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Alvia Siv
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:50:00 - [121]
 

Edited by: Alvia Siv on 20/06/2011 12:54:11
Awesome read,
and explains where the utter superiority comes from,
however I was hugely disappointed to see you fake the final, especially so badly. It does cut into your success, or at least its impresiveness, and was thoroughly the ****tiest tourney match out of the 100s I've watched (Darkside - Outbreak being one of the best).
I believe you guys should have just fought the final out, maybe with the exact same setup, to prove pilot superiority on either side, instead of putting on that oh so lame display, which not only didn't make Laedy look any cooler, but completely disgraced her :(
Truly a pity.

That said:
Congrats on WTFPWNing this A.T., Good Game sirs!

Vaarun
Amarr
The Night Crew
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:50:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Duncan Tanner
Edited by: Duncan Tanner on 20/06/2011 07:57:39
This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament. To all those who say otherwise you are welcome to put in the effort we did this year and try to take our titles away.


After that exceptionally long account, you still choose to end on the same threadbare excuse of "this is how EVE is". I also blame CCP for cultivating this "anarchist" culture by being so lenient on scams and cheating, and in many ways encouraging it.

All of you are turning our top-level play into a joke.

Zenst
Hall Of Flame
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:52:00 - [123]
 

Thank you Duncan, realy good read, leaves no stones unturned. I'd even say it makes up for the final and fully explains it.

Also probably the most honest admission of meta-gamming ever.

That I expect at least expected a hauler 10 v 10, should the same sitation arrises.

Brilliant idea to practice in wormholes though and those logistics peeps who kept the wheels turning did just as much if not more than those that flew. Shame they wont get official medals though I'm sure you will sort something out for them.


Once again, realy nice read, and whilst long you realy don't notice that when you start reading and actualy wish it was longer, it's that good a read.

Ethan Saisima
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:56:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Icylce
ima sheep hurr-durr


Quit your preaching about e-honor. The guys put their work into the tourny, and got their fair share. They could've put on a better show honestly, but that's about it.

This thread is now about Shadoo talking with his entire face.

REQUIEMSORN
Anakites
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:57:00 - [125]
 

+1 and all the crying emo people are hilarious. AT is fun no matter how it ends, but it's probably most of these whiners only chance to see things other than rats and roids blow up. I guess that's why they are mad.

I approve of the final. Laughing

00Dead
Caldari
Vanquish Inc
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:57:00 - [126]
 

Fantastic report. Fantastic tourney - This is what EVE is all about.

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:58:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Zenst

Brilliant idea to practice in wormholes though and those logistics peeps who kept the wheels turning did just as much if not more than those that flew. Shame they wont get official medals though I'm sure you will sort something out for them.


Once again, realy nice read, and whilst long you realy don't notice that when you start reading and actualy wish it was longer, it's that good a read.


2 excellent points. <3 Duncan and <3 all the hard working people that worked the WH magic!

CarbonFury
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.20 12:58:00 - [128]
 

It's clear you guys put way more effort in than anyone else so congratulations on the well deserved victory.

That being said, you'll just have to deal with the fact that people are gonna be pretty ****ed off about the way you guys handled the finals. I actually turned it off after the first 30 seconds when I realized what was going on. You can't really explain or justify your way out of it, you're just gonna have to say "oops" and take the criticism Wink

See you guys in real Eve :)

Nisroc Uljanov
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:00:00 - [129]
 

I don't mind the spying on other teams, that's just part of the AT. And you can get away with rigging matches early on. Like taking a dive for isk if you got all the wins you need to get through to the final day.

But I think most of us expect all bets to be off in the final knockout stages of the tournament. And this AT had been the best AT up until the final. The final was horrendous. I felt like I had spent an entire day on websites of ill repute, oiling and loading my gun, aiming at my target, just so The Old Bill could storm in and confiscate my gun before I could pull the trigger. It was a huge anticlimax to put it mildly.

You could have gotten away with it, you could have said "All bets are off", you could have won the hearts of every one of us. You could have let player skill
decide the winner, taken a bow and walked off the stage. Instead you stumbled of the stage like Amy Winehouse after a bag of dodgy blow.

The real winners of this AT, CCP.
Thank you so much for bringing us a great show!

Blink Silverstar
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:09:00 - [130]
 

As someone who has tried to "rig" a 4-way finals showdown in another game (3 teams of ours against 1 oppenent), i comment HYDRA and 0utbreak. for pulling the ultimate win. despite what the others said, you deserve the win.

true, you might have staged the finals better, but that's something you can do better on in ATX

Reiisan
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:20:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Kavu
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon
i like duncan


+1

Nice work Hydra, and a nice post from Duncan to boot


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:21:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Nice and interesting writeup, Duncan. A very nice read.
At least up to the point where you end up screwing the finals.

