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El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:50:00 - [211]
 

Hollow pathetic apology

You accomplished nothing today, you only won because your 'friend's outbreak stopped fighting just like how they let Razor advance when there was no need to.

It's a shallowness and patheticness.

Only reason your even apologizing is because its caused such a stir.

Basically one has to wonder why even bother with ATX if this same crap is going to happen again, and its crap. I certainly if I was other alliances not want to put up the entry fee in light of what's happened in this tournament.

Cozmo
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:51:00 - [212]
 

Originally by: Shiroi Okami


Fair enough. We'll see what happens two years from now Very Happy


Looking forward to it =).

Lazerus Bulder
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:51:00 - [213]
 

Edited by: Lazerus Bulder on 20/06/2011 01:20:57
Well. Took a while to read thru the post until this point, and I can understand some of the points made in here, but I think there is missing some.

I watched the Alliance turnement (for the first time) today and had a great time watching the fights….Well most of them.

And here is the problem.
I think CCP and the people that used their spare time to set up this tournament have done a fantastic job.
Yes EVE is EVE. You are a permitted to do scams and tricks with in the universe of EVE and in the spirit of EVE, but the Meta-game has taken on a life of its own. We are noticing alliances DDOS’ing their opponents so they will get and ingame advantage. People are paying Real life money for others to bring down alliances and give up space and now Hydra reloaded joins this gang of people that has taken it too far. CCP need to make it clear that there are things that are not allowed even within and around the EVE universe.
You have used the meta gaming to make a fool of CCP and all the work that people have volunteered for this show and all the fans that has been following it for weeks.

Hydra Reloaded you have written proudly a few times on this thread, ” We are one team. “… Well in this tournament you were only allowed 1 team. You clearly violated the intended setup for this tournament for the sole purpose of trying to fix the outcome. Yes you won a lot of good fights over other great teams and you might have been the best PVP team this year and did a lot of meta-gaming to make this happen, but you entered this tournament with the intend to make a FOOL of CCP, their partners and the fans of alliance tournament.
And for that you should face consequences, I think CCP soundwave and the panel did the right thing to not call out a winner at the live show.

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I am not sure if this is the way to go? but as I see it, you did go about knowingly cheat and deceive CCP, the volunteers on the live stream, the other teams and the Fan’s watching, with your actions and you should expect some kind of response from CCP.



Tony 2fingers
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:52:00 - [214]
 

Edited by: Tony 2fingers on 20/06/2011 00:53:37
Edited by: Tony 2fingers on 20/06/2011 00:53:04
The first 4 minutes was epic, to bad you decided to throw the event.

While i could understand this in a Player sponsored event, it has no place in the Alliance Tournament sponsored by CCP. The first thing that came to my mind was the T20 fiasco. This Official event had real world items being given away by CCP, and for that reason alone, the tourny needs to be kept on the up and up.

The rules need to be amended to make sure this crap ends this year, and we get back to the tourney's of the first 2-3 years, and pilots took pride in showing their skills won the day and not their wallet.

I would also say good deal on your apology, i know that it cant be easy eating crow.

Sig Sour
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:57:00 - [215]
 

Originally by: Shiroi Okami
Fair enough. We'll see what happens two years from now Very Happy

Assuming you guys didn't bury the tournament...

AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.20 00:59:00 - [216]
 

I don't understand the people who are SO butthurt nor do I understand the people who think this was cool.

It was lame. And boring. And within the rules of the tournament.

Next!

Silverized
0utbreak
Outbreak.
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:06:00 - [217]
 


o7 Thanks for watching see you next year.

Pawnee
hirr
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:06:00 - [218]
 

Originally by: ScoRpS
we had alot of respect for all our opponents



I'd like to extend all our respect to all the teams we fought to achieve what we did

till next year...




I like that parts of your post especially. Twisted Evil

Leetah Stormbringerr
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:10:00 - [219]
 

I've been a promoter for this tournament in all the years I have played EvE. Why? Because no other MMO out there puts on a show like this one. A fantastic case of one-up-manship that no other MMO player can compete against. A flagship event that defines what playing EvE is all about.

