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Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:29:00 - [241]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 15/06/2011 19:25:34
I would urge CCP to amend or clarify their policy to state the following rules:

1: If you make any real-world (dollars, euros, whatever) profit (this means: after covering your costs) off your service/app/website, you need a commercial licence.

2: If you do not make any real world profit off your service/app/website, you can use the non-commercial licence.

This will allow people to monetize their apps for profit, but not hurt those who just provide a service for their corp or for eve, at their own expense (server costs, etc).


Sorry that is almost equally stupid. Like CCP wants to chase developers and audit their nickels and dimes...

As said before, one time low cost fee is the only way out of this mess.

Adrie Atticus
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:29:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: Mac Aoidh
Originally by: Lutz Major
You should be charged for the countless hours that 3rd party developers used to write documentations about your precious API! Sad


I don't think you can put a price on what developers like Chribba have done for the game.


Yes you can, it's about $35 per manhour spent on designing, bringing up and maintaining the services. I guess the total is hanging at 2-4 years...

Niraia
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:29:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 15/06/2011 19:24:44
I would urge CCP to amend or clarify their policy to state the following rules:

1: If you make any real-world (dollars, euros, whatever) profit (this means: after covering your costs) off your service/app/website, you need a commercial licence.

2: If you do not make any real world profit off your service/app/website, you can use the non-commercial service.

This will allow people to monetize their apps for profit, but not hurt those who just provide a service for their corp or for eve, at their own expense (server costs, etc).


Someone would have to check up on that, at a cost greater than a one-off $99 per license. Further, I could claim that the cost of my time to develop the software is worth a million dollars, pay myself everything it earned, and never consider any of it profit.

Ovidia Rhianon
Caldari
Mining and Industrial Services
The Irukandji
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:29:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



I'm fairly new to the game and I am already starting to really dislike you CCP.

Kerrisone
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:30:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Dierdra Vaal
Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 15/06/2011 19:25:34
I would urge CCP to amend or clarify their policy to state the following rules:

1: If you make any real-world (dollars, euros, whatever) profit (this means: after covering your costs) off your service/app/website, you need a commercial licence.

2: If you do not make any real world profit off your service/app/website, you can use the non-commercial licence.

This will allow people to monetize their apps for profit, but not hurt those who just provide a service for their corp or for eve, at their own expense (server costs, etc).


No way to know who makes profit or doesn't.

Better way would be a much cheaper charge ONCE or if needed every year but still much less like $5-20 max. Along with some of the suggestions on letting people accept optional donations or use ads to pay for hosting/etc.

Direct selling of a service or app for REAL money should need the commercial license. Simply accepting the good will of players for a free product/service is BS. ISK doesn't count as 'getting paid' unless CCP wants to embrace RMT/laundering.

Malcore Trisus
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:30:00 - [246]
 

From the same people who brought you banning draft in the alliance tournament, now comes "Pay CCP for your eve related website"

I cannot express how dumbfounding this whole devblog is. I mean, I understand that none of you actually play the game, but I don't understand why you want to make sure that no one else does either.

Lord Googoo
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:30:00 - [247]
 

Whoever was the genius behind this idea needs to be fired ASAP and send their resume to Apple instead. They obviously have no place at CCP.

Dez Affinity
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:30:00 - [248]
 

I got 99 dollars but CCP ain't getting one.

Flamewave
Crimson Moon Society
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:31:00 - [249]
 

Originally by: Mac Aoidh
Originally by: Lutz Major
You should be charged for the countless hours that 3rd party developers used to write documentations about your precious API! Sad


I don't think you can put a price on what developers like Chribba have done for the game.

They should be paying Chribba tbfh, not the other way around. Neutral

CCP Manifest


C C P
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:31:00 - [250]
 

Clarification post will be coming shortly. Just wanted to let ya'll know we know this thread needs it.




Levarr Burton
B0rthole
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:32:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Kersh Marelor
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar
You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats


QFT.


This is literally the worst idea I've heard CCP publicly disclose. And that is saying quite a bit. You are trying to make a cheap buck off of people who, at no cost to you, improve the experience of dealing with your game. You also ignore all the other monetary costs that the people hosting those sites have to pay already, and ignore the fact that very few external sites are run for profit.

