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Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:42:00 - [1]
 

So reading the latest devblog, i notice this;
Quote:
Will I be able to charge real life currency for in game services?
No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services.


Quote:
Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?
Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


so let me get this right... we cant actually do anything -new- here... like charge real money for our services....

but services like killboards for isk... will now be required to pay 100 bucks a year to continue operating?

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:48:00 - [2]
 

You're missing one thing you are now allowed to do (which you could have probably done before, but risked a CCP "cease-and-desist" order).
You're going to be allowed to charge cash to the people that use the killboard as opposed to ISK.

But other than that, yeah, pretty much what you said.

Ervyn
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:50:00 - [3]
 

I think by in-game services they mean ships, courier, merc contracts, that sort of thing. A killboard is not an in-game service as it has no effect on your in-game character.

Takseen
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:51:00 - [4]
 

Does this mean we could get another Eve-metrics site up, even paying a small fee for it? It was quite a bit better than eve-central but apparently it collapsed due to a lack of funds.

Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:54:00 - [5]
 

Make killboards cost 10,000 USD a month .. I wouldn't mind!! Laughing

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:56:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 15/06/2011 17:57:42
CCP has up untill now completely allowed the use of isk-for-killboards and other game related services. Without risking any kind of legal problems.

Now, they've formalized the process... so you can be sure those legal issues ARE around the corner now.

I guess they've taken note from RIAA and decided to start going after their own customer base. TBH i dont really blame them because of how we treat them. Its just sad to see them pound us for every penny they can before eve dies.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 17:57:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ervyn
I think by in-game services they mean ships, courier, merc contracts, that sort of thing. A killboard is not an in-game service as it has no effect on your in-game character.

The Q&A section doesn't mention "in-game services" but "services for in-game currency".
Basically, if you charge ISK, or if you accept cash donations, or if you use ad revenue to keep your site afloat, you HAVE to pay 99$/year.
That, or risk being sent a shutdown notice, and more importantly, risk getting your site/domain/subnet blocked from API access in case you don't comply (thus effectively shutting you down anyway).

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:04:00 - [8]
 

This is the most anti-community thing ccp has done in... ever.

Honestly, what other videogame company requires you to pay 100 dollars to run a fansite or game related forums?

Gank'aho
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:23:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ervyn
I think by in-game services they mean ships, courier, merc contracts, that sort of thing. A killboard is not an in-game service as it has no effect on your in-game character.

The Q&A section doesn't mention "in-game services" but "services for in-game currency".
Basically, if you charge ISK, or if you accept cash donations, or if you use ad revenue to keep your site afloat, you HAVE to pay 99$/year.
That, or risk being sent a shutdown notice, and more importantly, risk getting your site/domain/subnet blocked from API access in case you don't comply (thus effectively shutting you down anyway).


Err..Am I just misunderstanding?
"Will I be able to charge real life currency for in game services?

No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services."
I might be, but im reading it as the only thing new is that they charge us 100$ a year for API programs....

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:27:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Gank'aho
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ervyn
I think by in-game services they mean ships, courier, merc contracts, that sort of thing. A killboard is not an in-game service as it has no effect on your in-game character.

The Q&A section doesn't mention "in-game services" but "services for in-game currency".
Basically, if you charge ISK, or if you accept cash donations, or if you use ad revenue to keep your site afloat, you HAVE to pay 99$/year.
That, or risk being sent a shutdown notice, and more importantly, risk getting your site/domain/subnet blocked from API access in case you don't comply (thus effectively shutting you down anyway).


Err..Am I just misunderstanding?
"Will I be able to charge real life currency for in game services?

No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services."
I might be, but im reading it as the only thing new is that they charge us 100$ a year for API programs....


Correct. And then they just spun that into a 'new feature!' and it seems a lotta people are eating it up, not realizing that its gonna shut down most eve services that we use today.

Lady Ayeipsia
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:29:00 - [11]
 

Um... that is they charge 100 for commercial uses.

If u charge nothing, then free license. For example, eveoffline seems to have no ad revenue, nor does it seek donations. It would get a free license.

If evenin charged nothing and sought no donations, it too could get a free license. If, however, itv's website generates ad revenue, it would need a comercial license.

