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Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:01:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 06:48:41
Please note that this is a peaceful demonstration that does not endorse, encourage, or condone malicious behaviour such as DDoS attacks or hacking attempts

After watching and participating in the rage that has become of the dev thread on introducing the $99 developers fee, I have taken it upon myself to organize a shut-down of third party services in protest of these actions.

I propose that for 48 hours during the weekend of June 18/19, 2011, all 3rd-party developers who provide their services for free, but would be required to pay the $99/year license fee due to accepting donations or because they are supported by ads, or developers who only charge in-game ISK for their services, take their websites/applications offline to demonstrate to CCP what will happen if they follow through with this and convince developers to rage-quit

In a game with this steep of a learning curve and where nearly every corp/player uses the API in one way or another, 3rd party development becomes a natural extension of the game, and a crucial component of it. To charge people who pour countless hours of work into it, who pay hosting fees out of their pocket and accept donations to try and cover these costs, is ignorant beyond belief. To charge real-life money for a commercial license for applications that charge nothing but ISK, which by definition has NO commercial value, is pure, unadulterated stupidity.

If you are a developer or webmaster for an application/service that fits this category, post here to proclaim your support. The post below contains a list of all services that are participating.

As developers who donate our free time, who skip work/class to maintain our services, who pour our life blood into the pursuit of a better EVE, we must rise up and demonstrate that will not lie down and take this.

To CCP:
- We don't want to be charged for making your game better
- We don't want microtransactions
- We just want you to fix the damned lag

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:05:00 - [2]
 


Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:07:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 19:15:20

Official Appeal and Recommendations



This is a public Google Doc I have created for the purpose of assembling an official appeal to the $99 license fee, as well as for providing constructive and useful feedback for what a more realistic monetization system should look like. Please be respectful of this document.

UPDATE: the document is coming along nicely, please contribute and sign your name to the bottom if you agree with the proposal!

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:18:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 06:29:33
My Favourite Quotes
Originally by: Chribba
ok seriously, I've like Ctrl+A, backspace this post 5 times now, tbh I'm out of words.

I would like to know how many 3rd party developer/sites are doing it for the ****ing awesome income it generates?! Seriously, this if anything WILL kill development of sites and services.

As a creator of sites/applications/services for New Eden since well over 6 years now, I can tell you that I have never once created something with the goal to make money off it, this whole thing about needing a license to make something for the community is just ****ing ******ed! Just hearing this makes my interest/will for developing things crash.

This is not about the $99, this is about how you want to charge me because I want to do something for the community out of my free will - does that sense? Do you feel I am stealing your IP, making massive amounts of money off your IP? Then tell me straight up, don't try to bind it into some fluffy clouds and call it "great news".

Every IPO in Market Discussions will now require a license, since after all, it's donations. Corporations should get a license too, I mean having a corp tax of >0.0% could be seen as a donation to the corporation...

And yeah, I guess me and everyone else with an EVE IP tattoo will need a license, I mean, some other geek may think it's awesome and want to buy me a beer...

I'm just very sad to see this even being discussed, talk about a punch in the face. Don't get me wrong, I see your point of EVE IP, and yes I can agree that it may need to be controlled to some extent, but this is not the way. Not by far.

/c

Originally by: Kelduum Revaan
Ok, my turn now.

For those who don't know me, I'm the CEO of EVE University, and I run a fairly popular site with 110,000+ unique visitors per month across all the sites.

Hosting costs aren't cheap at all, as there's the forums, wiki, mumble server and so on open to the community at large, and in fact, right now I am in the middle of moving to another hosting platform that can cope with the level of traffic we get.

To run all our services, we accept donations of ISK and items in-game, and use Shattered Crystal affiliate links and PayPal donations to cover the majority of the server/hosting costs.

In short, we pretty much break even assuming we don't have any major outgoings, and something like $99 per year, while possible (I'd have to either fund it out of my own pocket, or ask for donations, which I hate) would be far from ideal.

To CCP in general: I think its safe to say the devblog needs some drastic clarifications, or there is a very good chance you will lose the people who love EVE so much they go beyond subscribing and buying GTCs/PLEX - they spend their free time to help the community, and by extension CCP.

Originally by: Phigmeta

Here let me translate that for you:

CCP has decided that:

a) our war on RMT has not gone well because our PLEX sales are stagnant.
b) The reaction of the Eve folk to the JB nerf has NOT made more supers die (therefore forcing more PLEX purchases)
c) We anticipate that the AOR idea won't really take off because this ISN'T freaking WOW
d) We are getting more and more greedy and really only working on stuff that makes YOU spend more RL money on our stupidity.

SOOOO we have now opened up a new way to screw you .... thank me.


