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Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.21 01:50:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 21/06/2011 01:50:30
Originally by: Evet Morrel
Edited by: Evet Morrel on 21/06/2011 00:35:32
Originally by: Medarr
" There is no hunting like the hunting of man, and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never care for anything else thereafter. "


I see, so those that like it and have done a lot of it, they never again care for anything else, .

Thanks Medarr, we can reasonably infer from this that those that liked it but didn't do much of it; and those that didn't like it but did a great deal of it; and also for those that neither liked it nor did much of it, all the members of these other groups were able to care for other things?

If so it's clear then that some are predisposed to it. If you feel that you are liking the killing of other people a little too much, whatever the reason that initially attracted you to it, you are likely a member of this vulnerable group. So beware because soon you won't care for anything else. Be sure to tell your loved ones, however humiliating that might be and ask for their help before its too late.


Would that imply that once one who belongs to this group has crossed that threshold that there is no coming back? Would this be something akin to a madness for which there is no cure? Perhaps the gene theory is an unfortunate reality for some, only taking one small push, a slight nudge in that direction to awaken some primal encoding deep in the more primitive parts of the mind?

Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.06.21 22:46:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm on 21/06/2011 23:06:41
Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm on 21/06/2011 23:04:41
Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm on 21/06/2011 22:53:41
Aria:

I guess I should look into getting a personal--well, "executive assistant," I guess--or three of my own, eh*? It's just never occurred to me to do so, until you mentioned it, even though the resources needed to have one--or three, or a few more than three--are not even a scratch on the surface of my personal economy, and I am hardly New Eden's richest podder....

I've always been average Joe Go-to-Work, and hover-truck pilots don't get enough money for those. When I first started crewing on one of my uncles' (non-pod) Mammoths after a skyway-accident took out my immediate family, well, my uncle always said about the paperwork--and everything else--"Bah! Do it your own damned self, that way you always know who to blame, and what to fix!" That's stayed with me, and I think this is a good thing.

*(It wouldn't stop them looking at me, though. Why don't they ever say, or do, anything? Anything at all--so I could at least know what they want. I don't leave the pod too often anymore, because then I'd have to sleep eventually, and then there they'd all be, waiting for me.

(Tarryn glares murderously here) F**k off back to wherever you're spending your afterlives, all of you!
Just.
F**k.
Off.
I tried, and I still try, but there's nothing more for you, in this world, what will it take for you to get that?!!)

I almost envy some of these psychopaths, and those "Pod-Demented" types...It must be so much...easier for them.

Originally by: Arista Shahni
Edited by: Arista Shahni on 20/06/2011 01:02:15 [...] Based on the numbers of course.

Again, our viewpoints will eternally be skewed simply because we are capsuleers. If you are a soldier during wartime, war will dominate your days. The vast majority of humanity, in all of its forms, are not soldiers.

((edited for transmission errors))


Neither does a capsuleer have to be, if they don't want to. That's kind of the point...It's like we let all our choices filter through the same bulls**t childish lizard-brain that we always have, and we're supposed to be past that, aren't we? No, indeed, many of our viewpoints aren't skewed. At all. That's, like, kinda the problem.

Make no mistake, killing is something I would never shy from, but it will NEVER be for ANYONE'S reasons, agenda, or profit save my own, carefully, logically, objectively considered, and then coldly calculated ones*.

But by the same token, I would never delude myself into thinking that I'd prefer it to eventuate that way, though...Man, I just wanna hop in my MWD/nano'ed Dramiel, hear those beautifully simple, hilariously over-powered fusion-engines f**kin' scream, feel the kick in the arse, turn up some proper tunes to fit the situation, and never have it stop, ya know?

I mean, we have the gift of such incredible, all-encompassing, incalculably beautiful freedom...Why the bloody f**k do so many of us thoughtlessly waste it by reverting to the mental/emotional lizard-state most pathetic f**king humans all too eagerly wallow in? We're supposed to be more than this, aren't we?

