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Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:44:00 - [31]
 

ok i see so its like T2 or Deadspace limited extra benifits for massive extra cost (ignoring skill differences of course)?

Col Callahan
Caldari
Boogie Monsters
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:46:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 18:43:18
Originally by: Ladrial
They saw you are somebody who doesn't know what he wants (and much less about PCs or how some hardware will perform) so shoved their "can't sell this easy" gear down your throat, and you didn't even blink, so they kept pushing for even more ludicrous gear with even worse price/performance ratios.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:48:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
ok i see so its like T2 or Deadspace limited extra benifits for massive extra cost (ignoring skill differences of course)?

Radically different values, but yeah, same basic idea.
They're trying to sell you ovepriced bling, basically.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:49:00 - [34]
 

so what would you go for if you were going to do it with intel and nvidia cards?

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.06.16 19:06:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
so what would you go for if you were going to do it with intel and nvidia cards?


Ignoring cost and wishing to get as many years out of my rig as possible without ever opening the PC and using 4 monitors:

i2600K (over-clocked beyond the realms of physics through after-market cooling solution and super-voltage)
2 x 590 GTX

However, taking cost and ROI into account:

i2600K (to allow for some kind of overclocking via bios, if needed, at some point, in the future)
2 x 570 (even this doesn't run Metro 2033 @ 60FPS, which is a DX11 title)

I do have a question though; why 4 monitors? Why not 3?

If you have 4 (I assume a lateral configuration) then your central point of focus will have a black line where the two central monitors will meet.

If you have a 2x2 setup, you have 4 monitor corners in your central point of focus.

If you are planning to have a 3x1 setup, then that has some sense to it, although I wouldn't mind being your oestopath, as I'm sure I'd be able to take early retirement with you as a patient.

It's personal preference, but have a triple monitor setup laterally, it gives you a central monitor and allows you to extend out your peripheral vision, no?

Guess it depends on what games you play, or plan to play.

If you are going for 3 monitors - the BenQ 3d monitor is pretty nice and has CRT levels of response to it for 24" x 3 pimpage.

AK

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 19:10:00 - [36]
 

Hello and thanks for your reply I want to play four accounts each on there own monitor, I may actually put two on the desk and two on the wall above them.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.16 19:20:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
so what would you go for if you were going to do it with intel and nvidia cards?

Well, let's just slightly modify the previous one then.

Originally by: Akita T
180$ AMD Phenom II 1090T Black (6 core @ 3.2GHz)
155$ ASUS M4A89TD PRO/USB3 AM3 AMD 890FX (dual x16 mode CrossfireX)
2x 200$ GIGABYTE GV-R687OC-1GD Radeon HD 6870 1GB

145$ G.SKILL ECO 8GB (4 x 2GB) DDR3 1600, CL7, 1.35V
150$ Western Digital Caviar Black WD2002FAEX 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache
90$ Thermaltake TR2 RX 750W Bronze W0382RU
+180$ reserved case, fans, mouse, KB or whatnot

Take the top 3 items down, rest of list remains as is, let's see what else can we put in.
210$ Intel Core i5-2500 Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz
260$ ASUS P8P67 WS REVOLUTION LGA 1155 Intel P67 / NVIDIA NF200
2x 190$ GIGABYTE GV-N56GOC-1GI GeForce GTX 560 (Fermi) 1GB

The most "pain in the arse" part was the motherboard, there are very few that support dual x16 mode, don't know if you can find a cheaper one that can handle that.
So, basically, on the Mobo+CPU+GPU combo, you spend around 115$ extra just for those. A noticeable but not back-breaking increase.
The video cards should perform about on par, maybe a bit slower, but not really noticeable in EVE.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:04:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
Hello and thanks for your reply I want to play four accounts each on their own monitor, I may actually put two on the desk and two on the wall above them.


What type of playstyle? PvP? Mining? Missions?

I understand that some players like Chribba (if you say his name he appears on the forums) run in windowed mode.

Be interesting to get some more feedback from players with 3 or more monitors to see what type of setup they run and what the frames per second is like, types of resolution they have, graphical options running as this will no doubt help you.

Mashie Saldana is another player that springs to mind with an úber setup on multiple monitors.

Ask nicely and they might even post some screenshots.

AK

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:11:00 - [39]
 

Wait what how when?

I'll post my epeen computer when it has arrived in parts. But I must say I love RevoDrives...

Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:15:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Sorted on 16/06/2011 20:18:41
I run up to 8 accounts in window mode over 3 monitors (24" DVI flanked by 2*22" DVIs, - i know, same Res but it looks cool) on two Nvidia cards.
Low settings on 3 GIG RAM 1066, Quad core Phenom, GT285x2 and 560Ti, OCZ SSD.

