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blankseplocked What would you expect to get for $99?
 
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WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.06.17 09:54:00 - [1]
 

Lets put all rage worthy thoughts aside for a moment and pose the simple question; What would CCP need to provide us with to make us part with a yearly 3rd Party Developer License, costing $99?

My suggestions would be;

1) $99/year - Commercial 3rd Party Developer (For use to charge RL monies for your product)

  • Developer Portal Access (Linked to my eve-o account would be nice, but not needed in the least)

  • Access to common API scenarios that may transpire, without having to build in local XML support. (The ability to customise this type of feed could be sweet.) It could also record any errors (in url formatting, for example) that may be encountered.

  • Part of a 3rd Party Developer list on the eve-o site. (So people know that we're in the least serious about it. Have some legal jargon saying that we may all be cereal (yes, cereal) killers and that CCP can't be held responsible if we get access to your anime collection.)

  • Proper API documentation. A wiki is for information to and from users. The API is static. Make the distinction.

  • A cool '3rd Dev' tag on the new forums. Very Happy (Unlikely, but hey.)



For the sake of argument, the free license would look something like;

2) Free - 3rd Party Developer (To use if you require ISK payments)

  • Developer Portal Access

  • Proper API docs.



Please temper your wants with the knowledge that CCP is a business and they are in now way required to run the API server. Let's all play nice and give CCP a list of awesome ideas from awesome people.

Azazel Mordred
Minmatar
Cloak of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.17 10:48:00 - [2]
 

Unfortunately as an open source developer who makes zero $$ or ISK (with no intention of ever charging for either) off his project, I guess I'll be classified as a second class 3rd party developer.

The thing that bugs me is that there are loads of commercial entities which offer their APIs and data to the public for free as value added services. They don't require additional licensing and fees to access their stuff, they know that by offering these bits of data and access to their services, they are adding value to their own product!

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:25:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 17/06/2011 16:26:04
$99/year?

1. 1 hour refresh rate on all API calls including Assets.

2. All market data available by API direct from CCP and no screwing around.

3. Loot API - listing of all assets in the cargo hold of individual ships by characterid and/or fleet.

-That- would be worth $99/year. Anything less, meh.

Matalino
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:50:00 - [4]
 

I would expect to be able to sell a product that is based on Eve and keep any profit in excess of the $99 fee for myself.

If I am not selling my product, then I would be using the fee non-commercial 3rd party developer license.

Lutz Major
Posted - 2011.06.17 18:45:00 - [5]
 

  • Proper support and documentation (no 'as is' status!)
  • Additional PI (!) /BPO (!!!) / contract / loot ... APIs
  • A RESTful approach (for that I'd pay even a bit more!) to put new skills into the queue, send money, accept contracts or write mails
  • A subsription based info, when changes to the API are made loooong before they go productive
  • (shorter caching times for subscribers)
  • easy check, which type of API key I have (is coming with the new customizational keys)
  • to be continued ...

Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
Posted - 2011.06.17 20:55:00 - [6]
 

Website hosting.

Fred Eto
Posted - 2011.06.17 21:23:00 - [7]
 

a friggin' pony!

Etil DeLaFuente
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:05:00 - [8]
 

A real API, not that joke of xml export

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:47:00 - [9]
 

Let's not forget the very basic: a free EVE Online account is included, which is needed in order to access the API in the first place.

I already pay a "license fee" (monthly subscription) of roughly $204/year in order to be able to access the API.

That or make the API accessable again from inactive accounts, like it was for a long tine when the API first was released.

But that turned out to be a "bug", just like ghost training, and was subsequently disabled later on. Rolling Eyes

Zeta Zhul
Caldari
Preemptive Paranoia
Posted - 2011.06.18 23:59:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Fred Eto
a friggin' pony!


A unicorn! That farts Skittles!

Serene Python
Posted - 2011.06.19 02:11:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Serene Python on 19/06/2011 02:13:01
CCP StevieSG and CCP Sunset in my "captains quarters"...
















Realistically? Actually being able to have control over the API so I can hide parts of the api call such as my confidential eve-mails I can't delete(no clue if this even works)
* being able to see contracts that were successfully completed by myself
* being able to send mail through the api instead of just being able to read
* None of this 1hr waiting to refresh certain API bull****.
* For the near $10 a month fee that would be applied to this... I want LIVE market data from EVE.
* Majority of everything that's already been said in this thread.

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Let's not forget the very basic: a free EVE Online account is included, which is needed in order to access the API in the first place.

I already pay a "license fee" (monthly subscription) of roughly $204/year in order to be able to access the API.

That or make the API accessable again from inactive accounts, like it was for a long tine when the API first was released.

But that turned out to be a "bug", just like ghost training, and was subsequently disabled later on. Rolling Eyes


This... Big time. We shouldn't need to pay additional money to access what the licence is supposed to be used for. I should be able to let my account run out while I'm making some super awesome big application that requires my time.

TorTorden
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.19 21:15:00 - [12]
 

Quote:

* For the near $10 a month fee that would be applied to this... I want LIVE market data from EVE.
* Majority of everything that's already been said in this thread.

This, and ccp sending me a 'hooker-telegram' everytime api services stop working...

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.19 21:32:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 19/06/2011 21:34:57
Step back a bit from the neat developer expectations and try acting as a business. Because that's what you become if you go commercial.

First of all you have to consider whether you also have to pay additional money because the platform you develop for, has some payware license program to join. IE another $99 to add.

