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blankseplocked The EVE 3rd-Party Shutdown Party - We don't want no stinkin' license
 
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Alex Stokes
Erben der Nacht
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:04:00 - [61]
 

Count me in as well.

Strich's Liquid Service will shut down all services at the weekend. All parts of my services (mostly run only in the biggest german eve forum) are directly or indirectly affected, because I need tools like EWA for my services. Not to mention my lottery (the part of my service also running in the official forum.)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.16 21:56:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

Obviously the answer to this question is up to each individual participant, but personally I am of the opinion that we should go forward with it. Although certainly a step in the right direction, CCP Zulu's reply highlights the fact that the opinions and feedback of the players and developers takes a back seat to their desire to spit out more candy-coated features that it seems most players don't want.

I believe that continuing with our demonstration will really help sink in the fact that as a united player base that is footing the bill for everything CCP does, we should at least have some input into how things are done, preferably before posting bad ideas to a dev blog and starting a 1000-post rage threadnaught.

Kronus


Ok signed.

Guys, let's do this. Go and put your name under the appeal, since it's a WAY better alternative draft than CCPs.

Jake Falcor
C0VEN
Posted - 2011.06.16 23:35:00 - [63]
 

I find CCP Zulu's response mostly disturbing. I don't know who came up with that mad idea, but it is just Bad.

For Eve, a game that is focused and based on community and player/player interactions, setting an artificial bar for any future attempts on 3rd party applications is ridiculous at the very least. Considering how much effort it takes for an application like that to be properly written, tested and introduced, an additional payment - bah even additional formalities like the ones suggested - are just a killer. I believe most of the existing applications will continue to exist one way or another, but what about new apps?

I am no application developer, but You guys have both my support and understanding in this.

OOT
I am somewhat happy that CCP considers player's opinion, but I believe it is still too little. CSM is great, representing mainly alliances they came from, but maybe you'll (CCP) look at casual players as well someday huh?

Crystal Wolf
Caldari
Invision Hosting
Posted - 2011.06.17 00:01:00 - [64]
 

Invision Hosting will withdraw it's participation for now. As CCP seem to have at least listened somewhat. I just hope their "Revised" scheme is not as ******ed as this was.

We will continue to keep an eye out and provide our support if needed.

Cheers

Crystal

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.17 01:27:00 - [65]
 

Consider reportbots.com, the PI POS Fuel Calculator and my other tools as being offline this weekend with a big message saying why.

I support this 100%. Let's demonstrate to CCP what the 3rd party developers really bring to the table.

Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
Posted - 2011.06.17 09:03:00 - [66]
 

Signed the document, but I think that is completely useless being open for the public. The document should be locked and posted so no one can modify it and signed through a post, since anyone can write anyone's name there and anyone can change what is written in it.

OMFG1111
Posted - 2011.06.17 09:04:00 - [67]
 

Don't forget EVE Survival and EVE Central

Mark Hamill
Amarr
Galactic Waste Management
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.17 12:36:00 - [68]
 

As the developer of EVETycoon, I support this initiative.

I never wrote EVETycoon with the purpose of making money. I wrote it for me and found people liked it and just went from there. While I do take donations to help offset the costs of developing and maintaining it, monetizing it was never my goal.

Furthermore, I do NOT in any way shape or form support the ignorant idea of turning EVE into a "WoW in Space" via MT. I pay a subscription fee every month. I expect to get EVERYTHING EVE has to offer for that fee. I do NOT expect to have to buy Plex cards on TOP of that in order to access extra items.

Even though they've somewhat retracted their initial dev blog regarding license fees, they have NOT heeded the call to abort this insane MicroTransaction greed.

EVETycoon's help files are all offline for the entire weekend. Furthermore, users who do start ET will be greeted in the Welcome Center by notice explaining why they're offline.


Frozen Guardian
Registered Amateur Mathematicians
Posted - 2011.06.17 13:28:00 - [69]
 

Hi,

I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.

So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.

Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.

-FG

Mark Hamill
Amarr
Galactic Waste Management
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.17 14:03:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Frozen Guardian
Hi,

I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.

So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.

Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.

-FG


Aurum is not a draft. This protest is ALSO about microtransactions. Please read EVERYTHING this protest is about before you post.