If CCP goes ahead with this change, I honestly hope all the external sites (even the ones I use on a daily basis) shut down, rather than coughing up yet more cash.

Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:32:00 - [252]
 

Originally by: woddel
Originally by: Joe SMASH
As a show of force that most 3rd party devs do NOT like this rule. I think we should figure out a day where all Eve Online 3rd party sites get taken offline. This will show the community what it will be like if CCP gets this in place. For those 24 hours, the Eve community (voted best in the MMO world!) goes quiet and CCP will (hopefully) begin to see their many mistakes with this new set of rules.


i'm in with www.eve-commander.com and agents.eve-commander.com...


Pass on the word to other major website owners. I do not run one myself, but a 24h blackout would def get your point across. Especially if it was on a high TQ population day. (Holiday, weekend, etc) Would be great to get Chribba and Wollari on board, but I understand yanking a site for even 24h might be hard (if not impossible) for them.

Optional Patch
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:32:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Clarification post will be coming shortly. Just wanted to let ya'll know we know this thread needs it.





More than simply a clarification is needed.

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:33:00 - [254]
 

Calling it now - CCP have done a microsoft.

CCP have watched people developing tools for free all this time, now they'll start charging for a license. If the 3rd parties pay and carry on, good news for CCP, money for nothing. If they stop developing, CCP now knows what they need to do (especially since most projects are open source), and will release their own CCPEVEMON or CCPEFT and charge for the usage.

Well played, ***gots.


Anowene Amatarsu
Caldari
m3 WeaponSmiths
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:34:00 - [255]
 

Edited by: Anowene Amatarsu on 15/06/2011 19:34:58
.

GKO
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:34:00 - [256]
 

Originally by: Malcore Trisus
From the same people who brought you banning draft in the alliance tournament, now comes "Pay CCP for your eve related website"

I cannot express how dumbfounding this whole devblog is. I mean, I understand that none of you actually play the game, but I don't understand why you want to make sure that no one else does either.


+1 :D It is like a cuddly bear who tries different things and fails horribly. Each and every time.

Gank'aho
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:34:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Gank''aho on 15/06/2011 19:34:32
Originally by: Optional Patch
Originally by: CCP Manifest
Clarification post will be coming shortly. Just wanted to let ya'll know we know this thread needs it.





More than simply a clarification is needed.


Common Sense coming SOON*TM

Lartaris
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 - [258]
 

Quote:
Will website ads require a commercial license?

Yes, for ad-supported websites you will require a commercial license.


I'm confused at this, if i have an Eve Online affiliate program account, do i still need a commercial license?

Durin Sarga
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 - [259]
 

Forget just 3rd party developers going on strike. That's too small of a scope I think.

I say we all stock up our POSs, maximize our learning queues, and take a 20-day haiatus from EVE.

Why?

Because in the last 3-months (aside from yesterday's moment of brilliance) CCP has shown that they do not understand what makes EVE, EVE. Micro-transactions? Incarna instead of iteration? DUST514 before EVE? Ships for $$? and now the mother of all...

Charging for a fan's labor of love to the EVE community???!!!

There's an old saying CCP,"When mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!" In EVE this saying gets modified as follows:

"If Chribba ain't happy, ain't nobody happy"

And guess what? Chribba ain't happy. End of story.

Zachstar
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:36:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Clarification post will be coming shortly. Just wanted to let ya'll know we know this thread needs it.






Clarification isn't going to do it. You said POINT BLANK that ad and donation supported websites will require a paid license. What is needed is an apology from CCP marketing and financial and a promise to ask the community before making changes like this.

We would have told you point blank that we do not want Ad and donation supported sites to have to pay a fee ONLY those that point blank require a fee or isk to use.

Liberty Eternal
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:37:00 - [261]
 

Why all the fuss? It does say in the press release that non-commercial sites get a free license.