Someone like me, who barely uses evemon and little else, no impact.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:30:00 - [12]
 

So even if stuff like EVEmon and EFT don't fall for the moneygrab and stay free, if we as users have the nerve to send some isk to the guys that make and maintain it, they have to pay the commercial fee?

Templar Dane
Amarr
Amarrian Retribution
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:32:00 - [13]
 

They're going after Chribba!

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:33:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 15/06/2011 18:35:24
Originally by: Gank'aho
Err..Am I just misunderstanding?
"Will I be able to charge real life currency for in game services?
No, the commercial license does not allow you to charge real life money for any in-game services."
I might be, but im reading it as the only thing new is that they charge us 100$ a year for API programs....

"Find and kill this pod pilot in EC-P8R" or "build me 100 Ravens" is an in-game service. You can't charge cash for that.
"Host me a killboard" or "let me login to your site from the IGB" is NOT an in-game service. You CAN charge cash for that.

Originally by: Silas Cooper
So even if stuff like EVEmon and EFT don't fall for the moneygrab and stay free, if we as users have the nerve to send some isk to the guys that make and maintain it, they have to pay the commercial fee?

Even if they just support their own site (on which they host the software) using ad revenue, they have to pay the license fee.

...

Like I said already in other places, the only big question is, would they allow us to pay the fee as, say, 5 or 6 PLEX + 5 $ (for "identification" purposes) instead of only being allowed to pay the 99$ in full cash ?

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:35:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Lady Ayeipsia
Um... that is they charge 100 for commercial uses.

If u charge nothing, then free license. For example, eveoffline seems to have no ad revenue, nor does it seek donations. It would get a free license.

If evenin charged nothing and sought no donations, it too could get a free license. If, however, itv's website generates ad revenue, it would need a comercial license.

Someone like me, who barely uses evemon and little else, no impact.

Well, eve-offline is run by chribba who i wouldnt be supprised if he gets excempt from the rule.

However, his other sites like eve forum search site, DOES have ads on it. So does his eve-agents.com and many other sites.

All the killboards who charge isk, 100 bucks a year!
Forum providers who accept isk? 100 bucks a year!

They say they're charging for their 'time' in order to make this all possible... but really they're charging US for OUR time, and they've really done nothing new but add a new billing section to their website in order to charge us for it.

And they require it as proof for something? keeping it to a minimum? you mean 100 bucks is the minimum you could charge for proof of the person's name? Doesnt their active subscription with their creditcard already do that? I dont see how charging 100 dollars instead of 15 dollars is going to proove who they are any more.

mkint
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:38:00 - [16]
 

The way I'm seeing it, all the free to use stuff that's out there now just requires the free license. The "help us by buying GTCs from this link" websites will now have to pay $100 a year, but can now put up even more advertising. Some stuff is kind of convoluted... like if you host a killboard that someone else made, who has to get the license? The comments thread for the dev blog is probably the better place for these issues, but the summary is to expect more for-pay products, and more products paid for by advertising. I really hope the developers of my favorite tools will be tasteful and smart about how they choose to deal with this.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:42:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 15/06/2011 18:49:39
its not really about them being smart... its about if they want to now charge isk for their product and pay ccp 100 bucks to do it...

the other situation would be eve-kill.net and battleclinic who charge isk for certain services... those sites will now be forced to pay 100 bucks a year in order to provide you with your personal killboards for isk, etc.

Which means that ether the owners of eve-kill.net are willing to fork over 100 dollars to continue doing what they're doing, or they shut down.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:44:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 15/06/2011 18:53:26
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Which means that ether the owners of eve-kill.net are willing to fork over 100 dollars to continue doing what they're doing, or they shut down.

I suspect the yearly hosting fees are significantly higher than 99/year anyway, so, meh, if they can afford the hosting fees, they can probably afford an extra hundred on top.
Probably.
Then again, they are now allowed to accept donations, and I doubt you CAN'T find people willing to donate a grand total of 99 per year amongst themselves. In fact, by putting up the donation button justified by CCP's charges, they might get MUCH MORE CASH EXTRA in total anyway.
Or maybe not.

Silas Cooper
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: mkint
I really hope the developers of my favorite tools will be tasteful and smart about how they choose to deal with this.


They can't.

