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blankseplocked Alliance Tournament 9 - The Hydra and 0utbreak Perspective
 
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Victoria Stecker
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.06.22 04:26:00 - [271]
 

I guess there are a couple issues here. To start off, I really respect the amount of time and effort that went into this (both the victory and the jade-esque wall of text). I have no problem with either hydra or outbreak taking home the championship, although the ****up in the final was pretty goddam epic. All that practice and you didn't bother to prepare for that bit?

Anyhow, the bigger issue I have is that, EVE's encouragement of metagaming aside, it still looks like cheating. No disrespect meant to Outbreak, but it basically looks like Hydra fielded two tournament teams in order to double their already good chances of winning. Note that most alliances are only allowed to field one team.

Again, awesome effort, you guys earned the victory - but next time, don't **** up so bad, and make it look a little less like hydra vs hydra, ok? If we'd been allowed to field two teams, maybe we wouldn't have sucked quite so bad.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.06.22 05:46:00 - [272]
 

Originally by: Victoria Stecker
I guess there are a couple issues here. To start off, I really respect the amount of time and effort that went into this (both the victory and the jade-esque wall of text). I have no problem with either hydra or outbreak taking home the championship, although the ****up in the final was pretty goddam epic. All that practice and you didn't bother to prepare for that bit?

Anyhow, the bigger issue I have is that, EVE's encouragement of metagaming aside, it still looks like cheating. No disrespect meant to Outbreak, but it basically looks like Hydra fielded two tournament teams in order to double their already good chances of winning. Note that most alliances are only allowed to field one team.

Again, awesome effort, you guys earned the victory - but next time, don't **** up so bad, and make it look a little less like hydra vs hydra, ok? If we'd been allowed to field two teams, maybe we wouldn't have sucked quite so bad.


Well you could have if you actually had enough skilled pilots to form two teams. Like us, we barely have enough for one team, much less two and we got ****ed. UK has quite a lot of pilots though. But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.

Lord Molly
Posted - 2011.06.22 09:37:00 - [273]
 

Duncan, I love you.

Mograph
Caldari
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs
Posted - 2011.06.22 11:33:00 - [274]
 

I like the tournament final it was funny and shadoo (Peter Griffin) looked angry.

The people who might be angry are the guys who put isk on the line in betting on the winners, I assume this happens, but i didnt make any bets. Fixing the matches is going to **** off the Bookies and the players that put down isk.

As meta gaming / scmas / back room deals are allowed in eve then there what Hydara and Outbreak did was totally legit, but as this Tournament is a special case I think CCP needs to try and do something to stop match fixing in the future.

The AT is a sporting event, not a fight for land or sov or anything else. and as such it should be as fair as possible. Enforcing this fairness however is a different matter. Only way I can see is to ban people found to be match fixing from future events. I doubt it will ever happen though

Pastachick
Posted - 2011.06.22 16:58:00 - [275]
 

Edited by: Pastachick on 22/06/2011 16:58:18
Awesome read.
All the hard work you put in setting everything up gives you the right to get to the top in my opinion and win 2125B Isk.

Inaetia
Posted - 2011.06.22 17:56:00 - [276]
 

Originally by: Kumq uat
But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.

Hydrabreak wins, so obv rules favor big alliances
ahahahahaha rofl

Electra GaafCramo
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:05:00 - [277]
 

Originally by: Mograph
I like the tournament final it was funny and shadoo (Peter Griffin) looked angry.

The people who might be angry are the guys who put isk on the line in betting on the winners, I assume this happens, but i didnt make any bets. Fixing the matches is going to **** off the Bookies and the players that put down isk.

As meta gaming / scmas / back room deals are allowed in eve then there what Hydara and Outbreak did was totally legit, but as this Tournament is a special case I think CCP needs to try and do something to stop match fixing in the future.

The AT is a sporting event, not a fight for land or sov or anything else. and as such it should be as fair as possible. Enforcing this fairness however is a different matter. Only way I can see is to ban people found to be match fixing from future events. I doubt it will ever happen though


I am a bit mad. I did not bet nor have any other kind of affiliation with AT9. I am 100% spectator, and felt ****ed upon by the finalists. It is really that simple, don't wrap your head too much to create illussions.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:08:00 - [278]
 

Originally by: Inaetia
Originally by: Kumq uat
But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.

Hydrabreak wins, so obv rules favor big alliances
ahahahahaha rofl


What I said really had nothing to do with HydraBreak. It more applies to next year. Now that a couple of enterprising alliances have successfully done multiple teams you will see a massive wave of big alliances for AT 10 doing 2,3, maybe even 4 teams at once. They can afford alliance fees, entry fees, and have the depth of pilots to make it happen. Think about what both TEST and Goons will do with this next year. Other alliances. Yeah, that is what I thought. We got a year to think about this, so what can we do to limit this kind of shenanigans for the 10th anniversary tournament.

