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Gunnyt31
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:35:00 - [1]
 

so with all the mission alts in fw why not make the fw mechanics more rewarding? like say the plexing victory points you get make them be tranferable to loyaltly points or something. more loyaltly point for getting final blows. something that would encourage people to do stuff besides putting mission alts into fw.


Mara Abraham
Minmatar
The Tuskers
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:59:00 - [2]
 

Good day:

See the bottom of http://www.factionalwarfare.info/812/minmatar-faction-warfare-getting-to-know-player-run-corporations/ where I got feedback from a number of Minmatar FW CEO's (or authorized parties) on the subject matter.

Specifically:

One of the survey questions involved the perceived and real problems that exist in Minmatar faction warfare, and ways those problems might be solved. What follows are some highlights of what should be looked at by CCP:

More loyalty points should be given for PVP. Right now one PVP kill might yield as much as 20 LP where as doing just one level 4 mission gives an average of 16,000 LP. Militia members should get proper LP pay for their time and effort.


Capturing and defending plexes should count for more than standing increases. Right now, outside of role playing, plexing has no real rewards. Especially when the sovereignty of the system captured never changes even if the system is captured for months on end. Any plex revamp should also take into account changes like the faction hulls buff. Capturing or loosing systems has very little impact on life in FW and it does not encourage more PVP. Capturing complexes is excruciatingly boring. Part of the plex change should include LP for capturing or defending a plex.


There should be harsher consequences to those that shoot friendly militia; the current system allows individuals and corporations to set up an environment where by they can regularly shoot friendly militia members for extended periods of time without being booted out of the militia. If neutrals shoot militia members, they should take a faction hit as if they were shooting faction NPC ships.


Reduce station camping by not allowing the enemy faction to dock up up or by dramatically extending the time it takes for them to switch in and out of switches.


Too many individuals join Minmatar militia only to mission for ISK without participating in PVP or capturing and defending systems. Joining faction warfare should mean something beyond a means to generate ISK.


Keep the storyline going – we need news PLUS it would be great to see the faction NPC’s getting involved as a follow on plot from the book, maybe play things out like the Incursion LIVE EVENTS.


CCP should provide more publicity to the faction warfare.


Thank you.

Manda Rin
Minmatar
Sexy Thoughts
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:12:00 - [3]
 

If they gave decent payouts for killing enemy ships I would not be alone in joining FW with two alts and farming away getting endless killmails. This would also ridicule the FW statistics.

Cosmic Raider
Capitalist Pig Running Dogs
Posted - 2011.06.16 23:32:00 - [4]
 

I agree with Gunny. IMO, making plexing more rewarding will encourage widespread small gang pvp across the entirety of the available FW space.
The plexing contest between factions is akin to a strategic chess match between warring factions. Well, OK, a chess match where people kill each other and hurl vile insults in local. However, there is little inducement for players to do so (other than new players trying to build standings in order to access FW agents and a small number of other certain lunatics for whom seizing occupancy is its own reward). This is because Victory Points (VP) accrued from plexing are the only non-tradable points. Loyalty points can be cashed in for stuff. Research points can be cashed in for data cores. VP should be tradable in FW stores the same as LP. Moreover, VP rewards per plex should be scaled to FW mission rewards accoring to relative difficulty.
- Currently, taking a bunker results in no personal reward at all despite the fact it is the most difficult single thing to do in FW, requiring extensive work just to get to that point and is the equivalent of taking down a small POS. This is silly. Granted, there are real team rewards for taking a system (defensive plexes in system, chest-beating rights in forums). Personal rewards could be divided based on damage done to the bunker and be a killmail just as taking down a small pos. Additionally, a seized system could also result in the installment of friendly FW agents in a local station.
- A tradable victory point system should be put in place that values offensive over defensive and could work akin to points one derives from a kill on battleclinic, e.g., more points for solo, more points for large vice small plex.

Super Chair
Caldari
Hell's Revenge
Posted - 2011.06.17 00:39:00 - [5]
 

I feel that victory points should have their own exclusive rewards in addition to access to the LP Store items. People will just farm LP just as they always have because its easier than getting LP by PvP combat. Why risk your ship in combat if you can get the same reward from shooting NPCs?


