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blankseplocked [Angels]Press Release: Change of Direction
 
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Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.18 05:11:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Nola Doyle
Maintaining their primary motive as contract killers for the highest bidder doesn't seem to register to the bleeding hearts, but to the observant this only reinforces the empty gesture this appears to present.


I love the way you use "the observant" as a synonym for either "me" or "right-thinking people," Ms. Doyle.

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.18 05:40:00 - [32]
 

To those wondering things about how we're 'less evil' I would like to state something for the record:

I have no presumptions about being a 'good person.' I would probably class myself as a vile, hateful, horrible, disgusting excuse for a human being, in fact, I would classify most capsuleers this way. By virtue of what we are, and what we do, we are bad people, I recognize that, and don't try to fight it. Now sure, I could try to be a better person, and I do try.

However, I believe my goals are more important then my morals. I don't seek to do evil, and I don't do it for my own sake, and if I can achieve my ends by means that don't cause me pain, then I will take them in heartbeat...but by that same token, if the only way to a better world is by doing things that most would consider horrible, I will do them, I might lose sleep over it, I might hate myself, But I will do it. Better me then my children or those I care about. I want to make radical, world shaping changes to the cluster, and I'm fully aware that I'm going to have to dance with the devil to do it. I don't like it, I don't ask anyone to approve of it, but if it needs to be done, I will do it.

The reason I have condemned slavery in particular is that I really don't see any of the other 'evils' of the cartel as being nearly as bad as slavery. Theft? Theft is as morally ambiguous a crime as there can be. Whether someone is really a 'bad person' for stealing is entirely dependent on the situation. Murder? Show me a capsuleer who has not thoughtlessly killed at least a few thousand people. Who am I to condemn murder? Drug trade? I don't see as crime at all. If someone wants to use drugs, it's their body, and they should have the right to **** it up however they want.

Why Are we still NBSI, thus putting us in the same category as 'pirates' when operating in low or nullsec? It is simply of convenience for the safety of my pilots. As we very rarely operate in these areas at all, it is not so much of an issue. When our operations spread more firmly into these areas, we will be change to an NRDS protocol.

Why are we still accepting mercenary work? Because isk makes the world go round, and unless I come into a significant amount of it, I'm going to need to be willing to do some dirty things in order to fund the work I wish to do.

Why are we remaining allies with and thus supporting the other corporations of the angel cartel, and thus indirectly supporting the cartel? Honestly, because I, (am perhaps I am deluded in believing this) believe I can convince them to see my side of things, and aid me. I would much rather have allies then enemies.

Is there anything else that needs clarifying?

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.06.18 06:54:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
I love the way you use "the observant" as a synonym for either "me" or "right-thinking people," Ms. Doyle.


It wasn't intentional, I assure you. Even a frozen chronometer is correct once a daily cycle.

Vaden Khale
Amarr
Damnation Angels
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.06.18 07:32:00 - [34]
 

A plan to change Curse from the inside, to remove all that makes Curse what it is?

I fully reject your proposal. I like my drugs and slaves and all manner of vices. Your change will never come.

From what little I've heard of you, I imagined you to have more sense.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.18 08:20:00 - [35]
 

Ms. Alterana, we have not been in contact often, but I recognize hypocrisy when I see it.

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
I have no presumptions about being a 'good person.' I would probably class myself as a vile, hateful, horrible, disgusting excuse for a human being, in fact, I would classify most capsuleers this way. By virtue of what we are, and what we do, we are bad people, I recognize that, and don't try to fight it. Now sure, I could try to be a better person, and I do try.


Perhaps to your surprise, most people in the cluster don't see themselves as such. They might see others as such, but not themselves. If you have such a poor view of yourself, then of course you are constantly depressed confused and searching for direction. Accept God and stop hating yourself? "I could try to do better..." can you even hear yourself speaking?

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
However, I believe my goals are more important then my morals. I don't seek to do evil, and I don't do it for my own sake, and if I can achieve my ends by means that don't cause me pain, then I will take them in heartbeat...


I'm confused here. Probably because you are even more confused. Do you have morals or don't you. If you can achieve your goals by trafficking in people and/or drugs, if such a thing 'needs to be done' will you or won't you do it? If your goals supercede your morals or principles, what are they really worth?

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Murder? Show me a capsuleer who has not thoughtlessly killed at least a few thousand people. Who am I to condemn murder?