Trolling removed. Zymurgist

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:51:00 - [279]
 

Edited by: Raimo on 22/06/2011 18:53:47

Originally by: Kumq uat
Originally by: Inaetia
Originally by: Kumq uat
But yeah, it does favor the big alliances quite a bit.

Hydrabreak wins, so obv rules favor big alliances
ahahahahaha rofl


What I said really had nothing to do with HydraBreak. It more applies to next year. Now that a couple of enterprising alliances have successfully done multiple teams you will see a massive wave of big alliances for AT 10 doing 2,3, maybe even 4 teams at once. They can afford alliance fees, entry fees, and have the depth of pilots to make it happen. Think about what both TEST and Goons will do with this next year. Other alliances. Yeah, that is what I thought. We got a year to think about this, so what can we do to limit this kind of shenanigans for the 10th anniversary tournament.

Trolling removed. Zymurgist


Actually, PL and Darkside are probably the only "bigger" alliances who could do it (again) if they wanted to. Most other alliances really don't have the tacticians or pilots for even one competent team on the "alliance" tournament (which would be more aptly named "small gang arena tournament" or somesuch. Most alliances with 1000+ pilots simply don't have many pilots who can execute such combat, or the EFT warriors/conceptualizers. Definitely not the competent small gang FCs. (Such people tend to gravitate towards *not* joining blob alliances ;) )

Okay, Razor did do pretty well this year, I'll grant you that (but it wouldn't have been possible if we didn't facilitate their entering the finals day)

BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...


Tech two
UK1 Zero
Posted - 2011.06.22 22:12:00 - [280]
 

Originally by: Raimo

BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...




And this is just the very problem. Such lack of smaller gang PVP and solo action, because it's too easy to blob up.

Outbreak has like, what 60 people? Fair few of them must be alts or inactive. Yet they can field a team which gets to the final. They specialise in working together in small units, even taking on bigger blobs. Hydra the same, Darkside too.

Low sec and 0.0 need opening up more somehow. But some thought needs to go into this from CCP.

Instead we get years of work so we can log in and look at ourselves slowly walk around a room. A feature 80% of us have already disabled.




Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:29:00 - [281]
 

Originally by: Tech two
Originally by: Raimo

BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...




And this is just the very problem. Such lack of smaller gang PVP and solo action, because it's too easy to blob up.

Outbreak has like, what 60 people? Fair few of them must be alts or inactive. Yet they can field a team which gets to the final. They specialise in working together in small units, even taking on bigger blobs. Hydra the same, Darkside too.

Low sec and 0.0 need opening up more somehow. But some thought needs to go into this from CCP.

Instead we get years of work so we can log in and look at ourselves slowly walk around a room. A feature 80% of us have already disabled.


+1

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.06.22 23:46:00 - [282]
 

Since when have Goons or Test cared about doing things well Raimo? They can basicaly use their guys who actually do that stuff and just dictate what the other teams will do. Chances are they will fail when in combat but the point is these big alliances with multiple teams will squeeze out smaller alliances who may deserve to play. I am of course thinking of Dystopia's welfare in all of this as we do not have the numbers to do but one team in the year and barely those numbers at that but we are proven. As much as I want to miss yet another ****ing tournament after skill training and theory crafting all year because Goons decide to get in they will field 5 teams.

Harrigan VonStudly
Original Sin.
Underworld Excavators
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:10:00 - [283]
 

Excellent read Duncan. I can admit to a tad bit of butt-hurtedness when the tourney finals are done as they were in this case. The tournaments are sort of a sport. And in the end the two best teams face off for soul champions of the world. The same as in American football, hockey, etc...

Having taken the time to write all that you did when you didn't have to says more about you and your alliance than anything else imho. I see apologies, quotes of feeling bad, etc... So to you sir, and your champion alliance, I tip my hat. I have laways had a respect for Hydra and Genos because of the reputation of many of your pilots, past and present. This topic post by you only furthers that respect.

This is a metric **** ton of work required to pull this off. Congratulations to all of you.
HYDRA PRVIL!!!!!0ne1

~Harri out

Nath Blazek
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:46:00 - [284]
 

The bs from this final and the incarna garbage and overpriced NEX shop does not make up for cool turrets. Goodbye eve. Glad I didn't sink 8 years into this piece of trash and representation of the worst of society.

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:50:00 - [285]
 

Originally by: Nath Blazek
The bs from this final and the incarna garbage and overpriced NEX shop does not make up for cool turrets. Goodbye eve. Glad I didn't sink 8 years into this piece of trash and representation of the worst of society.