Output over two cards bottlenecks on a single frame buffer, my FPS drops every client over 2 unless I run in Interval Immediate, in which case I can get 70-120fps.
On 1 card with two outputs on two monitors it was easier on the FPS with multiple clients, but smaller screen real-estate.


Sorted
DEATH'S LEGION
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:17:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Chribba
But I must say I love RevoDrives...

checkout the SSD vertex 3 from OZC, trim support, and close to the Revo read/write speeds with much less headache.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:38:00 - [42]
 

Ok, first suggestion, stay as far away from OcUK as possible, their support is nonexistant if you ever receive a faulty component or something breaks. It took them 14 weeks to replace a broken graphics card I got from them once. Or a classic "no fault found" with a stick of ram that would short circuit any motherbord it was plugged in to...

But anyway, I upgraded my system last week:

i7-2600k
4 x 4GB Corsair Vengance PC1866
Gigabyte GA-Z68-UD7-B3
2 x Palit GTX 580 3GB
Thermalright Archon
Lian-Li PC8-FIB
128GB Corsair Series 3 SSD (that was recalled by the manufacturer the day it was delivered) Evil or Very Mad
Thermaltake Toughpower 1200W PSU (from an old tri-sli build so a bit overpowered for this but it will let me drive a third GTX 580 if I ever need)

This is driving 2 x Dell 3007 screens with a 5120x1600 desktop.

It doesn't matter what graphics cards you get, if you go with a low amount of effective VRAM you can forget about ever running EVE with Anti-Alias enabled with that setup.

Celeritas 5k
Connoisseurs of Candid Coitus
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:45:00 - [43]
 

There's a fair amount of bad and conflicting advice in this thread (as well as some good!), so I feel a need to post.

First off, you'd be better off going to a dedicated computer forum with this question, such as overclock.net. Nothing against the EVE forums, but computers are all OCN talks about. You'll get better advice there.

My input as to the actual build:
ArrowBuild your own, don't buy pre-built. For a gaming computer, you'll get better value and you'll get precisely what you need, nothing more

ArrowYou don't need a 2600k; it's $200 more than the 2500k and all you get is hyperthreading, which only makes a significant difference in highly multithreaded (read: not gaming) situations. Even 4 EVE clients won't tax a 2500k, which is probably the best price/performance ratio CPU on the market right now and the one I'd recommend. Don't wait for such and such chips to come out, there's always some chip coming soon and you never know the exact date.

ArrowAMD is behind in the game right now; They're great for a budget build but if performance is important choose intel. This is coming from a former AMD guy. Bulldozer may change that, but see my previous comment about waiting...

ArrowFor the GPU, obviously you'll need 2 cards to run 4 monitors. I run 2 eve clients on 2 monitors at medium settings on a single 512mb 8800GT at 1440x900; EVE is not a graphically intensive game. I'd recommend a 460 or higher, depending on your budget. Graphics cards are a pretty direct tradeoff between money in and performance out, but if all you play is EVE then you don't need to break the bank. Yeah, 580s are nice but they're also $500 a pop...

ArrowYou don't need 16 gigs of ram. You just DON'T. Even 8 gigs is overkill for most gaming; not enough ram will hurt you but beyond a certain point you're just wasting money.

ArrowGet an aftermarket cooler for your 2500k, even if you don't overclock it. (You should still overclock it by the way.)

ArrowIf you build this computer, look into [email protected] Leave it running when you're not playing EVE, and you'll be helping cure cancer. ugh

I've gotta run, but feel free to hit me up in game if you have questions.

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:54:00 - [44]
 

Celeritas Thankyou a very considered and well laid out post that all makes good sense thanks.

Mspaine
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:25:00 - [45]
 

It's allmost Tax Rebate time here in Aus - And i was thinking of getting a new pc.

My current one works ok - But i have a problem where it's old style socket (Before I7 - foregt teh type) And i had my motherboard blow - so i lose my Windows liscence. I replace the motherboard (i could only get 1 type and it was not identical to my last... and it seems i bought my pc at a bad time as they did the switch to the I7 and stopped stocking my type of mobo) - I had to jump on local PC Magazine forums and do a trade with someone - 4gigs of pretty Kingston ram in exchange for 4gigs of stock ram you'd get in a pre-build Acer or the such - Not complaining - it allowed me to get my pc running...

But the problem is it's all over the place and i'm better off giving the PC as a hand-me-down to my younger Sister and getting a new PC for myself.


Since there seem to be alot of Techies in this thread.... (I can build PC's with ease - im just nowhere up to speed on what hardware works best with this or which hardware is incompatable/causes errors with that....)


Is someone able to put together a list of components for a PC which can handle 4-5 Clients of eve Across 3 Monitors? I have a laptop which acts as the 4th monitor and is content to run 1 client without issues.

ty :P

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:25:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Chribba
Wait what how when?

