open All Channels
seplocked Warfare & Tactics
blankseplocked fixing fw.....trolling is expecting
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6

Author Topic

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.18 08:54:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: chatgris
And this is why I suggest removing fw missions. Then plexes are like missions with a built in mechanism for the other side able to fail your mission.

With plexes and NPCs being as broken (Ex. AB frig can close any and all Gall/Amarr plexes) as they are it would never work, not to mention it forces combat pilots to spend hours clawing their eyes out to make ISK.
Originally by: Bluejacket CT
Remove plexes and missions in their entirety. Make occupancy based on kills!

Does the blobs need more encouragement? If occupancy is directly tied to ship destruction then you make having a superior fleet (ie. numbers) mandatory which leads to blue balls.
Plus the fact that the only systems that would ever be in play are the ones in the pipes between militia HQ's as I don't see why people would travel X jumps in random direction and camp a system that is empty 22/7.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.18 20:04:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: chatgris
And this is why I suggest removing fw missions. Then plexes are like missions with a built in mechanism for the other side able to fail your mission.

With plexes and NPCs being as broken (Ex. AB frig can close any and all Gall/Amarr plexes) as they are it would never work, not to mention it forces combat pilots to spend hours clawing their eyes out to make ISK.


See my first post in this thread here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1529441&page=1#8 . I'm quite well aware of the npc imbalances etc, as listed at the link.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.18 21:04:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: chatgris
See my first post in this thread here: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1529441&page=1#8 . I'm quite well aware of the npc imbalances etc, as listed at the link.

Didn't see your edit. Question is if it is worth it making those changes and then not actually going all the way with a meaningful system as a whole.

It must be incredibly hard to remove eWar from rats since CCP hasn't done it yet despite most of FW asking for it since a few weeks into the wars ..
If they were to make those changes then I'd rather they change the way plexes work (ie. sans timers) entirely, those bloody timers have been the cause of most of the game-breaking bugs in FW (cloaking capture, auto-running timer, frozen timers, backwards running timer etc.)

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.19 01:28:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida

Originally by: Bluejacket CT
Remove plexes and missions in their entirety. Make occupancy based on kills!


Does the blobs need more encouragement? If occupancy is directly tied to ship destruction then you make having a superior fleet (ie. numbers) mandatory which leads to blue balls.


Blue balls = a lack of kills, which means that the fleet is too big to attract a decent fight. It's a problem that corrects itself.

Originally by: Emperor Cheney

Extremely exploitable. Occupancy would be effectively determined by who has more spare time and who is more willing to metagame. More than it already is, I mean.


Dedication isn't an exploit, every competition in the game boils down to who is dedicated and skilled enough to get what they want.


Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.06.19 01:33:00 - [35]
 

I mean exploitable in the sense that I could just kill my alt a hundred times, and win the system.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.19 04:12:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: chatgris

And this is why I suggest removing fw missions. Then plexes are like missions with a built in mechanism for the other side able to fail your mission.
A very BORING mechanic for failing a very BORING mission.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.19 05:25:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2011 05:34:02

For those that argue about getting rid of FW missions and instead giving rewards for plexing, what makes you think it would be any different with the farmers from how it is now?

We already see or have seen tons of noob alts farming plexes back in the day with barely any skills using recyclable noob alts. Meaning if it's rewarding people will figure out a way to farm them just as they do missions, WH's, high sec lvl 4's ect..ect..

Added to this how should the other 50% of FW members make their ISk once the after DT crew farms them out for the day? Are the guys that log in later in the day just **** out of luck because we know CCP will likely never fix the spawn mechanics.

Last of all what is real the problem with FW missions? I see people whine about them all the time and TBH I really don't see why. Yes there are farmers, just like anything else, so what's whats difference from any other way to ISK grind and why does it affect you so much? TBH I think the only problem is it's not "easy" to gank them and takes a bit of luck & skill added with patience, something that 90% of EVE player base does not have.

TBH, I only wish there was a way to do FW missions in a PVP ship. When I first started doing them way back on the Minmatar side, I used to use a BC and had a decent amount of fights in them. Now days it's just too hard to move a BC around in any efficient manor to make it reasonable so bomber is the best option.

