost all value.

Tisiphone Erinyesfuries
Posted - 2011.06.21 20:08:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Hakkar Desh Lupercal
Saying sorry here makes you even more sad.
Feck off, you ruined the fun and excitement of watching the so called best of the best. This tournament lost all value.


I AGREE 100%. The Final was über crap.
Worst of all they didnt show a true spirit of competition or the true spirit of the game.

As far as I'm concerned it was a rigged final. Shame on YOU!Evil or Very Mad

Bryan Havoc
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2011.06.21 20:51:00 - [261]
 

Edited by: Bryan Havoc on 21/06/2011 20:52:31
Nice read Duncan. Well done. The final showcased the true spirit of Eve. Anyone that says otherwise is playing the wrong game.

TG Milenko
Posted - 2011.06.21 21:36:00 - [262]
 

Just wanna congratulate on a massive achievement. I am just a mission running nube but I can appriciate when players get the most out of EVE.

Getting both teams in the final was the victory, the result of the final....who cares...you allready won the game you were playing.

Cheers for sandboxes. (Making peoble angry since september 24, 1997)

Lazerus Bulder
Posted - 2011.06.21 21:44:00 - [263]
 

wow almost 261 post about how great you are. Cool

LOL

No matter how you all packet it, or how many of your buddies/alts you get to post in here, you did not win a PvP tournament in my book.
You won the scamming "meta-game" show you put on, no doubt about that. You are by far the best at that.
But you took the PvP out of the AT... Good work Rolling Eyes
Did you enjoy great celebration, the Live Stream people gave you when the final was over. Wink

You did Fans of AT a disservice. Why should CCP do another?

Silicon Sailor
Northgate
Posted - 2011.06.21 21:49:00 - [264]
 

Edited by: Silicon Sailor on 21/06/2011 21:49:58
At least they made it LOOK sorta good...

Heck, they COULD have each brought 1 frigate and battled with Civilian Gatling guns......

Heck, 2 teams, same Alliance... the Event was over before the last match STARTED...
If CCP allows 2+ teams from the same Alliance to participate, they have to allow the possibility that it'll bite them in the dark shiny spot

Humphrey Goff
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:01:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Lazerus Bulder
wow almost 261 post about how great you are. Cool

LOL

No matter how you all packet it, or how many of your buddies/alts you get to post in here, you did not win a PvP tournament in my book.
You won the scamming "meta-game" show you put on, no doubt about that. You are by far the best at that.
But you took the PvP out of the AT... Good work Rolling Eyes
Did you enjoy great celebration, the Live Stream people gave you when the final was over. Wink

You did Fans of AT a disservice. Why should CCP do another?


Stop trolling Garmon. Very Happy

Azishkra'elhykai Mizamel
Minmatar
Undead Stuffed Bunnies
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:13:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Humphrey Goff
Stop trolling Garmon. Very Happy


Almost choked on my coffee.

Sorry, what? Somebody can troll Garmon?

Draekas Darkwater
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:33:00 - [267]
 

Great read and congrats on your wins.

**** final though. Least ya could have done is brought out the exact same setup for both teams and had a true honest to god fight, where really and truly the best pilots/FCing would win. If you wanted to swap prizes or something later after the fact, you could have done so.

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:50:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
I don't think anyone can legitimately complain about you taking the top two spots. No, what we can legitimately complain about is that you failed to entertain people in such an epic way in the final match of the alliance tournament. While I'm a bit aggravated that 0utbreak didn't take it in the end (ooooh how I wanted such an old name to win!), I think the people you should be apologizing to is CCP. They spent a lot of RL $$$ and effort to put this thing on, only to have it kinda **** on in the very end.

Best of luck entertaining us next time.

-Liang


It doesn't suit you to sound so butthurt Liang.

You don't have to look much further than the OP's writeup, or hell think for two seconds, and you'll realise alot of things. First off that the metagaming been part of the AT for longer than people want to believe (ignorance). Second they struggle to accept there IS A- and B-teams (ignorance). Thirdly they believe people win the AT with honour (ignorance).