Hey bro. I think you made a wrong turn and came into the AT forum instead of general to get on the usual post patch I quit train.

Quantumality
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.23 03:36:00 - [286]
 

I think it all comes down to wow...grats Outbreak and Hydra on your win.

Very nice read Duncan, thanks for posting. Also props for all the effort you guys put in to providing awesome fights up to the final. I don't have the ISK to have all those fits, or the dedication to do that much training, and it is cool to see people who do reap the rewards of their time and effort. From your account at least Darkside and PL also put in large amounts of training, and that showed clearly in the tourney as well.

I always love how all the armchair warriors (me included) can say what they would have done differently in the final match (ok, if it were me I would have wiped all but Laedy out then SD'd 0utbreak's gang, but who cares). I haven't seen anyone here realize what most likely happened AT THE TIME when people had to make decisions. Commentators and everyone else are always talking about how the wrong move by a pilot or the wrong decision by a FC can cause a loss.

I can only imagine what was going on the TS3 server during the match when you realized 0utbreak was owning Hydra when it was already agreed Hydra would win the match. I mean seriously, the Hydra setup won in practice, so much so it had to be toned down and the rush had to be extra tanked. You were trying to give the good fight, and no one noticed soon enough that things were going in the wrong direction too fast. It went farther and left you with very few options for a clean finish that still left Hydra with the field. I'm sure all you guys have thought of at least a hundred different ways you could have ended that match better - now that you have actually had time to think about it because it isn't the heat of battle.

Props for being in the position where you didn't have time to think of the best way to finish things because you were fighting a match that both was the envy of any other alliance being able to have (owning both teams in the final) and something CCP will probably work hard towards making sure it can't ever happen again (and likely to the detriment of potential tournament entrants in the future).

Enjoy the prizes, and just hide out on Sisi for a week or so till this blows over.

CCP: thanks for all the work broadcasting this in HD and having some awesome commentators flown in for the matches. There were some truly great fights this tournament. Please keep doing tournaments, but hopefully without swinging the new rules bat harder than necessary. Smile

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.23 05:34:00 - [287]
 

Originally by: Kumq uat
Since when have Goons or Test cared about doing things well Raimo? They can basicaly use their guys who actually do that stuff and just dictate what the other teams will do. Chances are they will fail when in combat but the point is these big alliances with multiple teams will squeeze out smaller alliances who may deserve to play. I am of course thinking of Dystopia's welfare in all of this as we do not have the numbers to do but one team in the year and barely those numbers at that but we are proven. As much as I want to miss yet another ****ing tournament after skill training and theory crafting all year because Goons decide to get in they will field 5 teams.


I bolded the bit that matters, being bad at the game they can not gain any advantage with numbers really. Personally I would be very surprised to have a team that is not very, very confident in their AT abilities trying to field several teams. Then again the game is full of idiots so I could be wrong too :D

Originally by: Misanth
Originally by: Tech two
Originally by: Raimo

BTW this particular "problem" would go away if CCP actually promoted small gang warfare in their game design process for a change. It's the most fun EVE can be, too bad it doesn't make for impressive numbers in marketing...




And this is just the very problem. Such lack of smaller gang PVP and solo action, because it's too easy to blob up.

Outbreak has like, what 60 people? Fair few of them must be alts or inactive. Yet they can field a team which gets to the final. They specialise in working together in small units, even taking on bigger blobs. Hydra the same, Darkside too.

Low sec and 0.0 need opening up more somehow. But some thought needs to go into this from CCP.

Instead we get years of work so we can log in and look at ourselves slowly walk around a room. A feature 80% of us have already disabled.


+1

Yeah, this.

And thanks Harrigan and Quantum (who is one of the few who seems to "get" what happened during the final tbh)

Originally by: Quantumality

Enjoy the prizes, and just hide out in Tanks/HON (small gang yo) until next AT.



FYP

Kumq uat
Posted - 2011.06.23 07:05:00 - [288]
 

Originally by: Raimo


the game is full of idiots





I left the part that is important. The point is these alliances will try and will take spots from more deserving teams.

ohshitohshitohshit
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:19:00 - [289]
 

Edited by: oh****oh****oh**** on 23/06/2011 14:19:25
Originally by: Raimo

Personally I would be very surprised to have a team that is not very, very confident in their AT abilities trying to field several teams. Then again the game is full of idiots so I could be wrong too :D



RvB :D

gorak cz
Thundercats
B O R G
Posted - 2011.06.23 15:17:00 - [290]
 

Great story and showup, big props to you guys.

and to all but hurt whiners : ahahahahahahahahahahah *gasp for air* hahahahahahahaha

Tech two
UK1 Zero
Posted - 2011.06.23 17:35:00 - [291]
 

Originally by: oh****oh****oh****
Edited by: oh****oh****oh**** on 23/06/2011 14:19:25
Originally by: Raimo

Personally I would be very surprised to have a team that is not very, very confident in their AT abilities trying to field several teams. Then again the game is full of idiots so I could be wrong too :D



RvB :D


Good point!