To those that have been bleating about showing props to the guys that put in the time and practice to get where they were today, I counter with the fact that I too put in time and effort when my old corp went in for a tourney a while back. Only I wasn't going to be in the team, I was there to support the team, as did a number of other pilots in our corp, to give them some one to practice against. To try out tactics and fit against. I gave money to the team fund to help them on their way, took part in corp ops to fund the team, and if memory serves they got knocked out in the quarter finals. So what? You put the time in, gratz. So did I.

I have 2 problems with the Final this year. With regard to what I started out saying... I won't be doing this again, as that Final just made a mockery of all I have said about EvE and the AT. I refuse to apologise for other people's mistakes. So it's not like I can then say... gonna watch the tourney? It's superb! Live Stream of the fights, commentators and experts talking about the matches! PvP at it's best. This is what EvE's all about... hmmm, yeah, there IS some back handed dealings... oh and a bit of spying, and bribery... true, sorry, yeah you're right, it's like the rest of internet based games, where there is no honour, no personal pride, no gamesmanship, people have no integrity.

THe second problem, is how the hell did CCP allow 2 teams from the same Alliance in there? You have, in effect, taken the place of a team that could also have done as well as you did, but due to the lottery that takes place to decide who should be in the play offs, couldn't get through, because your Alliance was greedy? Sorry? Why the hell should you get away with that either?

I'm glad the Studio team closed off as fast as they did without making comment. It means they too realised what a mockery you and your conceited brethren in Outbreak just made of this years competition. As usual with any of the Meta-Gaming taking place in this game, it's the ordinary player that loses out. Thank you for adding the Alliance Tournament to the infamous list of Meta-Gaming fails.


Swynet
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:12:00 - [220]
 

@ Lazerus

Well not go that far.

What's done it's done you don't come back. Now, those teams have done a great job against their "real" opponents and nobody can take that away from them but the evident meta gaming ruined the event, they apologise and it's honest but what's done it's done.

CCP "should" show to those teams the same respect they had in return for all efforts and personal investment, people taking from their personal rest time share their opinions their projects, show the respect they have for their players community.

I'm not convinced those teams/players ever realised that almost 30 thousand people were behind their screen watching them and waiting from them other stuff than we've seen and see every minute spent on Eve: meta gaming, arrangements etc etc and etc

Some of them realised people, and I mean a lot of people, starting from CCP right to the other side of the screen got ****ed by those meta **** stuff, they apologise but it's a little too late, the community is harsh just like Eve Wink

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:18:00 - [221]
 

Originally by: Lazerus Bulder

I am not sure if this is the way to go? but as I see it, you did go about knowingly cheat and deceive CCP, the volunteers on the live stream, the other teams and the Fan’s watching, with your actions and you should expect some kind of response from CCP.



Incorrect. Hydra and 0utbreak did not break a single rule in the tournament. Lying is not disallowed.

That is all.

Psychotic Sidekick
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:23:00 - [222]
 

Originally by: Rastino
Never apologise for something like this.
You just made the best troll so far this year… I love you for it.


Eight pages of butthurt and still going strong!
I am almost having as much fun reading the QQ as I did watching the tournament Razz

Heinrich'von'Thrak
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:24:00 - [223]
 

Originally by: Karles
Originally by: Jean'Luc Pi card
Well, what i learned in eve so far is, that one of the higher goals of this game is to **** people off. you scam them, you canflip them, you hulkageddon them, you hotdrop them and so on. but when hydra does **** off 20k internet spaceship lovers at once the hate cascade of the 'though' guys starts. gooood job hydra. all the whiners go play hello kitty online.


Is this your reccomendation card for your application to Hydra? Because if you think that eve is this, you should be joining them right now. Several thousands of players do not think this is what eve is ment to be.


have u ever been outside of carebearland? eve is not a very 'nice' game. its not very happyend-ish. well, you might hate movies where not the shiny white knights win in the end. i don't like them a lot either. but in eve the 'antagonists', the evil puppy eating killermachines can win the day and do it in a way that ****es 30.000 people like you off. and even better... they not even violate the 'rules' with that. isn't this awesome?

Fuamnach
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:25:00 - [224]
 

Originally by: Swynet
Now, those teams have done a great job against their "real" opponents and nobody can take that away from them but the evident meta gaming ruined the event, they apologise and it's honest but what's done it's done.


Let's try to be a bit more precise.