You did well in the meta-gaming aspect of it (that's a given), you flew your setups very well, both teams so congratulations on that. However screwing up the finals and not giving everyone a good show, no matter whether it "internally" didn't matter to both of you was extremely poor taste.

Viewers wouldn't have cared that it was team A vs team B of the same group, had the fight been in earnest, and interesting, with shiny explosions.
As it was it looked like a giant giving the finger at the audience and CCP alike. What's done is done, but this isn't going to get you any sympathy from anyone. At least it's a lesson for the future should any such scenario present itself again.




Agree with Meissa really. Clearly on the pure amount of work and effort put in by Hydra and friends you deserved to win. But it did end with a damp squib and failed to provide any spectacle or excitement. In a way it saw the Eve alliance tournament change from professional boxing to WWE wrestling and while thats an acquired taste its not for everyone.

Some earlier tournaments were genuinely exciting to watch and even my non-Eve friends could appreciate the buzz around it and thus it can sell the game nicely. This one? I'm glad I didn't get anyone to watch the final tbh because it was embarrassing.

In the future I think CCP tournament organizers will need to make sure the format itself minimizes some of the metagaming possibilities with the structure of the knockout phase.

Darius Brinn
Iberians
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:25:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Darius Brinn on 20/06/2011 13:26:11
While I commend the winners for their hard work and all that, let's not forget that the Tournament is NOT EvE.

It's sport. It's a display of epeen.

It's for fun.

B-teams and rigged finals clearly tell a tale of twisted dedication and focus, but it's still a huge dissapointment.

And in these shows, it's not a matter of WHO claims the prize, but the way of doing it. Duncan's story of their preparations is not an excuse.

They trained, they hid, they bid their time...and then they metagamed like there's no tomorrow, and took a big dump on CCP, the audience and their own efforts.

If a Superbowl-playing team did AMAZINGLY WELL during the season, but rigged the finals, would you accept their excuses for "hard work overall"?

No.

In order to prevent this from happening, I would disqualify both teams, and hand over the prizes to 3rd and 4th places (whoever they were).

And next ATs, offer no prize, CCP. Whoever did this, will try to do it again next year, only refining their "technique" and putting up a good (and rigged) show for the masses.

Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:27:00 - [134]
 

tl;dr

Vrabac
Zawa's Fan Club
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:35:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Duncan Tanner
This is Eve. Meta gaming, back room deals, scamming and pvp are all equal parts of it. I think we are deserving of having won both first and second in this tournament.


It was actually a pretty good read and the entire scheming game up until the finals is really impressive, however finals itself is what I see as the actual problem, not everything you described before that. You should have simply fought normally and if outbreak felt so heartbroken over you not getting the first prize they could have simply given it to you later. The fight itself was a really foul play toward everyone watching and you had to realize it would leave a sense of foulness over entire tournament, including your otherwise great achievement.

It's funny actually because if this is true it turns out that outbreak are a bunch of emotional softies who decided to publically humiliate themselves for their BFFs. Laughing

Balak Ragnek
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:37:00 - [136]
 

It's a good write up, thanks. Aside from the obvious issues around the finals one thing I would say is you lot really need to take this a little less seriously in the future.

Eve is just a game, at some point it will be gone. Real Life however will still be there. When you have people skipping work and school in order to do what you did things have gone very wrong in your sense of priorities.

If your hobby is running your lives you need to take a break. Remember it's just a game.

DarkProphet Kalos
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:42:00 - [137]
 

Congrates Outbreak/hydra. All the hard work payed off

Obviously Confidential
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:45:00 - [138]
 

The deal here is deciding if we want "sports like entertainment" or an "EVE gaming competition".

What we have right now and what we call "Alliance Tournament" is NOT an esports event or something geared to provide standard sports-like entertainment to viewers, it is a competition between alliances where many of the deeply rooted behaviours intrinsic to EVE gameplay apply (as described above by HYDRA).

What you see on EVE TV is not a sports match, it's a competition that results from the reality of the EVE world.

I am under the impression that ALL previous tournaments were influenced by similar behaviours more or less, although in this tournament it became more obvious with the final match. But this is EVE and it's unscripted and unpredictable, the results are never good or bad, just part of the reality of the game. If you accept the obvious, it becomes easier.

If CCP wants to have a better competition of EVE alliances they can change the rules to try to prevent multiple alliances and whatnot, but it's going to be very hard to do this without severing the ties to EVE world. Viewers should just manage expectations and don't approach it in the same way as a sports match. Might look the same, but it's a very different beast. It's still entertaining, just not in the same way as a sports match, more like a reality show.