I'll post my epeen computer when it has arrived in parts. But I must say I love RevoDrives...


7 minutes...you're slacking :)




Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:28:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 16/06/2011 22:27:58
Originally by: Ladrial
Celeritas Thankyou a very considered and well laid out post that all makes good sense thanks.

This is the load 4 clients running 1920x1080 with all in game graphic settings to max will put on my system while docked in CQ.

You can draw your own conclusions what you will need from here on but a few points points of interest are:

Each core on the CPU is only running at 50%
Over 6GB of RAM is used
If you tried to pull this off with less than 1.9GB effective frame buffer you would get 1fps. So unless you want to play with Anti-Alias at low or off make sure you have 2GB video memory per installed GPU (so 4GB dual GPU cards, or 2GB single GPU cards).

As for going 16GB RAM, yes it is overkill but have you seen how silly cheap 8GB of performance DDR3 ram is now?

Ladrial
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:33:00 - [48]
 

Mashie I dont know what that all means im sorry could you explain it simpliar for me thanks.

MaiLina KaTar
Posted - 2011.06.16 22:43:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 16:59:02
Originally by: Chuffer
pretty much a dead socket. Its waaaaay over priced and basically a dead end in terms of upgrade path.

Let's be honest - when was the last time you ever upgraded only your CPU and kept your old motherboard ?

Last week Razz

And uhm... who knows if it's overkill. He might need the fat CPU to be able to dock his four characters come Incarna Laughing

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 23:02:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
Mashie I dont know what that all means im sorry could you explain it simpliar for me thanks.

Ok, for a CPU either get an i7-2600k or and i5-2500k. Either will be plenty at stock speed. The 990x that the rep at OcUK suggested is a massive waste of money for what you plan on using it for.

For RAM, 8GB is the sweetspot as you need an even number of modules in Z68 motherboards, I suggest 2 x 4GB modules for easy upgrade in the future if needed.

Now the bit that is complex, the graphics. As you can see in that screenshot 4 clients running 1920x1080 with all settings maxed out will need at least 1836MB of video memory. As you are adding multiple videocards in a system the usable amount of memory isn't multiplied. So say you install two 1GB videocards thinking they will behave as 2GB, that isn't the case. The system will treat that as one 1GB card.

I didn't read up on the displays you will use but if they support displayport you can get away with using just one of these as they have 4 ports and an effective memory of 2GB. The other options are getting two GTX 580 3GB cards (like me) or two 2GB AMD cards such as the 6960.

And to repeat from earlier, if you want any kind of after sale support, stay away from overclockersuk.

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2011.06.19 11:06:00 - [51]
 

I found this and thought it might be another consideration, as they have some 4 x monitor setups/configs ready to go.

AK

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.19 11:44:00 - [52]
 

That'l do great until Tuesday... LaughingLaughing



Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.19 12:15:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 16/06/2011 16:15:52
Originally by: Ladrial
Intel Core i7 2600K 3.40GHz

Overkill, but eh, why not.
Personally, I would have preferred an "old style" i7 that can handle triple channel RAM and overclocking is NOT "turbo-boost" based, but manually selectable.
If you're going for overkill, get an i7-990X == OVERKILL !!!

Quote:
Kingston HyperX Genesis Grey 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Kit

More than sufficient.

Quote:
GX-146-OK OcUK GeForce GTX 580 1536MB GDDR5

Display Connectors: 2x Dual-Link DVI-I & 1x Mini-HDMI 1.4a (Includes HDMI & VGA Adapters)
You can't use 4 monitors with just one of those.

You'll need two video cards.
Feel free to downgrade to 2x GTX 560Ti (it's actually cheaper and much faster overall) or even 2x GTX 560 (much cheaper, and still a bit faster overall).
Plus you get 2 GB video RAM total that way.

EDIT : oh, you may want to change the Gigabyte Z68X-UD3P Intel Z68 mobo for something else as well in that case.
Quote:
Expansion Slots
1 x PCI Express x16 slots, running at x16 (PCIEX16)
* For optimum performance, if only one PCI Express graphics card is to be installed, be sure to install it in the PCIEX16 slot.
1 x PCI Express x16 slots, running at x8 (PCIEX8)
* The PCIEX8 slot shares bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot. When the PCIEX8 slot is populated with a PCI Express graphics card, the PCIEX16 slot will operate at up to x8 mode.
3 x PCI Express x1 slot
2 x PCI slots

Find one that supports two PCI-E slots both running at x16 for best performance.