Some rewards I feel could be introduced:

Faction Battlecruisers (Currently there are none in the game)

Faction Destroyers (Same reason as above)

Faction EWAR Cruisers (performance similar to that of a recon with the same role, minus bonuses, ressits, and other bonuses of flying a T2 over a T1 Ship).



Increased LP for kills, or change LP reward for a kill to rewarding VP instead.


Also I feel that the plexing system should be tweaked to periodically spawn plexes in every system over the course of a day so all timezones can see action throughout the day.



Andre Vauban
Gallente
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 01:26:00 - [6]
 

Just delete missions all together, then change VP to LP and maybe adjust LP awards based on plex size. Problem solved. Of course you have to fix the plex spawning issues first.

Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
Posted - 2011.06.17 03:40:00 - [7]
 

If it was a perfect world, and CCP hasn't completely ignored it.

* Remove all the missions

* Put a good reward system into the FW control/sov mechanics.

Until then? Grind away like a madmen, and then fly T1 BCs. Whine nonstop if somebody threatens your missions, because you need phat ISK to replace all the :DRAEK: you fly.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 06:31:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: chatgris on 17/06/2011 07:41:29
- Remove missions. Only way to get LP is to plex, something that the other side can take away from you, unlike a mission where you can just go away and come back later. It will force mission bears to pvp assuming that enough people care about plexes (which they should if it's the only way to make fw LP).

And to make the above work

- Fix plex spawning
- Balance the rats
- Faction/pirate ships get bumped up a tier

And FW could be a pvp nirvana.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.17 06:49:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: chatgris
- Remove missions. Only way to get LP is to plex, something that the other side can take away from you, unlike a mission where you can just go away and come back later. It will force mission bears to pvp assuming that enough people care about plexes (which they should if it's the only way to make fw LP).


Now I've never been in FW, but previously I've heard from quite a few people actually in the various militias that part of the appeal was that losing held no consequence, so you didn't have much the realpolitiking, metagaming, etc. that characterized sov nullsec (which has real consequences for defeat). Would you really be comfortable with an FW where one side called in 90 extra guys, but you were still compelled to fight at a horrible disadvantage to defend your primary source of income?

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 07:41:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: chatgris on 17/06/2011 07:43:31
Originally by: Target Painter
Would you really be comfortable with an FW where one side called in 90 extra guys, but you were still compelled to fight at a horrible disadvantage to defend your primary source of income?


Absolutely. They still aren't denying me space, and if I can't make fw income, there's always high sec missions, anoms, ratting etc. It just gives people a reason to fight.

There's still no real consequence for defeat, so there's no kicking out the enemy militia from where they live etc. You just continually fight over point objectives (the plexes) for a carrot, not a stick.

Cosmic Raider
Capitalist Pig Running Dogs
Posted - 2011.06.17 09:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Target Painter
Originally by: chatgris
- Remove missions. Only way to get LP is to plex, something that the other side can take away from you, unlike a mission where you can just go away and come back later. It will force mission bears to pvp assuming that enough people care about plexes (which they should if it's the only way to make fw LP).


I don't know what I'm talking about


Fixed.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.17 09:25:00 - [12]
 

My old vision (yeah I pimp it a lot, haven't seen any better suggestion since so 'meh' Smile)

Has missions play a part in system occupancy in a meaningful way, but their main purpose stays as a source of income.

PS: Rewards for capturing systems are pointless to debate as long as the underlying system is as broken as it is, can be slapped on at any time either way

Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2011.06.17 10:00:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Kade Jeekin on 17/06/2011 10:00:32
Originally by: Andre Vauban
Just delete missions all together, then change VP to LP and maybe adjust LP awards based on plex size. Problem solved. Of course you have to fix the plex spawning issues first.


