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Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:18:00 - [121]
 

Ridiculous, some devs ask for a way to legally charge money directly because the current system is not enough to cover expenses and you punish everyone else by imposing a fee on top of the already insufficient donation and ad system.

It is good that you offer new alternatives, it is stupid that you want to make the current ones worst/inviable. Please use the brain and be rational.

Shellac Brookdale
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:19:00 - [122]
 

Having your hosting costs covered by running ads is already totaly legal today. That means for those sites they'll have to generate $100 extra to get where they are now.

Tools supported through in-game ISK donations/subscriptions have also been perfectly legal so far. That may get the developer some plex to cover subscription costs for his accounts. Now he has to pay $100 extra if he won't be willing to get involved in RMT. And guess what will happen.

So how exactly is this good news? Are we all supposed to create apps that could be market through app store?

Diotima Saraki
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:19:00 - [123]
 

Maybe CCP is just tired of 3rd party websites and applications show-casing the deficiencies of the EVE client?

Dictator IV
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:20:00 - [124]
 

I never login to the forums to complain, so hopefully my voice will carry more weight than it would if I trolled the forums daily.

It is highly unethical to charge these developers who spend day/weeks of their free time making EVE a better community. I am willing to bet that most of them have never even had the desire to charge for their product, yet now you are forcing them to.

If anything, this new program should be a registrar of competent 3rd party programmers that CCP HIRES to keep all the great apps alive that they either don't have the time to make or the ability. If CCP paid the good 3rd party devs $99 a year (still a pittance) it would help with their webhosting, and raise the community as a whole!

Korvin
Gallente
Shadow Kingdom
Best Alliance
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:21:00 - [125]
 

Start to charge 99$ from YouTube! They host those EVE videos and earn money with AD!
Facebook next!
Way to go!

Trinity Faetal
Gallente
Little Garden
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:21:00 - [126]
 

i was waiting for ccp to come up with a brilliant idea that would finally push me over the edge to quit this game forever.

even though this doesn't affect me the slightest, it's still good to see ccp has finally learned to listen to the people that write their paychecks.

Vladimir Ilych
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:21:00 - [127]
 

Okay so I read the last four pages quickly and maybe five or six posts agree with the proposals. The rest say this is a total cluster*** and an insult, more or less.

MT and now this have made me really sad about where Eve is going. CCP have you been bought by some investment vehicle or something? I really don't know if I want to pay my next set of subs after this.

Just increase the subs in line with inflation, hell adjust it for eight years if you want. I would be happy to pay it.

Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:22:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.


Aye

Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:23:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Zagdul
I have a donate button on my site as my servers cost my alliance over 300+ dollars a month to run.

So now I have to add an additional $99 a year to this cost?

bah.

You suck.


Let's say donations are just to cover DNS and hosting, and that we do not accept donations for any services provided. Done.

People don't need to freak out about this...a 1-page devblog hardly has the legal language a proper software license requires.

Kate Yeats
Caldari
Drone Reprogramming Center
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:23:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.


And again. I'll also be shutting down all the support tooling I run if this goes live as is.

This is a completely ridiculous stance to take given the current position. A licence for charging RL currency makes sense but everyone else using 'Eve IP' (that include blogs that mention ship names, images?) requiring a free licence. Best of all is the 'hide it behind a password' loop hole.

Honestly, who the hell wrote these guidelines? They want shooting. Go away, rethink this thing and recognise that fan sites and 3rd party tooling IMPROVE your game, provide free promotion and good will and encourage the community spirit you seem to be so proud of.

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:25:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats





Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:25:00 - [132]
 

Just some thought occured to me:

What if SOMEONE ELSE advertises your website and earns money due to this? Do you still need to pay the $99 even if your website is free and only the other one earns money from it?

Akira Zendragon
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:26:00 - [133]
 

Quote:
CCP does not offer formal technical support to developers or warrant the API in any way. It's provided as is.


Didn't notice this the first time around... My view was just upgraded to highway robbery.

So lemme get this right... If, hypothetically speaking, I wanted to make a web-app of some sort and make it available to the community while accepting donations I'd have to:

a) Spend time to develop and maintain hypothetical web-app
b) Pay for the hosting costs
c) Not be able to accept paypal donations to offset that cost
d) Pay $99/yr to use an unsupported service with no warranties or SLA?
or is it
d) Pay $99/yr for the privilege of accepting ISK donations for my work?

I make a living developing software. Paying $99/yr to work plus x$/mo on hosting to help the community and get some ISK donations does not compute. I'd sooner spend $99/yr on GTCs -> PLEX.

It would work fine if I wanted to develop a mobile or desktop app and sell it, but this is broken beyond repair for most other scenarios. Go back to the drawing board and start again...


Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:26:00 - [134]
 

The best idea yet on this board would be to charge ISK for the service. It would allow identify verification from CCP's point of view, and would serve the double-side of acting as a small sink.

lushn
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:26:00 - [135]
 





Year 2015. CCP's greedyness turns to effort to take every cents from eve related activities.

Forums are moneterized. Now replyong topic is $0.25 or 0.20eu. Starting New topic $0.50 or 0.40eu.

If eveonline on you facebook then you have to pay $9 annual fee.

All eve fan site and eve related sites have to pay a fee to CCP

Using stargates? still free but there is a rumor that every jumps will be 10cents.

Circumstantial Evidence
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:27:00 - [136]
 

"ad-supported ventures" would be a violation of your own Terms. Click-through ads are a way of generating "real life currency."

The amount would depending on site popularity: The proposed $100 license fee captures some (if you're battleclinic) - or all - of that revenue.