Owena Owoked
Posted - 2011.06.19 07:15:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Mutnin
Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2011 05:34:02

For those that argue about getting rid of FW missions and instead giving rewards for plexing, what makes you think it would be any different with the farmers from how it is now?

We already see or have seen tons of noob alts farming plexes back in the day with barely any skills using recyclable noob alts. Meaning if it's rewarding people will figure out a way to farm them just as they do missions, WH's, high sec lvl 4's ect..ect..

Added to this how should the other 50% of FW members make their ISk once the after DT crew farms them out for the day? Are the guys that log in later in the day just **** out of luck because we know CCP will likely never fix the spawn mechanics.

Last of all what is real the problem with FW missions? I see people whine about them all the time and TBH I really don't see why. Yes there are farmers, just like anything else, so what's whats difference from any other way to ISK grind and why does it affect you so much? TBH I think the only problem is it's not "easy" to gank them and takes a bit of luck & skill added with patience, something that 90% of EVE player base does not have.

TBH, I only wish there was a way to do FW missions in a PVP ship. When I first started doing them way back on the Minmatar side, I used to use a BC and had a decent amount of fights in them. Now days it's just too hard to move a BC around in any efficient manor to make it reasonable so bomber is the best option.

The problem with FW is purely mission farmers. If CCP would remove FW missions from the game or make them more like incursions on contested systems there would be more dependency on the militia as a whole and FW would be better. I used to think that I was a person that loved PVP and that is why I put my corp into FW, but after seeing the pointless banality of it all I was disenfranchised.

What is the point of fighting for something if that something holds zero influence over anything in the game. I mean sure I could go to frog highsec and kill their mission runners, but what out come does that have on the war? Answer, none. CCP gave us a great base, but left it at that. It is base content the draws people to FW and then eventually drives them away from it. In my case I quit the game again because with all the high hopes I had for EVE for a simple non-alliance way to get large scale PVP they left me hanging.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.19 09:30:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2011 09:34:56

Originally by: Owena Owoked
The problem with FW is purely mission farmers. If CCP would remove FW missions from the game or make them more like incursions on contested systems there would be more dependency on the militia as a whole and FW would be better. I used to think that I was a person that loved PVP and that is why I put my corp into FW, but after seeing the pointless banality of it all I was disenfranchised.

What is the point of fighting for something if that something holds zero influence over anything in the game. I mean sure I could go to frog highsec and kill their mission runners, but what out come does that have on the war? Answer, none. CCP gave us a great base, but left it at that. It is base content the draws people to FW and then eventually drives them away from it. In my case I quit the game again because with all the high hopes I had for EVE for a simple non-alliance way to get large scale PVP they left me hanging.


Ok so you are saying the problem with FW is purely FW missions yet you don't say why they are such a huge problem. I've been in FW pretty much since I started playing this game and long before FW missions were buffed. Somethings have changed and somethings have stayed the same.

One thing I can tell for 100% certainly is that other FW mission runners have zero effect on my PVP or game time other than I might catch a WT in a mission from time to time. Hence I can't understand why you think FW missions are somehow what is wrong with FW.

So what if some guy flys around in a cloaking bomber making ISK. Do all he cloaky haulers running around low sec also ruin it? What about all those guys in high sec grinding missions 23/7 do they also somehow affect your gaming experience?

It's simple ignore them, move on and find a target you can shoot at & have some fun. Who gives a crap what some guy in a cloaky bomber is doing as long as he's not shooting your ship.

As for meaningless PVP, well that's the entire point of FW for a large number of us. I understand that this might be hard to get, but there is a large number of us that just like to blow ships up for no reason other than the guy is a WT.

Not that I have anything against having PVP "mean something" but if that's all you are after, then go join some null sec alliance and go shoot POS's, SOV structures and wake up for CTA's at 4 am, because the PVP means you lose your station rights.

Meanwhile I'll continue to have mindless PVP in FW, because the above sounds not so fun to me. Laughing




Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.19 09:34:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Owena Owoked
The problem with FW is purely mission farmers....

Huh!?!