If they have adds on their site > fee
if they accept/get isk gift from players that are thankful for the service they provide > fee

In other words; the only things that work are either very small/useless crap that no one is interested in so it won't need a lot of bandwidth to run the site, and people won't like the product enough to to donate a bit of isk to the makers. OR sites&products that go big and become a true business with actual income and expenses.

The stuff in the middle, the cool things people don't really want to make a business out of but put their time and effort into and just want their bandwidth covered a bit by a few adds here and there, and accept isk donating from happy users.... those are the ones that get ****ed over, and have to pay ~100buks.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:53:00 - [20]
 

I can only repeat myself...

Ad revenue and ISK payments should really, really NOT require a 99$/year license.
Everything else, sure, why not.
But not those two.

Mr M
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:54:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Akita T
and I doubt you CAN'T find people willing to donate a grand total of 99 per year amongst themselves. In fact, by putting up the donation button justified by CCP's charges, they might get MUCH MORE CASH EXTRA in total anyway.

Eve Tribune has been around for six years and I've gotten $0.00 in donations. But because I accept donations in ISK and real money I will have to pay CCP $99. Not sure about the other news sites out the but for me it's not worth it.

Terminal Insanity
Minmatar
Convex Enterprises
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:55:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Terminal Insanity on 15/06/2011 19:10:47
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 15/06/2011 18:46:19
Originally by: Terminal Insanity
Which means that ether the owners of eve-kill.net are willing to fork over 100 dollars to continue doing what they're doing, or they shut down.

I suspect the yearly hosting fees are significantly higher than 99/year anyway, so, meh, if they can afford the hosting fees, they can probably afford an extra hundred on top.
Probably.
Then again, they are now allowed to accept donations, and I doubt you CAN'T find people willing to donate a grand total of 99 per year amongst themselves. In fact, by putting up the donation button justified by CCP's charges, they might get MUCH MORE CASH EXTRA in total anyway.


so because it costs a lot already to run a popular website, they shouldnt mind if ccp tacks on an extra 100 dollars to that bill? **** that. Sorry but what you're seeing is the beginning of the end of eve's open and flourishing community

I mean, i just dont see how someone can even defend this. Its something that we've legally been allowed to do since the invention of killmails.... and now suddenly we're being charged 100 dollars a year to continue.

Think of all the days of coding time... all the money people poured into their projects

And thats all going to be scrapped if they're unable to pay 100 dollars to ccp now.

It just angers me to see CCP charging these people money for their services. Services that have been fundemental in the building of eve's community. Its like being pulled up from a cliff by someone and then shooting your rescuer in the back. These people were a major part of eve's success, and now they're being charged for it.

Valemora
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:58:00 - [23]
 

My issue with this is that it seems as though developers are either A. Going to stay free, in which case this is stupid, and a waste of resources or B. Going to charge more because CCP had to pay a guy or two to write the code for this, this will not likely work as many won't pay for it, which isn't needed anyway. From what I can tell they are "there to partially cover expenses from this initiative".
Not to missquote I don't really get the point of this "we need to charge a fee so that we get proper non-spoofable information about the applicant" WTF does that have to do with anything? am I missing something?

CCP is not using this money to help developers either "We will continue to provide technical assistance via the Technology Lab forum and IRC channel, but CCP does not offer formal technical support to developers or warrant the API in any way. It's provided as is."

I don't wanna scream money grab, but I see this feature as something that serves no other purpose. Yea some people will pay for it, but I couldn't see it bringing in much. I know if Evemon cost real money to use it would die in a fire...Isk costs would kill it too, but not as terrible. Grant it I will admit that eve-mon is likely unaffected because they are big, but the smaller dev's are not as lucky.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:58:00 - [24]
 

I'm not saying it's a good move, just that I can see it working even like that.
Personally, I would exempt ISK donations and ad revenue from the "commercial" fee and let them use the "non-commercial" (free) one.
Or, at least, have them pay a "reduced amount" fee, something like 5$.

Cave Lord
Posted - 2011.06.15 20:13:00 - [25]
 

If what is being said here is true, I'm closing all of my accounts. This is no longer the company I fell in love with 5 years ago.

Simple as that.

I encourage others to do the same since, you know, why pay a company so you can be nickled-and-dimed to death (microtransactions of ANY TYPE) not just by the company, but from OTHER customers as well?


 

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