I'd support this change. Perhaps the agents could actually contribute to the spawn of the plexes, as I mentioned here:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1520969&page=1#3

Ein Phantom
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:50:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Gunnyt31
trolling is expecting



OH MY GOD IS IT A BOY

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.06.17 11:51:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Andre Vauban
Just delete missions all together, then change VP to LP and maybe adjust LP awards based on plex size. Problem solved. Of course you have to fix the plex spawning issues first.


again a bump for this idea. I really can't see anything wrong with it. As long as they fix the spawning to make them act like normal anoms this would take fw from being casual and fun to completely epic. Easy to implement, GET ON IT CCP Very Happy

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:14:00 - [16]
 

+1 for defensive plexing alts! Can't wait to get my Caldari alt up and running. Go to Sarenemi, cap an offensive plex and get some FW LP. Open next plex and have my minimum skill Caldari alt and get some FW LP. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Once my alt gets some skills up I'll buy it a dramiel and we can do this in Vifr and Athounon where there is no WT opposition.

pvp nirvana!

Why would anybody want to tie anything into the plexing mechanic that is mind numbingly boring 80% of the time?

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:21:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: chatgris on 17/06/2011 14:21:59
Originally by: X Gallentius
+1 for defensive plexing alts! Can't wait to get my Caldari alt up and running. Go to Sarenemi, cap an offensive plex and get some FW LP. Open next plex and have my minimum skill Caldari alt and get some FW LP. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Once my alt gets some skills up I'll buy it a dramiel and we can do this in Vifr and Athounon where there is no WT opposition.

pvp nirvana!


The hope is that by attaching some kind of reward, plexes won't be the wasteland they are now, and enemies will come to chase your alt out of the plex. Some kind of plex under attack notification system could help facilitate pvp.


Originally by: X Gallentius

Why would anybody want to tie anything into the plexing mechanic that is mind numbingly boring 80% of the time?



Because ship restricted fights can be a lot of fun. Problem is now, if you "win" and the enemy leaves the plex, you are simultaneously losing as you have to sit there and wait for the timer to count down while listening to people on vent who ignore plexes find pvp.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:53:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 17/06/2011 14:53:44
Originally by: chatgris
The hope is that by attaching some kind of reward, plexes won't be the wasteland they are now, and enemies will come to chase your alt out of the plex. Some kind of plex under attack notification system could help facilitate pvp.


"There's always hope." After you and your buds burn around for 10 jumps chasing an alt in a Condor you'll think otherwise. It's more isk efficient for you and your buds to let that alt contest alot of systems so that you can then cap other plexes in the same systems and at least make some isk!

Originally by: chatgris

Originally by: X Gallentius

Why would anybody want to tie anything into the plexing mechanic that is mind numbingly boring 80% of the time?



Because ship restricted fights can be a lot of fun. Problem is now, if you "win" and the enemy leaves the plex, you are simultaneously losing as you have to sit there and wait for the timer to count down while listening to people on vent who ignore plexes find pvp.

If ship restricted fights are fun, why aren't more people doing them? When was the last time somebody needed an isk reward to pvp?

Nobody will stay and fight if they think they will lose. They will leave system and go run another plex. Same as now. Your reward is to sit on a button for 20 to 40 minutes. I'm glad you're now going to get paid for it, but it's still boring as hell.

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:30:00 - [19]
 

@Gallentius

Your viewpoint is strictly from the cal/gal side of the gate. People use PLEX's to pvp all the time on the other side of the fence. The problem is YOU GUYS don't want to use them for some bittervet reason. A little while ago I ran 3 plexes (in Heyd of all places!) in a daredevil unopposed.

And yes, these could get farmed. But at least you could stop ppl from farming them like they farm missions now where we have leagues of mission alts just annoying us.

X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 15:59:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: X Gallentius on 17/06/2011 16:26:08
Originally by: Karl Planck
"I sat in a minor in an OP Daredevil and didn't get a fight".
How will eliminating FW missions and adding more LP rewards for capturing plexes change that? Players will let you capture the first plex if the system is not contested (no fight), then they will overwhelm you with 4 daredevils to make sure they can get the LP reward(you will bail even if you are interested in the isk, no fight). If they can't muster the forces, they will let you capture the plex (no fight). Anybody actually interested in a fair fight (and not isk) will come in and fight you.