Frozen Guardian
Registered Amateur Mathematicians
Posted - 2011.06.17 20:18:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Frozen Guardian on 17/06/2011 20:31:30
Originally by: Mark Hamill
Originally by: Frozen Guardian
Hi,

I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.

So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.

Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.

-FG


Aurum is not a draft. This protest is ALSO about microtransactions. Please read EVERYTHING this protest is about before you post.


I have 0 problems with Aurum. I approve fully of CCP doing micro-transactions for the cosmetic stuff 100%. Anything else?

Edit: I'll go into a bit more detail why. If a person wishes to have a golden pimped out version of a scorpion or a monocle on their character then by all means. Who ever buys this stuff will not get an advantage in PvE or PvP so why should I care? If a person wants a special made tattoo of Chribba's face on their arm then let them spend 5 dollars. Unless CCP releases a micro-transaction where a player can buy a module better than an officer version or any version then I have a problem. They said during the tournament that this wasn't going to happen. No advantages. If people wish to look different and CCP spends some extra man power allowing this then that's great. Hell I may even spend some money but I doubt it.

Have you ever played Vindictus? The #1 thing people buy is the inner armor so their characters look hotter or cuter. It's so common that I'd say half the players I meet have some sort of different looking armor. That's wonderful. In Guild Wars a person can spend 10 dollars and buy a wedding dress. Does it give them an advantage? No. Do people buy this and enjoy spending a little extra money for something unique? Why yes you can see players wearing them once and a while. Why should CCP or any gaming company for that matter not allow players to look a little different? You think just because you're paying $15 a month you should be entitled to always free content all the time? Your $15 dollars goes to supporting the core part of the game not the extras. Hell Guild Wars doesn't even charge a monthly fee, should they not be allow to do micro-transactions? Just out of the goodness of their heart they should have several designers/coders just give you free things. If you don't want micro-transactions do you think CCP should just dedicate endless manhours to keep giving you free small little extras that don't have any meaning to the game itself other than cosmetics?

-FG

MichiG2
Posted - 2011.06.17 21:47:00 - [72]
 

I like EvE and CCP and i like develop some tools. That takes many time but there is no money i get for all that time. And if there is nobody who pays me that $99/year I am going to stop develop anything.

Paying $99/year and got a new API/Data_Dump .. without any time to get fixed the changes. $99 for any missing information about wich export-button will be missed after the next update? And wrong API-Data?

By the way: I also have to pay the server and url bill.

Page: TETRR

Caphelo
Posted - 2011.06.17 23:32:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Frozen Guardian


I have 0 problems with Aurum. I approve fully of CCP doing micro-transactions for the cosmetic stuff 100%. Anything else?

Edit: I'll go into a bit more detail why. If a person wishes to have a golden pimped out version of a scorpion or a monocle on their character then by all means. Who ever buys this stuff will not get an advantage in PvE or PvP so why should I care? If a person wants a special made tattoo of Chribba's face on their arm then let them spend 5 dollars. Unless CCP releases a micro-transaction where a player can buy a module better than an officer version or any version then I have a problem. They said during the tournament that this wasn't going to happen. No advantages. If people wish to look different and CCP spends some extra man power allowing this then that's great. Hell I may even spend some money but I doubt it.


You seem to have a lot more faith in CCP than most people. Most of us do not trust CCP to keep Aurum items limited to cosmetics. Two years ago, yeah maybe we would have trusted them, but not now, not the way CCP has been trending.

spackles Ibsol
Posted - 2011.06.17 23:46:00 - [74]
 

Typical over reaction by the eve for7um players, it's 100$ it is less than a single night on the **** out with ya mates, honestly the sky is not falling. As for stopping third party apps in protest....... LOL

That is easy gotten round, people dont need evemon to survive or EVEHQ, etc etc....They just think they do.I really an honestly think you lot are panicking over the sky falling for nothing.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.17 23:46:00 - [75]
 

Please don't derail this thread in the Aurum flames. There are enough on GD as is, go post there.

spackles Ibsol
Posted - 2011.06.17 23:57:00 - [76]
 

I am not trying to mate, I honestly believe that this entire issue is not that bigger deal. As for paying for the cosmetics, I see no problem at all there... It's a good idea hell we have played EVE for 7 years with all our ships looking exactly same, is it really a huge problem?