I'm confused again. If you encounter a peaceful industrial ship full of people you think its perfectly ok to kill all occupants aboard, but think it immoral and unacceptable to capture them and sell them as slaves? Perhaps you should board the ship and ask the occupants if they prefer you to kill them now or keep them alive and try to to sell as slaves later?

You think murdering people is ok because you believe most capsuleers do so thoughtlessly? What kind of answer is that? Many people in the cluster keep slaves too, does that make it ok?

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Why Are we still NBSI, thus putting us in the same category as 'pirates' when operating in low or nullsec? It is simply of convenience for the safety of my pilots.


Convenience for the safety of your pilots? Perhaps the first word is right. It is convenience. For your convenience of your pilots to murder people as you please.

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Is there anything else that needs clarifying?


I don't you said much that doesn't need clarifying. You are a confused and self-hating girl, and I believe you are now jumping in directions and saying things not because you believe them, but because you want to appease certain people. "Look world, I'm getting less evil, isn't that grand of me!"

I believe you should come to confession, and find out where your real issues lie and really try to solve them.

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.18 13:48:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Ms. Alterana, we have not been in contact often, but I recognize hypocrisy when I see it.

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
I have no presumptions about being a 'good person.' I would probably class myself as a vile, hateful, horrible, disgusting excuse for a human being, in fact, I would classify most capsuleers this way. By virtue of what we are, and what we do, we are bad people, I recognize that, and don't try to fight it. Now sure, I could try to be a better person, and I do try.


Perhaps to your surprise, most people in the cluster don't see themselves as such. They might see others as such, but not themselves. If you have such a poor view of yourself, then of course you are constantly depressed confused and searching for direction. Accept God and stop hating yourself? "I could try to do better..." can you even hear yourself speaking?



I'm really not depressed, I am however, a realist. I'm fully aware of the fact that capsuleers, by virtue of being capsuleers, tend to be monsters. I struggle to avoid this, but I've no fantasy notion that what I'm doing is somehow made okay by the fact that I'm doing it, and 'finding god' is not going to change that perspective.
Originally by: Merdaneth

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
However, I believe my goals are more important then my morals. I don't seek to do evil, and I don't do it for my own sake, and if I can achieve my ends by means that don't cause me pain, then I will take them in heartbeat...


I'm confused here. Probably because you are even more confused. Do you have morals or don't you. If you can achieve your goals by trafficking in people and/or drugs, if such a thing 'needs to be done' will you or won't you do it? If your goals supercede your morals or principles, what are they really worth?


I can't see slavery as an institution ever playing a role in my goals, and its as plain as that. If I have to enslave people to gain support, if I can't get it by people just wanting to follow me, then my ideas have already failed. I won't be able to build anything. As for drug trafficking, again I fail to see the issue with that, however, that said, we are brought to:
Originally by: Merdaneth

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Murder? Show me a capsuleer who has not thoughtlessly killed at least a few thousand people. Who am I to condemn murder?


I'm confused again. If you encounter a peaceful industrial ship full of people you think its perfectly ok to kill all occupants aboard, but think it immoral and unacceptable to capture them and sell them as slaves? Perhaps you should board the ship and ask the occupants if they prefer you to kill them now or keep them alive and try to to sell as slaves later?

You think murdering people is ok because you believe most capsuleers do so thoughtlessly? What kind of answer is that? Many people in the cluster keep slaves too, does that make it ok?



Hmmm...that's...actually an interesting point. I would like to be able to say I wouldn't see a 'peaceful industrial ship' and immediately think 'payday' but...I think I would. But lets say I don't. A lot of people are going to end up dead by my hand. a good number of them are probably innocent. Its not something I can help. I'm starting a revolution. They tend not to be the most peaceful ventures.

Originally by: Merdaneth

Originally by: Nikita Alterana
Why Are we still NBSI, thus putting us in the same category as 'pirates' when operating in low or nullsec? It is simply of convenience for the safety of my pilots.


Convenience for the safety of your pilots? Perhaps the first word is right. It is convenience. For your convenience of your pilots to murder people as you please.



Since my pilots actually stray into low and nullsec, oh so very much...Rolling Eyes Honestly, convenience is right, but its not the convenience to kill, which none of my pilots really take advantage of, its because of the standings headaches that would result from it.

Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.06.18 18:51:00 - [37]
 

Naraka. will keep Risen Angels as allies for the time being, as Angels are quite free to do with slaves as they please. Should we however feel that Risen Angels goes too far and actually starts hindering the Cartel, or should we receive orders from the Domination high command that Risen Angels is no longer an entity the Cartel looks benevolently upon, we will reset Risen Angels. Severe transgression, yet I hope it shall not come to that, may call for more drastic actions. Traitors are not looked kindly upon.

Nikita, I personally think that this is a rather unfortunate move. The Cartel is fine as it is, and I really doubt they are going to give up a profitable trade because you don't like it. I also think making an announcement like this while not in the soundest state of mind is not exactly smart. But it is done and I hope you won't come to regret it.

Gosakumori Noh
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2011.06.18 20:52:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Nikita Alterana

I can't see slavery as an institution ever playing a role in my goals, and its as plain as that. If I have to enslave people to gain support, if I can't get it by people just wanting to follow me, then my ideas have already failed.


You enslave people to work, not support you.

One might imagine a ruthless drug cartel addicting fools to narcotics, then threatening to withhold said narcotics in order to force the addicts to undertake activities beneficial to the cartel yet harmful to themselves. One might further imagine said Cartel choosing an appropriately ironic name...

Your position seems rather: "have cake; eat it, too." Aren't you a bit more aligned with those charming "anarchists" than the Cartel, now?




Nick Volbeat
Minmatar
The Flaming Sideburn's
Art of War Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.19 05:02:00 - [39]
 

The cartel is granting us options of trade and work that is barred from us by the empire goverments, if you find slave trade not to your likeing then dont do it plain and simple.

Remeber we are working for the cartel and they influence us not the other way, By publicly proclaiming to turn your back on slave trade even if it wasnt your original intent you do question the cartel way of life.

well we will see how the cartel responds tho be adviced some loyalist pilots that might take action themselves before it happens.....just so you are warned

Female Miner
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.19 11:11:00 - [40]
 

Quote:
vision for a new Angel Nation, for a prosperous, renewed Curse, as a true home for all the outcast people of New Eden, a refuge for the oppressed


The inhabitants of Feythabolis were enslaved by the Cartel, very recently too. Are you going to liberate them, hmm? I suspect the Cartel would oppose that, and I find it unlikely the Feythabolians would wish to have anything to do with an "angel nation".

Quote:
Why are we still accepting mercenary work? Because isk makes the world go round, and unless I come into a significant amount of it, I'm going to need to be willing to do some dirty things in order to fund the work I wish to do.


Are you going to accept mercenary work against Gallentean, Caldari or Minmatar based corporations? Those entities are opposed to slavery. If not, then you are limiting your employability to almost nothing.

Quote:
I am also forbidding corporation members from purchasing new slaves, selling existing slaves, or otherwise trafficking in slaves, without the express permission of the corporate directorate to do so


So, if they have permission, they can continue being slavers. I see. That clears that up then.

Quote:
If I have to enslave people to gain support, if I can't get it by people just wanting to follow me, then my ideas have already failed


Hmm, with your corp still being slavers (with permission), then, well, yeah.

Aodha Khan
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.19 13:40:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Nikita Alterana


Risen Angels is beginning to move in a new direction. This is going to be the major change. I have a vision for a new Angel Nation, for a prosperous, renewed Curse, as a true home for all the outcast people of New Eden, a refuge for the oppressed, and a nation to rival any of the other empires. This vision will require a lot of work, and, more importantly, it is going to require a change of attitude, one that will likely result in a loss of power for sections of the Cartel.




You have little to no influence in Cartel circles and absolutely no influence in Curse at all. You should stay off the drugs, girl, if thats how deluded it makes you. However I do thank you for my daily comedy fix.

Nikita Alterana
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.19 17:03:00 - [42]
 

I'd like to retract any statements I might have made that indicate I desire an armed conflict, or hostility between myself and the Angel Cartel. While my desire is to change the cartel, I have no desire to make enemies of them, and definitely want these changes to be civil.

Maybe that makes me a coward, maybe that makes me a slaver, but I don't see myself making any real changes by starting a war and getting a bunch of my people killed.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.20 11:49:00 - [43]
 

Miss Alterana,

Whenever someone takes a step toward radical change, it will be met with opposition and hostility. While I doubt you need any encouragement, do not let yourself be discouraged by those hostile to your proposition.