If CCP wants to have a true esports environment I would suggest redsigning the format, not giving away any in game items or isk and basically take away all the connections to the devious world of EVE. Effectively building a "clean room" like environment. In the process I feel we will lose a lot of the richness and complexity, probably ending up with less than what we have right now.

I can understand that lots of people are let down and the community rage at both finalists, but I think the problem comes from people assuming they were going to watch something different than what these tournaments really are ... it has been like this all along, this final just made the reality more obvious.

Linu Glacier
Gallente
Nemesis Nation
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:45:00 - [139]
 

HYDRA - the alliance who just could'nt raise the flag

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:46:00 - [140]
 

Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 13:46:08
Originally by: DarkProphet Kalos
Congrates Outbreak/hydra. All the hard work payed off


The problem for Hydra is it won't be remembered that way. Regardless of what actually happened (or not) it'll be remembered as Outbreak throwing the match, not Hydra winning it.

I'm not commenting one way or another on what happened, just what will be remembered and I'm afraid that people won't remember Hydra "winning", they'll remember Outbreak losing.

Enjoy the iskies lads for I fear you will get no plaudits for this win.

Tobiaz
Spacerats
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:49:00 - [141]
 

Very nice read, but the very negative response to throwing the finals combined with how much CCP promoted the event WILL come back and bite the alliances in the butt for next year.

Chia Mulholland
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:52:00 - [142]
 

I didn't watch any of the tournament because idgaf, but the amount of tears in this thread is just delicious. Well done.

wackamole
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:54:00 - [143]
 

AWSOME job Hydra!! Thank you for taking the time to post.

Next year I expect to see a ROOKIE ship slug fest for the finals...That would be EPIC!!

Blacko Bellamy
Posted - 2011.06.20 13:55:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Blacko Bellamy on 20/06/2011 13:56:22


Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 13:46:08
Originally by: DarkProphet Kalos
Congrates Outbreak/hydra. All the hard work payed off


The problem for Hydra is it won't be remembered that way. Regardless of what actually happened (or not) it'll be remembered as Outbreak throwing the match, not Hydra winning it.

I'm not commenting one way or another on what happened, just what will be remembered and I'm afraid that people won't remember Hydra "winning", they'll remember Outbreak losing.

Enjoy the iskies lads for I fear you will get no plaudits for this win.


Who can proof the story he told about all this very much *hard work*, is true?

Thiefs tend to have a lot of stories, why they did something, if they get caught.


Think about it.

Joan Deplume
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:07:00 - [145]
 

Pathetic really. Thanks for the long read and for curing me of ever giving a rats about AT.
I was one of the poor fools who stayed up late to watch it, I wont worry about any other AT :) so thanks Hydra for being Awesome :)

Emennt
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:09:00 - [146]
 

Awesome work in the tourney, great effort ,you deserved to be in the final ...
BUT
Never rig the final match, GJ Outbreak you are the winner of AT9 in my book

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:10:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Othran on 20/06/2011 14:10:58
Originally by: Blacko Bellamy


Who can proof the story he told about all this very much *hard work*, is true?

Thiefs tend to have a lot of stories, why they did something, if they get caught.


Think about it.


Outbreak beat Darkside in a fairly epic fight.

That's NOT going to happen without dozens of hours of practice.

Chivalry Lightbringer
Rogue Blades
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:13:00 - [148]
 

Lovely report from the road to ATIX victory!

In a few days people will forget it, and won't be reminded until ATX closes in, and then they will already be interested in seeing if things have changed, so I really doubt that this will have any negative effect on CCP.

:)




Randal Eirikr
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:14:00 - [149]
 

Am I really mad? Other than losing my bet on 0utbreak, no. You guys clearly deserved the win for putting in so much effort, and as an EVE player who pulls all nighters to cyno, I applaud that.

But man, its the finals, I had friends watching that who were on the brink of finally giving EVE a fair shot. Then they watched that and just completely said '**** it'.

I'm not against metagaming, hell political intrigue is basically the top reason why I play this game. I'm totally chill with you guys having two teams in the AT. You earned this win, but you really really screwed the pooch for future Alliance Tournaments, CCP, and the EVE Community as a whole. Keep your prizes, you earned them, but I just wish teams would take the finals of AT9 a bit more seriously. Not so much for eHonour, but just how it affects the game as a whole and CCP. I'm a Telecommunications student, and I can't even begin to fathom how many man hours were spent organizing AT9, all to just lead up to.. that ending. Neutral

Anyways, grats on the win, you did earn it one way or the other.

Rainarchy
Minmatar
Balcan United Elite
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:14:00 - [150]
 

You have lost all respect you had. Next year I won't bother to watch and that is sad as I really liked this tournament.


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