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.18 00:09:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 18/06/2011 00:12:27
I really don't know what to say to this. CCP asks for constructive feedback, we create a well-worded proposal document to do just that, and some ****ing prick decides to delete the entire thing. Whether you agree with CCP's devblog, disagree and would like to see changes, or are indifferent, that was just... I don't even have words for it. Ass-holes.

EDIT: due to Google being awesome and keeping a perfect revision history, it's been restored. Please have at least a little bit of respect this time, we're trying to do this constructively.

spackles Ibsol
Posted - 2011.06.18 00:19:00 - [78]
 

In all seriousness, does someone want to give me the cut down version of the issue.
It seems to me people dont want to pay for cosmetics, yes?. So if you want a decal on your ship or new hairstyle, your up in arms over that?....
The 100$ a year thing for evemon etc, seems quite piddling to me (not trying to insult). 30 cents a day doesn't seem like such a dramatic effect in my eyes.

I honestly dont get what the issue is. The fact they want to introduce payments for little visual decals is of no conqiquence whatsoever really.... It is purely up to you if you want them.It isn't like they are going to suddenly start charging you to your credit card every time you repair or you want to buy ammo... That is never going to happen.

Femaref
Armageddon Day
WE FORM VOLTRON
Posted - 2011.06.18 02:00:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: spackles Ibsol
In all seriousness, does someone want to give me the cut down version of the issue.
It seems to me people dont want to pay for cosmetics, yes?. So if you want a decal on your ship or new hairstyle, your up in arms over that?....
The 100$ a year thing for evemon etc, seems quite piddling to me (not trying to insult). 30 cents a day doesn't seem like such a dramatic effect in my eyes.

I honestly dont get what the issue is. The fact they want to introduce payments for little visual decals is of no conqiquence whatsoever really.... It is purely up to you if you want them.It isn't like they are going to suddenly start charging you to your credit card every time you repair or you want to buy ammo... That is never going to happen.


The protest is mainly about the clause requiring any free application or service to pay for a commercial license if they receive donations in the form ISK. This would include every lottery, every 3rd party service, every application asking for donations as a little give-back from the user, signature creation services and many more, if they are using parts of the eve IP, which quite frankly, you'll have to do if you want to offer an eve related service.

While I can't speak for everybody, I'm not as concerned about the actual commercial license for real commercial usage (ie. required payment).

In short: don't require a license for free (as in: no real money involved to buy the app/access) or ad-financed (for server hosting, not revenue) as those are already covered by the normal EULA. While problematic, a commercial license for commercial usage (ie. iPhone appstore) makes sense.

Etheoma
Posted - 2011.06.18 02:13:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Etheoma on 18/06/2011 03:46:22
Although it is a massive inconvenience to have all you guys shut down i wholeheartedly agree that charging 3rd party devs is totally unfair, non profit organisations don't need another charge on there already unprofitable site / applications I don't know why EVEMON is still online : / i know $99 a year isn't that much but the signal you send out with that charge is not a good one and the gesture will do more damage than the charge its self, even bringing it up has already probably done damage, I suggest CCP that you formally apologize and re-work the idea only to target those applications sites etc that make a profit, asking for donations to make back some of the money you spend when you have already spent your time on creating the thing is just plain wrong.

And CCP I may not totally give up eve because of this but if you go though with this i will drop my alt which i was planning to pay for, and i suggest that people with alts let there subscriptions run out for 48 hours or something as a show of support, i don't expect you to give up eve but a show of support to those who have helped us off there own back is the least we can do.

actually i wouldnt mind CCP adding like 10p or something to your subsciption if you want to use thrid party apps web sites etc that draw from API keys etc you would make a lot more money that way JUST THINK there are way better ways of doing this.

Wrath IX
Posted - 2011.06.18 04:00:00 - [81]
 

I totally agree with not charging 3rd party developers as it stands. These people work their collective tails off to make tools to enhance our collective gameplay experience.

I mean really, as far as i know all or at least most of these developers are also players so they are already paying to play the game. Not to mention the fact that most serious players have more then one account with an average as far as I can tell of 3 accounts

I can't imagine that CCP is so hurting for money that they would need to do this to our developers.

So Unless that $99 unlocks some bat cave level secret to making their programs work more smoothly or integrate more smothly with eve, then don't do it

Azazel Mordred
Minmatar
Cloak of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.18 08:03:00 - [82]
 

OOE is partying.