Same as always.

The difference?
Some carebear somewhere near Nikkishima far away from the main fighting areas will be farming FW plexes 23/7. Have fun making 14+ jumps to grief somebody that won't engage.

Edit: To summarize my position, to me FW missions are a much more entertaining way of making isk in FW than FW plexes for the simple reason that I get to roam the entire FW arena instead of sitting on a button 23/7. There's nothing wrong with adding LP rewards for running plexes. Those gluttons for punishment deserve it, and their alts that actually run the plexes do too.

Bitterness towards carebears is not a good reason to force actual FW players to orbit buttons to make isk - especially since those same carebears will find other ways to farm the LP. A better suggestion would be to propose a way to grief mission runners if they bail from their mission.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:36:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 17/06/2011 16:39:21
Originally by: X Gallentius
...A better suggestion would be to propose a way to grief mission runners if they bail from their mission.

Yeah, they should have a way for defenders to forcibly close the mission, currently only one that allows that "Wolf run .." or something, run 3 gates and grab a charter type of thing.

That's the reason why I don't bother chasing the stupid bombers any more, they just go next door to run another mission or AFK waiting for me to leave.
Were I able to negatively influence their whoring ways by closing missions, thus giving them a standings hit, they would be forced to fight for the right to *****.

Perhaps a 60s timer button near the target spawn for a defender to orbit and essentially abandoning the mission on the *****s behalf.

Target Painter
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.17 16:42:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Cosmic Raider
Fixed.


I don't know which part you are talking about, but like I said, I'm not in FW, never been in FW, only have second-hand info to go by.

Unfamed II
Caldari
NPC Corporation
Paisti Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 17:29:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 17/06/2011 16:39:21
Perhaps a 60s timer button near the target spawn for a defender to orbit and essentially abandoning the mission on the *****s behalf.

Oh yeah! That would be super awesome!

Karl Planck
Labyrinth Obtaining Chaotic Kangaroos
Posted - 2011.06.17 19:13:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: X Gallentius
A better suggestion would be to propose a way to grief mission runners if they bail from their mission.



1. they weren't minor plexes xD
2. you do have a good idea there, no doubt. All I want is someway to prevent the riskless nearly unstoppable farming in my backyard

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.06.17 23:29:00 - [25]
 

Such a shift to plexes would need to be complimented by nerfing the faction frigs, or making minor plexes not accept faction frigs. Currently, a new player couldn't hope to compete.

In general, I would like to see plexing matter. But I also don't want the FW situation to get even more new player unfriendly.

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.17 23:50:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 17/06/2011 16:39:21
Originally by: X Gallentius
...A better suggestion would be to propose a way to grief mission runners if they bail from their mission.

Yeah, they should have a way for defenders to forcibly close the mission, currently only one that allows that "Wolf run .." or something, run 3 gates and grab a charter type of thing.


And this is why I suggest removing fw missions. Then plexes are like missions with a built in mechanism for the other side able to fail your mission.

Bluejacket CT
Percussive Diplomacy
Posted - 2011.06.18 00:45:00 - [27]
 

Remove plexes and missions in their entirety. Make occupancy based on kills!

Sugar Lee Willis
Posted - 2011.06.18 00:49:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Bluejacket CT
Remove plexes and missions in their entirety. Make occupancy based on kills!


What he said.

Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
Posted - 2011.06.18 01:55:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Sugar Lee Willis
Originally by: Bluejacket CT
Remove plexes and missions in their entirety. Make occupancy based on kills!


What he said.


Extremely exploitable. Occupancy would be effectively determined by who has more spare time and who is more willing to metagame. More than it already is, I mean.

Sugar Lee Willis
Posted - 2011.06.18 03:41:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Emperor Cheney
Originally by: Sugar Lee Willis
Originally by: Bluejacket CT
Remove plexes and missions in their entirety. Make occupancy based on kills!


What he said.


Extremely exploitable. Occupancy would be effectively determined by who has more spare time and who is more willing to metagame. More than it already is, I mean.


Glad you added that caveat.


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