Originally by: Mr Rive
No CCP, its not all about the money. You just sold your biggest fans out

Originally by: J Kunjeh
Only those charging RL money should be charged RL money.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:32:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: woddel on 15/06/2011 19:35:15
in with www.eve-commander.com (8'400+ registered users), agents.eve-commander.com and various webshops that use the eve api and data export, including our alliance site.

woddel

ps : i charge isk subscriptions for an 'full' version while a 'basic' version is free. i never even tried to receive real life money. i'm not (and never will be) interested in that: i earn close to 12'000 dollars a month - but i like having a nyx or two without having to buy plexes for it.

Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:34:00 - [6]
 

I wish I had some kind of 3rd party service, but you'll have to be satisfied with my moral support.

Azazel Mordred
Minmatar
Cloak of Shadows
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 - [7]
 

I'm happy to bring down Out of Eve. It doesn't have a boatload of users signed up there (most people host their own instance), and I make zero RL and in-game money off it, but the licensing and fees idea is shocking, so I'll throw in my 0.02 support.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:37:00 - [8]
 

and get chribba on board. and wollari from evemaps.dotlan.net. and the guys from battleclinic and eve university.

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:40:00 - [9]
 

Chribba, Dotlan, Eve-Central, Eve-Agent's, Battle Clinic's EVE page.

Throw in a few of the big null-sec alliance's homepages and you got yourself a party.

Dretzle Omega
Caldari
Global Economy Experts
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:53:00 - [10]
 

The issue with the in-game ISK thing is that in-game ISK can be turned into real life money. So, a developer trying to avoid the commercial license could charge 25Mil a month instead of $1 a month, and get his PLEX = Real Life Money.

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
offline to demonstrate to CCP that they need us more than we need them.


I don't understand. CCP, the one that gives you the ability to access their in-game data, needs you more than you need them? The logic... doesn't compute.

Sorry, not trying to troll. I just have some logical problems with the protest, but this stems partly, I suppose, because I'm not affected by the new license rules.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:56:00 - [11]
 

Drezle : you can't convert plex to real money. you can only save some money by using a plex to extend your account instead of using your credit card. meaning, you can, at most, play eve for free - but never get 'rich' out of it.

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dretzle Omega
The issue with the in-game ISK thing is that in-game ISK can be turned into real life money. So, a developer trying to avoid the commercial license could charge 25Mil a month instead of $1 a month, and get his PLEX = Real Life Money.



The thing about PLEX is that even if you use ISK to buy it, someone somewhere payed real-life money to get it into the game. More people buying plex with ISK means more people buying plex with RL money so they can sell it for ISK. It's all the same to CCP.

Doktor Csernus
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:16:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Doktor Csernus on 15/06/2011 20:16:24
I could write a wall of text with full of truth and rage, but CCP wouldn't care.
Yet, 3 of 4 subscription is down and they sending emails to ask me WHY?
As(S)k yourself.

Bom Barley
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:19:00 - [14]
 

Took down my Eve001Tool app.

Originally by: Bom Barley
As a protest against this abysmal decision, I've decided I will not be selling anymore Eve001Tool licences.

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Khanid Voltar
Night's Dawn Investment Fund
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:51:00 - [15]
 

You guy seemed to have missed the CEO's opinions as stated on Twitter a few hours ago:

Originally by: Hilmar Veigar
#tweetfleet I love @EveOnline they try to make a balanced, reasonable (seems so) approach to monetizing 3PP, and whiners explode. #moartears
3 hours ago


Best thing about social networking - you can tell your customer base what you think of them and they will all just bend over and ask for more.

KV

Amy Garzan
Gallente
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:13:00 - [16]
 

Please make sure you have a splash screen on WHY you have your site shut down on these days. Otherwise you will end up just ****ing people off.


I support you all in this endeavor!

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.06.15 22:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Khanid Voltar
You guy seemed to have missed the CEO's opinions as stated on Twitter a few hours ago:

Originally by: Hilmar Veigar
#tweetfleet I love @EveOnline they try to make a balanced, reasonable (seems so) approach to monetizing 3PP, and whiners explode. #moartears
3 hours ago


Best thing about social networking - you can tell your customer base what you think of them and they will all just bend over and ask for more.

KV


To be fair that was a retweet of a post by @swearte.

I don't agree with anything other than charging a licensing fee for those that want to make real life cash out of the sales of apps. It is discouraging to find such a small amount of real discussion buried under the mountain of whine and misinformation.