The problems are:
- A convoluted, buggy and unbalanced plexing system.
- Too easy and lucrative missions.
- Inconsistent GM rulings (neuts are fine as tanks in missions but not plexes even if reasoning is same, WTF!).
- Keeping alliances out even when most RP in eve is alliance based (Veto, U'K, CVA, EM, SF etc.).

Personally like the fact that I can take a day off and make ISK to last me a month or more. It is just so easy that farmers have overrun the damn place.

Assign a LP value to ship kills and plexes. Put that LP in escrow to be redeemed upon mission completion.
- Forces farmers out while leaving missions as income source for active militia members.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.19 11:54:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: chatgris on 19/06/2011 11:56:31
Originally by: Mutnin

For those that argue about getting rid of FW missions and instead giving rewards for plexing, what makes you think it would be any different with the farmers from how it is now?



Because farmers would need to compete with pvpers, and more importantly, other farmers for their rewards. Someone who came in a pvp ship could seize the plex the farmer was working on.

Originally by: Mutnin

We already see or have seen tons of noob alts farming plexes back in the day with barely any skills using recyclable noob alts. Meaning if it's rewarding people will figure out a way to farm them just as they do missions, WH's, high sec lvl 4's ect..ect..



Yes, but it will be more competitive. You can't do another person's mission. You can take, and complete for reward, another person's plex. Consider the current situation:

You find someone's mission. You chase them out. They go somewhere else until you get bored and finish the mission later.

Consider the improved situation:

You find someone in a plex. You chase them out. If they come back, you get pvp. If they go somewhere else, you wait and complete the plex making LP/ISK.

Originally by: Mutnin

Added to this how should the other 50% of FW members make their ISk once the after DT crew farms them out for the day? Are the guys that log in later in the day just **** out of luck because we know CCP will likely never fix the spawn mechanics.



Fixing spawn mechanics, NPC balance are crucial for the plex replacing missions to succeed. If CCP won't fix these issues, they should not replace missions with plexes.

Originally by: Mutnin

Last of all what is real the problem with FW missions? I see people whine about them all the time and TBH I really don't see why. Yes there are farmers, just like anything else, so what's whats difference from any other way to ISK grind and why does it affect you so much? TBH I think the only problem is it's not "easy" to gank them and takes a bit of luck & skill added with patience, something that 90% of EVE player base does not have.



It's a pure pve activity in what is supposed to be a pvp portion of the game. It's my belief that the mechanics of fw should be pvp centric.

The mission runner has to severely screw up to be caught. I've made about 80B ISK running fw missions through all hours of the day, and have never lost a ship to players. I didn't run a stealth bomber, I flew a dominix (pre location nerf) or a gila usually solo (because it's more profitable that way, no alts along for the ride), sometimes for 36 hours straight on a weekend.

Originally by: Mutnin

TBH, I only wish there was a way to do FW missions in a PVP ship. When I first started doing them way back on the Minmatar side, I used to use a BC and had a decent amount of fights in them. Now days it's just too hard to move a BC around in any efficient manor to make it reasonable so bomber is the best option.



Moving a BC around is hard? I roam alone or with 2-3 people in a drake pretty much anytime I am playing. I used to rat in syndicate for hours in a drake as well. Moving a BC in lowsec is easy.

I do agree on the missions should be doable in a PVP ship. I joined the TLF to experiment, and I could do those missions in a pvp ship, was great fun. However, the issue still stays that someone who is just there to farm, you can't mess with them at all. It'd be great if there was a way to fail their mission, say a timer or something. But then, it's just a plex and hence my suggestion to remove missions and give rewards for plexes (along with fixing the damn plexing mechanics).

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.19 12:14:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: chatgris
Consider the improved situation:

You find someone in a plex. You chase them out. If they come back, you get pvp. If they go somewhere else, you wait and complete the plex making LP/ISK.

I think this is why people don't like the idea, it is a colossal waste of time.

I find someone in a major plex with five minutes remaining, he runs: I can now find some other shadow to chase or sit on my ass for 35 minutes to get some LP.

You'd need to make the LP/minute insanely high to make it worthwhile, but do that and you get even more alts swarming the FW zones.