Then you have to see how your country manages the deal. In my case I'd be required to open a small company. Before even starting I know I'd have to pay 43% or so of the revenue in taxes, about 500 euros for startup paperwork and 721 euros every 3 months for obligatory pension fund.

Last but not least, what is your application for and can you ever hope to make a profit?

IE Apple have millions of potential and rich customers.
CCP have some tens of thousands unique customers and many are students or playing from less rich countries and often save by paying with PLEX.

The only apps that would stand a chance are super-generalistic ones like an EvEMon or EFT replacement. Your neat Tech III spreadsheet or moon reactions calculators have NO CHANCE IN HELL to ever break even.
What after the first 3-4 payware clones of EvEMon and EFT are out and become mainstream? All the others will have an hard competition and prices will likely crash.

Basically, I don't believe in the economic feasibility of this licensing plan, not in the medium and long run.

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:27:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Zifrian
Website hosting.



this.

WisdomPanda
Goatriders Horde
The Scapegoats
Posted - 2011.06.21 17:14:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
Let's not forget the very basic: a free EVE Online account is included, which is needed in order to access the API in the first place.

I already pay a "license fee" (monthly subscription) of roughly $204/year in order to be able to access the API.

That or make the API accessable again from inactive accounts, like it was for a long tine when the API first was released.

But that turned out to be a "bug", just like ghost training, and was subsequently disabled later on. Rolling Eyes



In fairness, I asked what you would want for a $99/year license, not why you feel the price isn't right. Smile

I think people need to take a step back and try and look at pushing the message to CCP of what most of us want; If we are open source developers, we don't want to be touched. However, having the option... option (repeated to make the meaning clear) to legally make money off a service/product would be a nice incentive. If that license came with some tools to help my open source development, I'd probably foot the bill anyways, since I know it'd cost them in time/resource to make/maintain the tools.

Just my 2c.

Acadia Prime
Posted - 2011.06.21 18:53:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Acadia Prime on 21/06/2011 18:53:46
[in before boo hiss ... evil]

I don't like the idea of paying for API access but, if I did pay for it I think that EVE should accept that bots exist and open the API to bi-directional traffic for commonly automated areas of the game.

As an example, market updates from the API should be real time, as should asset updates but for $99/yr developers should also be able to place buy/sell orders via the API, create contracts etc.

*and ... * proper (reliable) documentation.

Just my 2 cents.

Ruziel
Minmatar
Twilight Military Industrial Complex
Posted - 2011.06.21 20:52:00 - [17]
 

How about an up-to-date database dump release with every patch, or at least diffs when they've only added or tweaked a few things, like ships or new BPOs.


Ikaef Giasep
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:01:00 - [18]
 

my 2 cents:
- a real API as SOAP based web services that also allows to change certain data (limited to the time when the corresponding player was not logged in the game as a person and also limited to same rate of actions per hour as a human player would be able do)
- consistent data, e.g. transactions, journal, marketorders, industry jobs and assets in sync in a single transactional call or if that was not possible at synched timestamps
- push instead of poll for certain API calls, e.g. skill completion (why polling every hour for completion of a skill that is supposed to run for days?)
- extensive documentation provided by CCP
- backwards compatibility (no disruptive features, could be done in the same way as e.g. DirectX handles that)
- a release-based approach as a process that deserves the name, e.g. API 1.0, API 1.1, etc. with features being announced way before they go live. We pay for the license. That means that CCP should be obliged not to break our applications by short notice changes such as the "sorry guys, expired marketorders won't be supplied anymore" notice 2 days before go-live
- dedicated resources within CCP to fix bugs in a timely manner
- completion of missing key features (contracts, bpo/bpc, market data, etc)
- phone and email support
- possibility to certify an application as being CCP approved
- possibility to pay for the license by using PLEX (this makes a commercial license attractive to alliances who desperately need the API to coordinate things, such as for POS fuel, timers, forum access, teamspeak access, killboard, ship replacement program, etc)

Xander Hunt
Minmatar
Dead Rats Tell No Tales
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:36:00 - [19]
 

I'd like to see a change in policy on who is charged the $99.

In *ALL* cases, if you develop software for EVE, you must provide a working URL to the landing page of your service, or, the landing page to enable users to GET to the service you wish to provide.

To make things simple:
- Non-donation - No fee applied regardless of how many people use the service
- Donation - ISK - $24 yearly fee
- Donation - Real World money - $49 yearly fee
- Pay-wall - ISK - $75 yearly fee
- Pay-wall - Real World Money - $99 yearly fee

Each "tier" I mention would have different levels of access. For instance, the non-donation version may be allowed to hit the API service once an hour for any single type of transaction per hour. IE: One transaction per toon per hour to look up wallet info. As things go do into more expensive features, more frequent requests can be made.

Things I'd want to have, based on the above time limitations:
- Current market buy/sell prices on a particular range of items based on particular itemID, groupID, market type, etc. Don't allow active purchases via the API - That'd be begging for bot activity, however, it'd be great in terms of eliminating bots, and CCP would get to keep the cash they made from the disabled account. (No refund policy)
- Have the container names in asset list so we can easily find what fuels are in a POS, what items are in a corp hangar, where the container is (Nearest to would be alright - Wouldn't expect X/Y/Z coordinates) etc. (Seriously, I can't see why the game can figure out what the name of the container is, but the API can't?)
- Have a forum set aside that requires a particular flag on a users account set aside for developers to communicate in. Basically non-public access.
- Better documentation on some of the API calls

Thats all I can think of for right now.


 

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