Fourth, this is excellent marketing for EVE and the sandbox, the AT actually resembles the "real game" and isn't just some ****ed up arena sport. A bit similar to how the writeup about one of Istvaan's heists actually brought alot of people to this game. And how I personally started EVE many many years ago, after reading on mmorpg.com about how this game actually expects people to be douchebags..

I could go on but it'd make me look as if I'm whining about whiners, so I'll just shut up. But tbh; Hydra and 0utbreak - grats on your accomplishment, this AT was bloody damn boring up until the Darkside-match, and then the final. Thanks for the show guys. Razz

Also, another +lurve for Duncan, and some extra <3 to Nexus and Bai, missed your guys posts.

canadon
Minmatar
Otela Co
Posted - 2011.06.22 01:46:00 - [269]
 

I'd have to say, hats off to you guys for running this show the way you did. I can understand that people are upset at not getting the show they wanted. Everyone wants to see a grueling fight to the last ship and no one got that this year. You gave them something else. I know I wanted that "great battle of skill and determination". that show of true leadership out of and FC and the true... professionalism?... from a team. You didn't give us that. You did show us something and you quite clearly stated your slight remorse for how it turned out. Apology accepted sir. I am impressed. not by what you didn't give me but what I got instead....
People should relax. Yes I agree that CCP will be a bit miffed by this, they will get over it. so will everyone else and yes there will be an asterisk by your win and at the bottom of the page it will simply state that you made not just the other teams your ***** but you made the entire tournament get down on it's knees and open wide with a whimper and a smile.
good job guys; just make it look better next yeah k? ;-)

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.22 01:54:00 - [270]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/06/2011 18:27:10
Originally by: J Kunjeh
Originally by: Grath Telkin

I think you made CCP, you know, the company that awards the prizes, and hosts the tournament, pretty damn mad.



Can you link us to the post where CCP is raging about what happened? I haven't seen it and I thought I had read them all. It seems to me that only a VERY small percentage of the entire player based is upset about it and subsequently whining on the forums.


Can we link to posts from people who were at the alliance tournament after the camera turned off? :)

Ed: And TBH if you think CCP won't be mad about a finals like that, then you're ****ing delusional. CCP spent a lot of RL $$$ throwing a bash like that, and even managed to score external sponsorship and RL prizes. The final was a ****up of MASSIVE proportion, and CCP has every right to be ****ed about it.


The way CCP ****ed up the AT they don't deserve jack ****.

* First they allowed meta-gaming for years, so starting to complain about it now is stupid.
* Second they allowed B-teams, selling of AT-slots etc for years, so to complain about it now is stupid.
* Thirdly everyone know (ok fine, they obviously don't know, but checking forums for five minutes would be sufficient) who Hydra and Garmon are, and moreso, how they play this game.
* Fourth, CCP has ****ed up over the playerbase for real this AT. If you cared about reading AT forums last few weeks there's been a metric ****ton of posts about how this is "the worst AT ever". And alot of people have been quite upset about how CCP ignores players wishes, by not even streaming qualifiers, and even removing old AT's from youtube.
* Fifth, CCP employees responses to concern on these forums have been "we don't care what you think" "people always whine" and "we know better than you" (that's responses to player questions of why CCP's quality demands is more important than player wishes to see lower-qual streams).

It's blatantly obvious that CCP care more about making the AT an arena sport (sponsors and quality issues reflecting this), than to make the AT actually reflect EVE as a game. Ironicly, CCP got bitten in the ass and got a finally that actually does reflect the reality of this game, instead. So instead of "losing" potential customers who believe EVE has fair fights and arena-like environment, they will win player who see the meta-gaming, dog-eats-dog sandbox game for what it is? If anything, CCP was selling a lie, and this years final has just exposed that.

And to believe that PL or any other entity with the same capability and resources would not have done the same, would be ignorant and guesstimations at best. They don't have Garmon tho, so chances are they wouldn't troll the final. Razz


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