It simply won't work.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.19 12:31:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: chatgris on 19/06/2011 12:31:13
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: chatgris
Consider the improved situation:

You find someone in a plex. You chase them out. If they come back, you get pvp. If they go somewhere else, you wait and complete the plex making LP/ISK.

I think this is why people don't like the idea, it is a colossal waste of time.

I find someone in a major plex with five minutes remaining, he runs: I can now find some other shadow to chase or sit on my ass for 35 minutes to get some LP.


This is exactly why I think it will work to improve FW. Right now, you chase someone out of the plex - it's a colossal waste of time to close the plex. If plexes are the only way to get LP, then you have actually achieved a victory by closing the plex, instead of wasting 35 minutes of your life. It might even make people fight for plexes.

It's my general view that plexes give a refreshing take on pvp over the gate/station humping (with appropriate fixes to plexes), and incentives to allow them to promote pvp would be good. Plexes also force people to move out of their comfort zone in the pipes. The entire point of giving the plexes a reward is so that if you chase someone out of a plex and spend the 35 minutes closing it - You win, not lose.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.19 14:06:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 19/06/2011 14:07:05
Actually I agree with chatgris. We can have somebody run a plex down to 1 minute and then wait for all of our friends to pile in for the VP/LP rewards and we can all make a ton of isk for very little overall effort.

What?! You want LP rewards for a plex FIXED? To what level? 60k lp for a L4? That's fine with me too. I don't mind solo'ing a defensive L4 in a far away system once a day. Not a problem at all!

This will also be good for cross-militia team building. I can help the Caldari militia farm missions in Enaluri. I cap a major to contest, then they pile in for easy lp on the next one - might as well make some easy LP spinning in a plex rather than the station. They can do the same for us in Heyd.


chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.19 17:14:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius
Edited by: X Gallentius on 19/06/2011 14:07:05
Actually I agree with chatgris. We can have somebody run a plex down to 1 minute and then wait for all of our friends to pile in for the VP/LP rewards and we can all make a ton of isk for very little overall effort.


This here is the really hard question I don't have an answer to yet, and I assume it's why CCP didn't implement LP for plex capture when they said they would.

Do you

a) Give all LP to everyone on grid? (very exploitable)
b) Split LP among everyone on grid? (imagine the anger as some militia guys warp in at the last minute to steal half the LP for the plex you spun down)
c) Split LP based on the proportional time spent inside the plex (best solution, but can CCP code something that like? Requires tracking people and time spent instead of the current plex finish count people on grid and award).

On the flip side - completely removing plexes and using missions would be great. They are spawned, LP splitting is based on a fleet basis. You just need to add something to the mission that allows the plex to be failed by the other side.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.19 21:34:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2011 22:17:18

Originally by: chatgris
stuff


Sry can't quote it all and reply due to form limits..

First off you are dreaming.. Yes it would be nice to fight over ability to make isk but we all know how that will work out. They will just go do the next mission and who gives a rat ass if you chase them out with a pimped Dram or Cyn. It will be no different as it is now with mission runners getting chased out of their missions and so on.

First off, PVE & PVP don't mix in a efficient manor, so when you chase the mission runner out of his mission in your pimped Dram or Cynabal you aren't gonna be able to complete his mission any way. If you can then it will just change to people using alts in both factions to farm each others missions.

Next as I mentioned in my other post and now this post the keywords "efficient manor". Not many PVPers want to grind ISK. Hence the reason the current FW missions are great. I never said it was impossible to fly a BC in low sec I said it was not "efficient" to do so while doing FW missions.

I don't want to waste my time grinding ISK, so when I do so, I want to get it done quickly. This means I'm gonna do it in the most efficient manor possible just like any good farmer would. If I'm obviously not in a PVP ship because I'm, farming some ISK for a plex or new ships, then I'm damn sure going to ignore the guy trying to camp my mission in a Dram. Yep I'll just do like what happens now and move on to the next.

It's called efficiency. No matter what it's still going to be more profitable to ignore a mission that is getting camped and move on to the next. Then just bring in your own noob WT alt to cut the profits of the guy whom ran you off in half. Bling! you still got half of your mission rewards. This method also works for the idea of giving LP rewards to plexing!