If you are sincere in this course, and I would like to believe that you are, you may contact me if there is any way I can be of assistance. Beyond that, I will certainly wish for your success, even against the odds.

It takes courage to publicly press for positive change.

Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.06.21 15:30:00 - [44]
 

Mr. Valadeus, shouldn't you be like in favor of slavery and all, looking at who your current employers are. Bit confused why you are supporting the release of slaves.

Nikita, while I am glad you have taken back the worst of your words, I do hope you methods of change will be to work with and not against the Cartel.

Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.21 20:57:00 - [45]
 

Miss Arkenath,

The Knighthood is home to people of many varying viewpoints. We are united by a desire to bring change to the Empire through word and action, but we are not unified by a conformed belief system regarding every aspect of our lives.

I have always been outspoken against the practice of slavery and will continue to remain so.

Myrhial Arkenath
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.06.22 09:42:00 - [46]
 

Thank you for clarifying that then.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.22 21:32:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Raze Valadeus
Miss Arkenath,

The Knighthood is home to people of many varying viewpoints. We are united by a desire to bring change to the Empire through word and action, but we are not unified by a conformed belief system regarding every aspect of our lives.

I have always been outspoken against the practice of slavery and will continue to remain so.



You know....eventually someone with connections to the Theology Council is going to notice words like these.

Just giving you fair warning Brother...



Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:47:00 - [48]
 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but is it not the right of a Holder to determine whether or not he practices slavery and if so, to what extent? The Theology Council concerns itself with heretical teachings and belief systems, I have never preached or promoted anything beyond The Scriptures.

Beyond that, I would think the Theology Council is well aware of the existence of anti-slavery movements within the Empire. I think the Empire would be more concerned with those seeking to forcefully liberate slaves from within the Empire and less concerned with those that simply do not practice or support it.

Victoria Stecker
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2011.06.23 00:58:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk

You know....eventually someone with connections to the Theology Council is going to notice words like these.




And do what? The Theology Council probably watches every word we say in public - and can't do a damned thing about it.

Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:12:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Sinjin Mokk on 23/06/2011 14:13:16


Oh it's not so much your denial of the millenia-old system of slavery that's the issue. It's things like, "but we are not unified by a conformed belief system" that might get you a trip to the stake.

You do realize that "Freedom of Speach" is a Gallente practice right?

And Victoria, I wouldn't be too sure of that. Don't confuse a slow pace with inactivity or inability.


Sorry for the derailment Ms. Alterana. I see a similarity here though. If you don't want slavery as a part of your business, then don't do it. Go against the rule of your masters though and you risk much more. Glad to see you've gotten it all sorted though.

Fly safe...all of you.


Raze Valadeus
Amarr
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.23 14:38:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Sinjin Mokk
Edited by: Sinjin Mokk on 23/06/2011 14:13:16


Oh it's not so much your denial of the millenia-old system of slavery that's the issue. It's things like, "but we are not unified by a conformed belief system" that might get you a trip to the stake.

You do realize that "Freedom of Speach" is a Gallente practice right?

And Victoria, I wouldn't be too sure of that. Don't confuse a slow pace with inactivity or inability.


Sorry for the derailment Ms. Alterana. I see a similarity here though. If you don't want slavery as a part of your business, then don't do it. Go against the rule of your masters though and you risk much more. Glad to see you've gotten it all sorted though.

Fly safe...all of you.




Lord Mokk,

I sincerely appreciate your warning, but I feel you may misunderstand me.

The words were spoken entirely in the context of the Knighthood, nothing more. For clarification, I state that the Knighthood of the Merciful Crown is home to people of varying political and social beliefs, we are not governed as a corporation by a strict set of principles on our every affair.

My comment was not related, in any way, to the faith of those within the corporation, or the Amarr people, the Empire or Kingdom. So again, I highly doubt the Theology Council would take issue with what was stated.

Again, I appreciate your warning.

Thank you.

Lyn Farel
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2011.06.24 11:39:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Lyn Farel on 24/06/2011 11:40:55
The Empire is not a huge witch hunt festival, lord Mokk. It has always been a place for theological and spiritual discussions, debates, and new ideas, in all conformity with The Scriptures.

Is it different in the Kingdom ?

Best regards,
Farel.


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