** ISK donations are optional, voluntary acts. Demanding $100 for apps or services that state "donations gratefully accepted" is ridiculous.

** PLEX is a game object for which CCP has already received payment. I don't understand why this should not be a valid form of payment for apps or services.

cerbus
Minor Annoyance...
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:28:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Kate Yeats
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.

stuff


tree quoting in protest of latest ccp troll

Dierdra Vaal
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:28:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 15/06/2011 18:39:24
I think it is a big mistake to also force people who provide an ingame service, for ingame currency, to pay a 100 bucks a year for a licence to do so. For people who actually make money I could totally understand, but people who only make imaginary space bucks, requiring a commercial licence will simply discourage them from providing that service. This is even more ridiculous when it comes to donations - which is something you don't even have any control over (as they are volunteer gifts, not mandatory fees).

Think on this CCP: Under your current rules, Eve University would have to pay 99 dollars a year on top of their server costs (which I know are significant) because they accept donations from the community and have an external facing website that uses the Eve IP. That's a great way to reward a volunteer organisation who makes up for your woefully lacking New Player Experience and gets you hundreds (if not more) subscribers a year.

So CCP, how many developers you think will cease their ingame activities when they need to pay your 100 bucks on top of whatever other costs they may have (hosting, etc) for a purely in-game service?

Andrea Griffin
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:28:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats
Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.
This really ****es me off.

I'm currently working on my own killboard which I plan to release as open source software. It's going to be pretty cool when it's done, it has features the other KBs don't, and I think that people will like it.

Adding a line to the README file that says, "Hey, this is free, but if you'd like to send some ISK as a thank-you that would be great!" is going to cost me $99?

This isn't going to affect my decision to create the software and offer it for free but it sure feels like a slap in the face.

There's a lot of applications and services that will be affected by this, and I guarantee that a majority of developers will do one of two things:

A) Cease development.
B) Ignore the licensing.

In case A), the Eve Community misses out. In case B), CCP gets to go after developers of popular apps and look like total jerks.

We lose, CCP loses.

Red Frog now must pay $99 a year because they have a route calculator on their website. EFT must pay $99 a year because the author kindly asks for donations. BattleClinic must pay $99 a year because they host a giant killboard and have some Google ads.

This is a really low blow guys. I'm extremely disappointed. I don't see the point from your perspective and for the Eve community I don't see a single benefit. Utter stupidity. I would use stronger language but it won't accomplish anything.

Maybe I won't finish my board. I'm feeling pretty bitter now. CCP Troll, Best Troll.

Petrus Blackshell
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:28:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



+1

Master Akira
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:29:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: cerbus
Originally by: Kate Yeats
Originally by: Sarina Berghil
Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



Needs quoting for clarity so even CCP gets it.

stuff


tree quoting in protest of latest ccp troll



It's amazing how CCP can turn something that makes sense into a terrible fail thing.

Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari
Clan Shadow Wolf
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:30:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Nirnaeth Ornoediad on 15/06/2011 18:31:31
The challenge here for CCP is that they've produced a very traditional software license scheme. The problem is that in world of freeware 3rd party extensions coupled with the bonds of community (in the form of random ISK donations), that model doesn't work.

Good point about Red Frog, btw.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:31:00 - [143]
 

Originally by: Kronus Heilgar

You are charging people who work for free to make your game better you asshats



bump

the only greedy reason I can imagine: CCP plans to kill competition to implement the stuff in the incarna-holodeck.

Morphisat
Hidden Agenda
Deep Space Engineering
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:31:00 - [144]
 

Looks like CCP is starting to run low on cash and now start milking Eve for everything it has, no matter the consequences !

EI Digin
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:32:00 - [145]
 

A terrible idea.

Che Geo
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:32:00 - [146]
 

I'm all for allowing people who WANT to charge $0.99 at the app-store for some EVE related APP.

What is the maggot attached to the sphincter of the Hyena is, CCP Charging EVERYONE $99 for ANY app created, even if you want to give it away for free. Now you have no choice; you HAVE to sell it $0.99 just to cover the CCP Invoice!

The bacteria attached to that maggot’s sphincter are CCP charging $99 for services... Just what the hell are they thinking.

Whoever came up with that idea needs to be kicked in the sack once by ever character created in EVE.

Amber Villaneous
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:32:00 - [147]
 

The slippery slope just got steeper. Fugg You CCP. Reason #67(made up number) why my 5 subs will not be renewed when they expire, CYA bubye.

Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:34:00 - [148]
 

Password loophole - Place all 3rd party stuff behind a password and accidentally make the password known to everyone? If CCP say "hey this isn't a corp/private website" then just claim an unofficial coalition (since ccp hasn't coded for coalitions in game).


Florestan Bronstein
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:34:00 - [149]
 

Quote:
@swearte
Swearte Widfarend

#tweetfleet I love @EveOnline they try to make a balanced, reasonable (seems so) approach to monetizing 3PP, and whiners explode. #moartears

Retweeted by HilmarVeigar


Linkage

at least Hilmar is having fun...

Ibn Faldan
Posted - 2011.06.15 18:35:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Ibn Faldan on 15/06/2011 18:37:08
Edited by: Ibn Faldan on 15/06/2011 18:35:31
I'm curious, who exactly gets left out in the licensing approach? There is a non-commercial AND a commercial license. And its clear that there are many pragmatic people on here that truly lack an understanding of economics. Eve didn't even HAVE to provide an API, did they? Now they want to make some money back on their time spent up front and ongoing on this, and only for those looking to commercialize their works - exactly how does that put YOU out directly? I want to hear some real stories from real people who will really be left out in the cold by this, not those who have a philosophical disagreement with this.

Fire away.


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