Also CCP isn't gonna fix FW anyway because they are gonna be too busy working on null sec yet again pushing us aside and also their new shiny "contraband". Not to mention all the tears from the broken Incarna are gonna push us back even further.

Welcome to the next 18 months as if you shouldn't of expected that anyway. Anyone whom thinks they will work on low sec or FW anytime Soon™ is dreaming. CCP already answered the FW/low sec question when they didn't even show up to the FW round table. The only low sec buff that is coming is the Dramel nerf and that will be more than I expected out of them in regard to fixing low sec. Laughing

edit.. Also I'm still trying to figure out how some tard farming FW missions, affects my game play and makes low sec/FW horrible or any different from the rest of EVE for that matter.

Mutnin
Amarr
Mutineers
Posted - 2011.06.19 22:08:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Mutnin on 19/06/2011 22:22:50

Originally by: chatgris

On the flip side - completely removing plexes and using missions would be great. They are spawned, LP splitting is based on a fleet basis. You just need to add something to the mission that allows the plex to be failed by the other side.



I'll also reply to this.. They can already be camped causing the mission to be not completed or at very least delayed. For the most part it's just a waste of time for both parties TBH as it's pretty obvious that stealth bomber isn't gonna fight anything that can camp it's mission.

Next "failing" a FW mission means faction standings loss. Sorry but CCP isn't going to change missions to the point that it could force people out of FW because they couldn't complete them. That would just be out right stupid game mechanics as well as the fact that people often have real life to deal with. (same thing happens with complexes in low sec or null so why should a FW mission be any different, if you don't want them to complete the mission then waste your time camping it)

This is a game, the closest you are going to get to forcing someone to fail a mission is just chasing them off. If CCP did it any other way, it would be one less reason for someone whom isn't l33t PVPer to log on. (ie 90% of EVE population)


The simple solution, what I've learned over my time of playing EVE. Find something you like doing and ignore the many broken mechanics or what others are doing, just don't worry so much about them, because it's likely not gonna get fixed anytime Soon™.


edit.. also I'm still trying to figure out why mission farmers somehow hurt my PVP experience.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 04:18:00 - [48]
 

Keep missions, make it easier to grief mission runners.

Keep plexes, pay out LP, perhaps by allowing multiple players to run timer more quickly (10 players orbiting button makes plex burn down 10 times as fast). ??

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.06.20 05:36:00 - [49]
 

The whole point I believe chat is trying to make is that competition for shared objections on either side forces pvp of some kind. By making plexes the source of LP and thus isk, it means more pvp because you actually have to compete with the other side to take the plex. The main benefit of it is that it will put those farmers in situations where they can actually be killed, or at the very least effectively griefed. It'll expand the realm of FW pvp beyond the narrow pipes and make it so that he with the biggest blob doesn't always win anymore.

I can't believe anyone thinks the current situation of mission running is a good thing. FWers need isk to fund our pvp, and while we can get it now, it's being farmed by people who have no interest in FW as a pvp enterprise into worthlessness. Hell, we have pirates in the Gal/Cal area who have FDU alts that mission to fund their operations against us. Maybe it's just me, but that's rather messed up and a perversion of the system.

The plex system can be tweaked so that you get more LP for doing contested plexes, more LP for killing enemies inside contested plexes. If you see someone exploiting, you can go kill their alt, or just close their plex. Plus, if it goes as I think it would, there would be plenty of people filling out systems looking to pvp others in plex fights.

Whatever your thoughts on the plex idea, I think everyone, except XG for some bizarre reason, thinks that FW as is needs a complete rehaul and some new mechanics to put PVP back at the fore.

BuzzyBeagle
Posted - 2011.06.20 11:49:00 - [50]
 

i would like to thank Gunnyt31 for organizing and running a kickass fleet yesterday, i had a great first FW experience thanks to the more experienced PVP guys in the Fleet.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:14:00 - [51]
 

Actually Jules, I'm just suggesting a more fun way (IMO, you may like orbiting buttons for 35 minutes more) to grief alts farming FW LP.