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.18 09:39:00 - [83]
 

EVEWalletAware has joined the party yesterday.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.18 11:57:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Hel O'Ween
EVEWalletAware has joined the party yesterday.


Now your signature got new a meaning about the "offline wallet manager" bit. Razz

Evanova Android
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:18:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Frozen Guardian
Hi,

I do NOT support this demonstration. While myself am affected by the upcoming changes you are unfortunately going a ye bit crazy over a "draft" version. Unless that **** was coming out in a week and we were being forced to do it then it would be a different story. Right now doing a turn off of services for two days when the final version hasn't even been written is going a bit too far.

So everyone please let CCP fix this and get a better and more official version going before you go all crazy on them. CCP has said some pretty crazy things in the past and have gone back on them with our feedback. Go to the official thread and voice your opinion and just wait for a little bit. Okay? If you show CCP you're willing to hear them out is going to get a far better response than raging with turning off your services well before anything has been set in stone.

Yes it's okay to just wait for the time being. Clear your mind and go shoot some noob moving a plex in a shuttle.

-FG


I have to agree entirely with this. As I see it, this is only a *draft* and the whole idea behind it is to make it easier to 3rd parties to make money. The Capsuleer story showed us how hard it was to get CCP on a business license. I secretly hope CCP understood that and tried to come up with some easy licensing scheme.

Of course they need to mess up a good move with misinformed decisions and ill-conceived ideas. Hell, it's CCP we are talking about! But at least they don't slam it on us. There is a LOT of room for improvement and the best developers could do is work with CCP on a scheme that would be good for both parties.

For my part, I have just posted 'Evanova', which is 6-month worth of work packed as a free Android application for Eve, no later than yesterday.
I am outraged as much as anyone about the donations and ISK parts, but 99$ sounds reasonable to me if I want to SELL my application on the Android Market. Actually, it is much better than having to go through the misery of dealing with CCP to get such a deal.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:34:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 18/06/2011 12:35:24
Originally by: Evanova Android

I have to agree entirely with this. As I see it, this is only a *draft* and the whole idea behind it is to make it easier to 3rd parties to make money. The Capsuleer story showed us how hard it was to get CCP on a business license. I secretly hope CCP understood that and tried to come up with some easy licensing scheme.

Of course they need to mess up a good move with misinformed decisions and ill-conceived ideas. Hell, it's CCP we are talking about! But at least they don't slam it on us. There is a LOT of room for improvement and the best developers could do is work with CCP on a scheme that would be good for both parties.

For my part, I have just posted 'Evanova', which is 6-month worth of work packed as a free Android application for Eve, no later than yesterday.
I am outraged as much as anyone about the donations and ISK parts, but 99$ sounds reasonable to me if I want to SELL my application on the Android Market. Actually, it is much better than having to go through the misery of dealing with CCP to get such a deal.



This did not became a draft in some magical way. Actually this IS the draft CCP style, in the sense it started as final, then the outrage made them patch it and finally they backpedalled it and put the late flag: "draft" at the end.

If people stood in faithful waiting, maybe 3 days from now we'd have to pay already.

Also, no one (including us) ever had anything to say about the license for payware apps, in fact we are in the other half of the license, the freeware apps.

Mamba Lev
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.18 12:38:00 - [87]
 

I wish i had a site to shut down for this. It's a **** take.

Azazel Mordred
Minmatar
Cloak of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.18 13:16:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Evanova Android

I am outraged as much as anyone about the donations and ISK parts, but 99$ sounds reasonable to me if I want to SELL my application on the Android Market. Actually, it is much better than having to go through the misery of dealing with CCP to get such a deal.



I absolutely agree with this. If their licensing proposal can be redone in such a way that it only applies to applications with commercial aspirations, that would be great for everyone.

Consortium Agent
Posted - 2011.06.18 14:45:00 - [89]
 

ReportBots, PI POS Fuel Calculator, et all have joined the party as of yesterday. Site and all tools will remain down all weekend with a nice note about why and a link to the threadnaught CCP created with their stupidity.

I sat in Jita half the day yesterday posting about this issue in local and will continue to take time out of my day and game to do the same all weekend, and longer if I must.

Cyri Huren
Posted - 2011.06.18 18:07:00 - [90]
 

not that my site is huge or very large in any way but I will definitely sign up for this site down :-)

07capsuleer.com is offline for the weekend


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