(Tarryn grins a cynical, blade-edged mockery of a grin into the camera-pickup) At least that's what...(snickers)they...all tell us all the time, innit.

*(Quite a few of us Sebbi's are like that though, from what I've seen ((OoC link--I think this type describes this bloodline in general quite well))...And I like me/us that way just fine!)

Arista Shahni
Amarr
Murasaki Mining and Manufacturing
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:16:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Arista Shahni on 22/06/2011 00:17:43
Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm

Neither does a capsuleer have to be, if they don't want to. That's kind of the point...It's like we let all our choices filter through the same bulls**t childish lizard-brain that we always have, and we're supposed to be past that, aren't we? No, indeed, many of our viewpoints aren't skewed. At all. That's, like, kinda the problem.



--- Audio only - visual currently unavailable for this transmission. ---

Right, once we get to a certain stage out here, it becomes pretty obvious that we don't have to be killers.

It will be me playing the role of Captain Obvious to point out that capsuleers come from different worlds, but I have to do it anyway.

The Imperial Academy didn't train me to think that I had a universe of options open to me on graduation. I was trained to be loyal to God and Empire. I executed missions for the Amarr Navy and the Theology Council, so decorated in the Empire that I'd be shot on sight in Gallente or Minmitar space.

But, yes, the universe is big, and you don't have to be a killer.

Well. For some of us, I should say, you do not have to keep being a killer.

But what we were will always reflect in what we are.

Tarryn Nightstorm
Minmatar
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
Posted - 2011.06.22 00:21:00 - [64]
 

Rather pathetically obvious, innit. So why do we not see this? Humans are like that, though Cool

Oh, and...

Originally by: Arista Shahni
The Imperial Academy didn't train me to think that I had a universe of options open to me on graduation. I was trained to be loyal to God and Empire.
But what we were will always reflect in what we are.



^^Proof of what I was saying earlier, and so concisely provided! Ta, lovely ugh!


Arista Shahni
Amarr
Murasaki Mining and Manufacturing
Posted - 2011.06.22 01:16:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Arista Shahni on 22/06/2011 01:16:10
Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Rather pathetically obvious, innit. So why do we not see this? Humans are like that, though Cool

Oh, and...

Originally by: Arista Shahni
The Imperial Academy didn't train me to think that I had a universe of options open to me on graduation. I was trained to be loyal to God and Empire.
But what we were will always reflect in what we are.



^^Proof of what I was saying earlier, and so concisely provided! Ta, lovely ugh!




I won't argue the point, either. Your eyes are opened out here, and sometimes it reveals a nightmare in which you played a part that can not be erased. But that would be my own burden to bear, I suppose, and the same for anyone else who has similarly opened their eyes.

These days I work in mining and manufacturing; plenty of quiet time to reflect on my own sin.

Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.06.22 18:14:00 - [66]
 

* looks at Evet Morrel and Eleena Wolf a momment *

I thought the deeper meaning of what i said was obvious... But i guess it was lost on you both.

If man is the greatest predator then there truely is no greater prey, no greater hunt then the hunting of men. And wheter you like to admit it or not, we are hunters, Open your mouth and look at your teeth, Mother natures intentions are quite obvious. As for the bloodlust some of us revel in their darker natures, embrace what we are to the fullest instead of hidding behind feigned morals, afraid to look at themself in the mirror and see what they really are. Capsuleers are monsters. Its as simple as that. From the momment your born into that capsule your set upon a path of destruction. Be that the destruction of civilians or other capsuleers it makes little difference in the end.

Evet Morrel
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.23 01:42:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Evet Morrel on 23/06/2011 05:55:06

Originally by: Medarr
* looks at Evet Morrel and Eleena Wolf a momment *

I thought the deeper meaning of what i said was obvious... But i guess it was lost on you both.