But of course that means FW players would have to be out and about trying to grief the mission runners (which depending on the amount of griefing would potentially turn into mission running gangs with a more pvp focus) instead of spinning ships waiting for intel.

Bitterness over alts farming FW LP is the real issue here, and forcing everybody to run plexes for isk doesn't necessarily stop the farming by alts. It may just change the mechanics they use to farm. It won't necessarily encourage more fights either. If you bring a fleet out to farm plexes, then it may be in your opponent's best interest to let you farm away. That means he'll have plenty of defensive plexes to close over the next few days.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.06.20 14:29:00 - [52]
 

Then why not simply make it so offensive plexes are worth more than defensive, lets say twice as much. Defensive plexes would only be worth as much in contested systems. That way the farmers have to either fight or get pushed out of the bigger rewards. And we can always change the button timers. Fact is mission running does not encourage pvp. You might can catch the odd bomber but eventually they will get wise and it'll just turn more mind numbing than it already is, if that's possible.

Von Kroll
Caldari
Kroll's Legion
Posted - 2011.06.20 15:37:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius
Bitterness over alts farming FW LP is the real issue here, and forcing everybody to run plexes for isk doesn't necessarily stop the farming by alts. It may just change the mechanics they use to farm. It won't necessarily encourage more fights either.


This... FW Missions work as advertised for those of us actively engaged in FW PvP. That their structure allows alts to farm them shouldn't be used as an argument to get rid of them for those of us that find them very useful. And, the fact is that if they are contested, they are almost impossible to complete solo, or even in a typical speed-tank/hitter duo.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 15:56:00 - [54]
 

Two things are required for pvp:

1. One player/group wants to achieve an objective and another player/group wants to stop them (that could mean both groups want to control a L5 mission hub for example, or a Tech moon, etc.., both want to win a fight), and
2. Both sides must think they can achieve their objectives - whatever they are.

Right now missions lack a realistic way for the mission griefer to think he can win. A somewhat minor modification to the FW paradigm - a poison pill - would do that.

Doing this, IMO, would be more fun than forcing me to orbit a button for 20-35 minutes to grief an isk farmer or earn isk myself. But that's just me. YMMV. I'd be all for FW plexes being the sole source of LP as long as you gave me objectives to complete other than time spent in the plex.


X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 16:25:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 20/06/2011 16:46:22
Originally by: Julius Foederatus
Fact is mission running does not encourage pvp. You might can catch the odd bomber but eventually they will get wise and it'll just turn more mind numbing than it already is, if that's possible.
Red herring. Plexing doesn't encourage pvp. As you well know, closing plexes is most efficiently done by avoiding conflict either by blobbing or moving on to another system. Plexing for isk won't encourage fighting either. The last thing anybody wants to do while making isk is waste time actually fighting (you risk dying, and then reshipping).

Edit: It does allow for griefing however - at the cost of orbiting buttons by your FW alt.

Edit 2: What plexing alts do now is run the button until somebody comes in and runs them off. Then they come back after the person (pirate or FW player) leaves. So, in order to grief them you actually need to cap the plex which means you have to stay there for 25-30 minutes. If you're farming FW plexes (PvE), then yeah, you're gonna stay I guess - if the system is currently contested and if you haven't already found another plex somewhere else that has a shorter time on it. If you're interested in pvp, you're going to move on and let him complete the plex at his leisure. Just like FW missions.

IMO, the density of mission running alts isn't as great as everybody thinks there are. I've patrolled the entire FW area before and oftentimes there are maybe 2-3 mission running alts out capping missions in all of Gallente low sec. If they were more active, then the isk/lp would be even lower than it is now.

Julius Foederatus
Posted - 2011.06.20 17:49:00 - [56]
 

So we have plexes where one side can take the point from the other, even if it takes 30 minutes, versus missions, where you would have to sit for 10 hours or however long it takes for the mission to expire. Seems like a no brainer to me, and you would actually get something for kicking the enemy out.

At least with plexing, the pvp would be based around control. The more plexes you can complete, the more LP you get. Conversely, the less plexes your enemy completes, the less LP he gets, and the harder it is for him to make isk.