Throwing the final match is NOT "meta-gaming." It's throwing a final match. And thumbing one's nose at the Tournament, CCP, EVE, and all the rest of us, the viewing audience.

Spying and maneuvering in playoff brackets, including throwing matches, is meta-gaming worthy of the name. And a very different beast, practiced, though not without objection, in most competitive sports.

The proper response to objectionable meta-gaming is to change the rules for the next round.

The proper response to throwing a final match and thumbing one's nose at the sport and its fans is what happened the 8 Chicago White Sox who threw the 1919 World Series. They were shamed and banned for life.

Ms Tragula
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:25:00 - [225]
 

The final was pretty embarrassing to watch and I did feel sorry for the people at EVE TV, especially the match commentators who were obliged to talk it up as a climactic triumph while it all kind of fizzled and went a bit wrong before our eyes.

That said, I love the metagame aspect of EVE and I do think it belongs in the tournament, I'm just a little uncomfortable with the extent of collusion you guys showed, two supposedly separate teams that consider themselves a single unit does seem to border on breach of the spirit of the tourney rules, if not the letter. Then again both teams did beat every legitimate contender on finals day, 6 teams in total, hard to take that away from you.

I don't think anyone can legitimately claim either team didn't deserve to be in the final, you just messed it up a bit and admitted it in the forums, I take the apology at face value.


Finally, I do understand why people would be angered by the final but I simply do not believe anything like even 5% of the people saying 'I won't watch the tourney next year' will follow through on that, if they're still playing EVE they'll be watching it. I can buy that CCP won't be best pleased from a PR perspective, but I've seen a little bit of the differences between what people say and what they do in life and I am not buying the idea of an exodus of tourney viewers based on this final. Frankly anyone still upset about it in a year's time needs to seriously consider therapy.

Lyrrashae
Minmatar
Crushed Ambitions
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:40:00 - [226]
 

Originally by: Sarmatiko
You know some girls can work out for new sport cars only with their mouth, but this will not make them respectable or not disgusting, even if they will apologize for this for the rest of their lives. Your alliances are just the same. Dont spit on the community or you will drown from response ugh


This.

I wonder just how literal that is in this case, too.

/me chuckles ugh

Sugar Ray
Caldari
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:42:00 - [227]
 

Most people will watch again, next year and the year after. However this was not the way to win a tournament.

That is the bottom line.

At least the EVE TV studio panel refused to give the credit, as most of the EVE community has.

Regardless of what damage control 0utbreak and Hydra try to spin, they done themselves more damage, at least the OP recognises that and has been honest enough (and brave) to post their honest opinion.

Can't change what is done, the right thing is not to do it again, next time. Fight fair and earn your respect.

Peace x

Suitonia
Gallente
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:47:00 - [228]
 

Originally by: El'Niaga
Hollow pathetic apology

You accomplished nothing today, you only won because your 'friend's outbreak stopped fighting just like how they let Razor advance when there was no need to.



We "only won" because we defeated every other team in the tournament, and so did Outbreak, for us to pull this maneuver off in the first place.

Vaarun
Amarr
The Night Crew
Posted - 2011.06.20 01:56:00 - [229]
 

You can wipe your tears with all those multi-billion isk BPC's...I'm sure that will ease the pain.

If you are sincere in this apology, then work with CCP to fix it....somehow. A win like this is a screaming hole in the rules.

That being said, getting both teams to the final took skill and guile even though those traits were severely lacking in the final itself....or did they epitomize them in a "win-at-all-costs" sort of way? Tomato-Tamahtoh, I guess.

Why waste the ships anyway? Had our snowballs not all melted, I'm sure you would have fitted those ;).

"Congratulations"

You WON..that's all that matters, really, right?

Half Cocked Jack
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:00:00 - [230]
 

I can't decide whether I think you guys suck or rock because of this, so I'll just say that you must construct additional pylons.

El'Niaga
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:06:00 - [231]
 

Originally by: Suitonia
Originally by: El'Niaga
Hollow pathetic apology

You accomplished nothing today, you only won because your 'friend's outbreak stopped fighting just like how they let Razor advance when there was no need to.



We "only won" because we defeated every other team in the tournament, and so did Outbreak, for us to pull this maneuver off in the first place.