If man is the greatest predator then there truely is no greater prey, no greater hunt then the hunting of men. And wheter you like to admit it or not, we are hunters, Open your mouth and look at your teeth, Mother natures intentions are quite obvious. As for the bloodlust some of us revel in their darker natures, embrace what we are to the fullest instead of hidding behind feigned morals, afraid to look at themself in the mirror and see what they really are. Capsuleers are monsters. Its as simple as that. From the momment your born into that capsule your set upon a path of destruction. Be that the destruction of civilians or other capsuleers it makes little difference in the end.


Well thanks again, or I might have missed the subtle but sinister glamor of a statement that I disregarded as, lets speculate, the product of overweening machismo, or the adrenaline addicted alcoholic fantasy of poser who finally committed suicide, rather than thinking about the logical implications of what was said, in air quotes. However, Eleena Wolf (who's name I adore btw) beyond her socratic guise, I believe, is a leaner wolf than I - and likely thinks as you do albeit with a little less grease paint and dramatic lighting. Teasing aside - I don't regard any of us as either good or bad - although the effects of our actions are no doubt killing off genius, great artists, innovators and mathematicians, or what have you. My real problem is that I find all this status quo, rugged grandeur stuff, really boring. It's just not that sexy, is it - where as being a transhuman freedom fighter committed to burning the system down, well what can I say, hot.

Valentine Lucas
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:45:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Valentine Lucas on 23/06/2011 06:53:47
Your record sir. 10 Kills, 5 in Akiainavas A Caldary noob system. And you write about killing. You are trash, Go back to Amarr, dock up, Log and bio yourself.

Medarr
Amarr
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2011.06.23 06:55:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Evet Morrel
Edited by: Evet Morrel on 23/06/2011 05:55:06

Originally by: Medarr
* looks at Evet Morrel and Eleena Wolf a momment *

I thought the deeper meaning of what i said was obvious... But i guess it was lost on you both.

If man is the greatest predator then there truely is no greater prey, no greater hunt then the hunting of men. And wheter you like to admit it or not, we are hunters, Open your mouth and look at your teeth, Mother natures intentions are quite obvious. As for the bloodlust some of us revel in their darker natures, embrace what we are to the fullest instead of hidding behind feigned morals, afraid to look at themself in the mirror and see what they really are. Capsuleers are monsters. Its as simple as that. From the momment your born into that capsule your set upon a path of destruction. Be that the destruction of civilians or other capsuleers it makes little difference in the end.


Well thanks again, or I might have missed the subtle but sinister glamor of a statement that I disregarded as, lets speculate, the product of overweening machismo, or the adrenaline addicted alcoholic fantasy of poser who finally committed suicide, rather than thinking about the logical implications of what was said, in air quotes. However, Eleena Wolf (who's name I adore btw) beyond her socratic guise, I believe, is a leaner wolf than I - and likely thinks as you do albeit with a little less grease paint and dramatic lighting. Teasing aside - I don't regard any of us as either good or bad - although the effects of our actions are no doubt killing off genius, great artists, innovators and mathematicians, or what have you. My real problem is that I find all this status quo, rugged grandeur stuff, really boring. It's just not that sexy, is it - where as being a transhuman freedom fighter committed to burning the system down, well what can I say, hot.


Do you allways talk this much when trying to get a point across...

The status quo, rugged grandeur, and the other terms you so elegantly use sound hypocritical at best especially when comming from a self proclaimed " freedom fighter committed to burning the system down ". Your feigned morals are in this case merely a convient justification for your own actions. And only prove the point i was making * smiles a momment * I guess i should be thankfull you illustrated my point quite nicely.

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.23 16:44:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 24/06/2011 03:03:45
Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 24/06/2011 03:02:30
Originally by: Medarr
* looks at Evet Morrel and Eleena Wolf a momment *

I thought the deeper meaning of what i said was obvious... But i guess it was lost on you both.

If man is the greatest predator then there truely is no greater prey, no greater hunt then the hunting of men. And wheter you like to admit it or not, we are hunters, Open your mouth and look at your teeth, Mother natures intentions are quite obvious. As for the bloodlust some of us revel in their darker natures, embrace what we are to the fullest instead of hidding behind feigned morals, afraid to look at themself in the mirror and see what they really are. Capsuleers are monsters. Its as simple as that. From the momment your born into that capsule your set upon a path of destruction. Be that the destruction of civilians or other capsuleers it makes little difference in the end.


