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Mara Rinn
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:23:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
if you can get dotlan, battleclininc and eve-kill


Dotlan FTW. Everyone I know uses it, only a few use killboards (we're a bunch of hisec carebears).

Arec Bardwin
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:25:00 - [32]
 

Can't wait for the epic ****storm to hit if dotlan and eve-files goes down Razz

cyclobs
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:30:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: cyclobs on 16/06/2011 06:31:56
http://twitter.com/#!/Wollari/status/81089366746861569

Quote:
Wollari @EveOnline I won't pay a 2nd monthly/yearly fee to actually not play eve, cause I spend more time to work for the community rather playing


edit: and post here http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1528607&page=18#514

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.16 07:29:00 - [34]
 

I put the money where the tongue is.

Effective earlier today, after that sorry abortion of a blog, I have already shutdown every and all of both my in game and out of game services and websites (official announcement).

Therefore since today the foolowing services have joined the OP's initiative:

- Running audits will be immediately and all aborted starting now.

- 3rd party service, research etc, stopped.

- The upcoming RL trading course, stopped.


Here is the list of open to everyone services that I will have to shutdown

EvE Emergency Trust PLEX Charity initiative when RL disasters happen (featured on Fanfest 2011 videos, donated > $4000 to Japanese)
Official EvE thread

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site

EvE Technical Analysis (finance)
Official EvE thread

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site

EvE Public Audits Archive (Market Discussion investments)

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site

EvE Public Investmens Records (Market Discussion investments)

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site


EvE Charting Service
Official EvE thread

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site

NEISIN free app
Official EvE thread

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site

EvE Income Analyzer (trading / sales analysis graphs and statistics)

Hosted on
Vahrokh.com official sub-site



Here's the proof:

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


I am also seeking for attorney consultancy, since I have invested 6 months of hard work setting up that many services plus operation expenses for paid domain, paid commercial hosting, paid certificate. I quantify my assets and moral losses in $10,000. Thanks CCP! That's your support to those who made your game famous, for free and at their expense!

davcin
Caldari
davcin Corp
Posted - 2011.06.16 07:43:00 - [35]
 

Even if EVEViewer is pretty much broken at the moment (because of all the API updates) and I don't plan to update it for the time being, you have all my support.

Thart
U.K.R.A.I.N.E
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2011.06.16 07:57:00 - [36]
 


Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.16 07:59:00 - [37]
 

Thank you all for your support. For those of you who have taken down your sites already, I encourage you to use a placeholder page that informs viewers of why the site is down (in protest of license fee), and encourages them to take the issue up with CCP.

Tomorrow I will create a simple single-file page that anyone who likes can download and put up in place of their normal service page, which will include the details of our protest (oh wait... do I need a license to do that?)

Venetian Tar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:01:00 - [38]
 

If this includes corporate websites and killboards, this is going to **** a lot of people (including myself) off.

Lutz Major
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:03:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Lutz Major on 16/06/2011 08:13:55
I was really ****ed off by this:
Quote:
We will continue to provide technical assistance via the Technology Lab forum and IRC channel, but CCP does not offer formal technical support to developers or warrant the API in any way. It's provided as is.


I don't have any official 3rd party software running but will contribute to this demonstration, by not giving any support for any questions regarding API, SSD, ... for the next two weeks.

Let CCP provide technical assistance on how to associate typeNames, import Market data into spreadsheets, document API features and bugs, creating queries to determine manufacturing component quantities and so on and so forth


Edit: I hope other contributers of this forum will follow and cease giving assistance for some time

Trenker
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:05:00 - [40]
 

Count me in! I will shut down my site for this weekend and display a notice about this instead.

I have only one app (my Agent finder), which does neither charge ISK nor place any ads, but require every app author to obtain a license is VERY damaging to the EVE Online franchise.

The data provided by CCP (Dumps and API) became a source of an important part of Eve's game mechanics. The free nature of this data invites everyone to experiment and create new stuff. That may not be apps at all, but just some snippets or something, which may become the base of an actual great app. I for one have only one public app, but several private ones, which I created for fun and self - education. This way of creativity would be closed if licenses for every sort of API data based apps are required.

A licensing program for apps that charge real money is a good thing and a reasonable decision. The data itself however and the apps based on them, should not require a license.

An idea would be to release the dumps as well as the data provided by the API under a license like Creative Commons Non - Commercial License or something like that.

I think this is a very bad move of CCPs marketing directors, as it would seriously damage the reputation you people build inside the community for years.

Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:35:00 - [41]
 

Have been working on a project for over a month now, have stopped working on it now.
If this is truly the way CCP treats it's customers, I might not even bother playing EVE anymore either.