You didn't win the final. Not in my viewpoint and not in a lot of peoples.

Outbreak had you solidly beat, until they just stopped firing and turned off their tanks so Lady could kill them one by one. It was really pathetic.

No more freebies through prequalfyings either should be allowed. If this is what your going to do with your free passes through prequalfying you can just field a team and fight it out just like everyone else.

Melissa Achasse
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:07:00 - [232]
 

Two teams fight their way through the tournament brackets to the finals.
One finals team essentially throws match to other team.
That doesn't change the fact that they both battled their way through all the other teams to be in the position to do that.
Where's the cheat? I don't get what people are so upset about.

Obviously Confidential
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:08:00 - [233]
 

Apologies not accepted because they were not necessary in the first place.

You guys earned it with your effort and are free to do whatever you want with your own achievements. Just like everyone else.

Thank you for apologizing even though it was unnecessary - it shows character on top of all the rest that you already have, those things that make you guys tournament winners.

Congratulations and thank you for the show. ALL OF IT.

Minigin
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:12:00 - [234]
 

all hail the ched king.

Sugar Ray
Caldari
Ammo and Tag
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:12:00 - [235]
 

Edited by: Sugar Ray on 20/06/2011 02:20:31
Originally by: Suitonia
We "only won" because we defeated every other team in the tournament, and so did Outbreak, for us to pull this maneuver off in the first place.

Yes but the respect you had gained, vanished, once it was obvious what was happening.

Was winning like that worth it? You may yes, but in time most will say, 'You know, probably not'.

Not flaming here, just calling it the way it is.

PS And no, I don't expect anyone affiliated with what happened to agree (apart from the OP, of course).

Erichk Knaar
Caldari
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:13:00 - [236]
 

Well played to both HR and Outbreak. You could have at least put on a better show, however. Having said that, the answer is simple...

No second place prizes next AT.

Nocte Katelo
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:16:00 - [237]
 

Having corp members replying to this thread and defending the events of today undermines the sentiments of the original poster. Just saying...maybe Hydra Reloaded needs to get their story straight internally before posting anything on the forums. Once you decide your true feelings on the matter, post again and tell your members not to contradict it in ignorant replies.

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:19:00 - [238]
 

Originally by: Vaarun

If you are sincere in this apology, then work with CCP to fix it....somehow. A win like this is a screaming hole in the rules.



It is not a hole in the rules. Metagaming, drama, betrayal, comradery, and all that are parts of the game. I personally enjoyed the metagaming as much as the physical PVP, throughout the tourney. Who are you to decide that it's supposed to only be about physical PVP?

Erim Solfara
Amarr
inFluX.
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:25:00 - [239]
 

I can understand why you did it, and why people are frustrated.

You said you would do one thing, turned up, STARTED doing it, and then decided not to. If OB wanted to show Hydra their appreciation, they shouldn't have turned up in a serious fit and started winning, it should've been a comedy match.

If you were going to fight properly, it should've been seen through!


Personally, I'd have announced beforehand that the plan was for everyone to set the self destruct timers at the kick off, and see if a team could win in 120 seconds or less! : D

It looked to me like outbreak could've managed it too : P

Sapphire Fangborn
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.20 02:27:00 - [240]
 

Edited by: Sapphire Fangborn on 20/06/2011 02:32:09

Since I'm a new player, this is the first time I've seen an Eve Tournament. Overall, I very much enjoyed the experience. The company made a very good quality presentation.

Re the final match, is it true that Pandemic Legion tried something like this in a previous match? I understand all the anti chat about the outcome and how it happened, and yet.. Generally speaking, it seems that in Eve plotting and underhandedness are common gameplay tactics rather than forbidden behaviours. So now it's come down (maybe) to how much scheming is permissible during tournaments. Complicated stuff! I'm rather neutral on this, though I hope the Lady at the end was badass. Don't want too many of the women in Eve to be wusses like me. :p

This event gave newer players like me a chance to see exciting ships and interesting tactics that I'm rather clueless about (combat noob), and for that it rocks. :D I'll watch next year - the drama has not chased me away. It's fun to see how invested players are in the outcome. I'm starting to get an idea about why this community is great. ;) Even though opposites are like night and day, they sure do care a lot about this game.

Sapph


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