They market themselves as being 1 corp, just split in 2 to fight each other.

They trained together.

No-one went nuts that they were both allowed in. And they are more connected than Hydra/Outbreak.

Lowa
Gallente
North Star Networks
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2011.06.23 20:37:00 - [292]
 

Originally by: Victoria Stecker
...but it basically looks like Hydra fielded two tournament teams in order to double their already good chances of winning. Note that most alliances are only allowed to field one team.

I hope all realize that OB/Hydra wasnt the only ones fielding two teams. And it has been done before.
Not as explicit as this but the under-the-table dealings and rigging have been a huge part of the AT's since day 1.
Its just the illusion that got broken, welcome to EVE - Put up or shut up - its that simple.

Once more, best AT in a long time (across all aspects), its just a question if you have been around and involved enough to appreciate the "small" details.

And I also dont think people realize, from an in-game perspective, how much events such as these will influence the path of peoples motivation for years to come; some will b*** about it - others will silently plan their (perhaps personal) revenge!

And nothing - nothing - in EVE is as sweet as revenge!


/Lowa

Ghostwind
Gallente
Dead Skin Mask
Posted - 2011.06.24 05:57:00 - [293]
 

Yeah, I would also like to see more temp alliances originating from one alliance, and/or show signs of good faith versus old friends. Maybe we can be so lucky to have a tournament where we will see teams folding in each match. Now, that would be some tournament and a reflection of true Eve-online. Maybe we will see some good scripts in the future to provide the perfect entertainment.

Draycen Trell
Amarr
1st Praetorianorum Fabri
Posted - 2011.06.24 17:13:00 - [294]
 

Very interesting post Duncan. There is not much in EVE that is clean and simple, most of it is underhand, dirty and downright scuzzy, and thats just fine.
You guys sure put a lot of work in and for that you earnt you isk.

Both finalists (and all the other contestants) delighted thousands of people with your matches upto the final.
Sadly, no matter how many of your members and fansboys/girls come out to defend your actions, all your hard work undone in a few minutes. You have disapointed thousands of people in your actions.

I am sure there are people who think what you did was great, I am sure your Alliance is full of them, but I know there are many that will be ashamed.
ISK can be begged, borrowed or stolen, reputation is earned. You have gained a lot of ISK and lost a lot of reputation for yourselves, EVE AT and CCP.

Shame.

Taloic
Caldari
Black Watch Regiment
Posted - 2011.06.24 19:06:00 - [295]
 

Originally by: Nath Blazek
The bs from this final and the incarna garbage and overpriced NEX shop does not make up for cool turrets. Goodbye eve. Glad I didn't sink 8 years into this piece of trash and representation of the worst of society.


Can I has you stuff??

Platypus King
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:57:00 - [296]
 

you know, I too like Duncan

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.26 19:45:00 - [297]
 

Originally by: Joe Space
Originally by: Brahan Seer
I thought it was bloody brilliant. Good drama for the whole tournament and a good write up to explain how it all came together.

Seriously I dont know why people are ****ing and moaning about it. It was great entertainment.

Well done guys


i think a lot of people feel trolled by hydra. but as duncan explains very well, hydra took this tournament very seriously and competed hard. hydra competed so hard that both their teams made it to the final, but that's really everybody else's fault isn't it? yes, it is.


Quoted for truth.

I don't see why people are so worked up about this. Hydra put in a lot of work to win this and while metagaming had a part, it's nowhere near as big as some people make it out to be.

But i guess most of those who are complaining about this have bet on PL (or one of their b-teams) to win.

Soul Redemption
Caldari
Euphoria Released
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.08.27 23:07:00 - [298]
 

in the end all the work it took for hydra and outbreak to win this is AMAZING and tbh well deserves them winning and doing wtf we want to do in the final so screw you guys im going home!

and yar i watched the matchs on youtube and i think it was awsome good AT9
stop crying

Lothar Krellum
Minmatar
Oberon Incorporated
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.09.03 11:19:00 - [299]
 

Originally by: Soul Redemption
in the end all the work it took for hydra and outbreak to win this is AMAZING and tbh well deserves them winning and doing wtf we want to do in the final so screw you guys im going home!

and yar i watched the matchs on youtube and i think it was awsome good AT9
stop crying


lol, It would of been easier if you just wrote "bump" Rolling Eyes


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