CCP Atlas

Posted - 2011.06.15 19:37:00 - [262]
 

So, what's going on in my feedback thre... HOLY CRAP, 9 pages of hate! ShockedShockedShocked

Anyway, thank you all for your input so far. Based on your comments, I feel I should step in to clarify a few things and address some concerns.

1) The blog represents the first draft of what our bizdev department is thinking of in terms of the license agreement. We published it to get feedback from you guys. This is not the final word on the matter and we want to build this service up with you so that it's fair and empowers you to build these applications and services which better the game.

2) Regarding this clause:
Q: Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?
A: Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


I've spoken to Biz Dev and this is something that might be revised, possibly to exclude ISK payments. I'll let you know as soon as I know more.

3) This project is not about CCP making money. Whether we charge $100 or $50 or $10 for a commercial license won't make a big difference to our balance sheet. $99 is the lowest that we estimated that we could reasonably go and still justify the cost of the service. If this is too high for app developers, this is something that could possibly be revisited.

4) Nothing is set in stone. We're willing to reconsider anything you deem unfair about the program. Donation and ad supported ventures is a tricky thing to allow without any sort of a commercial license though and that's a legal slippery slope. Whether that license needs to be $99 per year is something we might reconsider.

Please help us by continuing to give constructive feedback into how you want this service to be since our motives are really to empower 3rd party development and not to try to squeeze money out of starving programmers.

Our Biz Dev department will give us some more answers and clarify ambiguity. Rest assured this will change to suit your needs and our aim is to make you want to develop software and services for EVE and not to throw obstacles in your way.

Phoenus
Caldari
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:37:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Clarification post will be coming shortly. Just wanted to let ya'll know we know this thread needs it.




Here comes the backpeddaling.

Let me guess, it was a 'misinterpretation' - like the Microtransaction mistake yesterday?

Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:38:00 - [264]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 16/06/2011 14:41:55
Content deleted due to http://tinyurl.com/closingforum

GKO
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:38:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: CCP Manifest
Clarification post will be coming shortly. Just wanted to let ya'll know we know this thread needs it.



Yeah, finish some devblogs regarding failing captains quarters first. This thread will wait until tomorrow.

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:39:00 - [266]
 

Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 15/06/2011 20:18:58
A few questions.

- Our alliance website offers an "authentication" feature which uses the API. It's meant to be used only by alliance members and allies, but of course anyone can enter their API details. Do I need a "free license" for this?

- We have a forum thread which links to Paypal addresses for those who want to help cover the hosting fees for the website and the ventrilo. As the forum uses API authentication, do I need a commercial license for this?

- We have a windows application which is downloadable only by alliance members, but could of course in theory be used by everyone. Do I need a "free license" for this?

- If we use Shattered Crystal's support program that gives us money for GTCs we buy, do I need a commercial license for this?


I'd be very, very careful with what you are doing there. EVE is a very unique game in what it offers to all the programming geeks out there. While $8.25 a month is not a lot of money, it is enough money to dissuade anyone who thought he'd write something that sounded fun and just wanted some ISK donations for their effort.

If you just drop ISK donations from the list that requires the commercial license, you'd come a long way towards the geeks who make your game so much better than it is already. And you really should think hard about the "donate" thing (especially if you answered "yes" to my second question above).

Valemora
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:40:00 - [267]
 

Edited by: Valemora on 15/06/2011 19:40:52

Originally by: CCP Atlas


2) Regarding this clause:
Q: Will services for in-game currency require a commercial license?
A: Yes, if you require any sort of payment for your services you will need a commercial license.


I've spoken to Biz Dev and this is something that might be revised, possibly to exclude ISK payments. I'll let you know as soon as I know more.


This would Quench some of the rage, if it excluded isk, however if putting Ad's on a website count, its still not going to work.

salty Milk
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:41:00 - [268]
 

What do you think people will pay for that isn't free already?

oh wait... Dust.... Incarna....

I think I understand now....

Aquana Abyss
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:41:00 - [269]
 

Whats with the great big money grab CCP?


Lederstrumpf
Posted - 2011.06.15 19:41:00 - [270]
 

Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 16/06/2011 14:41:29
Content deleted due to http://tinyurl.com/closingforum


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