I do agree that predatory nature is and will always be part of who we are, until such a time that our technology allows us to once again alter our behavior. This behavior has pushed technology forward. Humans fought first with fists, now we fight with railguns, doomsday weaponry, and well as everything in between. This trend will continue.

Violent behavior is now more than some reaction to external stimuli. It is evolution. We continue to evolve our weapons, the tactics for using them, the strategies to employ those tactics. But in this behavior we also gain a better understanding of how to control and alter our evolution. This Process is still ongoing, perhaps the only question that matters is what are we evolving into?

O

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.23 21:09:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 23/06/2011 21:13:39
Originally by: Tarryn Nightstorm
I almost envy some of these psychopaths, and those "Pod-Demented" types...It must be so much...easier for them.


Well, I'm no longer drinking my various clones' livers into early retirement. Letting go also saves on therapists' bills and time spent talking to ghosts.

Quote:
Make no mistake, killing is something I would never shy from, but it will NEVER be for ANYONE'S reasons, agenda, or profit save my own, carefully, logically, objectively considered, and then coldly calculated ones.


And yet, that does not seem sufficient to save you from your ghosts.

My regrets in this area manifest as errors recognized or as vague, vaporous shadows. Whatever ghosts I might have otherwise faced are swallowed by the void that lies in the part of me that might once have cared-- now long faded.

It is a little sad, in the sense that I know that the "Aria Jenneth" I was created from would never have wanted to exist as such a creature. But it is peaceful.

The only ghost who haunts my head is me.

Quote:
We're supposed to be more than this, aren't we?


Who decides what we are supposed to be?

More to the point, what can we be that does not already lie within our nature?

Originally by: Medarr
If man is the greatest predator then there truely is no greater prey, no greater hunt then the hunting of men.


I disagree. If we are not ourselves human, then we, individually, are at present the greatest predator.

And hunting humans is, after a time, tedious.

Unless you want to take up Star Fraction's very optimistic hobby of hunting nation states, the only prey worthy of a capsuleer is another capsuleer.

Quote:
Capsuleers are monsters.


That is certainly within our potential. The question is whether we can serve as anything else.

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.06.24 03:48:00 - [72]
 

Biological life is predatory in nature and, as Sleeper drones and Rogue AI have proven, so can the artificial. The struggle to remain alive, thrive, and reproduce is often a violent process involving the breakdown of something to achieve that goal. No one questions why a bear kills or wonders if the hawk is a sociopath for hunting fish in the stream, yet humanity is beside itself when faced with the cold reality that success cannot be gained without the expense of others. One of science's baser laws is built upon this simple principle, that something cannot be created from nothing.

When left unrestrained, these primal urges resurface and are faced yet again with our own predatory instincts. But are we as a species destined to such an endless repetitive cycle of self-destruction and renewal? The endless process of mindless reproduction coupled with predatory slaughter of millions for the benefit of the few is a chaotic and unreliable process that will one day, statistically end with our extinction. I, and many others, feel this process can be controlled for the benefit of our species. Comprehending this process of destruction is only the first step to achieving that, but requires a conscious desire on your part to end it once and for all.

If you lack the resources or the willpower to do so yourself, NeuroGEN has the tools necessary to ensure you maintain control at all times.

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.24 05:42:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Nola Doyle
Biological life is predatory in nature and, as Sleeper drones and Rogue AI have proven, so can the artificial. The struggle to remain alive, thrive, and reproduce is often a violent process involving the breakdown of something to achieve that goal. No one questions why a bear kills or wonders if the hawk is a sociopath for hunting fish in the stream, yet humanity is beside itself when faced with the cold reality that success cannot be gained without the expense of others. One of science's baser laws is built upon this simple principle, that something cannot be created from nothing.