The player created apps and websites add value to their game FOR FREE.
If their web devs weren't total tards the api system would actually work properly and not be such a money sink for them, never mind eve gate.


Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:39:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Midge Mo''yb on 16/06/2011 09:10:48
the only way i could see this as acceptable is by only targeting it at people trying to make money off it (read iphone/android apps) and the like

but seriously i have ****loads of webapps(no adds,but some include isk transfers) that i use for various tasks and im going to have to pay $99 a year for the privelage?

i understand ccp having to protect there IP but, the people who will suffer are not the people who ccp are protecting themselves from, and to pay for something that is provided as is? **** that - the current support is dire.
-edit: Fixed typo :p


Erik CoolBreeze
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:44:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Midge Mo'yb

but seriously i have ****loads of webapps(no adds,but some include isk transfers) that i use for various tasks and im not going to have to pay $99 a year for the privelage?



You are, if it was just people charging RL cash for their services, I would have no problem with the license.
Ads or ISK for services should be free.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:50:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Venetian Tar
If this includes corporate websites and killboards, this is going to **** a lot of people (including myself) off.


Yes, it includes the 95% of killboards that are public.

Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
Posted - 2011.06.16 08:55:00 - [45]
 

Even a lot of corp/alliance sites will be effected. Since some larger alliances do have ads/donation areas up to help cover hosting costs. Add to the fact that said sites/forums also use API for security reasons means they will fall under the commercial licensing.

Crystal Wolf
Caldari
Invision Hosting
Posted - 2011.06.16 09:59:00 - [46]
 

Invision Hosting will be supporting this movement.

We will take down our main site, public killboard and free services. However services for existing paying customers will remain active during this time.

Our EVE online topic can be found here

Our site is here

Venetian Tar
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2011.06.16 10:11:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Originally by: Venetian Tar
If this includes corporate websites and killboards, this is going to **** a lot of people (including myself) off.


Yes, it includes the 95% of killboards that are public.


So what exactly are the incentives to continue running my corp website?

I know $99 isn't a lot, but hosting is almost that for a year anyway. CCP, your intelligence knows no bounds when it comes to out-of-game services for those who require it as part of a corporation.

Zakarumit CZ
Amarr
Zakarum Industries
Exiliar Syndicate
Posted - 2011.06.16 11:37:00 - [48]
 

I am not a big developer of any public known programs, I have just written 2 simple programs for calculating mining profits for my own purpose and of course some spreadsheets. I just want to say I am using a lot of public known 3rd party software and I find it awesome. And I am really against monetizing them. I support you guys, all of you! This is really bad bad idea, CCP.Evil or Very Mad

Ashra Tesh
Posted - 2011.06.16 11:56:00 - [49]
 

Honestly, I have no problem with this and I fail to see why you guys to. Sure, I get that you don't want to pay, but 99$ a year is less than you're paying for your eve subscription, most of which you probably don't even pay because you use PLEX paid for with ISK.

This is an opportunity for people to actually make money, and while I've never released anything I've done with the API, it gives me a pretty awesome incentive to polish them up from raw tools to something pretty that others would love. Hell... even if I asked for 1$ or 2$ for the program (Which is DIRT CHEAP) to activate or use the program as a one time or yearly fee, that is only 99 or 50 pilots respectively that would need to pay before my costs are covered. On a game like eve, That's nothing at all, I could get that in like 10 minutes from the public channels I lurk in/My corporation members.

Hell, if your project is good enough you can charge 10$ and all you need is 10 pilots to cover your costs. I read a quote from the eve university guy up there - Sure, I get that you don't want to charge but you could easily cover your liscence + pay for most of your hosting too.

TL:DR - I think this is a great idea, HOWEVER, I am in agreement that charging ISK only should not require the paid liscence.

SystemAdministrator
Amarr
Invision Hosting
Posted - 2011.06.16 12:09:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ashra Tesh
Honestly, I have no problem with this and I fail to see why you guys to. Sure, I get that you don't want to pay, but 99$ a year is less than you're paying for your eve subscription, most of which you probably don't even pay because you use PLEX paid for with ISK.

This is an opportunity for people to actually make money, and while I've never released anything I've done with the API, it gives me a pretty awesome incentive to polish them up from raw tools to something pretty that others would love. Hell... even if I asked for 1$ or 2$ for the program (Which is DIRT CHEAP) to activate or use the program as a one time or yearly fee, that is only 99 or 50 pilots respectively that would need to pay before my costs are covered. On a game like eve, That's nothing at all, I could get that in like 10 minutes from the public channels I lurk in/My corporation members.

Hell, if your project is good enough you can charge 10$ and all you need is 10 pilots to cover your costs. I read a quote from the eve university guy up there - Sure, I get that you don't want to charge but you could easily cover your liscence + pay for most of your hosting too.