TBH, all this about plexes replacing missions is just a band aid fix. What would be best imo is to tie system ownership at the end stage level to the LP reward system, and also have penalties for system loss in place that make a faction more willing to defend said system. Hell maybe a combination of the two. But regardless, the lack of purpose in system ownership is at the root of FWs perceived problems atm.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.06.20 18:54:00 - [57]
 

(Inb4walloftext strikes you perfectly for over 9000 damage)

I know everyone got really fixated on the whole replace FW missions with plexes, and how they want to grief people, etc, thing but I think thats not the only way to go about this. So lets get back on track to discussing other ideas as well. Very Happy

I was thinking more along the lines of making VP meaningful (to help with one concept that I think really has a lot of potential for good fights, which is the plexes in FW), as right now VP is just an E-Peen Strokery stat. Hence I suggested some of the faction ships as exclusive rewards earlier for VP. I feel that FW missions could coexsist along side VP for kills/plexing but this alone isn't a magical "fix" for FW. I feel occupancy should be meaningful in addition to the VP idea. There are multitudes of threads out there about this so I won't discuss how we can make occupancy meaningful right now.

NPC balancing needs looked at (for instance, all EWAR could be removed or scaled down to be less effective than it is now). Plex Spawn mechanics could be better I admit and the aggro/NPC spawn mechanics need changing as well. (For example, NPCs do not shoot members of the opposite militia with good standings, which I feel should be changed to shooting everything besides friendly factions). NPCs should begin to spawn when an amarr/minnie alt touch the timer just as though they were caldari/gallente inside a gallente/caldari plex. Currently its not that way. If CCP can code the NPCs to not shoot someone with horrendus standings but still the same faction then they can easily change the code that the NPCs just shoot everything that isnt part of its own two allied factions.

Theres a lot of potential with the plexes (I think faction ships should be moved up a teir), as of right now any noobs joining faction war (for pvp) either go into minor plex to be shat on by a faction frig or join a blob fleet to get their merlin/incursus one vollied by a larger ship or drone swarm). These guys could use some love, I think one way of doing this is making it so that faction frigs are moved up a teir to mediums and up. The old days of frig/dessie gangs blowing eachother to bits were so fun! Nowadays most players in FW have been there awhile and have more SP, fly bigger/shinier ships, etc. I feel that there should be a niche for the new guy besides just dieing horribly attempting to get a point because the only (I using the word only very loosely here) tackle for blob fleets is a faction fit lach with the current way fleets fight :P.

TL;DR : Spwan mechanics for NPCs as well as plexes need looking at, aggro mechanics need looked at. VP is a possible way to create incentives for plexing if there were rewards for VP. System Occupancy should be meaningful, but not have nearly as severe consequences like losing sov in nullsec does, and finally, ship restrictions on plex gates need tweaked to include niches for all demographics of player age/experience.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:36:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Super Chair

TL;DR ... ship restrictions on plex gates need tweaked to include niches for all demographics of player age/experience.


Support ship restrictions in plexes

Archenom
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:39:00 - [59]
 

It seems to me there are two large complaints in this thread:

1) I want more pew pew and the mechanic I see presented to me to help me get pew pew (Occupancy Mechanics/Plexing) does not reward me with anything other than maybe some pew, but more likely watching a button tick down)

And

2) FW Mission alts are overrunning FW missions and tanking the FW LP market. This is forcing me to run FW missions more to make the same ammount of isk, which is in return taking away from my pew pew time.

Something I have not seen suggested yet, to my suprise, is putting a weekly limit on FW missions. Cap it so you can run 1 mission per week per agent. Then we can still use FW missions as a source of income, but people can only do it so often. Along with this, increase the LP rewards from plexing/anti plexing and fix the mission rats. Do not cap the rewards from plexxing and it will funnel people into plexes for isk generation. An alternative is to keep the seperate reward structures (VPs and LPs) and then cap the number of purchases per week/month/whatever from the LP store but not the VP store. Either way this forces people into the plexes for any income beyond a certain point, and helps to keep the isk/lp ratio from continuing to sink into oblivion.

Deen Wispa
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2011.06.20 19:41:00 - [60]
 

this is all moot considering CCP has stated that they won't look at FW for at least another year or so.


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only