When left unrestrained, these primal urges resurface and are faced yet again with our own predatory instincts. But are we as a species destined to such an endless repetitive cycle of self-destruction and renewal? The endless process of mindless reproduction coupled with predatory slaughter of millions for the benefit of the few is a chaotic and unreliable process that will one day, statistically end with our extinction. I, and many others, feel this process can be controlled for the benefit of our species. Comprehending this process of destruction is only the first step to achieving that, but requires a conscious desire on your part to end it once and for all.

If you lack the resources or the willpower to do so yourself, NeuroGEN has the tools necessary to ensure you maintain control at all times.


And what happens to us should we be able end this cycle? We will be able to transcend what we are, what we have made ourselves to be? Or will we become obsolete, a minor footnote in the history existence? You say that one day our current path will lead to our demise as a species. I do not believe this to be true.

Successful apex predators eventually come to exist in a harmony of the world they occupy. This behavior is evident in some of the most violent examples of our kind, namely the capsuleer nations that inhabit space beyond the reach of the major empires. Constant wars ensure the demise of some of the older superorganisms, which in turn ensures new ones will arise to take its place. But even in the death of the older superorganism, it's successful traits are still passed on the next iteration.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2011.06.24 06:43:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Nola Doyle
If you lack the resources or the willpower to do so yourself, NeuroGEN has the tools necessary to ensure you maintain control at all times.


"Just sit still," said the fox to the rabbit, "and I will make all your troubles go away."

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.06.24 08:34:00 - [75]
 

Eleena Wolf, I suggested that the statistical probability of our extinction from the chaotic model that humanity has been progressing from thus far is much greater than if we took a more aggressive approach in controlling the future and direction of our species. A wolf achieves harmony by pushing the boundaries of nature until it simply cannot support the population any longer. As sentient creatures, aware of this reality, we stand a much greater chance in controlling the outcome and ensuring the probability of our extinction is far lower than trusting random chance. Simply accepting our nature without the ambition to evolve from it is, in my opinion, lazy and irresponsible.

Aria, your intellect is wasted in entropy. You have the potential to shape the future of our species rather than sit idly by as an audience member. Be part of the solution, not a representative of the problem.

Evet Morrel
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2011.06.24 10:27:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Evet Morrel on 24/06/2011 14:44:03
Edited by: Evet Morrel on 24/06/2011 10:49:51

Originally by: Medarr

The status quo, rugged grandeur, and the other terms you so elegantly use sound hypocritical at best especially when comming from a self proclaimed " freedom fighter committed to burning the system down ". Your feigned morals are in this case merely a convient justification for your own actions. And only prove the point i was making * smiles a momment * I guess i should be thankfull you illustrated my point quite nicely.


I'm usually much more talkative, I only used 15 more words than you did. Forgive me for pointing it out, but you are darkly theatrical, honestly dear man you couldn't be more so if you had a cape. In any case you're sweet if you regard terms such as status quo as elegant. If I know something of Amarrian women, your brooding charm are making several anaemic beauties silly with repressed desire, if you still care for such things, you know they're suckers for laconic opaque men. Anyway, if you're going to expose me as a hypocrite you going to have to be more specific.

Originally by: Nola Doyle
Eleena Wolf, I suggested that the statistical probability of our extinction from the chaotic model that humanity has been progressing from thus far is much greater than if we took a more aggressive approach in controlling the future and direction of our species. A wolf achieves harmony by pushing the boundaries of nature until it simply cannot support the population any longer. As sentient creatures, aware of this reality, we stand a much greater chance in controlling the outcome and ensuring the probability of our extinction is far lower than trusting random chance. Simply accepting our nature without the ambition to evolve from it is, in my opinion, lazy and irresponsible.

Aria, your intellect is wasted in entropy. You have the potential to shape the future of our species rather than sit idly by as an audience member. Be part of the solution, not a representative of the problem.