Aside from the standard amd/ati vs nvidia, is xfire not outclassing SLI right now? 6xxx cards scale WAY better in xfire mode than nvidia cards in sli. Besides better drivers for that purpose (hey, one of those rare cases that ati/amd drivers are better than nvidias) it seems that nvidia 5xx cards lacking in the memory side compared to 6xxx cards.
Furthermore there is a good multi monitor support with amd/ati cards, a single amd card can support up to 4 screens with dvi/hdmi and even up to 6 displays with display port 1.2, and there is Eyefinity. Still you should be careful when buying that your chosen card has the ports you want and can support your monitor setup.

pcie 8/8 should be "ok", 16/16 still better, but less than 10% performance gain over 8/8.





Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.19 12:45:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 19/06/2011 12:57:34

Well, it's not like the OP was fast or precise in making his actual intentions known, so we had to make a lot of assumptions, and if you look to the next few posts you'll see how the recommendations get altered.
Also, eh, 10% extra performance is not quite something to scoff at, especially when it comes with less than 10% price increase.

1GB is 1GB, be it on an ATI or a NVIDIA.
But yeah, you're right, it's easier to find more video-RAM on ATI cards than on NVIDIA cards.

Oh, and 2-way SLI vs 2-way Crossfire, it's not like you'll really notice much of a difference, scaling-wise.
From what I understand, it's from 3 cards and up that you start having problems.
I might be understanding wrong though. Haven't actually tested myself, just read about it.

And as long as he actually keeps the client windows on separate screens, he might not even have to engage SLI/Crossfire mode at all in the first place, no ?
I mean, it should be possible to have each card managing two separate desktops, right ? Extend desktop instead of desktop span, that is.
Not really sure, haven't personally experimented with multi-card setups lately.

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.19 13:31:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Akita T

And as long as he actually keeps the client windows on separate screens, he might not even have to engage SLI/Crossfire mode at all in the first place, no ?
I mean, it should be possible to have each card managing two separate desktops, right ? Extend desktop instead of desktop span, that is.
Not really sure, haven't personally experimented with multi-card setups lately.


I am not sure how windows drivers handle separated desktops, if the drivers can separate the gfx cards from each other in such a scenario than xfire / sli performance and memory really become less relevant. But I would not bet my money on that.
Anyway for the performance benchmarks of dual-sli and tripple-sli here is a comparison: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crossfire-sli-scaling,2742-8.html
AMDs 6xxx series scales in general better than 5xx cards, in low resolutions a triple-setups are wasted anyway in high resolution setups amd shines even more.

If you compare 4xx vs 5xxx cards than nvidia looks a lot better again and seems to be the better solution for sli/xfire.

And by the way, less than 10% and sometimes the extra money for the 16/16 board actually make more than 10% of the whole systems, its always depending on the setup, sometimes 16/16 is a absolutely money saver, sometimes money is spend on something else better, depending on overall budget and system. It is something to consider, and if your spending some money or want to update later I guess you are right and 16/16 is the way to go. My next board will be a Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3.

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.19 13:44:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: AlleyKat

I do have a question though; why 4 monitors? Why not 3?



4 Accounts, each account gets its own screen, this should work fine. For spanning a main account 3 monitor setup should work better. For 3 Accounts a 4 monitor setup could work good as well, 2 Accounts get each their own monitor while the main account gets 2 monitors and the main ui is based on one screen while overview, chat and other stuff which "blocks" the screen is put onto the other display. Though it just looks and gives you no real game advantage over 3 monitors ;)

Scarlet des Loupes
Gallente
University of Caille
Posted - 2011.06.19 13:46:00 - [57]
 

Hahaha you're really a horrible bunch of nerds! Very Happy

Lucilla Giulia
Posted - 2011.06.19 13:57:00 - [58]
 

so uhm u guys say my configuration isn't enough?


ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.19 14:06:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Ladrial
im happy to spend maybe too much cash if it means i havent gotta touch the thing for 5yrs +.
That´s what we´re trying to explain to you.
Getting the super duper yardware now will NOT make your rig that more competitive 5 years in the future.
As by then they will have invented new crap that will "pawn" whatever was top notch, compared to now at practically bargain bin prizes.

Also don´t fall for the overhyped intel supremacy. The new intel sandybridge has some severe privacy issues all the intel fanbois just don´t want to hear about and therefor ridicule "unbelievers" vehemently.

Josefine Etrange
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.19 14:15:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: Ladrial
im happy to spend maybe too much cash if it means i havent gotta touch the thing for 5yrs +.
That´s what we´re trying to explain to you.
Getting the super duper yardware now will NOT make your rig that more competitive 5 years in the future.


Yes and no. It means his system will be crap in 5 years, but still he has not to TOUCH it for 5 years. At least if he get lucky enough not to use any components which will just break within 3 years like my last 10 pieces of asus hardware did (mainboards and graphic cards). That can be worth the extra money for some. Others like to update more regular and spend less or the same money per year while having on average better performance.


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