Xia Long
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2011.06.15 23:26:00 - [18]
 

full support to your initiative!
and thanks again for the hours you guys spend/spent to make EVE more playable for us

Nathan Gorden
Caldari
Strategic Investments Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:32:00 - [19]
 

I support this initiative. I'm currently in the process of developing EMM-Corporate. A market management and comparison tool designed and developed to assist in the creation of trader based corporations. The sole purpose would be to allow trades to focus on select market areas and apply a corporations worth of trading power to influence the market. If CCP does continue with their plan to create a fee based structure for the API access. All of my programming will have go to waste. There is no reason why I would pay $99 for a years access to digital nothing while I already pay a monthly fee to play the game. My development is purely out of fun and love for the game. Not because I am a programming company or any other entity that would profit. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.06.16 00:36:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Nathan Gorden
I support this initiative. I'm currently in the process of developing EMM-Corporate. A market management and comparison tool designed and developed to assist in the creation of trader based corporations. The sole purpose would be to allow trades to focus on select market areas and apply a corporations worth of trading power to influence the market. If CCP does continue with their plan to create a fee based structure for the API access. All of my programming will have go to waste. There is no reason why I would pay $99 for a years access to digital nothing while I already pay a monthly fee to play the game. My development is purely out of fun and love for the game. Not because I am a programming company or any other entity that would profit. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.


If it's purely out of fun and love for the game are you planning on charging for your application?

Nathan Gorden
Caldari
Strategic Investments Group
Posted - 2011.06.16 01:45:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Rees Noturana
Originally by: Nathan Gorden
I support this initiative. I'm currently in the process of developing EMM-Corporate. A market management and comparison tool designed and developed to assist in the creation of trader based corporations. The sole purpose would be to allow trades to focus on select market areas and apply a corporations worth of trading power to influence the market. If CCP does continue with their plan to create a fee based structure for the API access. All of my programming will have go to waste. There is no reason why I would pay $99 for a years access to digital nothing while I already pay a monthly fee to play the game. My development is purely out of fun and love for the game. Not because I am a programming company or any other entity that would profit. I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous.


If it's purely out of fun and love for the game are you planning on charging for your application?



No, I wasn't going to charge. I would however accept any ISK kickbacks.

Crystal Wolf
Caldari
Invision Hosting
Posted - 2011.06.16 02:26:00 - [22]
 

I have just the Dev blog and i am not too happy. We provide services for ingame ISK however we put out a lot of USD for servers, domains, software etc.. So it's not like i'm getting ISK for nothing this would just add a little extra pain. For future projects we have both free and paid software in the works but none make real cash so why should we have to pay.

The amount they charge doesn't hugely matter the issue like others have said above we are being charged to put our time and effort in for this community.

I would be unhappy to see an devs stop work because of this since there are many talented developers within the EVE community and many great services offered.

@CCP Go back to drawing board and allow purely for ISK and free services to operate without a license because essentially the people who are being screwed are the ones who don't charge real cash for their projects.

Rees Noturana
Red Rock Mining Company
Posted - 2011.06.16 02:59:00 - [23]
 

I don't see the current terms lasting for long. My guess is the lawyers got involved and started doing their thing to protect CCP's IP with typical lawyer overkill and disregard for those providing because of their passion. Personally, I was waiting on the licensing for paid apps before I did much more with my project. I doubt there is much money to be made but its nice to get something back.

For community apps I think licensing fees in order to allow ISK or the random donation is nuts and won't last more than a few days before the next rewrite.

cyclobs
Minmatar
Posted - 2011.06.16 04:43:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: cyclobs on 16/06/2011 05:16:11
when i read that blog i could not believe what i was seeing, i want to know what happened to ccp. i remember when i first joined eve, ccp was the top company. now.. i just have no respect for it

supporting you guys

edit:

links for you to see op
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1528607&page=10#299

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:16:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Antihrist Pripravnik on 16/06/2011 05:17:10
Changed my signature to give some support to this post.

Thart
U.K.R.A.I.N.E
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2011.06.16 05:43:00 - [26]
 

EVE Mentat supports this movement!
I'll write official appeal soon.

Zagdul
Gallente
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:16:00 - [27]
 

if you can get dotlan, battleclininc and eve-kill in on this.

you win.

Caphelo
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:21:00 - [28]
 

Why just a weekend? Do the whole week!

riverini
Gallente
Reliables Inc
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:21:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: riverini on 16/06/2011 06:30:50
Eve News24 support this, yet we will report on the Shutdown itself to give it as much exposure as possible, will make sure this reaches SlashDot / News sites.

Talked to Karbowiak from Eve-Kill.net:

Quote:
EVE-KILL wont be joining in on this, but we symphatise with all of you - but if CCP continues we will see if we can't find a way to help out the 3rd party developers (ie. no 99$ payment)


R

Kronus Heilgar
Dark Orbit Media
Posted - 2011.06.16 06:22:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Kronus Heilgar on 16/06/2011 06:28:44
Anyone have contact info for developers of BattleClinic?

I have created a Google Doc which I would like to use to create an official letter of appeal, which will include proposed changes to the monetization system. I encourage all developers with basic writing skills (often lacking for us programmers, I know!) to contribute, to do our part to provide constructive and effective feedback!

Please do not be destructive with this public document.

Official Appeal and Recommendations


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