Nola, your duplicity is astonishing, and your change in tack is just as obvious. You devious Minx Smile do you want us you to believe that all this chaos is the result of our propensity to violence. Wasn't the submersion of the individuality of the true slaves the result of a failure of that disposition, if history is to believed? Anyway I thought you said it was CONCORD's incentives, which is it? A consequence of our genetics, or are we rationally following the carrot proffered by the Jovian amputees. Both I suspect you'll reply. This excessively reductive approach may explain altruistic cooperation in social insects, but it doesn't explain us; regardless of your low opinion of humanity we aren't insects. While it may appeal to the deeply cynical, the psychopath, the adrenalin junky, or the chicken-hawk, it's hollow. It's funny there was so much I admired about you guys, your technology of liberation was so promising, shame your contempt for humanity drove you towards totalitarianism.

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Originally by: Nola Doyle
If you lack the resources or the willpower to do so yourself, NeuroGEN has the tools necessary to ensure you maintain control at all times.


"Just sit still," said the fox to the rabbit, "and I will make all your troubles go away."


lol, great Very Happy

Nola Doyle
NeuroGEN
Posted - 2011.06.24 16:38:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Evet Morrel

Nola, your duplicity is astonishing, and your change in tack is just as obvious. You devious Minx Smile do you want us you to believe that all this chaos is the result of our propensity to violence. Wasn't the submersion of the individuality of the true slaves the result of a failure of that disposition, if history is to believed? Anyway I thought you said it was CONCORD's incentives, which is it? A consequence of our genetics, or are we rationally following the carrot proffered by the Jovian amputees. Both I suspect you'll reply. This excessively reductive approach may explain altruistic cooperation in social insects, but it doesn't explain us; regardless of your low opinion of humanity we aren't insects. While it may appeal to the deeply cynical, the psychopath, the adrenalin junky, or the chicken-hawk, it's hollow. It's funny there was so much I admired about you guys, your technology of liberation was so promising, shame your contempt for humanity drove you towards totalitarianism.


*smiles* Evet Morrel, I am not Sansha Kuvakei, nor am I Nation. We share common goals and interests, nothing more.

That said, my duplicity is well founded in that while humanity is predatory in nature, CONCORD exacerbates this blood-lust with positive reinforcement by rewarding violence with currency and favors. They are breeding a community of contract murderers to route their enemies, all while under the guise of civilized society's great defender of peace. The Jovian 'carrot', as you have cleverly described, is simply a tool that has made our extinction a realistic outcome in this lifetime.

But you've misrepresented my viewpoint on humanity in general. I am invested in our future, and I am concerned about the direction our species has been led thus far. We are animals yet we differ from wolves in that we have the mental capacity to recognize the flaw in simply allowing fate to deal us a hand rather than working to create one of our own with conscious effort.

Why is this such a dangerous idea? Why are people compelled to resist such a practical response?

Eleena Wolf
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2011.06.24 23:32:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 25/06/2011 03:04:58
Edited by: Eleena Wolf on 25/06/2011 02:42:45

Originally by: Nola Doyle
Eleena Wolf, I suggested that the statistical probability of our extinction from the chaotic model that humanity has been progressing from thus far is much greater than if we took a more aggressive approach in controlling the future and direction of our species. A wolf achieves harmony by pushing the boundaries of nature until it simply cannot support the population any longer. As sentient creatures, aware of this reality, we stand a much greater chance in controlling the outcome and ensuring the probability of our extinction is far lower than trusting random chance. Simply accepting our nature without the ambition to evolve from it is, in my opinion, lazy and irresponsible.

Aria, your intellect is wasted in entropy. You have the potential to shape the future of our species rather than sit idly by as an audience member. Be part of the solution, not a representative of the problem.


Perhaps it is higher. While I agree that with successive generations we learn more methods to control our evolution, we should not seek full control over it. Chaos is required to spawn successful adaptations. Complete control over the evolutionary process of a species, is folly. The Jovians, the Sleepers, the Talocan, and the countless other advanced civilizations who are now forgtten are evidence of this.

Apex predators achieve harmony differnt ways. Some by encountering another apex predator. others by roaming vast areas. Through this, achieving harmony.







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