TL:DR - I think this is a great idea, HOWEVER, I am in agreement that charging ISK only should not require the paid liscence.


I can tell you didn't read our thread and your TLDR proves it. We wouldn't have a problem if we were charging real money for our apps and services.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.16 12:26:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: SystemAdministrator

I can tell you didn't read our thread and your TLDR proves it. We wouldn't have a problem if we were charging real money for our apps and services.


I would.

I did not choose to play a game because I got randomly hit by a golf club. I chose to play a game to have fun and share what I have made. For zero, nada, null, zilch money nor ISK.

If I wanted to earn money I would have just done an RL job, where making $10 is infinitely easier than convincing a squadron of cheap-o-students to shell for some amateur application.

But hey, no only I wanted to share for FREE to EVERYONE, I also paid my own DNS server, hosting, certificates, developement.

What a loan shark I am for having put 2 Google ads that earned me 0.26 euros in 6 months! I clearly deserve to ALSO pay $99 on top of that!

For work I have done *before* this farcical blog came out. So now I am damaged for things done before this "contract" came out. I demand idemnification for assets and moral damage, quantifiable in USD 10,000.

Deal? Then I'll pay CCP the $99.
But just for a year, because then they can GTFO, because I don't have to have to do anything in common with them any more.

Janus Talmash
Talmash Imports and Exports Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 12:32:00 - [52]
 

They managed to **** off Chribba, that's quite a feat. They're sh!tting on the very people who made EVE into what it is. Chribba's sites, Dotlan, BC, evemaps. You know; the things CCP was unable to do themselves so players stepped in and made it happen. It's not about the amount really, it's about having no ****ing clue on what they're doing, how that affects the players and what it does to their reputation.

They have NO FCKING CLUE!

SystemAdministrator
Amarr
Invision Hosting
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:15:00 - [53]
 

People Power!

Linkage

realdognose
Caldari
Biotronics Inc.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2011.06.16 15:43:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: realdognose on 16/06/2011 15:43:48
Edited by: realdognose on 16/06/2011 15:43:25
EVEolution - YOUR Windows Phone Character Monitor will join this. ugh

Rath Kaldraz
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:23:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 08:12:20
Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 08:09:44
Participants List:

ArrowEVE Commander
ArrowEVE Emergency Alert System
ArrowOut Of Eve
ArrowEVE Mentat
ArrowMy Agent Finder
ArrowEveViewer
ArrowEvE Emergency Trust
ArrowEvE Technical Analysis
ArrowEvE Public Audits Archive
ArrowEvE Public Investment Records
ArrowEvE Charting Service
ArrowNEISEN Free App
ArrowEvE Income Analyzer
ArrowEve001Tool


It would be great if you could keep a running total of the estimated number of players (or accounts) these apps being down will effect.

Kolimara
Amarr
Posted - 2011.06.16 16:42:00 - [56]
 

Im in with my little NEAT EveAccounting Tool
About 200 active Chars affected by this. Not much, but they are addicted ;)

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:06:00 - [57]
 

Kronus are we still going with this, after CCP Zulu's reply?

Arec Bardwin
Posted - 2011.06.16 17:37:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: CCP Zulu
Hello all.

At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say Im impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.

There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.

It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).

Its obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.

Unfortunately that will take some time and were kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.

So what well do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.

As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.

Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.16 18:07:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 18:08:12
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Kronus are we still going with this, after CCP Zulu's reply?


Obviously the answer to this question is up to each individual participant, but personally I am of the opinion that we should go forward with it. Although certainly a step in the right direction, CCP Zulu's reply highlights the fact that the opinions and feedback of the players and developers takes a back seat to their desire to spit out more candy-coated features that it seems most players don't want.

I believe that continuing with our demonstration will really help sink in the fact that as a united player base that is footing the bill for everything CCP does, we should at least have some input into how things are done, preferably before posting bad ideas to a dev blog and starting a 1000-post rage threadnaught.

Also, I believe that through our demonstration, we will convince CCP to seriously consider the appeal and recommendations document that we are creating. On that note, I encourage everyone to contribute to this document.

Kronus

Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
EVE Trade Consortium
Posted - 2011.06.16 20:21:00 - [60]
 

A question/suggestion: could some native english speaker create a paragraph or two which we could put on our web sites?

This would help us poor aliens a lot and also would at the same time show our common stance on this matter.

It's easy enough to rant on the forums in a foreign language, but putting a well-formulated protest note together is a bit different.

Thank you very much.

Oh, although I can't really "stop my services", as my app is a desktop app (EVEWalletAware, that is), not a web/online service, I would join in the protest and disable all the links from the main page to the donwload and manual and just show our protest text.


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